Evan Wick

[El-Jefe]

If if if. It’s always ”if” with him. What if Taylor never faces Jenkins and Dake? What if Hall never faces Zahid? What if Bo doesn’t try to throw Martin? Ultimately, resumes are judged by results, not ifs.

Are you arguing Mark Hall is a choke artist?

BTW, you're inadvertently making my point for me: Marinelli is not Taylor, is not Hall, is not Bo, is not Zain, is not Jason, is not Ruth, is not Spencer, etc. Go on down the list.

He doesn't lose at nationals because he chokes. He loses because he's not as good as those guys.

People put too much stock into #1 seeds. Having the best regular season =/= being the best wrestler.

 

[mjmirv]

I’m not the one who started dealing in hypotheticals. Hall, Taylor, and Bo are all time greats who had very bitter defeats at NCAAs but maximized other opportunities. That’s why no one has debates about them choking like they do with Alex.

It’s clear you factor in ifs when your debate resumes. I’ll stick to results. To each their own 🤷‍♂️

 

[El-Jefe]

I’m not the one who started dealing in hypotheticals. Hall, Taylor, and Bo are all time greats who had very bitter defeats at NCAAs but maximized other opportunities. That’s why no one has debates about them choking like they do with Alex.

It’s clear you factor in ifs when your debate resumes. I’ll stick to results. To each their own 🤷‍♂️

It's clear you attach labels to guys for the artificial reason of having the best regular season. To each their own.

Let's call choking what it is: when somebody competes differently under the bright lights. The evidence with Marinelli directly contradicts this -- the evidence being the scores of his matches.

 

[KCLion]

I think it is called "poleyedome" ie.... Pole-I-do-me.... New word Webster's.....next edition

Some of us need a third, 😂

 

[mjmirv]

It's clear you attach labels to guys for the artificial reason of having the best regular season. To each their own.

Let's call choking what it is: when somebody competes differently under the bright lights. The evidence with Marinelli directly contradicts this -- the evidence being the scores of his matches.

 

[Kale_yeah]

If wick comes aboard, than the 157lb kid from rider should come aboard it just makes to much sense.

 

[McScoreley]

If wick comes aboard, than the 157lb kid from rider should come aboard it just makes to much sense.

This might be one of the best troll posts ever ... I can't tell if you're being serious and missed the last few pages or sarcastic.

 

[McScoreley]

If wick comes aboard, than the 157lb kid from Northwestern should come aboard it just makes to much sense.

Fixed it for you anyways

 

[82bordeaux]

If wick comes aboard, than the 157lb kid from rider should come aboard it just makes to much sense.

 

[McScoreley]

I think PSU is the favorite if they get Wick. I posted this on themat a few weeks ago (full disclosure I am not really a fan of any team)

Iowa won by 15.5 in 2021

Howard scored 1.5. Let's call it 0 for Steen. 17 pt difference

Berge scored 3. Let's call it 0 for Barraclaugh. 20 pt difference

Beard scored 9.5. Dean scored 17 in 2019. Call it 16 for 2022? 13.5 pt difference

Joe Lee scored 0. Wick scored 15.5 in 2019. Call it 15 for 2022? 1.5 pt difference for PSU

Bartlett will score in 2022. Maybe AA's. 5.5? 7 pt difference for PSU

Marinelli scored 4 in 2021. 7.5 in 2019, 13 in 2018. Call it 15 for 2022? 4 pt difference for Iowa. Obviously he's the wild card.

Kerk scored 11 in 2021. He improves in 2022. Call it 15 for 2022? tied.

I'll assume the rest stay equal for simplicity. Some may higher, some may be lower but I don't envision the rest being too much different.

So considering that includes 2 PSU guys scoring 0 and PSU's history of overperforming, yes I think Wick would make PSU the favorite.

Excellent analysis and very well done. Obviously done from a PSU POV but very much makes sense.

Bartlett is key for us. I think he has a really high ceiling. Last year you can call his de facto redshirt year. Like certainly he would be redshirted in a year that counts. He showed flashes for sure but really was working on like less than 2 months (and really only gave the 149 experiment a go for 2 weeks) Let's not forget how Bo looked at the Scuffle and how DT looked against Cyler at first. He was right there with Bryce Meredith in freestyle and with Sasso and Yahya (2nd and 3rd at 149) in folk ... obviously close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades but not unreasonable to think he has another level ESPECIALLY since he's working to become a full sized 149.

Truthfully, I don't think it's unreasonable he can be more than 5.5 points (history shows Cael's RS FR who were blue chippers are) but obviously let's be conservative at first.

 

[jpsolo]

Flo mentioned yesterday at this point feeling is Beau redshirts this year. Obviously nothing is final and they have a lot of options.

 

[west2east]

If wick comes aboard, than the 157lb kid from rider should come aboard it just makes to much sense.

You will hear his name soon enough. It just won't be associated with Penn St

 

[PSU_Pride_93]

You will hear his name soon enough. It just won't be associated with Penn St

He’s the new army assistant coach

 

[Diego Badman]

Are you arguing Mark Hall is a choke artist?

BTW, you're inadvertently making my point for me: Marinelli is not Taylor, is not Hall, is not Bo, is not Zain, is not Jason, is not Ruth, is not Spencer, etc. Go on down the list.

He doesn't lose at nationals because he chokes. He loses because he's not as good as those guys.

People put too much stock into #1 seeds. Having the best regular season =/= being the best wrestler.

As far as the #1 Seeds, it is certainly trending in that direction:

2015: 6 - #1 Seeds were champions
2016: 6
2017: 5
2018: 5
2019: 4
2020: No Tournament
2021: 3

I don't know if 2021 is an outlier because of the truncated season, but it is what it is.

 

[MikeDerukey]

Lol. To get likes? bud, this isn't 6th grade. It was a rumor I heard. I owned it that I missed. Only verified moves allowed to be posted? I thought the point is to talk about what we are hearing.

You're right. This board is more like 9th grade.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Some of us need a third, 😂

What?? You can't drive with your knees? Amateur

 

[McScoreley]

Flo mentioned yesterday at this point feeling is Beau redshirts this year. Obviously nothing is final and they have a lot of options.

Unless Cael gets a transfer, one of SVN/Beau definitely goes. He is not leaving a hole at 149 this year. I think a lot of people switched the 149 to Beau after he won Junior Trials and Van Ness had some "bad losses" at 138 in freestyle, which tbh, really doesn't matter if Cael thinks he can get the kid up to speed in the room very quickly.

 

[1032004]

Unless Cael gets a transfer, one of SVN/Beau definitely goes. He is not leaving a hole at 149 this year. I think a lot of people switched the 149 to Beau after he won Junior Trials and Van Ness had some "bad losses" at 138 in freestyle, which tbh, really doesn't matter if Cael thinks he can get the kid up to speed in the room very quickly.

Yeah that seems like a pretty big nugget to slip through the cracks. If true my assumption is that means Van Ness starts (unless as you say there's another transfer in the works) in which case I think the assumption is he performs comparably to Bartlett. Would that also mean Lee is likely going 149?

 

[McScoreley]

Yeah that seems like a pretty big nugget to slip through the cracks. If true my assumption is that means Van Ness starts (unless as you say there's another transfer in the works) in which case I think the assumption is he performs comparably to Bartlett. Would that also mean Lee is likely going 149?

I think we see both Bartlett/Van Ness in redshirt and at opens in early Fall. They can both get 20 matches in that scenario anyways and then they both wrestle the Scuffle. Whatever Nick goes for the first dual is the weight he's going for the year (and a lot of people are adamant it'll stay 141) and SVN/Bartlett settles the other weight. Entirely possible Cael is still much higher on Van Ness' overall tournament ceiling if he can get his hand fighting and defense in order throughout the year.

 

[1032004]

I think we see both Bartlett/Van Ness in redshirt and at opens in early Fall. They can both get 20 matches in that scenario anyways and then they both wrestle the Scuffle. Whatever Nick goes for the first dual is the weight he's going for the year (and a lot of people are adamant it'll stay 141) and SVN/Bartlett settles the other weight. Entirely possible Cael is still much higher on Van Ness' overall tournament ceiling if he can get his hand fighting and defense in order throughout the year.

Makes sense that nothing would be too likely this early. Hopefully Pyles wasn't the one that said that and then set himself up for a "you got a plan?" joke.

 

[McScoreley]

Makes sense that nothing would be too likely this early. Hopefully Pyles wasn't the one that said that and then set himself up for a "you got a plan?" joke.

Obviously Cael doesn't tell Pyles anything but there are other was to get sources to what's going on in the room with PSU. I think most guys have a pretty good idea of what they're going to do weight wise and what to do to be successful there since the summer is essential to add good weight. We can't afford 3 holes next year even adding Evan Wick and Max Dean bottom line.

 

[1032004]

Excellent analysis and very well done. Obviously done from a PSU POV but very much makes sense.

Bartlett is key for us. I think he has a really high ceiling. Last year you can call his de facto redshirt year. Like certainly he would be redshirted in a year that counts. He showed flashes for sure but really was working on like less than 2 months (and really only gave the 149 experiment a go for 2 weeks) Let's not forget how Bo looked at the Scuffle and how DT looked against Cyler at first. He was right there with Bryce Meredith in freestyle and with Sasso and Yahya (2nd and 3rd at 149) in folk ... obviously close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades but not unreasonable to think he has another level ESPECIALLY since he's working to become a full sized 149.

Truthfully, I don't think it's unreasonable he can be more than 5.5 points (history shows Cael's RS FR who were blue chippers are) but obviously let's be conservative at first.

Honestly if anything I'm probably anti-PSU. I don't dislike them (other than maybe all the God talk), but I'll admit it's mostly just jealousy that they're so dang good.

I agree with one of the prior posters that other than Marinelli, I don't think Iowa really underperformed last year. Certainly possible Eierman and Kemerer flip those results (if Eierman and Lee are even at the same weight plus of course Yianni could be in there), but I think Starocci and Lee have to be considered the favorites, not to mention Eierman scored a ton of points anyway (he was the 9th highest scorer). They also got great performances from Desanto, Cassioppi and Warner which could be worse next year including the possibility of a PSU guy finishing ahead of Warner and Cassioppi.

Not sure what to think with Marinelli. I don't think you can count finishing 6th as a freshman as bad, and he did get some crazy draws the last 2 years and I do think he was legitimately injured last year. But if he was so good you'd think he would have made it further at least 1 of the last 2 tournaments. Not to mention if Wick goes to PSU that's yet another obstacle he'd have to overcome.

 

[McScoreley]

Honestly if anything I'm probably anti-PSU. I don't dislike them (other than maybe all the God talk), but I'll admit it's mostly just jealousy that they're so dang good.

I agree with one of the prior posters that other than Marinelli, I don't think Iowa really underperformed last year. Certainly possible Eierman and Kemerer flip those results (if Eierman and Lee are even at the same weight plus of course Yianni could be in there), but I think Starocci and Lee have to be considered the favorites, not to mention Eierman scored a ton of points anyway (he was the 9th highest scorer). They also got great performances from Desanto, Cassioppi and Warner which could be worse next year including the possibility of a PSU guy finishing ahead of Warner and Cassioppi.

Not sure what to think with Marinelli. I don't think you can count finishing 6th as a freshman as bad, and he did get some crazy draws the last 2 years and I do think he was legitimately injured last year. But if he was so good you'd think he would have made it further at least 1 of the last 2 tournaments. Not to mention if Wick goes to PSU that's yet another obstacle he'd have to overcome.

Hey - we welcome Anti PSU as long as they're civil about things. You clearly are and provided a great analysis!

Eierman didn't underachieve at all just because he lost to Lee ... pinning in the QFs and Semis was fantastic and the threat of him pinning anyone is always there but in 2019, he notched 2 majors so entirely possible he doesn't repeat the bonus streak. I don't think Iowa's 27 bonus is an anomaly, they have some big time bonusers on the team. In actuality, Cassioppi not getting any pins might be an underperformance on his end so it'll average out.

I don't know about Marinelli, I won't deny him drawing the champ in the quarters is bad luck for a 1 seed. That being said, I legitimately think there's something to it besides the "mental" game. I think if he wrestled Lewis, Griffith in a dual and/or Big Tens he would win those matches.

 

[McScoreley]

Also guys - listen to IMar's interview on Baschamania and he explains perfectly why PSU excels at NCAAs. He more or less smirked at Cenzo and said you guys ALWAYS changed one or two things on me at NCAAs, you have some good scouts and coaches on your team and Cenzo is like we do for sure.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Flo mentioned yesterday at this point feeling is Beau redshirts this year. Obviously nothing is final and they have a lot of options.

Pyles has a plan?

 

[js8793]

Hey - we welcome Anti PSU as long as they're civil about things. You clearly are and provided a great analysis!

Eierman didn't underachieve at all just because he lost to Lee ... pinning in the QFs and Semis was fantastic and the threat of him pinning anyone is always there but in 2019, he notched 2 majors so entirely possible he doesn't repeat the bonus streak. I don't think Iowa's 27 bonus is an anomaly, they have some big time bonusers on the team. In actuality, Cassioppi not getting any pins might be an underperformance on his end so it'll average out.

I don't know about Marinelli, I won't deny him drawing the champ in the quarters is bad luck for a 1 seed. That being said, I legitimately think there's something to it besides the "mental" game. I think if he wrestled Lewis, Griffith in a dual and/or Big Tens he would win those matches.

I think Marinelli's only "bad" performance was his semi slide his freshman year. He was much better than he showed in those two matches, though the McFadden flash spladle was kind of weird.

In 2019, he ran into 2 guys who had great weekends (1st and 3rd). Lewis had already beaten him previously. Marsteller was a really bad stylistic match up because his underhook really took away Marinelli's post attacks. He gave up 3 takedowns, all after shooting into an underhook and getting thrown by to a single.

In 2021, he once again ran into the champ in the quarters, losing in the final seconds on a counter attack and breaking a rib in the process. Griffith scored on the same left hand underhook throwbye off Marinelli's post that Marsteller did. Griffith's length and balance kept him alive when Marinelli got to his legs early, like Lewis, and then you could see him start to get a better and better read on the post/level change until he caught him perfectly in OT.

The biggest problem with Marinelli is that he's one-dimensional. Everybody in the building knows what he's going to do. He struggles finishing against length and if you're powerful enough to hold your ground, you can keep his offense at bay. I still think he's one of a few guys who can win 165, but he's not good enough to win without a little luck, like most champs.

 

[jack66]

IMO the shortened season hurt us more than most teams. Obviously, our young team could have used a little more mat time, but beyond that our Fr didn't have enough matches to earn better seeds at nationals.

Iowa, with 8 wrestlers seeded in the top-5 at NCAAs, was in a great position to earn bonus points in the 1st 2 rounds. We, on the other hand, had only 4.

I'm not throwing shade at the Hawks, they earned their seeds, but with a full season under our belt, I think we'll see our guys better positioned to match Iowa's bonus point production in the early rounds next year.

 

[js8793]

IMO the shortened season hurt us more than most teams. Obviously, our young team could have used a little more mat time, but beyond that our Fr didn't have enough matches to earn better seeds at nationals.

Iowa, with 8 wrestlers seeded in the top-5 at NCAAs, was in a great position to earn bonus points in the 1st 2 rounds. We, on the other hand, had only 4.

I'm not throwing shade at the Hawks, they earned their seeds, but with a full season under our belt, I think we'll see our guys better positioned to match Iowa's bonus point production in the early rounds next year.

I get this argument, but Iowa also just has more bonus potential right now. Lee is really your only bonus machine. As great as guys like RBY, Starocci, Brooks, and Kerk are, they don't score a ton of bonus against NQ quality wrestlers. Those guys accounted for a combined total of 4 falls last year and the combined records of the opponents was 2-26. Not a talent thing at all obviously. More of a style thing. None of them are pinners and usually ride to control or are neutral specialists like Brooks.

I do agree the shortened season hurt you. Howard and Bartlett needed the mat time.

 

[McScoreley]

IMO the shortened season hurt us more than most teams. Obviously, our young team could have used a little more mat time, but beyond that our Fr didn't have enough matches to earn better seeds at nationals.

Iowa, with 8 wrestlers seeded in the top-5 at NCAAs, was in a great position to earn bonus points in the 1st 2 rounds. We, on the other hand, had only 4.

I'm not throwing shade at the Hawks, they earned their seeds, but with a full season under our belt, I think we'll see our guys better positioned to match Iowa's bonus point production in the early rounds next year.

While what you say is true ... RBY, Carter, Brooks earned good seeds (2, 3, 1) but didn't notch a ton of bonus (they had 4.5 between the 3 of them) so we can't blame the seeds there. I think Cael pushes for them to really evolve their games now and I fully believe they will in a normal year. Truthfully, I don't think Carter ever got back to where he was in the Fall when he took Skatzka down 4 downs effortlessly then just pinned him. Keep in mind when he first came back, he was barely hanging on against non qualifiers even like Krattiger and Fisher.

Ironically, Beard and Kerkvliet both notched a good bit of bonus for us. Beard with 3 and Kerkvliet with 4.5.

 

[AndEEss]

While what you say is true ... RBY, Carter, Brooks earned good seeds (2, 3, 1) but didn't notch a ton of bonus (they had 4.5 between the 3 of them) so we can't blame the seeds there. I think Cael pushes for them to really evolve their games now and I fully believe they will in a normal year. Truthfully, I don't think Carter ever got back to where he was in the Fall when he took Skatzka down 4 downs effortlessly then just pinned him. Keep in mind when he first came back, he was barely hanging on against non qualifiers even like Krattiger and Fisher.

Ironically, Beard and Kerkvliet both notched a good bit of bonus for us. Beard with 3 and Kerkvliet with 4.5.

Yeah.

I don't think the Carter of the NLWC cards has to go to OT with Kemerer. Or Massa. Or Labriola. Or Romero.

 

[PD4thespawn]

I miss fortune cookies with Confucius wisdom. Now they give me losing lottery numbers to play.

A good fortune cookie should allow you to add " ln bed" at the end of the fortune to make it better. Try it sometime. A girl from Canada taught me that one back in the day.

 

[dunkej01]

A good fortune cookie should allow you to add " ln bed" at the end of the fortune to make it better. Try it sometime. A girl from Canada taught me that one back in the day.

In bed?

 

[District four]

Confucius also say “ Man who make up shit about what Confucius say….in order to get likes…. have hairy palms”

Confucius say "he who puts hand in pocket feels cocky" lmfso

 

[McScoreley]

Yeah.

I don't think the Carter of the NLWC cards has to go to OT with Kemerer. Or Massa. Or Labriola. Or Romero.

That's the impressive thing. I don't think Carter was himself this year but he just found ways to win. I fully believe him and Aaron Brooks have a ton of bonus potential. Remember, the narrative on Mark and Cenzo earlier on their career is they aren't big time bonusers.

Now I don't expect either of them to be Nolf/Nickal/Zain in that they'll be a major decision favorite in the finals and they can pin or tech their semis opponent possibly but I absolutely can see them being the type to get bonus through 3 rounds, which would go a LONG way in the team race next year.

For example, Webster was just kind of stalling against Aaron this year and Aaron settled for a 5-0 win, similarly I wouldn't be shocked if Aaron can bonus Taylor Venz also (obviously he's pinned him before). Carter beat Hastings 8-2 and was up 6-1 before giving up a last second takedown against McNally. 4 extra points there go a long way.

 

[Dogwelder]

A good fortune cookie should allow you to add " ln bed" at the end of the fortune to make it better. Try it sometime. A girl from Canada taught me that one back in the day.

Worst fortune cookie ever:

“You are not in bed.”

 

[El-Jefe]

That's the impressive thing. I don't think Carter was himself this year but he just found ways to win. I fully believe him and Aaron Brooks have a ton of bonus potential. Remember, the narrative on Mark and Cenzo earlier on their career is they aren't big time bonusers.

Now I don't expect either of them to be Nolf/Nickal/Zain in that they'll be a major decision favorite in the finals and they can pin or tech their semis opponent possibly but I absolutely can see them being the type to get bonus through 3 rounds, which would go a LONG way in the team race next year.

For example, Webster was just kind of stalling against Aaron this year and Aaron settled for a 5-0 win, similarly I wouldn't be shocked if Aaron can bonus Taylor Venz also (obviously he's pinned him before). Carter beat Hastings 8-2 and was up 6-1 before giving up a last second takedown against McNally. 4 extra points there go a long way.

I don't see Aaron as a Zain/Jason/Bo type bonus machine -- his style is that freestyle oriented. I do see him developing into a Mark/Cenzo level bonus guy -- good bonus rate from feet + some pins from crossface cradles (which he used in HS).

Carter fits that bonus level too -- but closer to Zain's style. He's physically and mentally perfect to use the bow and arrow, and look out when he does.

Most of us would be pretty happy with multiple starters being Mark/Cenzo type scorers. Those guys don't grow on trees.

 

[82bordeaux]

Worst fortune cookie ever:

“You are not in bed.”

or "you make women laugh"...

 

[82bordeaux]

That's the impressive thing. I don't think Carter was himself this year but he just found ways to win. I fully believe him and Aaron Brooks have a ton of bonus potential. Remember, the narrative on Mark and Cenzo earlier on their career is they aren't big time bonusers.

Now I don't expect either of them to be Nolf/Nickal/Zain in that they'll be a major decision favorite in the finals and they can pin or tech their semis opponent possibly but I absolutely can see them being the type to get bonus through 3 rounds, which would go a LONG way in the team race next year.

For example, Webster was just kind of stalling against Aaron this year and Aaron settled for a 5-0 win, similarly I wouldn't be shocked if Aaron can bonus Taylor Venz also (obviously he's pinned him before). Carter beat Hastings 8-2 and was up 6-1 before giving up a last second takedown against McNally. 4 extra points there go a long way.

Last year's pre-season Starocci prediction was he would lose to Kemerer in his first match and beat Kemerer at the NCAA tournament. I did not jump off that bandwagon after the Indiana match.

This year's Starocci prediction is; He will have a 70% bonus rate in 2022.

 

[McScoreley]

I don't see Aaron as a Zain/Jason/Bo type bonus machine -- his style is that freestyle oriented. I do see him developing into a Mark/Cenzo level bonus guy -- good bonus rate from feet + some pins from crossface cradles (which he used in HS).

Carter fits that bonus level too -- but closer to Zain's style. He's physically and mentally perfect to use the bow and arrow, and look out when he does.

Most of us would be pretty happy with multiple starters being Mark/Cenzo type scorers. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Unless Cael plants said tree because it seems like those guys do grow on trees here

I absolutely can see Carter becoming more of a turner. His top game is very brutal. Either way, I see both those guys evolving. I was beyond impressed with Kerkvliet's bonusing, 4 wins/4 bonus. I'll tell you, I never have seen Jordan Wood turned like that.

 

[McScoreley]

Last year's pre-season Starocci prediction was he would lose to Kemerer in his first match and beat Kemerer at the NCAA tournament. I did not jump off that bandwagon after the Indiana match.

This year's Starocci prediction is; He will have a 70% bonus rate in 2022.

Let's do it! I would 100% buy that and it'll be much needed with how deep 174 will be next year.

Carter looked awful the first month of the year, like multiple steps back. He was taken to the brink by Fisher and Krattiger who weren't even National Qualifiers. Honestly, if he didn't choose bottom, Donnell Washington likely wins by blowout. I don't think he got to where he can get by March but Cael had a plan for him to win regardless.