Collegian article re: alleged Starocci misconduct

[pish69]

My 2 cents..

All I really care about is Cael or staff not being implicated in anything. With this whole story the only thing they'd be in trouble for is if they new of SA allegations against Carter and did nothing with that info.

All the other stuff..meh..I can care less about the hazing..happens everywhere in every sport. The theft? It was investigated and nothing came from it..not much more to say about it.

From the article it doesn't say anything about Cael or staff knowing about any SA.

As far as Carter goes..he's a killer on the mat and no choir boy. Hazing? yeah I can see that, whatever as far as I'm concerned.. Sexual Assault? If found guilty, I'll change my stance on Carter..if not..bad on Beau and wife trashing someone with those serious allegations.

SA is serious..that being said..I had my own situation back in college..

Here's what went down..I played football, was captain as a junior and senior in D3 school. My junior year, hooked up with a freshman after a party(18 yrs old). Had a great night..she spent night. In morning, she wakes up and tells me I better not have just "used her" and blab to everyone. I told her I'd definetly be calling her again and would like to see where it goes. I call her a couple days later and no answer. Next day, no answer. Finally I ask by buddies girlfreind (happens to be the girl's roomate), where she's been and I've been trying to reach her. She proceeds to slap me in the face and says, "how dare you ask about her after you raped her!" I lost my shit. Said "what the hell are you talking about, we hooked up, she spent night and agreed to touch base again so we can hang out more." The girl says that's not what she told me. I demanded to hear this from the girl I hooked up with. Me, my roomate and his girl go to the dorm. The girl opens door, see's me and the others and starts crying. I say, "why the hell would you say I raped you? We had a great night?" She ends up breaking down in tears..apologizes to me and her roomate (the one that slapped me). She said it was the first time she ever hooked up like that on a first night and as a freshman, didn't want to be labled as a slut, so told her roomate she was raped." I was floored..I started saying something, but I couldn't even get a word in as her roomate (who was really pissed for being lied to and ended up slapping me over) ripped into her. Explained that is such an ugly accusation to just throw around and she should be ashamed of herself for doing such a thing. Long story short..she apologized, her roomate ended up finding a new roomate next semester, and nothing further came of this. Could have ended up much differently if this girl stuck to her story and made a thing out of it. Even though I was 100% innocent, would have dragged me thru the mud until all facts came out.

I know this is a long read..but just saying..one accusation could destroy a person and they better have proof. If so, I have no sympathy for Carter. If not and it's just something one of his hook ups make up after the fact for one reason or another..I have no sympathy for them. Be careful to judge until the facts play out..

 

[diggerpup]

Just adding this here without additional comment since this thread is filling rapidly w/ a bunch of boomers + fanboys who assume they have all the answers:

---------------------------------------------------------------

AI Overview

Based on research and statistics,
approximately 90% of sexual assaults on college campuses go unreported. This underreporting is a significant concern that impacts the reliability of data and support for survivors.
Several factors contribute to this high rate of underreporting, including:

• Fear of retaliation: Victims may worry about repercussions from the perpetrator.
• Belief that reporting is ineffective: Some survivors doubt that the police or university will provide adequate assistance.
• Shame and stigma: The act of sexual assault can be deeply personal and traumatic, leading victims to fear judgment or blame.
• Lack of trust in authorities: Victims may distrust the justice system or university administration.
• Inadequate institutional response: Universities may not have sufficient resources, policies, or procedures to address sexual assault effectively.

The underreporting of sexual assaults on college campuses is a serious issue that highlights the need for continued efforts to support survivors and ensure that institutions respond appropriately to these incidents.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

I say all of this with a background of 32 years in LE. To put it more bluntly, the "truth" can range from 100% in a victim's favor to 100% in a suspect's favor, with oceans of gray in between. I also have no idea if drugs and/or alcohol may have been involved. That would muddy the waters even more so.

Even with everything I said above, my heart goes out to the girls detailed in the article.

If (and I have no idea what the truth is-nor do you-but you seem to understand the range of possibilities and then ignore it) is one of those instances where the truth is in the suspects favor-why the obligatory sympathy for the accuser.

Given that I doubt young men are any less interested in sex now than when when I in my early 20's, let's posit a possibility:

He invites her over for a "movie". They both are interested in a sexual encounter. He imagines it as a one-nighter, she imagines it was the beginning of an exclusive relationship. She doesn't get the follow up call for a date, flowers or whatever kids do now.

She's disappointed. Soon "He used me", becomes "no wait "he raped me". I know this is heresy these days, but just because you feel something, doesn't mean it's objectively factual or that it should be affirmed by society at large.

The truth in the hypothetical is that they both used each other in a meaningless tryst and just because she "feels" traumatized doesn't require an obligatory expression of misplaced compassion.

Honestly, if you spent 32 years in LE and don't understand that not all accusations are valid, as the recipient of a completely fabricated, nine page, handwritten with such rage the paper was embossed workplace sexual harassment complaint that took three months to be found without evidence, that's sad.

The reality is we don't have any check on false accusations and it's rewarded.

 

[amattaro]

Askren probably gonna think he also had a brain transplant when he wakes up and finds out Kyle Snyder not the most muffed up story coming out of State College this year.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

My 2 cents..

All I really care about is Cael or staff not being implicated in anything. With this whole story the only thing they'd be in trouble for is if they new of SA allegations against Carter and did nothing with that info.

All the other stuff..meh..I can care less about the hazing..happens everywhere in every sport. The theft? It was investigated and nothing came from it..not much more to say about it.

From the article it doesn't say anything about Cael or staff knowing about any SA.

As far as Carter goes..he's a killer on the mat and no choir boy. Hazing? yeah I can see that, whatever as far as I'm concerned.. Sexual Assault? If found guilty, I'll change my stance on Carter..if not..bad on Beau and wife trashing someone with those serious allegations.

SA is serious..that being said..I had my own situation back in college..

Here's what went down..I played football, was captain as a junior and senior in D3 school. My junior year, hooked up with a freshman after a party(18 yrs old). Had a great night..she spent night. In morning, she wakes up and tells me I better not have just "used her" and blab to everyone. I told her I'd definetly be calling her again and would like to see where it goes. I call her a couple days later and no answer. Next day, no answer. Finally I ask by buddies girlfreind (happens to be the girl's roomate), where she's been and I've been trying to reach her. She proceeds to slap me in the face and says, "how dare you ask about her after you raped her!" I lost my shit. Said "what the hell are you talking about, we hooked up, she spent night and agreed to touch base again so we can hang out more." The girl says that's not what she told me. I demanded to hear this from the girl I hooked up with. Me, my roomate and his girl go to the dorm. The girl opens door, see's me and the others and starts crying. I say, "why the hell would you say I raped you? We had a great night?" She ends up breaking down in tears..apologizes to me and her roomate (the one that slapped me). She said it was the first time she ever hooked up like that on a first night and as a freshman, didn't want to be labled as a slut, so told her roomate she was raped." I was floored..I started saying something, but I couldn't even get a word in as her roomate (who was really pissed for being lied to and ended up slapping me over) ripped into her. Explained that is such an ugly accusation to just throw around and she should be ashamed of herself for doing such a thing. Long story short..she apologized, her roomate ended up finding a new roomate next semester, and nothing further came of this. Could have ended up much differently if this girl stuck to her story and made a thing out of it. Even though I was 100% innocent, would have dragged me thru the mud until all facts came out.

I know this is a long read..but just saying..one accusation could destroy a person and they better have proof. If so, I have no sympathy for Carter. If not and it's just something one of his hook ups make up after the fact for one reason or another..I have no sympathy for them. Be careful to judge until the facts play out..

Just adding this here without additional comment since this thread is filling rapidly w/ a bunch of boomers + fanboys who assume they have all the answers:

---------------------------------------------------------------

AI Overview

Based on research and statistics,
approximately 90% of sexual assaults on college campuses go unreported. This underreporting is a significant concern that impacts the reliability of data and support for survivors.
Several factors contribute to this high rate of underreporting, including:

• Fear of retaliation: Victims may worry about repercussions from the perpetrator.
• Belief that reporting is ineffective: Some survivors doubt that the police or university will provide adequate assistance.
• Shame and stigma: The act of sexual assault can be deeply personal and traumatic, leading victims to fear judgment or blame.
• Lack of trust in authorities: Victims may distrust the justice system or university administration.
• Inadequate institutional response: Universities may not have sufficient resources, policies, or procedures to address sexual assault effectively.

The underreporting of sexual assaults on college campuses is a serious issue that highlights the need for continued efforts to support survivors and ensure that institutions respond appropriately to these incidents.

Speaking of assuming having all the answers; is this what your generation does, ask AI and parrot it?

 

[donboy6499]

A

Vetting as a journalist is not the same as finding evidence for a crime. The author says that these are allegations and states what the women say happened. If he had proof they could plausibly make those claims, that would be enough to come out with the article. You are acting as if the journalistic standard for REPORTING ALLEGATIONS (not making the allegations) is the same as what would be expected of Police.

I’m treating a very seriously reported allegation that has the right to destroy the accused.

The reason we shouldn’t separate the reporting standard here from the police standard is because there is an implication that a crime was reported up and ignored.

If the article was just “Carter Starocci has SA victims here’s some texts”, it allows freedom to believe or not. Once it’s implied another ignored mandatory reporting laws (and I work in a field where I have to be aware of these at all times), you need a higher preponderance of evidence that in fact it was a crime and it was reported and it was ignored. It’s a big deal and if genesis is “here are some texts”, then the whole thing falls apart.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Lol you dont think US courts are corrupt?

for sure. Wherever $$ or power... look at our political system. Does one buy out make a judge corrupt? The one thing that just popped in mind is the impact of the student athlete now being a rich student athlete. Of course that isn't all of them, but for some it certainly puts them in a spotlight so their actions are highlighted. On the other hand, also makes them a target. I'm not stating this as an opinion on this subject. Thinking of the classes and speeches given to high paid drafted rookies (normally post college) now need to start being given to incoming college freshman? Apologize for changing subject...

 

[pish69]

Speaking of assuming having all the answers; is this what your generation does, ask AI and parrot it?

? You had my post quoted in your response. Assuming a mistake as I didn't use AI for anything

 

[diggerpup]

Speaking of assuming having all the answers; is this what your generation does, ask AI and parrot it?

Well you're obviously the national expert in these matters.

Why don't we just lock the thread, start a screenshare presentation & you can present your expertise re: sexual assault on college campuses to all of us Simpletons?

Re: AI usage - it's a datapoint.
Google Gemini searches billions of articles + datapoints & provides a close representation of the query asked.

I'm a 48 yrs old professional w/ more empathy than your redneck boomer ass.
You come across as someone who slapped around some hoes back in your prime.

 

[Random4598375]

My thoughts on Beau are in the second to last post in the locked thread:

Beau's post & related news

Don't talk to me about being bright when you have such poor reading comprehension. Notice the 's' in "White Knights"? That means it's plural. And that means I wasn't talking to you alone, but to the broader group. Many in this forum have expressed sentiments like those I criticized. Also a...

pennstate.forums.rivals.com

Beau makes a good witness, and I believe him (and by extension his wife). At the same time, I can't judge Starocci on the SA charges until they've been vetted in a more official venue (i.e. LE investigation). I can't judge Cael on the SA charges unless he knew and killed it instead of reporting it (which was not reported in the article, but if that's the case in the wake of the Sandusky/Paterno affair, he absolutely should be fired immediately). We'll just have to wait and see on that, but I do believe that Beau and Syd were told what they relayed to the author.

Since there is actual evidence and not just he said, she said, I can condemn Starocci on the theft. PSU clearly should revoke the MAOTY award. That's just not a good look. Warren seems like a good candidate, but I don't know if there are others in sports I don't follow, but whatever, it shouldn't be Carter. In fact, these allegations were made in December. It should have been clear right away from the security tapes that it was either Carter or Kasak, and if Kasak can be cleared, then Cael should have kicked Carter off the team in December. I know that kills the dream of being a 5-timer, but breaking into a locker and stealing from teammate is absolutely a dismissable offense. Cael loses a good bit of credibility in this by allowing Carter to continue wrestling.

 

[AgSurfer]

Our legal system places a greater emphasis in making sure innocent people do not go to jail. While finding the truth is very important, the prosecution has to find the truth on its own unless the accused waives their Fifth Amendment rights. If finding the truth was emphasized over the possibility of a innocent person going to jail, there would be no Fifth Amendment.

You sure about that? Just letting you know that you better hope you never get indicted for a crime you did not commit. The prosecution determines whether or not to proceed with an indictment on one factor only. Do they have a good chance of obtaining a conviction? Whether or not the person being charged appears to be innocent or guilty has nothing to do with their decision.

If there are some bloodhounds in the Center County DA's office who see CStar's situation as an opportunity to advance their career, he better start looking around for a good defense attorney.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

With many details unclear or missing at this point it is fruitless to be dogmatic with our opinions. I mentioned in my above post how the article talked about the "missing" items from Beau's locker and also mentioned how Beau's locker had been "broken into". Those differences matter. The article makes it sound like Beau gave the police a definite timeframe when the theft had to have occurred. Was Beau 100% sure of the possible timeframe or was he making an educated guess? Could others have had access to the locker? Were the items ever found? Were Tyler or Carter carrying a bag where they could have concealed the items? Is Beau's locker visible to any cameras? Supposedly the police report would have addressed these questions. My broader point is that not everything is as clear cut as it sometimes first looks. This goes for the coaches' responses to information they supposedly were given. Sometimes the person bringing the complaint or allegation thinks they articulated their concerns clearly, but what the person on the receiving end heard is quite different.

Assuming details or "facts" as a police officer is a recipe for disaster. It would also behoove civilians, including my now retired self, to carefully weigh all the information at our disposal before jumping to any conclusions. I'm sure @tikk10 has some great insight on these topics also.

 

[McScoreley]

For people who are comparing this to Fitzgerald at Northwestern. Way different situation, some players testified he ENCOURAGED IT.

The former player said Fitzgerald signaled for players to be added to "Shrek's list" with a specific clapping motion during practice. He said he saw Fitzgerald make the motion at least five times since the 2020 season.

"He would be smiling menacingly at the individual who messed up, while simultaneously clapping his hands over his head in the specific manner, i.e., our head coach communicating that this individual did something wrong and needs to be put on the list and hazed accordingly. The vast majority of the team would then join in, following Fitz's lead," the former player said.

Ex-player calls for Fitzgerald ouster after inquiry

A former Northwestern football player on Sunday detailed his hazing allegations that sparked a university-commissioned investigation and said Pat Fitzgerald should no longer be the coach of the program.

www.espn.com

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

At 67, one of the most painful, gut-wrenching articles I've ever read.

57 here and im not even gonna bother.

 

[TwoJoints]

Precisely. Meanwhile, the truth is simply not the basis of the entire system anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I believe ours is by far the fairest, but it is still based on winning, not the truth. And no, I don't degrade defense attorneys for defending clients. However, even when an attorney finds evidence their client is guilty, they do not pass that along to the prosecution.

Then, you have to look at the corruption of courts throughout our country and the world. It's precisely why cartels run countries from Mexico to Columbia.

It’s up to the gov’t to prove whatever charges it brings beyond a reasonable doubt. If defense counsel uncovers evidence that their client is guilty and the prosecution does not have it, it would be legal malpractice and a reason for disbarment for the defendant’s attorney to turn that evidence over to the state. That’s the way our system works.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

To stick to just the few facts we all know to be true:

1) Cael constantly preaches about character. Focusing on the kind of man you want to be, and the life you want to live outside of wrestling, since wrestling is temporary. It's central to who he is as a man and a coach.

2) As with all great teachers throughout history, not all of the students listen.

With what we have heard so far, I remain steadfast in my confidence and belief that Cael acted appropriately with the information he possessed and any knowledge of other authorities who investigated.

As for Carter, these allegations are deeply deeply troubling, especially as they seem to indicate a pattern.

 

[psu2131]

Tough article to read. I am not in any way calling Beau a liar, but one thing confuses me. I attended the end of the year banquet. Beau spoke and talked about his times at penn state and how the coaching staff has shaped his life. This was after the season and his time at psu was completely over. Not all seniors speak. Only the ones that so choose. Why would he choose to say these great things about these people? He could have not spoke at all To others that attended the banquet, am I remembering his speech inaccurately?
Carter stuff is a whole other issue that I don't even want to think about.

 

[McScoreley]

Tough article to read. I am not in any way calling Beau a liar, but one thing confuses me. I attended the end of the year banquet. Beau spoke and talked about his times at penn state and how the coaching staff has shaped his life. This was after the season and his time at psu was completely over. Not all seniors speak. Only the ones that so choose. Why would he choose to say these great things about these people? He could have not spoke at all To others that attended the banquet, am I remembering his speech inaccurately?
Carter stuff is a whole other issue that I don't even want to think about.

In Beau's post here, he literally said his experience here was basically all positive minus Carter and nothing about the values the coaches preach is fake. He's obviously disappointed by how the coaches handled Carter but obviously that doesn't mean everything they did for him is meaningless.

Doesn't have to be one or the other and it's nice to see that he isn't trying to make this thing (a very serious thing) into something that ruined everything good he experienced here

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

If (and I have no idea what the truth is-nor do you-but you seem to understand the range of possibilities and then ignore it) is one of those instances where the truth is in the suspects favor-why the obligatory sympathy for the accuser.

Given that I doubt young men are any less interested in sex now than when when I in my early 20's, let's posit a possibility:

He invites her over for a "movie". They both are interested in a sexual encounter. He imagines it as a one-nighter, she imagines it was the beginning of an exclusive relationship. She doesn't get the follow up call for a date, flowers or whatever kids do now.

She's disappointed. Soon "He used me", becomes "no wait "he raped me". I know this is heresy these days, but just because you feel something, doesn't mean it's objectively factual or that it should be affirmed by society at large.

The truth in the hypothetical is that they both used each other in a meaningless tryst and just because she "feels" traumatized doesn't require an obligatory expression of misplaced compassion.

Honestly, if you spent 32 years in LE and don't understand that not all accusations are valid, as the recipient of a completely fabricated, nine page, handwritten with such rage the paper was embossed workplace sexual harassment complaint that took three months to be found without evidence, that's sad.

The reality is we don't have any check on false accusations and it's rewarded.

Maybe I was unclear in my post (I am notoriously slow in getting my thoughts out in a coherent manner) but I absolutely don't believe 100% of SA accusations are true, far from it. My point in having sympathy for the females talked about in the article is my giving them the benefit of the doubt that what they experienced was traumatic to them, irrespective of the details of their encounters with Carter. What one party may view as a consensual sexual encounter may be viewed by the other person as forced or non-consensual. What I don't want to do is be someone who pre-judges a SA allegation one way or the other. I will weigh the details of each case and come to an opinion. Often times my opinion will be that I don't have enough information to come to a reasonable opinion.

Finally, false SA accusations are horrible, have the great potential for ruining lives and are a complete disservice to those legitimate SA survivors. What I won't do, though, is allow my emotions to sway me to immediately take the side of the accuser over the accused or vice versa. I will be guided by the available evidence in each particular case. Now that I have addressed your concerns I will solely be focused on the particular details of any allegations against Carter.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

My thoughts on Beau are in the second to last post in the locked thread:

Beau's post & related news

Don't talk to me about being bright when you have such poor reading comprehension. Notice the 's' in "White Knights"? That means it's plural. And that means I wasn't talking to you alone, but to the broader group. Many in this forum have expressed sentiments like those I criticized. Also a...

pennstate.forums.rivals.com

Beau makes a good witness, and I believe him (and by extension his wife). At the same time, I can't judge Starocci on the SA charges until they've been vetted in a more official venue (i.e. LE investigation). I can't judge Cael on the SA charges unless he knew and killed it instead of reporting it (which was not reported in the article, but if that's the case in the wake of the Sandusky/Paterno affair, he absolutely should be fired immediately). We'll just have to wait and see on that, but I do believe that Beau and Syd were told what they relayed to the author.

Since there is actual evidence and not just he said, she said, I can condemn Starocci on the theft. PSU clearly should revoke the MAOTY award. That's just not a good look. Warren seems like a good candidate, but I don't know if there are others in sports I don't follow, but whatever, it shouldn't be Carter. In fact, these allegations were made in December. It should have been clear right away from the security tapes that it was either Carter or Kasak, and if Kasak can be cleared, then Cael should have kicked Carter off the team in December. I know that kills the dream of being a 5-timer, but breaking into a locker and stealing from teammate is absolutely a dismissable offense. Cael loses a good bit of credibility in this by allowing Carter to continue wrestling.

Re: last part. I thought the security tapes showed nothing - hence, the theft investigation was dropped

 

[PSUbluTX]

This is disturbing and disappointing . Anyone who committed, facilitated, or knowingly tolerated sexual assault should face the appropriate legal consequences. Hard stop.

The judgments and speculation being thrown around by some in this thread is straight up stupid and wrong unless those posters have personal knowledge of the actual relevant facts. Things are almost never exactly as claimed by one side of a dispute, let alone a third party reporting another person’s claims.

I respect those who withhold judgment until the established facts are clear enough to have an informed and intelligent opinion. And to those who believe everything you read in an online news article or repeat unconfirmed allegations as fact, I say “shame” on you, to borrow the language used by some in this thread.

PSU naming CS the MAOTY right now was colossally dumb. Unless they had already determined these apparently well-known allegations were unsubstantiated.

 

[WPB_lion]

You sure about that? Just letting you know that you better hope you never get indicted for a crime you did not commit. The prosecution determines whether or not to proceed with an indictment on one factor only. Do they have a good chance of obtaining a conviction? Whether or not the person being charged appears to be innocent or guilty has nothing to do with their decision.

If there are some bloodhounds in the Center County DA's office who see CStar's situation as an opportunity to advance their career, he better start looking around for a good defense attorney.

The two bolded sentences are inherently opposite. If the prosecution has a "good chance of obtaining a conviction" (which means proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the person accussed is guilty), then the person being charged does not appear to be innocent. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the highest legal standard of proof. If the person appears to be innocent, then, by definition, the person is not guilty beyond a reasonble doubt.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

? You had my post quoted in your response. Assuming a mistake as I didn't use AI for anything

Sometimes the quote button does goofy things and picks up an unrelated prior post I forget to toggle off. This was one of those times.

 

[James Toney]

All these years and only after he bolts he NOW decides to open up and take a shot.

 

[mjmirv]

Awkward

Local Area FCA

To see the world transformed by Jesus Christ through the influence of coaches and athletes.

fcawrestlingpacnw.org

 

[cowboyfan05]

Just don’t impugn people with dirty tactics like pointing out that behaviors don’t match feelings of being unsafe.

As I already explained, nothing about Beau's behavior is in opposition to the fact that he felt intimidated or unsafe. I don't know if you're having trouble following basic logic or if you simply lack empathy, but this isn't hard to understand.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Awkward

Local Area FCA

To see the world transformed by Jesus Christ through the influence of coaches and athletes.

fcawrestlingpacnw.org

Oh my God!

Camper: Dad, why are 2 of the counselors fighting?

 

[wrestlingfan22]

Re: last part. I thought the security tapes showed nothing - hence, the theft investigation was dropped

They don't have cams in the locker room. Cams showed only CSTAR and Kasak in the room at the time of alleged theft, but nothing ever could show either took the items.

 

[donboy6499]

As I already explained, nothing about Beau's behavior is in opposition to the fact that he felt intimidated or unsafe. I don't know if you're having trouble following basic logic or if you simply lack empathy, but this isn't hard to understand.

No need to make it personal just because someone disagrees with you.

 

[mjmirv]

I should’ve been more clear in my earlier post. Carter and Beau are scheduled to host a camp together in Idaho this weekend.

Local Area FCA

To see the world transformed by Jesus Christ through the influence of coaches and athletes.

fcawrestlingpacnw.org

 

[PAgeologist]

I should’ve been more clear in my earlier post. Carter and Beau are scheduled to host a camp together in Idaho this weekend.

Local Area FCA

To see the world transformed by Jesus Christ through the influence of coaches and athletes.

fcawrestlingpacnw.org

First off. Why would Beau agree to a camp with Carter, if everything Beau alleged is true.

Second. Given the new allegations, I have to think the Camp organizers tell Carter not to come.

 

[AgSurfer]

The two bolded sentences are inherently opposite. If the prosecution has a "good chance of obtaining a conviction" (which means proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the person accussed is guilty), then the person being charged does not appear to be innocent. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the highest legal standard of proof. If the person appears to be innocent, then, by definition, the person is not guilty beyond a reasonble doubt.

WRONG! I'll give you just one example but there are plenty more. A person is accused of a drug crime they did not commit but that person has a prior conviction on their record. The prosecution can use the person's prior conviction as "evidence" in a jury trial to prejudice the jury towards believing the person is guilty. The reason the prosecution proceeds with the indictment is not because the current evidence indicates guilt, but because the prior conviction convinces the prosecution they can get a second conviction based on the first. Hence, an innocent person is forced to accept a plea bargain for a crime they did not commit because they risk a more severe conviction if a jury is involved.

And that is NOT just a theoretical situation. I personally know of a situation where the exact scenario I stated above took place. The DA's office refused to consider withdrawing the indictment against the person being charged only because they knew they could get a conviction, not because they actually believed the person was guilty.

 

[wrestlingfan22]

A

I’m treating a very seriously reported allegation that has the right to destroy the accused.

The reason we shouldn’t separate the reporting standard here from the police standard is because there is an implication that a crime was reported up and ignored.

If the article was just “Carter Starocci has SA victims here’s some texts”, it allows freedom to believe or not. Once it’s implied another ignored mandatory reporting laws (and I work in a field where I have to be aware of these at all times), you need a higher preponderance of evidence that in fact it was a crime and it was reported and it was ignored. It’s a big deal and if genesis is “here are some texts”, then the whole thing falls apart.

Where is it implied the SA was reported? It says in the article the women are just coming forward and had only privately told other people/Syd Bartlett about it. It is never confirmed the coaches weren’t told but it is also far from implied that they knew anything about it

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I should’ve been more clear in my earlier post. Carter and Beau are scheduled to host a camp together in Idaho this weekend.

Local Area FCA

To see the world transformed by Jesus Christ through the influence of coaches and athletes.

fcawrestlingpacnw.org

Ridge Lovett going to show up at an empty gym like:

 

[Folkstylefan]

Cowgirl fan wants cael’s head so his cowpokes can have a chance at a natty. Same with the iowa board. Don’t know why some here think this will happen, the SA allegations were not reported to cael, and the theft was investigated, the hazing or practice abuse as i read it was but to what extent nobody on this board knows. Lets see what comes of it.

 

[donboy6499]

Where is it implied the SA was reported? It says in the article the women are just coming forward and had only privately told other people/Syd Bartlett about it. It is never confirmed the coaches weren’t told but it is also far from implied that they knew anything about it

We (and anyone reasonable) can assume (not in a court of law but in public opinion) that CS is kind of a scumbag at best. Felon at worst. Terrible.

The coach’s reactions are part of the article, there is addressing of their reaction to BB, and a reasonable reader can assume it’s a vital part of the story. This is true especially at the school where the Paterno Crisis unfolded.

Once CStar’s alleged actions are professed, you either address coach reaction completely or you don’t address it at all. Because once you address it for some of the article, even if you don’t know of the coaches knowledge of his actions, say this. Because the reader will see that the coaches were made aware for SOME, not OTHER, and naturally conflate that coaches were made aware.

It’s not that CS is right or wrong or the coaches, and it’s a better job of writing than the AJF takedown, but still, if taken at its word, there’s nothing there to think coaches needed to be brought up at all. The author had one foot in “they’re part of the story” and one foot out.

 

[Hotshoe]

It’s up to the gov’t to prove whatever charges it brings beyond a reasonable doubt. If defense counsel uncovers evidence that their client is guilty and the prosecution does not have it, it would be legal malpractice and a reason for disbarment for the defendant’s attorney to turn that evidence over to the state. That’s the way our system works.

Absolutely, yet, history has said no, that doesn't lead to justice. We have a long history of knowing this.

 

[District four]

The sources are “anonymous” in the paper, but I guarantee you they were thoroughly vetted.

Unless you personally did the vetting then your garuntee is worthless

 

[Dogwelder]

I’d do agree with you that often SA victims don’t want to relieve the trauma and therefore will not report it. Where I get confused (and understandably they are anonymous) but i don’t understand why’d they feel comfortable talking to a newspaper and relieving the trauma vs going to authorities. We are talking serious allegations and should be handled appropriately by authorities, especially when you don’t want it occuring to the next woman. If it’s a repeated behavior, authorities need to be involved

Thank you for telling us you are confused. But why are you confused? What is the source of your confusion? What is your current best guess at an explanation? Would you like help with improving your best guess?

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Sometimes the quote button does goofy things and picks up an unrelated prior post I forget to toggle off. This was one of those times.

I've never been able to properly use the quote button. That will be one of my first goals over at On3 : )