Congratulations to Black (and other minority) PSU Wrestlers
- Thread starter Ambrowns
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Discussing racial issues can be difficult and painful, but honest conversations are vitally important if we want to see race relations improve. Empathy and a willingness to give the other person the benefit of the doubt can go a long way. Like some other posters have stated, if it is important to the athletes then I should honor that. If I want to truly love my neighbor as myself then I need to be willing to listen to them and take an honest assessment of my life to see if there are areas in my life where I am being part of the problem and not part of mutual respect and edification.
Reverse racism is still racism, even if it may be understandable.
I pray we get to the day when we can see individuals As just that and nothing else.
I pray we get to the day when we can see individuals As just that and nothing else.
I think it is good for the sport! I'm thankful for the fact these 5 young men choose to wrestle, so I was able to see the talent on display. I don't watch basketball. Wrestling needs to recruit the best athletes no matter the race into the sport. Everybody takes something different from what they see. I noticed all four champions from PSU seem to be fairly vocal about faith. I never really gave color too much thought, but I can still appreciate the five champions in retrospect. Who wouldn't want a daughter to marry a guy like David Carr or Aaron Brooks? Great young men and leaders of tomorrow.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. It should hit home for everyone, imo.
As a Penn State wrestling fan, I'm extremely proud that Cael, his staff and the rest of the program have created, from all appearances, an environment in which young black men feel comfortable and empowered to achieve their wrestling goals. Three black champs from one program in one year is a wonderful achievement and I have to believe Penn State is the first to do so. 1978 had four black champs, but all were from different schools.
I do get Willie and JBs point. However, I wish we could could get to a place where we see great wrestlers and great young men, not great black wrestlers. As a middle aged (assuming I live well into my 100s) white guy...I suppose I may lack perspective. I suppose if five champs had Mc’ or O’ in front of their name I might want to celebrate their Irish heritage. Or if five champs had names ending in a vowel....my wife might want to celebrate their Italian heritage. Probably would not get the same push back JB and Willie are getting. But these men are all great wrestlers and the only colors I see on the mat are blue and white.
The pic of the 5 POC winners was cool......I didn't know it was a first and was surprised actually. Didn't really think about it. I thought it was cool when CJF said, he wanted to be the first AA NC coach. I hadn't thought about it and was surprised to realize the next AA NC coach would be the first. I felt the same way when Doug Williams was the first AA Super Bowl winning Quarterback. I was surprised and didn't realize he was the first.
If something is important so someone, it is a good thing. Their faith, their background, where they are from, whatever. If it inspires others, even better.
I am not sure PSU is any better place for "minority" wrestlers than any other place. We are the best option for the best high school talent. We have a national recruiting footprint, probably broader than any other school. I could be wrong but I know we have had an enormous amount of wrestlers openly talk about their faith. Someday, we may even talk about dead lifts.
If something is important so someone, it is a good thing. Their faith, their background, where they are from, whatever. If it inspires others, even better.
I am not sure PSU is any better place for "minority" wrestlers than any other place. We are the best option for the best high school talent. We have a national recruiting footprint, probably broader than any other school. I could be wrong but I know we have had an enormous amount of wrestlers openly talk about their faith. Someday, we may even talk about dead lifts.
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I hate identity politics. I wish we lived in a world where it is never brought up and everyone was just 'a person'.
that being said, i love that the sport i care so much about is diverse, and i hope it continues to be a place where every walk of life is welcomed with open arms and can learn the life lessons associated with wrestling (and even better yet if they can become superstars).
somewhere around 5 years ago at the us open i tweeted that 5 of the 8 (or something like that) champs were minorities and a lot of people threw a fit. i'll say again what i said back than - my intention was not to divide, but to recognize wrestling as a place of inclusion.
to go further - it is also a source of pride that many of the successful minorities come from pa or wrestle for pa institutions.
that being said, i love that the sport i care so much about is diverse, and i hope it continues to be a place where every walk of life is welcomed with open arms and can learn the life lessons associated with wrestling (and even better yet if they can become superstars).
somewhere around 5 years ago at the us open i tweeted that 5 of the 8 (or something like that) champs were minorities and a lot of people threw a fit. i'll say again what i said back than - my intention was not to divide, but to recognize wrestling as a place of inclusion.
to go further - it is also a source of pride that many of the successful minorities come from pa or wrestle for pa institutions.
Beat the Streets kids got 5 new role models. And every one of them had fun on the mat.
I think its great that 10 young men recently won a national championship in wrestling. It is great that the sport has diversity and is able to get some great athletes away from basketball. It shows that in wrestling, if you work hard to maximize your abilities you can reach your goals.
I have no issue with someone highlighting their achievement or what is important to them. That being said, just imagine if a basketball team with 5 white starters won the NCAA tournament and tweeted that picture and caption, they would get crucified.
That double standard is what rubs people the wrong way.
I acknowledge what smeals posted, I can only imagine what it is like to be the one or two people in the room who is in the minority or any place for that matter. The persiverence to overcome that challenge to reach the ultimate goal is impressive, especially when it starts at a very young age. Maybe it should be stated that way.
I coach high school track, I have an athlete that I train who was offered a full scholarship by a HBCU, the athlete turned it down and accepted a small partial at another school. The biggest reason which was unsaid is feeling comfortable at the school (people don't want to talk about it). I pointed out, it could be really difficult to go from school where you are white and the high school and your community is 98% white to a HBCU where it is 2% white. I had another athlete attend a HBCU, no issues, but he grew up in an area that is very diverse (I coach at a magnet school in a rural area which pulls from the entire county).
I can remember back in the 80's at PSU, the black students from the urban areas generally struggled. The black kids from the suburbs or rural areas did well. Being comfortable with the environment was probably a big reason.
Its too bad that race can not be discussed without pissing someone off. Probably a big part of that is social media and news stories that communicate in small chunks. Small chunks does not allow for in depth discussions which is truly needed.
I have no issue with someone highlighting their achievement or what is important to them. That being said, just imagine if a basketball team with 5 white starters won the NCAA tournament and tweeted that picture and caption, they would get crucified.
That double standard is what rubs people the wrong way.
I acknowledge what smeals posted, I can only imagine what it is like to be the one or two people in the room who is in the minority or any place for that matter. The persiverence to overcome that challenge to reach the ultimate goal is impressive, especially when it starts at a very young age. Maybe it should be stated that way.
I coach high school track, I have an athlete that I train who was offered a full scholarship by a HBCU, the athlete turned it down and accepted a small partial at another school. The biggest reason which was unsaid is feeling comfortable at the school (people don't want to talk about it). I pointed out, it could be really difficult to go from school where you are white and the high school and your community is 98% white to a HBCU where it is 2% white. I had another athlete attend a HBCU, no issues, but he grew up in an area that is very diverse (I coach at a magnet school in a rural area which pulls from the entire county).
I can remember back in the 80's at PSU, the black students from the urban areas generally struggled. The black kids from the suburbs or rural areas did well. Being comfortable with the environment was probably a big reason.
Its too bad that race can not be discussed without pissing someone off. Probably a big part of that is social media and news stories that communicate in small chunks. Small chunks does not allow for in depth discussions which is truly needed.
Re: that picture. I thought from the start that PSU should have gotten one more black wrestler: David Carr. It's long been obvious that genetics play a role in wrestling generations, and Carr is at the top of the gene pool. Oh well, Iowa State was a lock.
Looking back, in '65, the co-captain of our high school team was black -elected by the team. I didn't think about it at the time (who did?), but my town had just started getting blockbusters moving in to our lily white neighborhoods. It wasn't the most welcoming place for diversity. Yet our co-captain was a long time resident and a monster on the mat. So even in the stone ages, being a great wrestler made some difference. (Not a lot, I'm afraid.)
In these times there couldn't be a more appropriate thread than this. It's time for everyone to assess their place in the racial landscape and to acknowledge that centuries of repression have got to end. (Tell it to Georgia!)
So obviously, we are deficient in Asian wrestlers and Native Americans.
We must all hang our heads in shame.
If you are going to get race conscious let's go all in!
Wrestling has been the one place where all that mattered was beating another man. Guess that's gone.
We must all hang our heads in shame.
If you are going to get race conscious let's go all in!
Wrestling has been the one place where all that mattered was beating another man. Guess that's gone.
Maybe you should leave the reductio ad absurdum to thems that can do it.
#logic
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Oh boy, deep conversation. Well, as a father of one of the wrestlers, I’d love to weigh in. In my opinion the diversity of our champions is a major victory for wrestling. 6 million people watched a very diverse finals. So, we should celebrate our diversity which will hopefully translate into an increase in minority participation. Any increase in participation will translate to more views and hopefully increase opportunities for all wrestlers. Win win! Does it help our team recruit minority wrestlers because we have a diverse roster? It 100% does, because people want to feel comfortable and it helps when you have people of similar backgrounds participating. When will we stop talking about color/race? When everyone is the same color lol! It’s unavoidable, but we can do our best to respect differences and celebrate wrestlings wins. Just like the ladies being added helped wrestling, cultural diversity will also help it grow. Be proud of the job our staff does to bring in diversity and make sure everyone is comfortable. PSU is once again leading the way and lets hope all the programs can become more diverse.
ISU has had highly diverse rosters for years. The program doesn't fit the high profile claim quite as well as PSU, but Cael and Casey absolutely took this desire to bring in the best people no matter skin color from Bobby Douglas imo. Bobby liked high quality people and could coach anyone.
I just became an even bigger Jordan Burroughs fan. Very well said.
And here is the issue with race based participation recognition. African American males make up approximately 12 percent of the male population of the United States. They made up 12 percent of the field at the tournament. Calling for greater participation is at the expense of another race/ethnicity. Who determines which race/ethnicity is not represented based on their percentage of overall population? We should be focused of equal opportunity not equal outcome.
This. And the picture IS important. Thank you for explaining clearly.
Help me understand why indicating Cael has coached more black champions than anyone is valuable. To me it cheapens the battle for equality in some way...like it’s a contest for who can do it best. And I don’t feel good about that statement. I’m left a bit confused wondering what happens if another coach passed Cael next year. What is the message? Cause he obviously just passed someone else.
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What a load of hogwash. Best wrestler starts no matter what the color of their skin and the 33 best wrestlers at each weight make the NCAAs no matter the color of their skin. You act like we want to "give" minorities a spot in the NCAAs and no one is saying anything like that.
Maybe you need to control your emotions and do some analytical thought. I never called for any of what you said and nowhere in any comments will you find that. Your need to take a side in an argument makes you come to conclusions rather than rational discussion. I am all for reasonable discussion on issues as I find that the most consistent means to an end but that requires you to listen to sides you don’t not agree with to gain a complete understanding.
What about the other minorities/ethnicity then?? Hispanics, Asians etc...
TBH, I didn’t even realize we had 5 black champions this year.. I just saw 10 ncaa champs..
Hopefully kids growing up these days all feel they have an equal opportunity
I hope I’m not putting words in Jordan’s mouth but I did not interpret his tweets the way you did. I don’t think the 12 percent statement was a number that Jordan was saying he was disappointed in. He was pointing out that having 5 champs out of that 12 percent number was a great achievement. He was saying it was a bigger achievement in wrestling than in other sports (specifically football and basketball) because those sports have historically had much greater numbers of black participation.
Also, I don’t think the 12% percent number was a hugely important part of his main point. His point was that we should be celebrating this historical achievement. One reason is that it is just that...the first time it has ever been done in the history of the tournament. The second is that it gives young wrestlers who are black encouragement, role models, and a feeling of belonging that they sometimes may not feel.
This is an opportunity to congratulate and celebrate successes, both individual and collective. I think we have a lot to celebrate in this instance.
Why aren't there more white players on DI basketball teams?After all 60% of the population is white.If we want to be PC every sports team should be 60% white,18% Hispanic,12%AA,6% Asian and 2%Multiple.Everyone would be happy and no one offended.
Thankfully, absolutely no one is sincerely making this argument. Simply celebrating success is a far cry from trying to allocate a distribution among athletes.
As long as any white guy is provided an opportunity to play, there is no issue.
The world would be a better place if reading more and from lots of different sources became a thing.
Well, ok, but there are limits.
Not really sure that reading HR makes anything better.
Yes, but I didn’t want to get political. Let’s just say this - reading things like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is to be strongly discouraged (especially if you work for the Capitol Police)
[SARCASM] Bravo! And here is the issue with recognition of Pennsylvania high schoolers who achieve AA and NC status. Pennsylvanian males make up approximately 4 percent of the male population of the United States. They made up 21 percent of the AAs at the tournament. Calling for greater participation of Pennsylvania high schoolers is at the expense of darlings from another state. Who determines which state is not represented based on their percentage of overall population? We should be focused of equal opportunity not equal outcome! [/SARCASM]
We’re okay man. Thanks. Tough year for my older son which hampers the rest of us in a way, but things are looking up. Covid and virtual school really tested my boys. How about you?
I hope that things get much better for him and the rest of you quickly.
We're all well. Being able to work from home full-time has been a gift. Our daughter is finishing her sophomore year and plans to study abroad in Paris next spring. We've been fortunate. Take care.
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