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Congratulations to Black (and other minority) PSU Wrestlers

Ambrowns

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2019
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I saw this Willie tweet in the ‘Why -insert current event phrase- is great’ thread and I felt it was relevant and important enough to get its own thread because of how important this achievement is for all persons of color in our sport.




There are those out there who do not want to acknowledge this as an achievement. This is likely due to a number of reasons not limited to the following:
  • Misunderstanding what the achievement is
  • Wanting to keep politics off the board (while likely commenting on the politics that they agree with on the above referenced thread and others)
  • Being racist and wanting to diminish the accomplishment (hopefully nobody on this board falls into this category)

To the board members who read this tweet and post and feel the pressure to react negatively toward it: This is not an attack on you, your values, your politics, or anything else that is attributed to you. Please allow my brothers and sisters that have a different skin color than me (and you) have a moment of pride about their recent accomplishments. Please stay positive in this thread.

This tweet and post are about raising awareness of a struggle that many of us cannot comprehend. This tweet and post are about congratulating persons of color for accomplishing this amazing feat while having a level of disadvantage growing up in the sport and in life. This tweet and post are about raising others up so that they may have the confidence and courage to continue this trend in wrestling and in life. This tweet and post are about recognizing the brotherly camaraderie within the PSU room that fosters an accomplishment like this (an example we can all live by).

I want to congratulate those that Willie’s tweet refers to but also all of the other minorities who train and compete alongside them. I want to identify some of the things you’ve accomplished through your efforts (some more obvious than others):
  • You won a gold medal in the NCAA D1 National Championships. A goal you set for yourself long ago.
  • You raised awareness for those who may look like you and watched you succeed. You have inspired confidence and courage in them so that they can accomplish goals of their own.
  • You raised awareness for those who may not look like you and are ignorant of the additional hardships that you face in wrestling and in life.
  • You have shown those who may have hatred toward you and people who look like you that you will not be brought down because of their hatred. You have shown them that you will continue to accomplish what you set out to do and there is nothing that they can do about it.
  • You have shown that the PSU wrestling family welcomes minorities as brothers (and hopefully someday soon, sisters).
  • You have shown that the wrestling community must welcome minorities and not place obstacles in the way.
  • You have collectively shown that brotherhood and support can help you achieve your goals.
  • You have given pride to those who have gone before you.
  • You have given pride to your families (biological families, adoptive families, wrestling families, honorary families) who have gone through this struggle with you.

There are so many other things outside of a gold medal that have been achieved through your efforts to reach your personal goals. I thank you and congratulate you for all of them.
 
Not to mention, 5 athletes of color winning a national title this season alone. That's pretty cool!

I fully agree. Amazing accomplishment to have half of the champions be athletes of color.

Also, I want to point out that while I agree with the intention of Willie’s tweet, I think the wording is a little misleading on who should be credited for the accomplishment. While Cael has certainly fostered a successful and welcoming environment for these athletes, it is their accomplishment, not his. He gave them an avenue for success, they bought in, worked hard, battled opposition, and accomplished those goals. Congrats again!
 
Congrats to all for this amazing accomplishment! It should be acknowledged and celebrated.

I've run software companies now for 30 years and have never once cared what race, creed, or gender my staff is. I want the best possible person working for me so we will be successful. Have never understood thinking any other way but I guess I was lucky that that's the way I was raised.
 
I saw this Willie tweet in the ‘Why -insert current event phrase- is great’ thread and I felt it was relevant and important enough to get its own thread because of how important this achievement is for all persons of color in our sport.




There are those out there who do not want to acknowledge this as an achievement. This is likely due to a number of reasons not limited to the following:
  • Misunderstanding what the achievement is
  • Wanting to keep politics off the board (while likely commenting on the politics that they agree with on the above referenced thread and others)
  • Being racist and wanting to diminish the accomplishment (hopefully nobody on this board falls into this category)

To the board members who read this tweet and post and feel the pressure to react negatively toward it: This is not an attack on you, your values, your politics, or anything else that is attributed to you. Please allow my brothers and sisters that have a different skin color than me (and you) have a moment of pride about their recent accomplishments. Please stay positive in this thread.

This tweet and post are about raising awareness of a struggle that many of us cannot comprehend. This tweet and post are about congratulating persons of color for accomplishing this amazing feat while having a level of disadvantage growing up in the sport and in life. This tweet and post are about raising others up so that they may have the confidence and courage to continue this trend in wrestling and in life. This tweet and post are about recognizing the brotherly camaraderie within the PSU room that fosters an accomplishment like this (an example we can all live by).

I want to congratulate those that Willie’s tweet refers to but also all of the other minorities who train and compete alongside them. I want to identify some of the things you’ve accomplished through your efforts (some more obvious than others):
  • You won a gold medal in the NCAA D1 National Championships. A goal you set for yourself long ago.
  • You raised awareness for those who may look like you and watched you succeed. You have inspired confidence and courage in them so that they can accomplish goals of their own.
  • You raised awareness for those who may not look like you and are ignorant of the additional hardships that you face in wrestling and in life.
  • You have shown those who may have hatred toward you and people who look like you that you will not be brought down because of their hatred. You have shown them that you will continue to accomplish what you set out to do and there is nothing that they can do about it.
  • You have shown that the PSU wrestling family welcomes minorities as brothers (and hopefully someday soon, sisters).
  • You have shown that the wrestling community must welcome minorities and not place obstacles in the way.
  • You have collectively shown that brotherhood and support can help you achieve your goals.
  • You have given pride to those who have gone before you.
  • You have given pride to your families (biological families, adoptive families, wrestling families, honorary families) who have gone through this struggle with you.

There are so many other things outside of a gold medal that have been achieved through your efforts to reach your personal goals. I thank you and congratulate you for all of them.
Excellent post. Thanks for the thought you put into it
 
Everything in life works better when we support each other. That is what makes dreams come true. Colorblindness is the only blindness that makes the world a more beautiful place!
giphy-downsized-large.gif
 
Unfortunately, if you look at some of the comments on Willie's tweet or if anyone saw the Instagram post Flo put up congratulating the 5 young men this year you will see the sad sentiments of many in the wrestling community. Many will not see the struggles a lot of these athletes will have in participating in what is a historically white sport. I remember Hall alluding to some comments directed at him at Carver I think last year that he said got in his head a bit. Most wrestling fans I would assume do not have ill will but those who are so outraged in people congratulating young men over an accomplishment have no place in this community.
 
... I want to identify some of the things you’ve accomplished ...:
  • You won a ...
  • You raised ...
  • You raised ...
  • You have ...
  • You have ...
  • You have ...
  • You have ...
  • You have ...
  • You have ...
...
Willie nailed it. Thank you OP for the good subject matter and sentiments.

The execution of the original post was iffy for me. Man, if you, Ambrowns, are not of color, and your words imply you are not, the original post seems like some serious whitesplaining. Tone deaf. Cringy. As in, “what do you mean by you people?” I’ve given my feedback, I won’t reply on this. If you are black, then never mind.
 
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I saw this Willie tweet in the ‘Why -insert current event phrase- is great’ thread and I felt it was relevant and important enough to get its own thread because of how important this achievement is for all persons of color in our sport.




There are those out there who do not want to acknowledge this as an achievement. This is likely due to a number of reasons not limited to the following:
  • Misunderstanding what the achievement is
  • Wanting to keep politics off the board (while likely commenting on the politics that they agree with on the above referenced thread and others)
  • Being racist and wanting to diminish the accomplishment (hopefully nobody on this board falls into this category)

To the board members who read this tweet and post and feel the pressure to react negatively toward it: This is not an attack on you, your values, your politics, or anything else that is attributed to you. Please allow my brothers and sisters that have a different skin color than me (and you) have a moment of pride about their recent accomplishments. Please stay positive in this thread.

This tweet and post are about raising awareness of a struggle that many of us cannot comprehend. This tweet and post are about congratulating persons of color for accomplishing this amazing feat while having a level of disadvantage growing up in the sport and in life. This tweet and post are about raising others up so that they may have the confidence and courage to continue this trend in wrestling and in life. This tweet and post are about recognizing the brotherly camaraderie within the PSU room that fosters an accomplishment like this (an example we can all live by).

I want to congratulate those that Willie’s tweet refers to but also all of the other minorities who train and compete alongside them. I want to identify some of the things you’ve accomplished through your efforts (some more obvious than others):
  • You won a gold medal in the NCAA D1 National Championships. A goal you set for yourself long ago.
  • You raised awareness for those who may look like you and watched you succeed. You have inspired confidence and courage in them so that they can accomplish goals of their own.
  • You raised awareness for those who may not look like you and are ignorant of the additional hardships that you face in wrestling and in life.
  • You have shown those who may have hatred toward you and people who look like you that you will not be brought down because of their hatred. You have shown them that you will continue to accomplish what you set out to do and there is nothing that they can do about it.
  • You have shown that the PSU wrestling family welcomes minorities as brothers (and hopefully someday soon, sisters).
  • You have shown that the wrestling community must welcome minorities and not place obstacles in the way.
  • You have collectively shown that brotherhood and support can help you achieve your goals.
  • You have given pride to those who have gone before you.
  • You have given pride to your families (biological families, adoptive families, wrestling families, honorary families) who have gone through this struggle with you.

There are so many other things outside of a gold medal that have been achieved through your efforts to reach your personal goals. I thank you and congratulate you for all of them.
Just quoting the original post as I saw it.
 
I fully agree. Amazing accomplishment to have half of the champions be athletes of color.

Also, I want to point out that while I agree with the intention of Willie’s tweet, I think the wording is a little misleading on who should be credited for the accomplishment. While Cael has certainly fostered a successful and welcoming environment for these athletes, it is their accomplishment, not his. He gave them an avenue for success, they bought in, worked hard, battled opposition, and accomplished those goals. Congrats again!

I could be wrong but something tells me the tweet is subtle response to Greg Martin ...
 
And yet there are an overwhelming majority of us that support the achievement and the greatness in wrestling without recognizing it as a basis of skin color. As you promote skin color and make generalizations for the entire group you:
1. Attribute your assumed struggles on each of them regardless of whether they experienced them.
2. Ignore other factors that contributed to their success.
3. Continue to feed into the divide based on race rather than normalizing the achievement based on athleticism.
As I watched the championships there wasn’t a single moment where I thought about race but rather rooted for my PSU guys and others based solely on my fandom. I wanted Steveson to lose because of his past showboating but also respected his abilities. I love the Carr story and rooted for him to win. I think each of these guys can use their accomplishments to be excellent role models but they are individuals before they are representative of a group. The picture of the 5 champs is awesome and indicative of their continuing role model status.
One last thing, why choose race as a reason as you just as easily could have selected the fact that each of these men seem to have very strong 2 parent family relationships? Not making everything about race is not the same as being racist.
 
And yet there are an overwhelming majority of us that support the achievement and the greatness in wrestling without recognizing it as a basis of skin color. As you promote skin color and make generalizations for the entire group you:
1. Attribute your assumed struggles on each of them regardless of whether they experienced them.
2. Ignore other factors that contributed to their success.
3. Continue to feed into the divide based on race rather than normalizing the achievement based on athleticism.
As I watched the championships there wasn’t a single moment where I thought about race but rather rooted for my PSU guys and others based solely on my fandom. I wanted Steveson to lose because of his past showboating but also respected his abilities. I love the Carr story and rooted for him to win. I think each of these guys can use their accomplishments to be excellent role models but they are individuals before they are representative of a group. The picture of the 5 champs is awesome and indicative of their continuing role model status.
One last thing, why choose race as a reason as you just as easily could have selected the fact that each of these men seem to have very strong 2 parent family relationships? Not making everything about race is not the same as being racist.

The old “talking about race” causes racism argument.
 
The old “talking about race” causes racism argument.
If you don’t think there is some accuracy in that statement you are naive. There is a thin line that needs to be walked between promoting racial equality and over-promoting racial equality. First and foremost honest discussion needs to be had. Currently the social “sciences” have dictated the terms and guilt requires people to fall in line but without a doubt these issue s as well as humans in general are more complicated then simple racial generalizations. I do find it ironic that all 5 of these men seem to have very strong family influences and we don’t promote that as a contributing factor but yet say their race is a factor without any of us knowing if true.
 
Just not sure why race should matter period. PSU has had more NC champs in the past 10 then any other college--the end
That point has already been made multiple times in multiple places. This is an interesting and praiseworthy sub-point. Also, the more athletes that view your program as one that will welcome them and help them succeed (I.e. the broader your prospective talent pool), the easier it is to recruit who you want.
 
I think if it is important to the athletes, then it should be important to the fans. Tennis and golf are examples of a “White” sport where athletes of color made a huge impact and provided a role model for younger people coming into the sport. These five young men were able to use their success to again demonstrate that wrestling is a sport where POC are succeeding. Willie’s stat is just another data point. It can’t help TnT recruit non-white athletes when the UI athletic department was in the news all fall with reports of discriminatory behavior of football coaches.
 
If you don’t think there is some accuracy in that statement you are naive. There is a thin line that needs to be walked between promoting racial equality and over-promoting racial equality. First and foremost honest discussion needs to be had. Currently the social “sciences” have dictated the terms and guilt requires people to fall in line but without a doubt these issue s as well as humans in general are more complicated then simple racial generalizations. I do find it ironic that all 5 of these men seem to have very strong family influences and we don’t promote that as a contributing factor but yet say their race is a factor without any of us knowing if true.
You are welcome to start a thread that congratulates each of the athlete's parent's for being strong influences in their accomplishments. I think that strong family connections and influences are amazing and should be praised.

But that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about congratulating these POC athletes for what they accomplished and how that can inspire others who look like them to accomplish their goals/dreams. I don't say this out of guilt at all. I'm proud of these athletes and think they deserve to be recognized and celebrated.
 
I think if it is important to the athletes, then it should be important to the fans. Tennis and golf are examples of a “White” sport where athletes of color made a huge impact and provided a role model for younger people coming into the sport. These five young men were able to use their success to again demonstrate that wrestling is a sport where POC are succeeding. Willie’s stat is just another data point. It can’t help TnT recruit non-white athletes when the UI athletic department was in the news all fall with reports of discriminatory behavior of football coaches.
I think your first sentence says it all. If these athletes didn't think it was important, they wouldn't have huddled up together for a picture together. That alone should keep anyone from questioning whether this is actually an accomplishment. These athletes think it is!
 
If you don’t think there is some accuracy in that statement you are naive. There is a thin line that needs to be walked between promoting racial equality and over-promoting racial equality. First and foremost honest discussion needs to be had. Currently the social “sciences” have dictated the terms and guilt requires people to fall in line but without a doubt these issue s as well as humans in general are more complicated then simple racial generalizations. I do find it ironic that all 5 of these men seem to have very strong family influences and we don’t promote that as a contributing factor but yet say their race is a factor without any of us knowing if true.

i don't think anyone is saying that their race is a contributing factor to their success, but rather a distinguishing factor that sets this set of champs apart from the ones that came before them.
 
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One last thing, why choose race as a reason as you just as easily could have selected the fact that each of these men seem to have very strong 2 parent family relationships? Not making everything about race is not the same as being racist.

But your not so subtle implication that these men have a 2 parent household could be interpreted as racial or race related as well.
 
But your not so subtle implication that these men have a 2 parent household could be interpreted as racial or race related as well.
Why? Because 2 parent households are a quality only achievable on a societal level by Caucasian family units? Maybe the unwillingness to have legitimate conversations regarding cause and effect will create this perpetual conflict and thereby never achieve the post creator’s objectives.
 
Why? Because 2 parent households are a quality only achievable on a societal level by Caucasian family units? Maybe the unwillingness to have legitimate conversations regarding cause and effect will create this perpetual conflict and thereby never achieve the post creator’s objectives.

Why would we need to highlight that as a notable achievement? Coming from a 2-parent household has never been an impediment or barrier to achievement or success. And further, acknowledging the support of parents is a common, almost ubiquitous theme in wrestling generally and for the champions specifically. The importance of parental support in wrestling is well covered.

The fact that a mention or two gets this level of reaction is...enlightening.
 
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Congrats to the 5 "black" wrestlers that won titles! Also, congrats to the 5 "white" wrestlers that won titles! Awesome accomplishment! What a cool story to tell their grandkids someday
 
Why would we need to highlight that as a notable achievement? Coming from a 2-parent household has never been an impediment or barrier to achievement or success. And further, acknowledging the support of parents is a common, almost ubiquitous theme in wrestling generally and for the champions specifically. The importance of parental support in wrestling is well covered.

The fact that a mention or two gets this level of reaction is...enlightening.
Because possibly if you dove deeper into understanding how people progress in life and the influences they put them in the positions they are then maybe we can promote that for overall societal benefit rather than giving a pass or special acknowledgement based on color of skin. Although unique experience being non-white I am sure other athletes overcame far more impediments than these 5 yet we don’t celebrate them because they don’t fit societal image of someone needing that support. We should celebrate these 5 and the other 5 champs as what they are which is excellent athletes to reach the pinnacle of their sport and to suggest they did so with some sort of perceived adversity is assuming facts not in evidence. Maybe they were on the receiving end of racist or prejudicial behavior but maybe they were not and the assumption that they were could be perceived as racist. Whether we like it or not barring the current atmosphere and maybe even including such America is perhaps the least racist country in the world and less racist than any time in history.
 
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Just not sure why race should matter period. PSU has had more NC champs in the past 10 then any other college--the end
I never heard you speak up when people were celebrating how many Pennsylvania high schoolers achieved NCAA success. In which thread did you say “Just not sure why state of origin should matter period.”?
 
Because possibly if you dove deeper into understanding how people progress in life and the influences they put them in the positions they are then maybe we can promote that for overall societal benefit rather than giving a pass or special acknowledgement based on color of skin. Although unique experience being non-white I am sure other athletes overcame far more impediments than these 5 yet we don’t celebrate them because they don’t fit societal image of someone needing that support. We should celebrate these 5 and the other 5 champs as what they are which is excellent athletes to reach the pinnacle of their sport and to suggest they did so with some sort of perceived adversity is assuming facts not in evidence. Maybe they were on the receiving end of racist or prejudicial behavior but maybe they were not and the assumption that they were could be perceived as racist. Whether we like it or not barring the current atmosphere and maybe even including such America is perhaps the least racist country in the world and less racist than any time in history.

OK bud. We did celebrate all 10. Maybe you missed it, but there was a 3 hour event last Saturday night dedicated to celebrating them.

Then, two tweets were sent and 1 thread was put on a message board. I guess that part was too much for some people.
 
Worthwhile topic of discussion. IMO, issues of racial perception, influence, motivation, and bias are more complex than an internet message board can convey. It's nearly impossible to escape the distorting lens of our own paradigm and too easy to retreat behind the shield of our personal biases and misperceptions.

It’s also foolish to presume one can accurately see into the mind and heart of another person. It’s the moment of action or speech when the hidden things in a person’s heart and mind get converted to observable data, when character is revealed. Hence the truism “actions speak louder than words.”

While not a member of a minority race, I am a member of other minority groups and have felt the sting of irrational discrimination. Like @PSUAllTheWay, I will never understand people who treat others or judge their worth based on anything other than the content of their character. The overwhelming majority of people in my circle are of the same mind. People like us embrace laudable efforts to ensure racial equality and cringe when overly broad accusations or insinuations of racism are made.
 
The old “talking about race” causes racism argument.

I personally Love the Acknowledgment of the achievement, Why, Because after a few of these conversations in my life I now Realize we agree, These amazing kids did an amazing thing:)

Fact is there are a lot of people who don't focus or care about Race because they were raised to see Human, Not color. I was in this category, and for a long time conversations like these made me feel strange because I did not understand. The Truth is there are a lot of people now being told Everyone sees Race, They truly believe it is impossible not to see things through a racial lens (Consciously or Subconsciously).

If you you are in the Category of seeing human beings no matter the race equally know that the other side is not saying that we are not equals but just highlighting the human condition and perseverance. This is actually a wonderful thing.

If you are in the Category of Trying to get to Equality through enlightened racial sensitivity know that the other side truly believes they are already at the equality stage in practice and principle, Even if you fervently disagree with them, that does not make them uncaring or racist. JMHO
 
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I saw this Willie tweet in the ‘Why -insert current event phrase- is great’ thread and I felt it was relevant and important enough to get its own thread because of how important this achievement is for all persons of color in our sport.




There are those out there who do not want to acknowledge this as an achievement. This is likely due to a number of reasons not limited to the following:
  • Misunderstanding what the achievement is
  • Wanting to keep politics off the board (while likely commenting on the politics that they agree with on the above referenced thread and others)
  • Being racist and wanting to diminish the accomplishment (hopefully nobody on this board falls into this category)

To the board members who read this tweet and post and feel the pressure to react negatively toward it: This is not an attack on you, your values, your politics, or anything else that is attributed to you. Please allow my brothers and sisters that have a different skin color than me (and you) have a moment of pride about their recent accomplishments. Please stay positive in this thread.

This tweet and post are about raising awareness of a struggle that many of us cannot comprehend. This tweet and post are about congratulating persons of color for accomplishing this amazing feat while having a level of disadvantage growing up in the sport and in life. This tweet and post are about raising others up so that they may have the confidence and courage to continue this trend in wrestling and in life. This tweet and post are about recognizing the brotherly camaraderie within the PSU room that fosters an accomplishment like this (an example we can all live by).

I want to congratulate those that Willie’s tweet refers to but also all of the other minorities who train and compete alongside them. I want to identify some of the things you’ve accomplished through your efforts (some more obvious than others):
  • You won a gold medal in the NCAA D1 National Championships. A goal you set for yourself long ago.
  • You raised awareness for those who may look like you and watched you succeed. You have inspired confidence and courage in them so that they can accomplish goals of their own.
  • You raised awareness for those who may not look like you and are ignorant of the additional hardships that you face in wrestling and in life.
  • You have shown those who may have hatred toward you and people who look like you that you will not be brought down because of their hatred. You have shown them that you will continue to accomplish what you set out to do and there is nothing that they can do about it.
  • You have shown that the PSU wrestling family welcomes minorities as brothers (and hopefully someday soon, sisters).
  • You have shown that the wrestling community must welcome minorities and not place obstacles in the way.
  • You have collectively shown that brotherhood and support can help you achieve your goals.
  • You have given pride to those who have gone before you.
  • You have given pride to your families (biological families, adoptive families, wrestling families, honorary families) who have gone through this struggle with you.

There are so many other things outside of a gold medal that have been achieved through your efforts to reach your personal goals. I thank you and congratulate you for all of them.

I will do my best to put my emotions (very heartfelt) aside while writing this post. I truly appreciate the poster that started this thread and the many posts supporting the original poster. I am also grateful for the opinions that vary. A little bit about me. I am black. I put on my first singlet at 8 years old and wrestled until I graduated in 1995 from a program in the WPIAL. From the moment that I first stepped into the mat room, I was one of the few or in some cases the only black kid there. Unless you have experienced situations constantly where no one looks like you or perhaps talks like you, it's very hard for you to imagine how it feels to a kid growing up and learning in this country or world.

I can count many times, as a kid, when my own teammates would call me M&M, because I was black. When I would travel with them to Athletes in Action camps, sometimes I would have to make friends with others who I never met because my own teammates would act like they didn't know me.

Growing up, seeing magazines with Kenny Monday or Kevin Jackson on the cover was huge for me. Even through the differences and uncomfortable situations that I encountered, the one thing that was constant was my love for the sport, a sport that I love to this day. Those negative experiences didn't change when I got older. In high school I was one of two black guys on the team. We were not allowed to listen to any hip-hop in the mat room. Only could listen to Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Metallica (all music that I detested but now really enjoy). I don't think my coaches were being racist in their mind, but how can they know that by having these rules you are telling black kids who may identify with hip-hop culturally, to leave their culture and who they are at the door.

This is why these 5 champions took this picture. Believe me, in this sport where black kids are the vast minority, we have all had similar situations. But the love for the sport was always there.

To me, I attribute much of my success in life to the lessons that I learned on the mat. I think wrestling is the best sport in the world for life lessons. You get what you put into it. Sometimes you win as a freshman and sometimes you dominate your weight class for years and can't sniff a championship (Marinelli). This sport is not fair! However, it can prepare you for life.

Why that picture is important to me, I want to grow this sport. I want black kids to see that they can compete in this sport. I want them and all kids to learn the life lessons that this sport will provide.
 
I just noticed Gable Stevenson's dad looks just like my uncle Randy lol. I didn’t know he was white. (Sidenote- in some of those google pictures i could really see Gable's physical development as he aged over the years. That broad shoulderd young kid sure distended his body into one stout man!)
 
I just noticed Gable Stevenson's dad looks just like my uncle Randy lol. I didn’t know he was white. (Sidenote- in some of those google pictures i could really see Gable's physical development as he aged over the years. That broad shoulderd young kid sure distended his body into one stout man!)
Maybe Uncle Randy is one of those guys with two families! :)

(Can you score us NCAA tix through your new-found family connection? :))
 
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I will do my best to put my emotions (very heartfelt) aside while writing this post. I truly appreciate the poster that started this thread and the many posts supporting the original poster. I am also grateful for the opinions that vary. A little bit about me. I am black. I put on my first singlet at 8 years old and wrestled until I graduated in 1995 from a program in the WPIAL. From the moment that I first stepped into the mat room, I was one of the few or in some cases the only black kid there. Unless you have experienced situations constantly where no one looks like you or perhaps talks like you, it's very hard for you to imagine how it feels to a kid growing up and learning in this country or world.

I can count many times, as a kid, when my own teammates would call me M&M, because I was black. When I would travel with them to Athletes in Action camps, sometimes I would have to make friends with others who I never met because my own teammates would act like they didn't know me.

Growing up, seeing magazines with Kenny Monday or Kevin Jackson on the cover was huge for me. Even through the differences and uncomfortable situations that I encountered, the one thing that was constant was my love for the sport, a sport that I love to this day. Those negative experiences didn't change when I got older. In high school I was one of two black guys on the team. We were not allowed to listen to any hip-hop in the mat room. Only could listen to Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Metallica (all music that I detested but now really enjoy). I don't think my coaches were being racist in their mind, but how can they know that by having these rules you are telling black kids who may identify with hip-hop culturally, to leave their culture and who they are at the door.

This is why these 5 champions took this picture. Believe me, in this sport where black kids are the vast minority, we have all had similar situations. But the love for the sport was always there.

To me, I attribute much of my success in life to the lessons that I learned on the mat. I think wrestling is the best sport in the world for life lessons. You get what you put into it. Sometimes you win as a freshman and sometimes you dominate your weight class for years and can't sniff a championship (Marinelli). This sport is not fair! However, it can prepare you for life.

Why that picture is important to me, I want to grow this sport. I want black kids to see that they can compete in this sport. I want them and all kids to learn the life lessons that this sport will provide.
Thank you for that, Very Impactful and a Perspective I know many of us need to hear to truly understand the impact of the accomplishment:)
 
I will do my best to put my emotions (very heartfelt) aside while writing this post. I truly appreciate the poster that started this thread and the many posts supporting the original poster. I am also grateful for the opinions that vary. A little bit about me. I am black. I put on my first singlet at 8 years old and wrestled until I graduated in 1995 from a program in the WPIAL. From the moment that I first stepped into the mat room, I was one of the few or in some cases the only black kid there. Unless you have experienced situations constantly where no one looks like you or perhaps talks like you, it's very hard for you to imagine how it feels to a kid growing up and learning in this country or world.

I can count many times, as a kid, when my own teammates would call me M&M, because I was black. When I would travel with them to Athletes in Action camps, sometimes I would have to make friends with others who I never met because my own teammates would act like they didn't know me.

Growing up, seeing magazines with Kenny Monday or Kevin Jackson on the cover was huge for me. Even through the differences and uncomfortable situations that I encountered, the one thing that was constant was my love for the sport, a sport that I love to this day. Those negative experiences didn't change when I got older. In high school I was one of two black guys on the team. We were not allowed to listen to any hip-hop in the mat room. Only could listen to Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Metallica (all music that I detested but now really enjoy). I don't think my coaches were being racist in their mind, but how can they know that by having these rules you are telling black kids who may identify with hip-hop culturally, to leave their culture and who they are at the door.

This is why these 5 champions took this picture. Believe me, in this sport where black kids are the vast minority, we have all had similar situations. But the love for the sport was always there.

To me, I attribute much of my success in life to the lessons that I learned on the mat. I think wrestling is the best sport in the world for life lessons. You get what you put into it. Sometimes you win as a freshman and sometimes you dominate your weight class for years and can't sniff a championship (Marinelli). This sport is not fair! However, it can prepare you for life.

Why that picture is important to me, I want to grow this sport. I want black kids to see that they can compete in this sport. I want them and all kids to learn the life lessons that this sport will provide.
There in kind of lies the point. Anyone who takes issues with these young men posting a picture promoting their success and being a role model or mentor to their community, lineage, etc. should evaluate their motives and biases. I think it’s great and if 2 Jewish kids did the same I would also say it’s great. Although the original post was done in a respectful tone but to come in a public forum and virtue signal than if you are not in complete agreement with their point you need to look within yourself to find your own fault. We are a society where racial issues have created a divide and any pushback to the publicly accepted narrative results in you being labeled as a racist regardless if there is a basis to do so. Let the kids celebrate their accomplishment and let them even promote it through a blog or tweet or whatever form they choose. It is theirs to own and should not be used by others to further feed the divide. If we allowed things to occur more naturally from all sides I believe we would have less division and a true understanding of race related issues in this country.
 
Maybe Uncle Randy is one of those guys with two families! :)

(Can you score us NCAA tix through your new-found family connection? :))
LMAO! I'm going to call him right now! Funny part he lives near Spirit Lake, IA. 20 mins or so from the Minnesota border... And he takes a lot of fishing trips up north :)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Dogwelder
It’s interesting to think about the difference between Iowa and Penn State from the perspective of a potential recruit.

If you’re a young, elite, black high school wrestler, coming from a high school with a few other black friends and teammates, where would you feel more comfortable?

A school like Penn State, where nearly a quarter of the roster is black? Where four starters, all of them All-Americans, are black?

Or Iowa, which as far I can tell has zero black wrestlers? Now, I’m not implying that Iowa did anything to bring that about. But, it’s certainly a different look and culture overall than PSU.
 
I will do my best to put my emotions (very heartfelt) aside while writing this post. I truly appreciate the poster that started this thread and the many posts supporting the original poster. I am also grateful for the opinions that vary. A little bit about me. I am black. I put on my first singlet at 8 years old and wrestled until I graduated in 1995 from a program in the WPIAL. From the moment that I first stepped into the mat room, I was one of the few or in some cases the only black kid there. Unless you have experienced situations constantly where no one looks like you or perhaps talks like you, it's very hard for you to imagine how it feels to a kid growing up and learning in this country or world.

I can count many times, as a kid, when my own teammates would call me M&M, because I was black. When I would travel with them to Athletes in Action camps, sometimes I would have to make friends with others who I never met because my own teammates would act like they didn't know me.

Growing up, seeing magazines with Kenny Monday or Kevin Jackson on the cover was huge for me. Even through the differences and uncomfortable situations that I encountered, the one thing that was constant was my love for the sport, a sport that I love to this day. Those negative experiences didn't change when I got older. In high school I was one of two black guys on the team. We were not allowed to listen to any hip-hop in the mat room. Only could listen to Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Metallica (all music that I detested but now really enjoy). I don't think my coaches were being racist in their mind, but how can they know that by having these rules you are telling black kids who may identify with hip-hop culturally, to leave their culture and who they are at the door.

This is why these 5 champions took this picture. Believe me, in this sport where black kids are the vast minority, we have all had similar situations. But the love for the sport was always there.

To me, I attribute much of my success in life to the lessons that I learned on the mat. I think wrestling is the best sport in the world for life lessons. You get what you put into it. Sometimes you win as a freshman and sometimes you dominate your weight class for years and can't sniff a championship (Marinelli). This sport is not fair! However, it can prepare you for life.

Why that picture is important to me, I want to grow this sport. I want black kids to see that they can compete in this sport. I want them and all kids to learn the life lessons that this sport will provide.
——- end thread (I really wanted to say “Boom” but I don’t want to infringe on the trademarks held by J Jaggers and Goodale) Thanks @smealpsu2005
 
It’s interesting to think about the difference between Iowa and Penn State from the perspective of a potential recruit.

If you’re a young, elite, black high school wrestler, coming from a high school with a few other black friends and teammates, where would you feel more comfortable?

A school like Penn State, where nearly a quarter of the roster is black? Where four starters, all of them All-Americans, are black?

Or Iowa, which as far I can tell has zero black wrestlers? Now, I’m not implying that Iowa did anything to bring that about. But, it’s certainly a different look and culture overall than PSU.
This was the Greg Martin argument against Penn State.
 
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