Did Imar disrespect Cenzo? Did he lose because of it?

[21Guns]

Remember now, the first time Imar lost to Nolf, it was because he did not respect Nolf enough. That was Imar's own word, right there. IMar, then respected Nolf, and corrected the mistake, and Imar went on to win a championship, showing great heart in the process. His heart was lauded far and wide, including by himself. He told everyone that he wouldn't make that mistake again.

This is his second loss of his career, but it was his third meeting with Cenzo, not his first. What was the problem this time? Disrespect again? No. I don't think so. I don't think disrespect was the reason Imar lost to Cenzo Joseph.

Excuse me, get pinned by Cenzo Joseph.

With Joseph leading 6-5 at the time, not trailing.

I have not heard the reason for the loss yet from Imar, so keep me posted when he reveals the reason.

 

[Locolion]

Remember now, the first time Imar lost to Nolf, it was because he did not respect Nolf enough. That was Imar's own word, right there. IMar, then respected Nolf, and corrected the mistake, and Imar went on to win a championship, showing great heart in the process. His heart was lauded far and wide, including by himself. He told everyone that he wouldn't make that mistake again.

This is his second loss of his career, but it was his third meeting with Cenzo, not his first. What was the problem this time? Disrespect again? No. I don't think so. I don't think disrespect was the reason Imar lost to Cenzo Joseph.

Excuse me, get pinned by Cenzo Joseph.

With Joseph leading 6-5 at the time, not trailing.

I have not heard the reason for the loss yet from Imar, so keep me posted when he reveals the reason.

He tripped over Cenzo's (mammoth) nuts and fell on his back.

 

[NittanyLion84]

The one advantage I think IMar had over Nolf, was strength. He learned the hard way, that Nolf's gas tank was superior. In the second two matches, he did a much better job of managing his pace and used his top notch defense and strength to narrowly slip by Nolf. Against Joseph, he does not have a strength advantage. With Joseph continuing to improve as the season went on, I think all it took was the coaching staff, was able to convince Joseph that he could beat this guy and during that entire match you could see Joseph's confidence and no hint of panic after IMar got the initial takedown. He knew he was going win, before they stepped onto the mat.

 

[AldenT]

The one advantage I think IMar had over Nolf, was strength. He learned the hard way, that Nolf's gas tank was superior. In second two matches, he did a much better job of managing his pace and used his top notch defense and strength to narrowly slip by Nolf. Against Joseph, he does not have a strength advantage. With Joseph continuing to improve as the season went on, I think all it took was the coaching staff, was able to convince Joseph that he could beat this guy and during that entire match you could see Joseph's confidence and no hint of panic after IMar got the initial takedown. He knew he was going win, before they stepped onto the mat.

VJ has an incredible gas tank. Toward the end of the first period you could tell that IMar couldn't match his pace, and VJ was matching his strength. Why he locked up high with him is a mystery.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

VJ has an incredible gas tank. Toward the end of the first period you could tell that IMar couldn't match his pace, and VJ was matching his strength. Why he locked up high with him is a mystery.

He locked up high because he got desperate

 

[psualt]

He locked up high because he got desperate

That's exactly what I was going to say. At the end of the second you could see that look in his expression.

 

[jrd23psu]

He locked up high because he got desperate

I think this is what happened as well.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Imar had a bad night. Cenzo a great night. Don't think it has anything to do with respect.
The better wrestler won last night.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Noticed early on that Joseph looked surprisingly loose and relaxed. Definitely more so then IMar. Coaches did a real nice job of getting him in the proper mindset, especially for a freshman in the NCAA finals against one of the best. Then of course he went ahead and took care of business. If I made a list of my top PSU matches of all time, this one is fighting for first. Bravo Cenzo!

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Noticed early on that Joseph looked surprisingly loose and relaxed. Definitely more so then IMar. Coaches did a real nice job of getting him in the proper mindset, especially for a freshman in the NCAA finals against one of the best. Then of course he went ahead and took care of business. If I made a list of my top PSU matches of all time, this one is fighting for first. Bravo Cenzo!

He did. And so did Bo. Bo was night and day different from last year's final.

 

[kps7987]

From a non-wrestler but long time fan the question I have is that both times Imar was pinned he didn't really seem to fight off his back as I see with most guys. Is this a matter of giving up once you know you have been defeated, exhaustion, not being familiar with fighting off your back or having that instinct or my perception being wrong. Would like to hear from others who have been there.

 

[AldenT]

He locked up high because he got desperate

Yeah just watched it again, you're right. IMar was cooked after VJ's second takedown. He looked mentally and physically shot. Noticed specifically the tie up to end the 2nd period; he was leaning heavily on Joseph.

 

[ga.lion]

Remember now, the first time Imar lost to Nolf, it was because he did not respect Nolf enough. That was Imar's own word, right there. IMar, then respected Nolf, and corrected the mistake, and Imar went on to win a championship, showing great heart in the process. His heart was lauded far and wide, including by himself. He told everyone that he wouldn't make that mistake again.

This is his second loss of his career, but it was his third meeting with Cenzo, not his first. What was the problem this time? Disrespect again? No. I don't think so. I don't think disrespect was the reason Imar lost to Cenzo Joseph.

Excuse me, get pinned by Cenzo Joseph.

With Joseph leading 6-5 at the time, not trailing.

I have not heard the reason for the loss yet from Imar, so keep me posted when he reveals the reason.

First all these great wrestlers believe they are going to win every time they step on the mat. Cenzo is one of the few in his class that he can't simply overpower. Last night Cenzo wrestled a great match and pulled off a great move. If they wrestle 10 times I think
I-mar probably wins more than he loses but last night was Cenzo's. Fantastic night.

 

[PSUBluebird]

Imar had a bad night. Cenzo a great night. Don't think it has anything to do with respect.
The better wrestler won last night.

Cenzo made Imar have a bad night.

 

[royboy]

From a non-wrestler but long time fan the question I have is that both times Imar was pinned he didn't really seem to fight off his back as I see with most guys. Is this a matter of giving up once you know you have been defeated, exhaustion, not being familiar with fighting off your back or having that instinct or my perception being wrong. Would like to hear from others who have been there.

Yeah, there's something to that. Imar has succeeded by making a few major explosive moves during matches, ones that require plenty of strength and energy; those moves usually work due to their power and quickness. But, after that, he doesn't seem to have much left. So, to me, he seemed tired, discouraged that what he had done through 2 periods was not enough to guarantee a win, and desperate to turn the tide. Then, when he landed flat on his back, with Cenzo closing his escape routes, Imar succumbed.

 

[maxbo36]

The grind of 5 matches over 3 days got the best of IMAR. Joseph was better conditioned for the tournament as a whole and this proved to be the difference IMO. It is one thing to be in shape to perform in one match during a dual but another to be ready to strap it up time and time again with little recovery time to your body. Watching IMAR on Thursday and Friday, he looked like he had found his gas tank and was ready. Late in the second I turned to my friend and said, "he is spent" Whatever Sanderson and company are doing in the room is working and the kids are buying in.

 

[PSUJim]

The grind of 5 matches over 3 days got the best of IMAR. Joseph was better conditioned for the tournament as a whole and this proved to be the difference IMO. It is one thing to be in shape to perform in one match during a dual but another to be ready to strap it up time and time again with little recovery time to your body. Watching IMAR on Thursday and Friday, he looked like he had found his gas tank and was ready. Late in the second I turned to my friend and said, "he is spent" Whatever Sanderson and company are doing in the room is working and the kids are buying in.

I agree with this 100%. I think that is why we there are times we do better at NCAA's, even if we lose a dual meet or the big 10's. They just seem to be mentally and physically prepared better than other teams when they come off of that 2 week break into NCAA's. One of the interesting things to me as nearly every wrestler ran to the assistant coach first, and then to Cal. Not a slight on Cal at all, as it just goes to show how great of a staff we have. Also, the word "fun" and talking about their teammates came through in nearly every interview as well. Hope this run continues a long time, as it is amazing to watch.

 

[manmythlegend1]

I was not surprised to see VJ Win
I was surprised to see him PIN Imar
I was not surprised to see Imar have many closer matches at 165
I was surprised of IMAR's gas tank after moving up to what seems like a very manageable weight
In the End
I was not surprised VJ has the heart of a champion

 

[Ian]

IMAR had a bad night and met his match in VJ who was ready and not intimidated. It was much like the Taylor-Jenkins battle. IMAR made a move and got nailed. I also agree and made a mental note that he looked gassed at the end of the second period.

Historically, the PSU squad always appears in better condition. Other than the Altons and Rasheed, when have we seen these issues? These guys are relentless. They literally look like they are stalking their opponent. That's coaching, confidence, and conditioning

 

[ggcpsu]

From a non-wrestler but long time fan the question I have is that both times Imar was pinned he didn't really seem to fight off his back as I see with most guys. Is this a matter of giving up once you know you have been defeated, exhaustion, not being familiar with fighting off your back or having that instinct or my perception being wrong. Would like to hear from others who have been there.

Last night Cenzo came down on Imar chest to chest. There was nothing Martinez could do.

 

[lionfan83]

Cenzo wrestled a great match & was the aggressor throughout. I don't believe IMar was over-confident or disrespected Cenzo. All of his comments beforehand acknowledged his respect & that Cenzo attacks/wrestles him differently than "most" guys.

It was not IMar's night, but I have no doubt he'll be back. Should be fun to watch!

 

[amalone]

From a non-wrestler but long time fan the question I have is that both times Imar was pinned he didn't really seem to fight off his back as I see with most guys. Is this a matter of giving up once you know you have been defeated, exhaustion, not being familiar with fighting off your back or having that instinct or my perception being wrong. Would like to hear from others who have been there.

There as NO fight off his back... no bridging as Cenzo was squarely on top of him. I don't think IMAR honestly thinks he could ever be put in that position. He fought feebly from it as in not at all.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

There as NO fight off his back... no bridging as Cenzo was squarely on top of him. I don't think IMAR honestly thinks he could ever be put in that position. He fought feebly from it as in not at all.

He was down a point plus RT-adv going into the desperation upper-body tie / contest...when VinJo won the contest and put him to his back with the "inside trip" (was only a "half-throw" and brilliant wrestling by Joseph - Joseph lethal in those upper-body trip/throw situations, would imagine opponents will stay away from that next year), I think I-Mar was just completely out of gas after losing this last desperate neutral tie / body-lock. IOW, I just don't think he had anything left to even attempt to fight his way off his back from that position.

 

[greenmanRD]

I was surprised Imar forced so much in the 3rd, which led to him getting himself in that double overhook position. Joseph had 1:00 in riding time, a takedown would've given Imar the lead and erased Joseph's advantage, he had plenty of time to be more patient. That said, Joseph wrestled a great match, deserved his win and that was one of my favorite upsets in the tournament ever.

 

[amalone]

He was down a point plus RT-adv going into the desperation upper-body tie / contest...when VinJo won the contest and put him to his back with the "inside trip" (was only a "half-throw" and brilliant wrestling by Joseph - Joseph lethal in those upper-body trip/throw situations, would imagine opponents will stay away from that next year), I think I-Mar was just completely out of gas after losing this last desperate neutral tie / body-lock. IOW, I just don't think he had anything left to even attempt to fight his way off his back from that position.

Guys at the end of matches.... deep into the 3rd period in the National Tourney after 4 bouts fought harder than IMAR. When IMAR gets planted... there is no fight, no bridging. As a wrestler... it's a instant reaction to bridge when put on your back... no matter how tired or late in the match. You at least make the effort. I was only put on my back once in my wrestling life... I pinned myself or I would have bridged hard and instantly. We practiced propping up our bodies with our elbows.

IMAR did nada to fight off his back. Maybe he was spent. I saw little fight in a supposed big dog... the face of NCAA wrestling according to him.

 

[RandyL]

Being the defending champ carries some baggage mentally that contributes to exhaustion.
But he has always seemed to be a “spurt” wrestler (no bad jokes needed here..and that means you LL).
He wrestles in say..a 20-second surge with tremendous quickness and strength, then marshalls his energy waiting for the next one.
If matches were wrestled 20 seconds at a time, then both rest for 30 seconds...Imar might be the greatest kid to ever walk on the mat.

 

[21Guns]

"He is a bully. He likes to hit me in the face during matches, but I didn't care, I was coming for him anyway, and he knew it"

-Vincenzo Joseph-, after the match

 

[Indian rocks rich]

Remember now, the first time Imar lost to Nolf, it was because he did not respect Nolf enough. That was Imar's own word, right there. IMar, then respected Nolf, and corrected the mistake, and Imar went on to win a championship, showing great heart in the process. His heart was lauded far and wide, including by himself. He told everyone that he wouldn't make that mistake again.

This is his second loss of his career, but it was his third meeting with Cenzo, not his first. What was the problem this time? Disrespect again? No. I don't think so. I don't think disrespect was the reason Imar lost to Cenzo Joseph.

Excuse me, get pinned by Cenzo Joseph.

With Joseph leading 6-5 at the time, not trailing.

I have not heard the reason for the loss yet from Imar, so keep me posted when he reveals the reason.

I think imar thought he could out muscle him and was caught off guard with how strong Joseph is and he was just trying to stay neutral to not give up points

 

[AldenT]

I think imar thought he could out muscle him and was caught off guard with how strong Joseph is and he was just trying to stay neutral to not give up points

VJ was a brute. The strength and quickness in that right hip, good lord.

 

[Indian rocks rich]

Being the defending champ carries some baggage mentally that contributes to exhaustion.
But he has always seemed to be a “spurt” wrestler (no bad jokes needed here..and that means you LL).
He wrestles in say..a 20-second surge with tremendous quickness and strength, then marshalls his energy waiting for the next one.
If matches were wrestled 20 seconds at a time, then both rest for 30 seconds...Imar might be the greatest kid to ever walk on the mat.

The last couple years he was the best at scrambling out of jams. The wrestlers had him and somehow he would come out of it. Not last night. Great to watch. Couldn't believe my eyes that happened

 

[NittanyLion84]

I was surprised Imar forced so much in the 3rd, which led to him getting himself in that double overhook position. Joseph had 1:00 in riding time, a takedown would've given Imar the lead and erased Joseph's advantage, he had plenty of time to be more patient. That said, Joseph wrestled a great match, deserved his win and that was one of my favorite upsets in the tournament ever.

IMar had time, but after the 2nd, I think he knew he was gassed and waiting to set something up later in the 3rd was only going make his situation worse. I think he really pressed early in the 3rd, because he knew it was now or never.

 

[crazytoadie]

IMar had time, but after the 2nd, I think he knew he was gassed and waiting to set something up later in the 3rd was only going make his situation worse. I think he really pressed early in the 3rd, because he knew it was now or never.

The exchange at the end of the second where Cenzo pushed IMar back from the boundary by 5 - 10 feet and then turn and push him out at the close was awesome. Cenzo looked fresh, strong, excited, and in the moment...all downhill from there.

 

[21Guns]

I knew Imar was finished, when I saw him walk in slow motion to take the top position at the start of the 3rd, then bend down SLOWLY and get in position. A bunch of people with me during the match all said the same thing, "Imar is gassed!". I knew that look before, I saw it against Jason last year in Champaign midway through the 2nd.

 

[21Guns]

The reason Imar didn't roll through had everything to do with what Cenzo did during the trip. It was just total matrix type stuff: First the trip, which was BY SURPRISE, then the throw off the trip, then the switch from the overhook during the throw, THEN the right arm release(pure genius) just before the IMar inevitable momentum core strength, then the left arm snaps down just inside the elbow of Imar to prevent the throw by, THEN the hips swing to the right from Cenzo, and downward, while the shoulder and elbow hit the mat, but because of all that shit before hand, it's not enough to send him flying over, then the clamp down full weight on Imar, then Imar in total shock, lays there flat, then the crowd goes insane, then the ref hits the mat and Cael and the staff jump into the air, then Censo raises up and rolls back with joy.

And the best part: Mark Perry hangs his head, slowly, and it stays there.

 

[Dogwelder]

The reason Imar didn't roll through had everything to do with what Cenzo did during the trip. It was just total matrix type stuff: First the trip, which was BY SURPRISE, then the throw off the trip, then the switch from the overhook during the throw, THEN the right arm release(pure genius) just before the IMar inevitable momentum core strength, then the left arm snaps down just inside the elbow of Imar to prevent the throw by, THEN the hips swing to the right from Cenzo, and downward, while the shoulder and elbow hit the mat, but because of all that shit before hand, it's not enough to send him flying over, then the clamp down full weight on Imar, then Imar in total shock, lays there flat, then the crowd goes insane, then the ref hits the mat and Cael and the staff jump into the air, then Censo raises up and rolls back with joy.

And the best part: Mark Perry hangs his head, slowly, and it stays there.

The nature of the trip also contributed to less horizontal momentum for IMar to work with. Instead of just immobilizing IMar's leg and then pushing him pretty far horizontally to push him over, Cenzo was able to catch IMar's leg before IMar's leg got set and sweep IMar's leg toward Cenzo and then only needed to push IMar not very far horizontally, for IMar to fall more downward than horizontally-plus-downward. The result is less horizontal momentum to use against Joseph.

 

[dropster45]

The one advantage I think IMar had over Nolf, was strength. He learned the hard way, that Nolf's gas tank was superior. In the second two matches, he did a much better job of managing his pace and used his top notch defense and strength to narrowly slip by Nolf. Against Joseph, he does not have a strength advantage. With Joseph continuing to improve as the season went on, I think all it took was the coaching staff, was able to convince Joseph that he could beat this guy and during that entire match you could see Joseph's confidence and no hint of panic after IMar got the initial takedown. He knew he was going win, before they stepped onto the mat.

I'm with you on the Cenzo strength component. He took what is generally accepted as a - opponent on his heels/finesse move, and executed it as a "muscle move"...albeit against a very strong opponent. That was indeed amazing!

 

[dropster45]

Guys at the end of matches.... deep into the 3rd period in the National Tourney after 4 bouts fought harder than IMAR. When IMAR gets planted... there is no fight, no bridging. As a wrestler... it's a instant reaction to bridge when put on your back... no matter how tired or late in the match. You at least make the effort. I was only put on my back once in my wrestling life... I pinned myself or I would have bridged hard and instantly. We practiced propping up our bodies with our elbows.

IMAR did nada to fight off his back. Maybe he was spent. I saw little fight in a supposed big dog... the face of NCAA wrestling according to him.

You were only put on your back once in your entire wrestling life? Please explain...

 

[Dogwelder]

I'm with you on the Cenzo strength component. He took what is generally accepted as a - opponent on his heels/finesse move, and executed it as a "muscle move"...albeit against a very strong opponent. That was indeed amazing!

If you're talking about the trip, then know that the trip was a gorgeous, precise finesse move. Joseph felt and timed it perfectly. He caught IMar in motion, when IMar was stepping in and gathering himself to try to throw Joseph. IMar's lead leg was not yet fully weighted, and that's why Joseph's trip turned into a foot sweep, which made all the difference in IMar immediately falling to his back without any split-second of back-arching counter-throwing action.

 

[dropster45]

If you're talking about the trip, then know that the trip was a gorgeous, precise finesse move. Joseph felt and timed it perfectly. He caught IMar in motion, when IMar was stepping in and gathering himself to try to throw Joseph. IMar's lead leg was not yet fully weighted, and that's why Joseph's trip turned into a foot sweep, which made all the difference in IMar immediately falling to his back without any split-second of back-arching counter-throwing action.

Yeah, I have to disagree. When a move like that incurs a momentary pause, or said another way, momentum is stopped in its tracks...it becomes a muscle move to finish it/follow thru. But, being that I'm always looking to learn, I'm going to try it both ways on my wife (I think you've seen her pictures) tomorrow and will report back in a timely manner!

 

[amalone]

You were only put on your back once in your entire wrestling life? Please explain...

I pinned myself. Defensive pin in my last match in high school as a senior. I was scooting around my opponent for a last second reversal, I leaned back too far to get around my opponent and I pinned myself. I thought I had pinned my opponent.

In 10 years of wrestling from 8 to 18... I had never been put on my back. Never. But we practiced getting off our back, if the we were ever unfortunate to be put on our backs. We would be put in drills where our opponents had us in every kind of pinning combination and we had to either fight the grip or fight off our backs. It's a part of every wrestlers practice regimen.