Discussion of the potential of the PSU WR corps, article on Wallace and Cliff....

[GregInPitt]

This article pretty well sums up my feelings about the PSU WR's. It's great that Franklin see's Wallace and Clifford having good Fall camps and establishing themselves as the two top options in the passing game, but both Wallace and Clifford have been devoid of big plays to this point in their PSU careers.

So I'm in the camp that believes Flemming will have to get on the same page with Allar, OR another WR on the roster will need to step up and become the deep threat that the offense will need to get to win the toughest games on the schedule and get to the playoff.

The question is who that 4th and 5th WR's will be. I believe that if any of the young carry over WR's had that talent they would have gotting some plays on the field and plays called for them last season. The only other deep threat seems so be Evans, who has gotten targeted deep a few times. Saunders seems to be another slot WR who performs similar to Clifford. I'm more hopeful that Denmark can pass up some of the carry over WR's (Ivey, Johnson,...) as the season progresses and get into the rotation and end up making some deep catches.

The highlight of Flemming in the article abusing Rutgers does show that Fleming could end up as the deep threat the PSU offense needs as well.

If Trey Wallace and Liam Clifford are Drew Allar’s top targets, Penn State’s offense is in trouble

The Penn State offense will look much different under Andy Kotelnicki in 2024. This season won’t just bring a fresh new scheme from an innovative play-caller, b

victorybellrings.com

 

[lazydave841]

I think availability is huge for Wallace and Fleming. It's tough to put any numbers up when you are hurt and don't play.

By most accounts, Wallace is probably the WR1 and is going to take a big step up AS LONG AS he remains healthy. He won't be KJ Hamler, but he could be like a Chris Godwin and move the sticks.

Fleming could be a similar style of player, again, if he is HEALTHY. I don't think Franklin or Kotelnicki are going to coddle him and overtly praise him. He's gotta earn it on the field.

Clifford was behind the 8 ball with our fan base because of his last name the moment he stepped foot on campus. If he played for WVU, we'd be reading Wes Welker comments.

I think Denmark could work his way into playing. Everybody who films the WRs shows him. He looks good in very limited footage.

Evans will get some balls thrown his way, but he's gotta start catching the ball.

 

[LMTLION]

Clifford showed signs last year that he has the potential to develop into a nice possession-type slot wr. Wallace shows potential he can be a burner, if he can stay healthy. There is a lot of potential out there. If we can go 1 for 2 between Fleming and Wallace staying healthy the entire year, we will be ok.

 

[NittanyLionRoar]

Dear lord, how do these beat writers, who specialize only in PSU football, put a picture of a guy who is definitely NOT Liam Clifford as the feature and call him Liam Clifford lol.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think availability is huge for Wallace and Fleming. It's tough to put any numbers up when you are hurt and don't play.

By most accounts, Wallace is probably the WR1 and is going to take a big step up AS LONG AS he remains healthy. He won't be KJ Hamler, but he could be like a Chris Godwin and move the sticks.

Fleming could be a similar style of player, again, if he is HEALTHY. I don't think Franklin or Kotelnicki are going to coddle him and overtly praise him. He's gotta earn it on the field.

Clifford was behind the 8 ball with our fan base because of his last name the moment he stepped foot on campus. If he played for WVU, we'd be reading Wes Welker comments.

I think Denmark could work his way into playing. Everybody who films the WRs shows him. He looks good in very limited footage.

Evans will get some balls thrown his way, but he's gotta start catching the ball.

I just can't see Wallace being like Godwin. Godwin was and is now in the NFL a physical WR that makes plays down the field. At PSU he turned 50-50 balls into 80-20 balls. Wallace on the other hand has show very minimal down field ability. Hope I'm wrong.

Wallace seems to have been very consistent in Fall camp and been identified as a starter, but with his history of being mainly a short gain target can he really start making plays down the field and turn in the chunk plays that would take the offense to the next level. The way ARob did, the way Godwin did, and even Blacknal did.... I look for Fleming, Evans or Denmark to emerge as PSU's much needed down field threat, but someone has to step up and I guess it could be Wallace as well as anyone......

 

[ryoder1]

This article pretty well sums up my feelings about the PSU WR's. It's great that Franklin see's Wallace and Clifford having good Fall camps and establishing themselves as the two top options in the passing game, but both Wallace and Clifford have been devoid of big plays to this point in their PSU careers.

So I'm in the camp that believes Flemming will have to get on the same page with Allar, OR another WR on the roster will need to step up and become the deep threat that the offense will need to get to win the toughest games on the schedule and get to the playoff.

The question is who that 4th and 5th WR's will be. I believe that if any of the young carry over WR's had that talent they would have gotting some plays on the field and plays called for them last season. The only other deep threat seems so be Evans, who has gotten targeted deep a few times. Saunders seems to be another slot WR who performs similar to Clifford. I'm more hopeful that Denmark can pass up some of the carry over WR's (Ivey, Johnson,...) as the season progresses and get into the rotation and end up making some deep catches.

The highlight of Flemming in the article abusing Rutgers does show that Fleming could end up as the deep threat the PSU offense needs as well.

If Trey Wallace and Liam Clifford are Drew Allar’s top targets, Penn State’s offense is in trouble

The Penn State offense will look much different under Andy Kotelnicki in 2024. This season won’t just bring a fresh new scheme from an innovative play-caller, b

victorybellrings.com

This article does not give me confidence that our WR room will be much better this season. I was hoping Fleming would be our clear #1. Didn't we go after him with that thought in mind? What has happened? He was pretty good at OSU and part of a stacked WR room. So the fact that he was a #3 behind MHJ and Egbuka was not a shocker. Now we hear he can't beat out Liam Clifford? I like Clifford but c'mon man this is Penn State we have to be able to produce a bona fide #1 WR who can dominate a secondary by getting open reliably, stretch the field, catch TD passes then ultimately be drafted in the NFL.

Fleming has been in the program since what, March, maybe earlier? Now we hear reports that he just is not fitting into Kotelnicki's system? What was going on in the spring, the summer?? Wouldn't this have been a top priority for Kotelnicki and Franklin to ensure Fleming is in synch with the playbook and with Allar? What the heck?? This seems as much or more about coaching than about Fleming. Really frustrating that we can't get this WR room figured out. It's like we have A or B position groups all over and this one is a D or F. And we are only as strong as our weakest link.

I won't panic yet although this message sounds like I am but just super frustrated after reading this.

What about Evans or Saunders?? Both highly recruited and what now? What is going on with our passing game? We change OCs, have a 5 star QB yet apparently our WR room is still average to below average. This article is like a bad practical joke....the guy you thought would be #1 is a bust and therefore by process of elimination the two tallest midgets are Wallace and Clifford. Oh and they have done very little in their careers. Yeah I know Wallace was hurt but he was not exactly lighting it up before that.

I would feel differently if the article was more about how Wallace and Clifford have been spectacular in camp and have really upped their game. But I don't get that at all. From reading this I get that Fleming is a disappointment and therefore we have two other guys who will be our top two WRs. Not because they are really good or demonstrated significant improvement but because everyone else is not good and at least they are not terrible. Wonderful.

I am stunned not one WR can emerge. Maybe they will but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe Denmark will be our guy but he is so young and that is not happening this year. I am trying to stay positive but man we suffered through how pathetic the passing game was last year and therefore cannot beat Ohio State or Michigan and now I read this. Just seems like we are ready to watch the same bad movie all over again.

Venting over, carry on.

 

[Lion84]

I think Denmark will be the break out player this fall - he catches everything thrown his way and may not be a burner but has decent speed.

 

[SLion]

Geez, talking down Fleming before he even steps on field. People expecting we are getting 5 star MHJr level player from OSU should temper expectations. If he can make some tough catches, block, physically hustle then we already ahead of last year. He does not need 1K yards. That said, Allar stayed even with lack of talent at WR along with losing his OC who recruited him specifically. Those two were tight. Allar could have transferred anywhere to top level P5 program with perhaps better WR talent. This is obviously his last year before NFL. I believe this says something about situation. He must believe that there is enough to showcase his talents to pros. We shall see

 

[GregInPitt]

This article does not give me confidence that our WR room will be much better this season. I was hoping Fleming would be our clear #1. Didn't we go after him with that thought in mind? What has happened? He was pretty good at OSU and part of a stacked WR room. So the fact that he was a #3 behind MHJ and Egbuka was not a shocker. Now we hear he can't beat out Liam Clifford? I like Clifford but c'mon man this is Penn State we have to be able to produce a bona fide #1 WR who can dominate a secondary by getting open reliably, stretch the field, catch TD passes then ultimately be drafted in the NFL.

Fleming has been in the program since what, March, maybe earlier? Now we hear reports that he just is not fitting into Kotelnicki's system? What was going on in the spring, the summer?? Wouldn't this have been a top priority for Kotelnicki and Franklin to ensure Fleming is in synch with the playbook and with Allar? What the heck?? This seems as much or more about coaching than about Fleming. Really frustrating that we can't get this WR room figured out. It's like we have A or B position groups all over and this one is a D or F. And we are only as strong as our weakest link.

I won't panic yet although this message sounds like I am but just super frustrated after reading this.

What about Evans or Saunders?? Both highly recruited and what now? What is going on with our passing game? We change OCs, have a 5 star QB yet apparently our WR room is still average to below average. This article is like a bad practical joke....the guy you thought would be #1 is a bust and therefore by process of elimination the two tallest midgets are Wallace and Clifford. Oh and they have done very little in their careers. Yeah I know Wallace was hurt but he was not exactly lighting it up before that.

I would feel differently if the article was more about how Wallace and Clifford have been spectacular in camp and have really upped their game. But I don't get that at all. From reading this I get that Fleming is a disappointment and therefore we have two other guys who will be our top two WRs. Not because they are really good or demonstrated significant improvement but because everyone else is not good and at least they are not terrible. Wonderful.

I am stunned not one WR can emerge. Maybe they will but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe Denmark will be our guy but he is so young and that is not happening this year. I am trying to stay positive but man we suffered through how pathetic the passing game was last year and therefore cannot beat Ohio State or Michigan and now I read this. Just seems like we are ready to watch the same bad movie all over again.

Venting over, carry on.

I share your concern, but I'm not writing Flemming off just because the the "analysis" of that article. From the article:

James Franklin responded by landing former Ohio State receiver Julian Fleming, the top recruit in Pennsylvania in 2020. However, the reports out of fall camp have all pointed to Harrison Wallace III and Liam Clifford as the top targets on the outside.

“If you asked him, I’d bet he would say, ‘Gosh, I kind of started slow,” Kotelnicki recently told reporters of Fleming, the most experienced player in Penn State’s wide receiver room, before noting that “he’s done a great job” in the later stages of fall camp.

"Reports out of camp" seem to be a key phrase here. I attribute some of the negative aspects of the article regarding Fleming as more of Franklin's slow playing new players, and his talking up of Wallace and Clifford as more of his tendancy to talk up players that have been in his program a few years.

Regarding the metrics the article used to evaluate Fleming, the majority of the negative I believe is due to Fleming lining up with a couple first round draft choice talents on every play he played at oh-high-ya. Naturally the #1 and #2 WR's got most of the looks and throws, so flemming's "yards per route run" isn't going to be much of a highlight for him. Remember last year when the oh-high-ya QB basically didn't look for any WR other than Harrison on about every play? But that doesn't change the fact that Fleming started all those games at oh-high-ya when they had 6-8 WR's on their roster with a higher high school rating and more talent than any WR on the PSU roster.

So I look for Fleming to have a nice year for PSU and unless Wallace has more down the field potential than what we've seen so far I look for Fleming to emerge as PSU's #1 WR as the year goes along.

And I also see the WR roster as containing more depth than last season with Saunders and Evans being a year older, experienced and stronger making them more likely to take advantage of the opportunities they get. And from what we've heard so far Denmark may be the most ready for a true freshman contribution than any WR PSU has had in a few years.

Cheer up!

 

[RickinDayton]

This article does not give me confidence that our WR room will be much better this season. I was hoping Fleming would be our clear #1. Didn't we go after him with that thought in mind? What has happened? He was pretty good at OSU and part of a stacked WR room. So the fact that he was a #3 behind MHJ and Egbuka was not a shocker. Now we hear he can't beat out Liam Clifford? I like Clifford but c'mon man this is Penn State we have to be able to produce a bona fide #1 WR who can dominate a secondary by getting open reliably, stretch the field, catch TD passes then ultimately be drafted in the NFL.

Fleming has been in the program since what, March, maybe earlier? Now we hear reports that he just is not fitting into Kotelnicki's system? What was going on in the spring, the summer?? Wouldn't this have been a top priority for Kotelnicki and Franklin to ensure Fleming is in synch with the playbook and with Allar? What the heck?? This seems as much or more about coaching than about Fleming. Really frustrating that we can't get this WR room figured out. It's like we have A or B position groups all over and this one is a D or F. And we are only as strong as our weakest link.

I won't panic yet although this message sounds like I am but just super frustrated after reading this.

What about Evans or Saunders?? Both highly recruited and what now? What is going on with our passing game? We change OCs, have a 5 star QB yet apparently our WR room is still average to below average. This article is like a bad practical joke....the guy you thought would be #1 is a bust and therefore by process of elimination the two tallest midgets are Wallace and Clifford. Oh and they have done very little in their careers. Yeah I know Wallace was hurt but he was not exactly lighting it up before that.

I would feel differently if the article was more about how Wallace and Clifford have been spectacular in camp and have really upped their game. But I don't get that at all. From reading this I get that Fleming is a disappointment and therefore we have two other guys who will be our top two WRs. Not because they are really good or demonstrated significant improvement but because everyone else is not good and at least they are not terrible. Wonderful.

I am stunned not one WR can emerge. Maybe they will but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe Denmark will be our guy but he is so young and that is not happening this year. I am trying to stay positive but man we suffered through how pathetic the passing game was last year and therefore cannot beat Ohio State or Michigan and now I read this. Just seems like we are ready to watch the same bad movie all over again.

Venting over, carry on.

I think PSU has a WR coaching problem. If Fleming was #3 @ OSU he should be #1 at PSU and it's up to the coaches to work that. I think CJF made a mistake getting rid of the previous WR coach (Sheffield) who at least had the WRs running correct patterns and catching the ball.

 

[RickinDayton]

I share your concern, but I'm not writing Flemming off just because the the "analysis" of that article. From the article:

James Franklin responded by landing former Ohio State receiver Julian Fleming, the top recruit in Pennsylvania in 2020. However, the reports out of fall camp have all pointed to Harrison Wallace III and Liam Clifford as the top targets on the outside.

“If you asked him, I’d bet he would say, ‘Gosh, I kind of started slow,” Kotelnicki recently told reporters of Fleming, the most experienced player in Penn State’s wide receiver room, before noting that “he’s done a great job” in the later stages of fall camp.

"Reports out of camp" seem to be a key phrase here. I attribute some of the negative aspects of the article regarding Fleming as more of Franklin's slow playing new players, and his talking up of Wallace and Clifford as more of his tendancy to talk up players that have been in his program a few years.

Regarding the metrics the article used to evaluate Fleming, the majority of the negative I believe is due to Fleming lining up with a couple first round draft choice talents on every play he played at oh-high-ya. Naturally the #1 and #2 WR's got most of the looks and throws, so flemming's "yards per route run" isn't going to be much of a highlight for him. Remember last year when the oh-high-ya QB basically didn't look for any WR other than Harrison on about every play? But that doesn't change the fact that Fleming started all those games at oh-high-ya when they had 6-8 WR's on their roster with a higher high school rating and more talent than any WR on the PSU roster.

So I look for Fleming to have a nice year for PSU and unless Wallace has more down the field potential than what we've seen so far I look for Fleming to emerge as PSU's #1 WR as the year goes along.

And I also see the WR roster as containing more depth than last season with Saunders and Evans being a year older, experienced and stronger making them more likely to take advantage of the opportunities they get. And from what we've heard so far Denmark may be the most ready for a true freshman contribution than any WR PSU has had in a few years.

Cheer up!

I really want Flemng to do well. The offense needs him and not just as blocker. I remain concerned about the WR coach. He should be on a very short leash.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

I think PSU has a WR coaching problem. If Fleming was #3 @ OSU he should be #1 at PSU and it's up to the coaches to work that. I think CJF made a mistake getting rid of the previous WR coach (Sheffield) who at least had the WRs running correct patterns and catching the ball.

Stubblefield!? So, good you cannot remember his name.

Good grief! Please get the season going. The arm chair analysis in this thread is tragic. God have mercy and put an end to this.

 

[GregInPitt]

I really want Flemng to do well. The offense needs him and not just as blocker. I remain concerned about the WR coach. He should be on a very short leash.

"short leash" doesn't seem appropriate entering a new season. Hagans now has some players in the WR that he actually recruited and has had some time to develop the players in the program so this could be a make or break season for him. But I don't believe negative talk about any coach serves any positive purpose during a season and hope the media just lays off him and give him and the WR's a chance to show they can perform this season.

 

[blair10]

Man, I hope you guys turn out to be correct with all your enthusiasm and very high WR hopes. I really do.

I just don’t see it. Think about it.

The number one WR is Wallace who has a grand total of 2 TDs in his entire career. No offense to Wallace, he is no where near the level of former Nittany Lion great Chris Godwin.

Fleming is getting a bad rap because some fans have unreasonable expectations. If you look at his career, Fleming was mostly the 3rd or 4th WR option at Ohio State. Not great. Now, he can’t make the starting lineup in what is one of the worst WR rooms in the B1G conference. I think Fleming has always been an ok WR, but he has never been known as being dangerous or a deep threat. He is just an OK WR. Expecting more is just not realistic.

I do hope Clifford has vastly improved from last year. I remember him getting completely locked down against Ohio State last year.

We won’t know how good the WRs are until the second half of the season because the first 6 games will be against some very weak defenses.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I share your concern, but I'm not writing Flemming off just because the the "analysis" of that article. From the article:

James Franklin responded by landing former Ohio State receiver Julian Fleming, the top recruit in Pennsylvania in 2020. However, the reports out of fall camp have all pointed to Harrison Wallace III and Liam Clifford as the top targets on the outside.

“If you asked him, I’d bet he would say, ‘Gosh, I kind of started slow,” Kotelnicki recently told reporters of Fleming, the most experienced player in Penn State’s wide receiver room, before noting that “he’s done a great job” in the later stages of fall camp.

"Reports out of camp" seem to be a key phrase here. I attribute some of the negative aspects of the article regarding Fleming as more of Franklin's slow playing new players, and his talking up of Wallace and Clifford as more of his tendancy to talk up players that have been in his program a few years.

Regarding the metrics the article used to evaluate Fleming, the majority of the negative I believe is due to Fleming lining up with a couple first round draft choice talents on every play he played at oh-high-ya. Naturally the #1 and #2 WR's got most of the looks and throws, so flemming's "yards per route run" isn't going to be much of a highlight for him. Remember last year when the oh-high-ya QB basically didn't look for any WR other than Harrison on about every play? But that doesn't change the fact that Fleming started all those games at oh-high-ya when they had 6-8 WR's on their roster with a higher high school rating and more talent than any WR on the PSU roster.

So I look for Fleming to have a nice year for PSU and unless Wallace has more down the field potential than what we've seen so far I look for Fleming to emerge as PSU's #1 WR as the year goes along.

And I also see the WR roster as containing more depth than last season with Saunders and Evans being a year older, experienced and stronger making them more likely to take advantage of the opportunities they get. And from what we've heard so far Denmark may be the most ready for a true freshman contribution than any WR PSU has had in a few years.

Cheer up!

I have a feeling that the receivers will surprise people and have a good year….providing they stay healthy. Wallace, Evans, Fleming, Clifford, Saunders are all talented. And that walkon with burner speed……Blacknell?….. should be given the chance on a couple deep balls to keep d backs back and show off the Allar Cannon.

Coach K’s offense should help a lot. He will create opportunities. And using backs and TEs as receivers will be a big + for the wideouts.

Could be a couple games before everything clicks but could be scary fun to watch.😻

 

[ryoder1]

Man, I hope you guys turn out to be correct with all your enthusiasm and very high WR hopes. I really do.

I just don’t see it. Think about it.

The number one WR is Wallace who has a grand total of 2 TDs in his entire career. No offense to Wallace, he is no where near the level of former Nittany Lion great Chris Godwin.

Fleming is getting a bad rap because some fans have unreasonable expectations. If you look at his career, Fleming was mostly the 3rd or 4th WR option at Ohio State. Not great. Now, he can’t make the starting lineup in what is one of the worst WR rooms in the B1G conference. I think Fleming has always been an ok WR, but he has never been known as being dangerous or a deep threat. He is just an OK WR. Expecting more is just not realistic.

I do hope Clifford has vastly improved from last year. I remember him getting completely locked down against Ohio State last year.

We won’t know how good the WRs are until the second half of the season because the first 6 games will be against some very weak defenses.

Fleming was a 5 star and was number 3 at OSU because of their ridiculously loaded WR room. l don't think he is just another hum drum "ok" WR. He has talent and I was expecting him to be our #1. Not unreasonable. Not expecting him to be a MHJ or an Egbuka. What is frustrating is it appears he is our #3 WR and has not caught on or clicked with our offense. This speaks to coaching if he does not perform.

With that said, I am hopeful the other guys have improved and can make big contributions. Excited about the buzz around Denmark. He could have a bright future.

 

[lazydave841]

Fleming could still be our #1 WR. We haven't seen a single down of PSU football yet. The opinions based on 15 minute viewing sessions are not end all be all.

I'd much rather hear our WRs have improved and things be ho hum about our transfer (who I'm sure Franklin has challenged big time) than "Fleming is obviously WR1 day 1 in this room".

 

[ryoder1]

Fleming could still be our #1 WR. We haven't seen a single down of PSU football yet. The opinions based on 15 minute viewing sessions are not end all be all.

I'd much rather hear our WRs have improved and things be ho hum about our transfer (who I'm sure Franklin has challenged big time) than "Fleming is obviously WR1 day 1 in this room".

Yeah I hope he is our #1 and produces on the field. And yes, hopefully the legacy guys have made good improvements. I'm simply reacting to the negativity from this article which is frustrating.

-Fleming is a disappointment
-No mention that the other guys have improved

Could there be a worse scenario than that?

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

We will miss KLS is my prediction

 

[bdroc]

This article pretty well sums up my feelings about the PSU WR's. It's great that Franklin see's Wallace and Clifford having good Fall camps and establishing themselves as the two top options in the passing game, but both Wallace and Clifford have been devoid of big plays to this point in their PSU careers.

So I'm in the camp that believes Flemming will have to get on the same page with Allar, OR another WR on the roster will need to step up and become the deep threat that the offense will need to get to win the toughest games on the schedule and get to the playoff.

The question is who that 4th and 5th WR's will be. I believe that if any of the young carry over WR's had that talent they would have gotting some plays on the field and plays called for them last season. The only other deep threat seems so be Evans, who has gotten targeted deep a few times. Saunders seems to be another slot WR who performs similar to Clifford. I'm more hopeful that Denmark can pass up some of the carry over WR's (Ivey, Johnson,...) as the season progresses and get into the rotation and end up making some deep catches.

The highlight of Flemming in the article abusing Rutgers does show that Fleming could end up as the deep threat the PSU offense needs as well.

If Trey Wallace and Liam Clifford are Drew Allar’s top targets, Penn State’s offense is in trouble

The Penn State offense will look much different under Andy Kotelnicki in 2024. This season won’t just bring a fresh new scheme from an innovative play-caller, b

victorybellrings.com

I think Evans has to come up big for PSU

 

[RickinDayton]

Stubblefield!? So, good you cannot remember his name.

Good grief! Please get the season going. The arm chair analysis in this thread is tragic. God have mercy and put an end to this.

So I misspelled his name. He was a better coach than the current WR coach.

 

[RickinDayton]

"short leash" doesn't seem appropriate entering a new season. Hagans now has some players in the WR that he actually recruited and has had some time to develop the players in the program so this could be a make or break season for him. But I don't believe negative talk about any coach serves any positive purpose during a season and hope the media just lays off him and give him and the WR's a chance to show they can perform this season.

We shall see. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

So I misspelled his name. He was a better coach than the current WR coach.

That's why he was fired along with refusing to travel to recruit the highest quality and best fit recruits. That is also why he is wide receivers coach for Air force now. 85 yds per game. The #1 WR coach in the history of the game.

 

[MacNit2.0]

Man, I hope you guys turn out to be correct with all your enthusiasm and very high WR hopes. I really do.

I just don’t see it. Think about it.

The number one WR is Wallace who has a grand total of 2 TDs in his entire career. No offense to Wallace, he is no where near the level of former Nittany Lion great Chris Godwin.

Fleming is getting a bad rap because some fans have unreasonable expectations. If you look at his career, Fleming was mostly the 3rd or 4th WR option at Ohio State. Not great. Now, he can’t make the starting lineup in what is one of the worst WR rooms in the B1G conference. I think Fleming has always been an ok WR, but he has never been known as being dangerous or a deep threat. He is just an OK WR. Expecting more is just not realistic.

I do hope Clifford has vastly improved from last year. I remember him getting completely locked down against Ohio State last year.

We won’t know how good the WRs are until the second half of the season because the first 6 games will be against some very weak defenses.

Has a Fleming not starting been confirmed?

 

[africamurphy]

Best comment I heard this pre-season..."This year's WR are where last year's OL was" Enough talk. Put something up on the field.

My top reasons for optimism?
1. Bruce Feldman (connected in coaching circles) has heard that Tre Wallace is a bona fide WR1. When healthy. Will this be the year he stays on the field?
2. Clifford and Evans and Saunders are a year older. WIth the same QB1. And the same WR coach. Those are all tangible reasons for hope that they'll take a step forward.
3. Tyseer Denmark. True froshes do make splashes from time to time...and I don't think he'll start before October, but if he shines when given the chance, he could be a factor.
4. Julian Fleming. If healthy, he's a starting WR at a top 5 national program (OSU). He might not be flashy like Emoku or Harrison...but he's a blocker and very good receiver.
5. Drew Allar is a returning starter.

My main reason for pessimism?
1. 2023

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Best comment I heard this pre-season..."This year's WR are where last year's OL was" Enough talk. Put something up on the field.

My top reasons for optimism?
1. Bruce Feldman (connected in coaching circles) has heard that Tre Wallace is a bona fide WR1. When healthy. Will this be the year he stays on the field?
2. Clifford and Evans and Saunders are a year older. WIth the same QB1. And the same WR coach. Those are all tangible reasons for hope that they'll take a step forward.
3. Tyseer Denmark. True froshes do make splashes from time to time...and I don't think he'll start before October, but if he shines when given the chance, he could be a factor.
4. Julian Fleming. If healthy, he's a starting WR at a top 5 national program (OSU). He might not be flashy like Emoku or Harrison...but he's a blocker and very good receiver.
5. Drew Allar is a returning starter.

My main reason for pessimism?
1. 2023

Yes, this year is never last year which most of the posters here somehow forget.

 

[ryoder1]

Best comment I heard this pre-season..."This year's WR are where last year's OL was" Enough talk. Put something up on the field.

My top reasons for optimism?
1. Bruce Feldman (connected in coaching circles) has heard that Tre Wallace is a bona fide WR1. When healthy. Will this be the year he stays on the field?
2. Clifford and Evans and Saunders are a year older. WIth the same QB1. And the same WR coach. Those are all tangible reasons for hope that they'll take a step forward.
3. Tyseer Denmark. True froshes do make splashes from time to time...and I don't think he'll start before October, but if he shines when given the chance, he could be a factor.
4. Julian Fleming. If healthy, he's a starting WR at a top 5 national program (OSU). He might not be flashy like Emoku or Harrison...but he's a blocker and very good receiver.
5. Drew Allar is a returning starter.

My main reason for pessimism?
1. 2023

I had not heard your #1 but why has he not shown this yet? Usually bona fide #1s make an impact when given the opportunity.

#2-4 I agree with and sure hope is accurate.

#5 needs some meat to it. As a returning starter Allar has more maturity, more confidence with a better OC which will lead to more poise in games, better decision making and overall better play. Let's hope for that!

My main reason for pessimism:

Yes, 2023 was lousy but to be more specific...Kotelnicki still has a boss named Franklin so Yurcich didn't work but Kotelnicki will? Don't know.

 

[africamurphy]

I forgot #6...

Kotelnicki might be the real deal. Guy just wins everywhere he goes...and offense is his thing.

We saw what Moorhead could do once he got going in 2016...

 

[ryoder1]

I forgot #6...

Kotelnicki might be the real deal. Guy just wins everywhere he goes...and offense is his thing.

We saw what Moorhead could do once he got going in 2016...

We had bad key losses under Moorhead and he had better WR talent. Also see my earlier post about reason for pessimism.

 

[africamurphy]

I had not heard your #1 but why has he not shown this yet? Usually bona fide #1s make an impact when given the opportunity.



#5 needs some meat to it. As a returning starter Allar has more maturity, more confidence with a better OC which will lead to more poise in games, better decision making and overall better play. Let's hope for that!

Injuries. He's had that "starting" buzz around his for 2 seasons...but he's always injured. Like...Noah Cain level of unluckiness....
I still want to see it myself, like you. But it's a plausible theory...

As for Allar, he could be the next Hackenberg. But, it's worth remembering, Kerry Collins was on the bench in his 2nd and 3rd year in State College, not starting like Allar. Didn't he NOT secure the starting job until the middle of the 1993 season, his rsJR year? Not sure...but my point is, the book hasn't been written on Drew's development yet.

 

[lazydave841]

Has a Fleming not starting been confirmed?

No.

24/7 PSU site put out their projected depth chart. It shows Fleming and Evans with an OR designation at WR2.

 

[lazydave841]

We had bad key losses under Moorhead and he had better WR talent

Nobody went into '16 thinking we had this excellent roster of talent.

Saquon Hamilton and Godwin were known, but we had a ton of other questions...

-Trace becoming the starter. Beat out Tommy Stevens and many didn't believe it/agree with it.
-Gesicki was an undersized TE with a lot of drops on his stat sheet.
-OL was weak, zero depth

After Michigan curbstomped them, and 3 quarters+ of futility with Minnesota, this team looked headed for mediocrity.

And they turned it around for a season and a half of very good offensive football.

 

[RickinDayton]

That's why he was fired along with refusing to travel to recruit the highest quality and best fit recruits. That is also why he is wide receivers coach for Air force now. 85 yds per game. The #1 WR coach in the history of the game.

OK. I was unaware he was a drag on recruiting. That would obviously be a fireable offense. He was still a good WR coach. Air Force's offense is totally run-centric, therefore they don't pass much.

 

[Crusher1950]

This should be fun this watching this mess of wide receivers that can’t catch or run

 

[Hotshoe]

I think PSU has a WR coaching problem. If Fleming was #3 @ OSU he should be #1 at PSU and it's up to the coaches to work that. I think CJF made a mistake getting rid of the previous WR coach (Sheffield) who at least had the WRs running correct patterns and catching the ball.

No, Penn State had a massive OC problem, and he is gone.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

OK. I was unaware he was a drag on recruiting. That would obviously be a fireable offense. He was still a good WR coach. Air Force's offense is totally run-centric, therefore they don't pass much.

That's why they hired him. They didn't read wide receivers coach.

 

[voltz99]

Best comment I heard this pre-season..."This year's WR are where last year's OL was" Enough talk. Put something up on the field.

My top reasons for optimism?
1. Bruce Feldman (connected in coaching circles) has heard that Tre Wallace is a bona fide WR1. When healthy. Will this be the year he stays on the field?
2. Clifford and Evans and Saunders are a year older. WIth the same QB1. And the same WR coach. Those are all tangible reasons for hope that they'll take a step forward.
3. Tyseer Denmark. True froshes do make splashes from time to time...and I don't think he'll start before October, but if he shines when given the chance, he could be a factor.
4. Julian Fleming. If healthy, he's a starting WR at a top 5 national program (OSU). He might not be flashy like Emoku or Harrison...but he's a blocker and very good receiver.
5. Drew Allar is a returning starter.

My main reason for pessimism?
1. 2023

6. RBs can catch the ball.
7. TEs can catch the ball.
8. We are deep at rb and te.
9. martin and Reynolds are probably going to catch passes. Hopefully a lot. If they were both listed at wr, the wr room gets stronger. Same team.

 

[SLion]

Best comment I heard this pre-season..."This year's WR are where last year's OL was" Enough talk. Put something up on the field.

My top reasons for optimism?
1. Bruce Feldman (connected in coaching circles) has heard that Tre Wallace is a bona fide WR1. When healthy. Will this be the year he stays on the field?
2. Clifford and Evans and Saunders are a year older. WIth the same QB1. And the same WR coach. Those are all tangible reasons for hope that they'll take a step forward.
3. Tyseer Denmark. True froshes do make splashes from time to time...and I don't think he'll start before October, but if he shines when given the chance, he could be a factor.
4. Julian Fleming. If healthy, he's a starting WR at a top 5 national program (OSU). He might not be flashy like Emoku or Harrison...but he's a blocker and very good receiver.
5. Drew Allar is a returning starter.

My main reason for pessimism?
1. 2023

Point #3- had not watched his highlights but impressive list of offers AL, OSU, UM, GA, ND etc..JC for a 3 star talent. His reel is impressive. I really love his off snap movement. Kid has some juke to create separation. That is missing from WR group lately. I am not seeing elite speed, certainly smaller side too at 5'10, 177. My fear is another KLS type when we really need playmaker like Hamler/Dotson/Washington type.

 

[bdgan]

Point #3- had not watched his highlights but impressive list of offers AL, OSU, UM, GA, ND etc..JC for a 3 star talent. His reel is impressive. I really love his off snap movement. Kid has some juke to create separation. That is missing from WR group lately. I am not seeing elite speed, certainly smaller side too at 5'10, 177. My fear is another KLS type when we really need playmaker like Hamler/Dotson/Washington type.

I think some are overly optimistic about Denmark. He was a consensus 3* prospect and rated outside the top 500. He also only registered in June. We've had 3* prospects excel in the past. Butler was a walk on and he wound up as a 3rd round draft pick. But those kids don't come along very often. I would be extremely surprised if Denmak sees a lot of reps this year. In fact I hope he doesn't because that means a lot of other WRs have performed poorly.

 

[proud2bpsufan]

I love hearing the optimistic side of this debate, but I have to take a wait and see or seeing is believing approach to the WR's this season. I'll be less shocked if they end up producing like last year than if they end up being a strength of the offense.
Here's to HOPING!