Dear Athletic Dept, I humbly submit for your consideration that the time to return to nameless

[EPC FAN]

football jerseys is upon us. I will always be grateful for the commitments of the courageous young men who stood by Penn State in time of crisis. They represent the best of Penn State, and the inclusion of their names into the uniform was and is a fitting tribute. However as we move past the sanction era, the continued inclusion of the names dilutes the intention of that honor and is a disservice to those men. We have an opportunity to preserve the nobility of that tribute by allowing it to occupy its rightful place within the context of history. We also have an opportunity to honor the current football program by affording it the dignity of resuming a proud identity earned through decades of achieving Success with Honor.

Thank you for your consideration.

Zenophile

Joe wanted no names on the jerseys. Joe got what HE wanted for HIS teams. Now, we've had coaches not named Joe Paterno, who feel otherwise. It is their decision to make, not guys who can't bear the fact that Joe is no longer Head Coach.
Had Joe retired and handed the program to one of his guys, we'd still have no names on the jerseys. Joe didn't do for his guys what Rip did for him, so that lineage is gone and a new one is in place. One that honors Joe's commitment to academic excellence, but allows a bit more leeway on some other things. I will take names on the uniforms, a little longer hair and the same excellence in the classroom, any day.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Yeah, that is what I was trying to allude to. Changing anything from the Paterno era is a struggle.

Amazing how some of you want to play this off as Paterno love instead of respect for a proud tradition. But I suppose that's all you have.

 

[fairgambit]

I don't think this is really about the names. I think many here don't want anything changed from when Paterno left. If he had put names on the uniforms for the 2011 season or
sooner, there would be no discussion unless Franklin removed them.

I disagree. First of all, I don't associate "no names" with Joe. It's a Penn State tradition, not a Paterno one. That aside, I think most responsible posters here who value, and seek to preserve, Joe's legacy understand this is a new era. Nearly all of them welcome the more aggressive recruiting, the better relations with high school coaches and the media, the new playbook. If anything, it seems to me many of Joe's critics are the one's stuck in the past. They continue to shovel dirt on Joe's legacy rather than embracing his accomplishments and his place in both Penn State, and college football history.

 

[getmyjive11]

Amazing how some of you want to play this off as Paterno love instead of respect for a proud tradition. But I suppose that's all you have.

Oh please. Joe was the coach when putting names on the back of uniforms became popular. He was the one who pushed to maintain the simple uniform, it had nothing to do with tradition. He wanted us to resemble the Yankees so that' sweat we did. Not saying it was wrong (they are some of the best uniforms in college football), but it was certainly a Joe thing.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Oh please. Joe was the coach when putting names on the back of uniforms became popular. He was the one who pushed to maintain the simple uniform, it had nothing to do with tradition. He wanted us to resemble the Yankees so that' sweat we did. Not saying it was wrong (they are some of the best uniforms in college football), but it was certainly a Joe thing.

Have you never heard the call "black shoes, basic blues, no names, all game"? Yes, it was a GD proud tradition and it has nothing to do with Joe love!

This is one of those times where I would love to violate one of the board rules.

 

[Fizz1]

Count me in the with "no names" crowd, but I think Franklin is definitely a "name on my jersey" type of guy. Maybe the next coach.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Some of you, apparently have short memories and think everything is just peachey again, like nothing happened. Wrong.

We were Pedophile U, with sanctions that looked like they would send the program back to playing Lackawanna and Lehigh. The coaches felt we needed every edge to recruit with. They couldn't do a wholesale uniform change without sending half the fanbase into a coronary and early death, and they needed their support. So, names on the jerseys was the best they could do, along those lines to modernize.

Careful with your accusations, and your claims.

If anything, it's you that has a short memory. I've posted several times about the decision to put names on the uniforms in 2012. Bill O'Brien said multiple times, between the time he was hired and the announcement of names on the uniforms, that there would not be changes to the uniforms. The absence of names on the unis was not a big deal to him.

The decision to put names on the uniforms was not made by O'Brien and his staff. The decision was made at a higher level, and O'Brien was informed of what was going to take place -- not asked if he agreed with it. He was a good soldier in the press, indicated that he supported the change, and to some extent even made statements that seemed to indicate that the change was made by the coaching staff. However, in private he was angry that he was undercut, and made to look foolish, after he had stated repeatedly that there would be no changes to the uniforms.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Tom, Who made the decision and if you can't say, is that individual still with Penn State?

 

[Nittany00978]

I like the tradition of no names on the jerseys.

But if we insist on having names on the jerseys, please don't allow Spider Caldwell's wife to do the sewing.

Two of the most embarrassing things I've seen with PSU football:

• The turf conditions vs. LSU in the 2010 Capital One Bowl
• The names falling off the Penn State jerseys at Virginia

I didn't intend it as a personal dig. It was still quite embarrassing. If it was a last minute thing why not outsource the job?

Spiders wife's jerseys were above average quality sewing - every letter was individually stitched on into the jersey. This happened after the UVA game. The UVA jerseys were outsourced, but they weren't done properly due to inexperience with having the names on the back of the jerseys. Now they are just stitched onto a name plate which is then sewn on the back of the jersey - not on the jersey itself.

 

[Raffycorn]

Careful with your accusations, and your claims.

If anything, it's you that has a short memory. I've posted several times about the decision to put names on the uniforms in 2012. Bill O'Brien said multiple times, between the time he was hired and the announcement of names on the uniforms, that there would not be changes to the uniforms. The absence of names on the unis was not a big deal to him.

The decision to put names on the uniforms was not made by O'Brien and his staff. The decision was made at a higher level, and O'Brien was informed of what was going to take place -- not asked if he agreed with it. He was a good soldier in the press, indicated that he supported the change, and to some extent even made statements that seemed to indicate that the change was made by the coaching staff. However, in private he was angry that he was undercut, and made to look foolish, after he had stated repeatedly that there would be no changes to the uniforms.

Tom, if all this were true and adding the names was really a grander plot by nefarious administrators to spit on a Penn State football tradition, why hasn't Franklin simply taken the names off? I would think that autonomy over the program would have been something granted to Franklin in the negotiation process, particularly with the transition in AD administration. Or has Franklin been a "good soldier", as well?

 

[bsmith51]

Kids' decisions can be influenced by something as trivial as whether a school uses Nike or Under Armour. Probably not a determining factor but a factor none the less. I think the fact that Franklin cares about his players doing good in school and being positive influences in the community is paying homage to Penn State tradition. I think very few fans under 40 care about the "no names" thing. I think the names look good and hope they leave them. But whatever they do, its Franklin's decision. He has his hand on the pulse of the team and is in the best position to balance tradition with what the players and recruit want. I am also fine with them switching to alternative uniforms once a year. Recruits love that.

 

[joewp]

Keep the names, it is part of moving on from the BS from the NCAA. I like them because it is easy to ID players and I view it as a statement from the wearers that We are Penn State.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

The decision was made at a higher level, and O'Brien was informed of what was going to take place -- not asked if he agreed with it

I think very few fans under 40 care about the "no names" thing.

I don't think you know what the under 40 group think and shouldn't be about what the whole fan base thinks? If not, why not?

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Keep the names, it is part of moving on from the BS from the NCAA. I like them because it is easy to ID players and I view it as a statement from the wearers that We are Penn State.

And I think no-names say's We are Pen State - it is the Penn State tradition!

 

[getmyjive11]

And I think no-names say's We are Pen State - it is the Penn State tradition!

Not anymore.

 

[bsmith51]

I have never personally had a conversation with anyone under forty who care about this issue. I am sure they exist but I have never come across anyone in that demographic who has raised this issue with me. And I don't buy that this decision was made at a higher level. I think the simplest explanation (which is usually the true explanation) is that O'Brien did exactly what he said. He put the names on the back of jerseys to honor those who stayed. I highly doubt anyone from the BOT or AD got involved in that decision. Unless someone has concrete evidence otherwise, I think any statements that the decision came down from above is pure conjecture. Bottom line, this is a Frankln decision and I am good with whatever he does.

 

[michnittlion]

[QUOTE="Tom McAndrew, post: 225474, member: 58"I've posted several times about the decision to put names on the uniforms in 2012. Bill O'Brien said multiple times, between the time he was hired and the announcement of names on the uniforms, that there would not be changes to the uniforms. The absence of names on the unis was not a big deal to him.[/QUOTE]

When in the January 2012 to June 2012 time frame (e.g., between being hired and Freeh Report release) did O'Brien make any comments about our uniforms?

I don't recall that all, and after looking for a few minutes, I can't find any links/documentation either.

 

[bsmith51]

And even if O'Brien did say multiple times leading up to the season that he would not modify the uniforms, so what? What does that prove? He was not locked into any particular course of action. Isn't it possible that O'Brien thought during the week of the UVA game that the team needed a boost in morale and that adding names to the back might do it. Why is the explanation that it was a decision from above any more likely then the hypothesis I just posed?

 

[lipbalm]

I agree with you Blue Band 100%,

 

[TheGLOV]

football jerseys is upon us. I will always be grateful for the commitments of the courageous young men who stood by Penn State in time of crisis. They represent the best of Penn State, and the inclusion of their names into the uniform was and is a fitting tribute. However as we move past the sanction era, the continued inclusion of the names dilutes the intention of that honor and is a disservice to those men. We have an opportunity to preserve the nobility of that tribute by allowing it to occupy its rightful place within the context of history. We also have an opportunity to honor the current football program by affording it the dignity of resuming a proud identity earned through decades of achieving Success with Honor.

Thank you for your consideration.

Zenophile

No way!

The names stay ON!

Long over due.

Refreshing change.

PSUKnocker also agrees with me!!!

 

[Zenophile]

Joe wanted no names on the jerseys. Joe got what HE wanted for HIS teams. Now, we've had coaches not named Joe Paterno, who feel otherwise. It is their decision to make, not guys who can't bear the fact that Joe is no longer Head Coach.
Had Joe retired and handed the program to one of his guys, we'd still have no names on the jerseys. Joe didn't do for his guys what Rip did for him, so that lineage is gone and a new one is in place. One that honors Joe's commitment to academic excellence, but allows a bit more leeway on some other things. I will take names on the uniforms, a little longer hair and the same excellence in the classroom, any day.

Fact: there is no reference to Joe Paterno in my post, and his name appears 7 times in yours.

 

[BlueBand]

Careful with your accusations, and your claims.

If anything, it's you that has a short memory. I've posted several times about the decision to put names on the uniforms in 2012. Bill O'Brien said multiple times, between the time he was hired and the announcement of names on the uniforms, that there would not be changes to the uniforms. The absence of names on the unis was not a big deal to him.

The decision to put names on the uniforms was not made by O'Brien and his staff. The decision was made at a higher level, and O'Brien was informed of what was going to take place -- not asked if he agreed with it. He was a good soldier in the press, indicated that he supported the change, and to some extent even made statements that seemed to indicate that the change was made by the coaching staff. However, in private he was angry that he was undercut, and made to look foolish, after he had stated repeatedly that there would be no changes to the uniforms.

I will defer to Tom on this one as to who made the decision. He has access few, if any, of us have. That said, I stand behind my statements on the state of the program at the time.

I too, would like an answer as to why the names are still on. I assume either a.) the person(s) who made the decision are still in charge, or b.) Franklin wants them on.

 

[EPC FAN]

Fact: there is no reference to Joe Paterno in my post, and his name appears 7 times in yours.

View embedded media

Not an obsession, BUT it was Joe's tradition. When most other schools went to names on the jersey in the '60s, he did not. Before the '60s, every school had the "tradition" of no names on jerseys. Penn State had numbers on the helmets, stripes on the pants, shiny white pants and that changed over the years. Names is just another small change.
Frankly, I'm done with this. If the coach takes names off the jerseys, good for him. If he leaves them on the jerseys, good for him.

 

[Zenophile]

Not an obsession, BUT it was Joe's tradition.

It's Penn State's tradition

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Tom, Who made the decision and if you can't say, is that individual still with Penn State?

I've posted about this several times over the past 2 years. I've not disclosed the identity of the individual(s) that made the decision, and don't anticipate doing so in the near future.

Tom, if all this were true and adding the names was really a grander plot by nefarious administrators to spit on a Penn State football tradition, why hasn't Franklin simply taken the names off? I would think that autonomy over the program would have been something granted to Franklin in the negotiation process, particularly with the transition in AD administration. Or has Franklin been a "good soldier", as well?

Raffycorn, I think you're going a little over the deep end here. I did not state nor imply that "adding names was really a grander plot by nefarious administrators to spit on a Penn State football tradition." As for autonomy over the football program, CJF has a great deal of that. Like all coaches at PSU, he has a boss. The transition in the AD admin happened after CJF was hired, so I'm not sure why that would have been a factor in CJF's negotiations about the PSU football coaching job.

And I don't buy that this decision was made at a higher level. I think the simplest explanation (which is usually the true explanation) is that O'Brien did exactly what he said. He put the names on the back of jerseys to honor those who stayed. I highly doubt anyone from the BOT or AD got involved in that decision. Unless someone has concrete evidence otherwise, I think any statements that the decision came down from above is pure conjecture.

"You think," and you "highly doubt." You're free to believe whatever you want. However, if you're going to basically claim that I'm a liar, you better have more than just your beliefs or your doubts to go on. Unlike you, I've spoken to multiple individuals that were in the football program, or in the administration, who knew the details of what took place. These individuals did not want to be quoted on the record. Sorry if that doesn't meet your standards of proof, but it's rock solid, and far more accurate than what you think took place.

When in the January 2012 to June 2012 time frame (e.g., between being hired and Freeh Report release) did O'Brien make any comments about our uniforms?

In multiple meetings with fans at Coaches Caravan stops, as well as in other settings.

And even if O'Brien did say multiple times leading up to the season that he would not modify the uniforms, so what? What does that prove? He was not locked into any particular course of action. Isn't it possible that O'Brien thought during the week of the UVA game that the team needed a boost in morale and that adding names to the back might do it. Why is the explanation that it was a decision from above any more likely then the hypothesis I just posed?

Well one is a fact, that has been admitted to me by multiple people, all off the record. The other is a guess of yours, supported by nothing other than your imagination.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

No way!

The names stay ON!

Long over due.

Refreshing change.

PSUKnocker also agrees with me!!!

PSUKnocker also agrees with me!!!

 

[michnittlion]

In multiple meetings with fans at Coaches Caravan stops, as well as in other settings.

OK, thanks --- I found those quotes from the Coaches Caravan, that is correct.

Given that the team was nearly falling apart in late July 2012, uniforms were likely not particularly high on O'Brien's list of concerns at that time. When the decision came from above, that's just not a fight worth waging a portion of your finite energy on.

That likely did piss O'Brien off though ---- but I suspect the first time that O'Brien seriously thought about leaving Penn State was in May 2013, when various people were trying to undermine him with that leaked story to Sports Illustrated.

For people who have inside knowledge of Penn State football ---- a real question I'd like answered is "who were the people who leaked that absurd story to SI?" Those folk were serious Benedict Arnolds as regards O'Brien's long-term tenure at Penn State. Much more serious Benedict Arnolds than anyone who ordered that names must be on the back of our jerseys.

 

[Zenophile]

OK, thanks --- I found those quotes from the Coaches Caravan, that is correct.

Given that the team was nearly falling apart in late July 2012, uniforms were likely not particularly high on O'Brien's list of concerns at that time. When the decision came from above, that's just not a fight worth waging a portion of your finite energy on.

That likely did piss O'Brien off though ---- but I suspect the first time that O'Brien seriously thought about leaving Penn State was in May 2013, when various people were trying to undermine him with that leaked story to Sports Illustrated.

For people who have inside knowledge of Penn State football ---- a real question I'd like answered is "who were the people who leaked that absurd story to SI?" Those folk were serious Benedict Arnolds as regards O'Brien's long-term tenure at Penn State. Much more serious Benedict Arnolds than anyone who ordered that names must be on the back of our jerseys.

I just hope the irony of your "Benedict Arnold" analogy is intentional.

 

[michnittlion]

I just hope the irony of your "Benedict Arnold" analogy is intentional.

There may be other "Benedict Arnolds to Penn State" in this whole affair, I've never denied that.

Nothing proven though, just yet.

But to my main point (my main point wasn't around the phrase "Benedict Arnold") --- the simple fact is that somebody was a source for that May 2013 story in SI. Who?

 

[Aoshiro]

I've posted about this several times over the past 2 years. I've not disclosed the identity of the individual(s) that made the decision, and don't anticipate doing so in the near future.

I'll take a guess. Are his initials Dave Joyner?

 

[TheGLOV]

I'll take a guess. Are his initials Dave Joyner?

Suhey perhaps??

 

[bsmith51]

I am not calling you a liar. Nor do I have any reason to. I independently evaluate facts as well as the source of the facts. I don't know who you talked to or how close to the situation the people you talked to really were. You may very well be right (and I am interested in what you have to say) but I have not seen enough facts to sway me one way or the other. To me, Bill O'Brien seems like a person who was not going to cow tail to anyone. That could be why he is in the pros right now because he does not seem like someone who likes dealing with alumni, fund raising, etc. Unless the below excerpts from an article has misquotes from O'Brien, I don't see why he would come out in support of the decision the way he did if the decision regarding the names was a directive from above and he had no say so over the matter.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...s-to-back-of-football-uniforms/1#.VX76u7PbLug


"In 2012, that will change. Penn State announced Tuesday that names will be added because first-year coach Bill O'Brien wants to recognize the players who stayed committed to the program in the wake of severe NCAA sanctions.

"That's one of those Joe rules, and that's something he stuck to for years," Clark said. "But Bill O'Brien is not Joe."

The uniforms will also feature a blue ribbon in support of all victims of child sex abuse, the school said, and it encouraged all fans to wear a blue ribbon to each of the seven home football games this season.

"We want our fans to know and recognize these young men," O'Brien said in a news release. "They have stuck together during tough times, and I commend them for the leadership they have shown. Moving forward, I'm deeply committed to honoring Penn State's traditions, while building a bright future for our football program."

According to the release, O'Brien consulted with several members of the team and collectively made the decision. The school said there has been no decision made about keeping the names beyond this season.

"These guys were enthused about the fact their names would be on the back of the jerseys," O'Brien told the school's athletics website, GoPSUSports.com, following Tuesday's practice. "They understood the reason why, and we had a lot of communication on it and at the end of the day we felt good about the decision."

 

[Aoshiro]

Bill O'Brien seems like a person who was not going to cow tail to anyone.

"Cow tail?" Is that a central PA thing?

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Careful with your accusations, and your claims.

If anything, it's you that has a short memory. I've posted several times about the decision to put names on the uniforms in 2012. Bill O'Brien said multiple times, between the time he was hired and the announcement of names on the uniforms, that there would not be changes to the uniforms. The absence of names on the unis was not a big deal to him.

The decision to put names on the uniforms was not made by O'Brien and his staff. The decision was made at a higher level, and O'Brien was informed of what was going to take place -- not asked if he agreed with it. He was a good soldier in the press, indicated that he supported the change, and to some extent even made statements that seemed to indicate that the change was made by the coaching staff. However, in private he was angry that he was undercut, and made to look foolish, after he had stated repeatedly that there would be no changes to the uniforms.

Of course, I believe you.

That leads to another question. The 2012 added to the stadium: celebration of team or celebration of coup?

 

[Zenophile]

I am not calling you a liar. Nor do I have any reason to. I independently evaluate facts as well as the source of the facts. I don't know who you talked to or how close to the situation the people you talked to really were. You may very well be right (and I am interested in what you have to say) but I have not seen enough facts to sway me one way or the other. To me, Bill O'Brien seems like a person who was not going to cow tail to anyone. That could be why he is in the pros right now because he does not seem like someone who likes dealing with alumni, fund raising, etc. Unless the below excerpts from an article has misquotes from O'Brien, I don't see why he would come out in support of the decision the way he did if the decision regarding the names was a directive from above and he had no say so over the matter.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...s-to-back-of-football-uniforms/1#.VX76u7PbLug


"In 2012, that will change. Penn State announced Tuesday that names will be added because first-year coach Bill O'Brien wants to recognize the players who stayed committed to the program in the wake of severe NCAA sanctions.

"That's one of those Joe rules, and that's something he stuck to for years," Clark said. "But Bill O'Brien is not Joe."

The uniforms will also feature a blue ribbon in support of all victims of child sex abuse, the school said, and it encouraged all fans to wear a blue ribbon to each of the seven home football games this season.

"We want our fans to know and recognize these young men," O'Brien said in a news release. "They have stuck together during tough times, and I commend them for the leadership they have shown. Moving forward, I'm deeply committed to honoring Penn State's traditions, while building a bright future for our football program."

According to the release, O'Brien consulted with several members of the team and collectively made the decision. The school said there has been no decision made about keeping the names beyond this season.

"These guys were enthused about the fact their names would be on the back of the jerseys," O'Brien told the school's athletics website, GoPSUSports.com, following Tuesday's practice. "They understood the reason why, and we had a lot of communication on it and at the end of the day we felt good about the decision."

Because the media always gets it exactly right.

 

[bsmith51]

Hence, my hedge unless there are "misquotes from O'Brien."

 

[nits74]

I've posted about this several times over the past 2 years. I've not disclosed the identity of the individual(s) that made the decision, and don't anticipate doing so in the near future.



Raffycorn, I think you're going a little over the deep end here. I did not state nor imply that "adding names was really a grander plot by nefarious administrators to spit on a Penn State football tradition." As for autonomy over the football program, CJF has a great deal of that. Like all coaches at PSU, he has a boss. The transition in the AD admin happened after CJF was hired, so I'm not sure why that would have been a factor in CJF's negotiations about the PSU football coaching job.



"You think," and you "highly doubt." You're free to believe whatever you want. However, if you're going to basically claim that I'm a liar, you better have more than just your beliefs or your doubts to go on. Unlike you, I've spoken to multiple individuals that were in the football program, or in the administration, who knew the details of what took place. These individuals did not want to be quoted on the record. Sorry if that doesn't meet your standards of proof, but it's rock solid, and far more accurate than what you think took place.



In multiple meetings with fans at Coaches Caravan stops, as well as in other settings.



Well one is a fact, that has been admitted to me by multiple people, all off the record. The other is a guess of yours, supported by nothing other than your imagination.

Well it's been nearly four years since Sandusky and the fallout, yet no one wants to divulge anything, not even in regard to something so relatively benign as a uniform change. Simply amazing at this point.

 

[Zenophile]

Hence, my hedge unless there are "misquotes from O'Brien."

Guess you've covered all the bases then.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Well it's been nearly four years since Sandusky and the fallout, yet no one wants to divulge anything, not even in regard to something so relatively benign as a uniform change. Simply amazing at this point.

Two totally different situations.

The JS saga is complicated, in that there are ongoing investigations, ongoing lawsuits, and C/S/S are still charged by the PA OAG with no indication if the charges will stand and/or when the cases will go to trial. Most people that could provide info here prefer to only speak off the record to those they trust, or not speak at all so that they avoid being noticed by the investigating authorities.

The 2012 uniform change was imposed on the football team/coach. O'Brien and his staff are not going to burn any bridges by disclosing the details of the situation. I'm not going to address the other side of the equation.

 

[michnittlion]

Two totally different situations.

The JS saga is complicated, in that there are ongoing investigations, ongoing lawsuits, and C/S/S are still charged by the PA OAG with no indication if the charges will stand and/or when the cases will go to trial. Most people that could provide info here prefer to only speak off the record to those they trust, or not speak at all so that they avoid being noticed by the investigating authorities.

The 2012 uniform change was imposed on the football team/coach. O'Brien and his staff are not going to burn any bridges by disclosing the details of the situation. I'm not going to address the other side of the equation.

O'Brien's not our Head Coach anymore. A decent chunk of his staff is gone too. I can't imagine why they would possibly care about "burning any bridges", but whatever ........