Expectations for Pry and the Defense

[marisa45]

Admittedly, we've been a little spoiled with good (and sometimes great) defenses at Penn State. We've gotten used to being strong on the defensive side of the ball, but last year statistically was a little shaky. Getting back to sound defense could mean the difference between a Big Ten Championship or falling short. It seems logical that the quality of the defense could be the determining factor in a National Championship caliber team or just a good team. (12-0/11-1 vs. 10-2/9-3)

Expecting the offense to be pretty much loaded in 2017, where does our defense need to rank for this team to make a run at a National Championship?

Defensive ranks since 2008:

2008: 8th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2009: 9th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2010: 35th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2011: 20th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2012: 29th in total defense (Ted Roof)
2013: 49th in total defense (John Butler)
2014: 2nd in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2015: 14th in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2016: 37th in total defense (Brent Pry)
(average 8 years = 22nd)

The good news is that one of our best defenses (2014) came off one of our worst (2013)--thank you John Butler--spit. Can Brent Pry and company get back to playing lights out defense? What needs to happen?

One thing that stands out is star players: 2008 and 2009 had players like Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans, Jared Odrick, Navorro Bowman. 2014 and 2015 had one of the best defensive lines (and perhaps even front 7) in all of college football with Austin Johnson, Anthony Zettel, CJ Olaniyan, Deion Barnes and Carl Nassib with Mike Hull, Nyeem Wartman and Brandon Bell manning the linebacker spots. Who are the players that need to emerge this year?

 

[brupsu]

Admittedly, we've been a little spoiled with good (and sometimes great) defenses at Penn State. We've gotten used to being strong on the defensive side of the ball, but last year statistically was a little shaky. Getting back to sound defense could mean the difference between a Big Ten Championship or falling short. It seems logical that the quality of the defense could be the determining factor in a National Championship caliber team or just a good team. (12-0/11-1 vs. 10-2/9-3)

Expecting the offense to be pretty much loaded in 2017, where does our defense need to rank for this team to make a run at a National Championship?

Defensive ranks since 2008:

2008: 8th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2009: 9th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2010: 35th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2011: 20th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2012: 29th in total defense (Ted Roof)
2013: 49th in total defense (John Butler)
2014: 2nd in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2015: 14th in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2016: 37th in total defense (Brent Pry)
(average 8 years = 22nd)

The good news is that one of our best defenses (2014) came off one of our worst (2013)--thank you John Butler--spit. Can Brent Pry and company get back to playing lights out defense? What needs to happen?

One thing that stands out is star players: 2008 and 2009 had players like Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans, Jared Odrick, Navorro Bowman. 2014 and 2015 had one of the best defensive lines in all of college football with Austin Johnson, Anthony Zettel, CJ Olaniyan, Deion Barnes and Carl Nassib. Who are the players that need to emerge this year?

The key is to stay healthy.So many injuries last year.

 

[BisbeeMike]

There will be 7 out of 11 starters on this defense who are seniors. At other times, if Smith is on the field, there is a possible 8 out of 11. The players who are not seniors, are going to be looked at and expected to be major impact players, such as Shareef Miller and the like. I think the word "expectations" is a bit difficult due to what definition you might put on it. It wouldnt be a stretch to believe that this defense has a chance to produce more turnovers than last year. Right away, that would make them a better defense. A better pass rush and better penetration could help also. The coaches on this team have been raving about the team speed for this defense, as it looks to be a faster defense this year, than it was last year. Some of that has to do with experience, in that more experienced defenses play faster because they trust what they see more, and they have better and quicker recognition of both the call on the sideline, and the pre snap reads, as well as the post snap reactions. They know what is happening and they know where to go. We have some young guys who might make some plays, but also might feel some growing pains, all depending on how fast they can get up to speed and how well we can implement them in situations where they can react faster.

I don't have any wild expectations, but rather cautious optimism for some needed upgrades in production on third down, turnovers, and rushing defense. Every defense will give up yards and plays, the best ones make the plays when most needed, we shall see if this defense can do those things. My suspicion is, yes they can.

 

[PennSt8er]

Pass rush (the lack of) killed us in good games last year (Rose Bowl as an example). Would love to see the DL dominate. That alone would make a huge difference in key games. We beat OSU last year when the DL dominated in Q4.

 

[broey1]

I think the defense will be good, maybe not great. Barring any injuries, it should be pretty good in the middle and the first 5 LBs have experience. Secondary, I think would be good with some experience back there (losing Reid is pretty big).

I would look to finish in the high teens, low 20s in total defense with the main variables being pass rush and how fast Wade develops.

 

[indynittany]

Statistically, I think one thing that should help the defense will be the offense getting out of the gate more quickly. That'll force opponents out of their game plan.

PSU was very inconsistent against the run. We should be solid up the middle. How well the DE's play will be key. If we can pressure the QB without blitzing and the DL can free up the linebackers to make plays, this defense will be more than good enough.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I don't think its fair to look at defensive rankings without comparing it to what the offense was doing that year. Anytime you have a high scoring, especially a quick strike offense, it puts a lot of pressure on the defense. The defense stays much better rested through a series of 8 to 12 minute drives than they do when the offense is on the field for just a few minutes. I wouldn't say that it's impossible to have a top ten defense when you are running a dynamic offense (like Moorhead's RPO), but its very difficult. Maybe this is why we seem to have D linemen that seem to be a little more athletic as opposed to immovable object types, because they would typically have better aerobic fitness and recovery.

 

[VaNtyLion]

Admittedly, we've been a little spoiled with good (and sometimes great) defenses at Penn State. We've gotten used to being strong on the defensive side of the ball, but last year statistically was a little shaky. Getting back to sound defense could mean the difference between a Big Ten Championship or falling short. It seems logical that the quality of the defense could be the determining factor in a National Championship caliber team or just a good team. (12-0/11-1 vs. 10-2/9-3)

Expecting the offense to be pretty much loaded in 2017, where does our defense need to rank for this team to make a run at a National Championship?

Defensive ranks since 2008:

2008: 8th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2009: 9th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2010: 35th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2011: 20th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2012: 29th in total defense (Ted Roof)
2013: 49th in total defense (John Butler)
2014: 2nd in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2015: 14th in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2016: 37th in total defense (Brent Pry)
(average 8 years = 22nd)

The good news is that one of our best defenses (2014) came off one of our worst (2013)--thank you John Butler--spit. Can Brent Pry and company get back to playing lights out defense? What needs to happen?

One thing that stands out is star players: 2008 and 2009 had players like Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans, Jared Odrick, Navorro Bowman. 2014 and 2015 had one of the best defensive lines (and perhaps even front 7) in all of college football with Austin Johnson, Anthony Zettel, CJ Olaniyan, Deion Barnes and Carl Nassib with Mike Hull, Nyeem Wartman and Brandon Bell manning the linebacker spots. Who are the players that need to emerge this year?

I think the D stats last year are skewed quite a bit by depth and injuries at LB, particularly in the month of September. Also worth noting that USC in the Rose Bowl was able to mount their comeback when Bell went out (and Bowen didn't play at all).

LB depth still may be a little bit of a concern if there's injury issues, but the biggest ? with this year's D going into the season is who will emerge as the pass rushers to replace Sickels and Schwan. I think Shareef Miller was very close to these guys by the end of the season. With Miller, Brown, Buchholz, Simmons, Toney and Matos, there's enough talent there to alleviate the pass rush concern.

The interior or the DL looks very solid...maybe best depth we've had here in a decade.

 

[marisa45]

I think the defense will be good, maybe not great. Barring any injuries, it should be pretty good in the middle and the first 5 LBs have experience. Secondary, I think would be good with some experience back there (losing Reid is pretty big).

I would look to finish in the high teens, low 20s in total defense with the main variables being pass rush and how fast Wade develops.

I agree, I think the LB depth will be much better. We may need to find a way to get 31 on the field. Cam Brown's physical style might bring a mean streak to this defense. Another guy I'm very intrigued by to bring more physicality to the team is true freshman Johnathan Sutherland. Haven't heard much about him out of camp.

High to mid-teens may be enough. Top 10 could mean National Championship.

 

[marisa45]

I don't think its fair to look at defensive rankings without comparing it to what the offense was doing that year. Anytime you have a high scoring, especially a quick strike offense, it puts a lot of pressure on the defense. The defense stays much better rested through a series of 8 to 12 minute drives than they do when the offense is on the field for just a few minutes. I wouldn't say that it's impossible to have a top ten defense when you are running a dynamic offense (like Moorhead's RPO), but its very difficult. Maybe this is why we seem to have D linemen that seem to be a little more athletic as opposed to immovable object types, because they would typically have better aerobic fitness and recovery.

Good point. Still you would like to see a defense in the top 20 if we're going to the next step regardless if that is dependent on the offense or not. If it is dependent on the offense then that conversation needs to be had. How many head coaches set expectations with their OC's on time of possession and other critical goals?

Improved Offensive Line play may lead to a more balanced offense capable of bleeding clock and wearing opposing defenses down in critical late quarters. 3RD and 4TH Quarter comebacks are not recipes for Championship Caliber teams not at least when they constitute a majority of your wins. At some point in games you will need to exert your physical will on your opponents.

I'm fine with our D-Line not looking like our traditional D-Line as long as we can get red zone stops when we need them. In years past we always had the run stopper in the middle who was physically superior to anyone else on the field. Devon Still, Daquon Jones, Austin Johnson, Jared Odrick and to a lesser extent Anthony Zettel and Jordan Hill were guys who shut down the run when the game was on the line.

 

[BBrown]

Statistically, I think one thing that should help the defense will be the offense getting out of the gate more quickly. That'll force opponents out of their game plan.

PSU was very inconsistent against the run. We should be solid up the middle. How well the DE's play will be key. If we can pressure the QB without blitzing and the DL can free up the linebackers to make plays, this defense will be more than good enough.

I thought they got better as the season wore on and once they got healthier and the suspensions ended.
I'd be happy with more pressure from the DL/DE's and a couple of timely INT's by the secondary.

 

[marisa45]

I think the D stats last year are skewed quite a bit by depth and injuries at LB, particularly in the month of September. Also worth noting that USC in the Rose Bowl was able to mount their comeback when Bell went out (and Bowen didn't play at all).

LB depth still may be a little bit of a concern if there's injury issues, but the biggest ? with this year's D going into the season is who will emerge as the pass rushers to replace Sickels and Schwan. I think Shareef Miller was very close to these guys by the end of the season. With Miller, Brown, Buchholz, Simmons, Toney and Matos, there's enough talent there to alleviate the pass rush concern.

The interior or the DL looks very solid...maybe best depth we've had here in a decade.

I think you're right about the Defensive Ends being the biggest question marks, but then again, how many elite pass rushers have we had in the last 10 years....only two come to mind, Maybin and Nassib.

The element we have always had was a tremendously strong middle to our defensive front. We may be solid there now but we are far from dominant and not to the level of past teams. An elite 1-technique, who could anchor the line at the point of attack, was the common denominator and a dominant 3-technique who fed off the big man.....padding his stats in the process. Our current combination is not (in my opinion) the caliber of some of the combinations of the past: Johnson-Zettel, Still-Jones or Gilliam-Odrick. Someone needs to emerge.

 

[KC-KS-Lion]

DL is the obvious unknown, but I think a healthy experienced LB corp and having Wade will be major positives. I do think they have the numbers and potential at DL where some should rise. A blitzing athletic LB can help the DL, a big thing we missed in the Rose Bowl with Bowen not playing. I'm not sure how much the absence of Reid will neutralize the addition of Wade. I think the DB play, particularly the positioning like what I saw on the coverage in the Rose Bowl, needs to improve.

 

[Obliviax]

all great posts above. The best defense is a good offense and visa versa. We scored quickly and didn't get a lot of TO's, which gave the other team a lot of time of possession. and the injuries at LB killed us early in the season.

This year, we are deeper on the DL and LB but we lost one of our best players to injury.

One thing of note, we didn't see the real hurry up offense last year. There was talk of the D throwing up and being worn down in practices but I don't recall PSU ever really running that fast offense last year. Perhaps it was to establish more TOP and protect the D.

 

[Omar81]

I don't think its fair to look at defensive rankings without comparing it to what the offense was doing that year. Anytime you have a high scoring, especially a quick strike offense, it puts a lot of pressure on the defense. The defense stays much better rested through a series of 8 to 12 minute drives than they do when the offense is on the field for just a few minutes. I wouldn't say that it's impossible to have a top ten defense when you are running a dynamic offense (like Moorhead's RPO), but its very difficult. Maybe this is why we seem to have D linemen that seem to be a little more athletic as opposed to immovable object types, because they would typically have better aerobic fitness and recovery.

You've stated one of the reasons I feel the '94 defense is vastly underrated -- with the other being that we often had such huge leads that the 2nd and 3rd teamers were out there giving up garbage time scores. That was a national championship team, with a one-for-the-ages offenses and a good/very good (not average or below average) defense.

 

[tboyer]

Good thread!

I agree with what seems to be the consensus here. This year's D will be a step up from last year's D (the midseason group after they had linebackers back), but not a big leap. There is top level talent coming into this D for the 2017-18 recruiting classes but this year is too soon to see much impact. The D should be really good in 2019.

I wouldn't call this defense "loaded." The DL has good depth and solid players but no proven stars yet. I have pretty high hopes for DT - Curtis Cothran has all Big Ten potential, and Cothren/Givens/Windsor all bring something good. DT is in good shape.

DE I think will be OK but I don't see anybody on the DE ready to dominate this year. And against the best offensive lines in the Big Ten I am a little worried about DE. Some of the young DEs we have really high hopes for, some very highly touted prospects -- seems to me there has been an absence of comments by coaches. Which is a sign that they're not seeing a lot yet. Shaka Toney could be really good but he is a situational pass rusher not a dominator.

LB -- a very good group and at least has the potential, if they stay healthy, to be as good as a strong PSU group of linebackers.

Secondary -- a work in progress, may take a few games to really settle in, but I think they'll be really good and a significant improvement over previous years. They have experienced people and also really outstanding young players.

Basically, I don't think this Penn State team has the D to grind out 14-10 or 17-14 over Iowa or Northwestern. But with this O they shouldn't have to.

 

[tboyer]

The element we have always had was a tremendously strong middle to our defensive front. We may be solid there now but we are far from dominant and not to the level of past teams.... Someone needs to emerge.

Curtis Cothran had a couple games last year where he looked like a future NFL DT. He and Givens can be very disruptive. The rest of the group at least is solid, with good size and athleticism.

So yeah, I guess it's a glass half full or half empty but it's not quite the level of athlete that PSU has had at DT in the past. It will be in a couple of years, clearly.

People are talking about the 90s. The DTs from 1994-97 had size and depth issues because of injuries, Chris Maszyk's gunshot wound and a run of recruiting whiffs (this was before LJ Sr. revived the DL program at PSU). At times PSU was starting 235-240 pound DTs and Brandon Short was essentially playing DE. The DL was mauled not just by Ohio State and Michigan but by Wisconsin, Northwestern, sometimes Michigan State. The fact that the B1G legalized holding during that period kind of magnified this problem because it favored the massive OLs.

This year's DL doesn't have stars (yet) but they do have size, depth and experience.

Robert Windsor for example. Three star recruit, no offers from top 10 programs, but he's in his third year this year -- he's physically developed, he knows the defensive system and he was on the field every game last year. He could be one of those people who is suddenly really good and people say - where did HE come from?

Really whether the DL is good or very good depends on the redshirt soph class -- Windsor, Givens, Miller, Buchholtz. This is their year to arrive.

 

[BBrown]

Curtis Cothran had a couple games last year where he looked like a future NFL DT. He and Givens can be very disruptive. The rest of the group at least is solid, with good size and athleticism.

So yeah, I guess it's a glass half full or half empty but it's not quite the level of athlete that PSU has had at DT in the past. It will be in a couple of years, clearly.

People are talking about the 90s. The DTs from 1994-97 had size and depth issues because of injuries, Chris Maszyk's gunshot wound and a run of recruiting whiffs (this was before LJ Sr. revived the DL program at PSU). At times PSU was starting 235-240 pound DTs and Brandon Short was essentially playing DE. The DL was mauled not just by Ohio State and Michigan but by Wisconsin, Northwestern, sometimes Michigan State. The fact that the B1G legalized holding during that period kind of magnified this problem because it favored the massive OLs.

This year's DL doesn't have stars (yet) but they do have size, depth and experience.

Robert Windsor for example. Three star recruit, no offers from top 10 programs, but he's in his third year this year -- he's physically developed, he knows the defensive system and he was on the field every game last year. He could be one of those people who is suddenly really good and people say - where did HE come from?

Really whether the DL is good or very good depends on the redshirt soph class -- Windsor, Givens, Miller, Buchholtz. This is their year to arrive.

Don't sleep on Chavis. I'm expecting good things from him.
He already has an NFL DT body.

 

[marisa45]

Good thread!

I agree with what seems to be the consensus here. This year's D will be a step up from last year's D (the midseason group after they had linebackers back), but not a big leap. There is top level talent coming into this D for the 2017-18 recruiting classes but this year is too soon to see much impact. The D should be really good in 2019.

I wouldn't call this defense "loaded." The DL has good depth and solid players but no proven stars yet. I have pretty high hopes for DT - Curtis Cothran has all Big Ten potential, and Cothren/Givens/Windsor all bring something good. DT is in good shape.

DE I think will be OK but I don't see anybody on the DE ready to dominate this year. And against the best offensive lines in the Big Ten I am a little worried about DE. Some of the young DEs we have really high hopes for, some very highly touted prospects -- seems to me there has been an absence of comments by coaches. Which is a sign that they're not seeing a lot yet. Shaka Toney could be really good but he is a situational pass rusher not a dominator.

LB -- a very good group and at least has the potential, if they stay healthy, to be as good as a strong PSU group of linebackers.

Secondary -- a work in progress, may take a few games to really settle in, but I think they'll be really good and a significant improvement over previous years. They have experienced people and also really outstanding young players.

Basically, I don't think this Penn State team has the D to grind out 14-10 or 17-14 over Iowa or Northwestern. But with this O they shouldn't have to.

Agree have the players to be very good maybe not great. This could be one of the most balanced defenses we've had in a while with no real glaring weaknesses.

Secondary: We have several players who have shown themselves competent in the secondary to step in for John Reid. I think Campbell may actually give us an extra element of size we didn't have. Watch out for Lamont Wade and Johnathan Sutherland to add physicality and "swag" to the secondary.

The Linebackers need to stay healthy none more so than Jason Cabinda--Jason should call Sean Lee and ask him what he did to stay on the field the last 2 seasons.........hint, it has something to do with not always crashing into people with reckless abandon. Cabinda is the quarterback and key to the defense.....the DT's need to protect this guy. Jason does not need to play one worthless down on defense. If the game is out of reach....get him out of there!

D-Line. This is the biggest question mark but there is depth. My biggest takeaways: does Curtis Cothren take the next step? Can we get quality minutes out of Givens, Chavis and Windsor? Do either Torrence Brown and Shareef Miller make the jump to dominant or just solid? Is Shaka Toney the wildcard on passing downs? What about Bulcholtz---has all the physical tools, can he take it to the next level ala Nassib and Schwann?

These would be my keys

 

[Obliviax]

Agree have the players to be very good maybe not great. This could be one of the most balanced defenses we've had in a while with no real glaring weaknesses.

Secondary: We have several players who have shown themselves competent in the secondary to step in for John Reid. I think Campbell may actually give us an extra element of size we didn't have. Watch out for Lamont Wade and Johnathan Sutherland to add physicality and "swag" to the secondary.

The Linebackers need to stay healthy none more so than Jason Cabinda--Jason should call Sean Lee and ask him what he did to stay on the field the last 2 seasons.........hint, it has something to do with not always crashing into people with reckless abandon. Cabinda is key to this defense.....the DT's need to protect this guy. Jason does not need to play on worthless down on defense. If the game is out of reach....get him out of there!

D-Line. This is the biggest question mark but there is depth. My biggest takeaways: does Curtis Cothren take the next step? Can we get quality minutes out of Givens, Chavis and Windsor? Do either Torrence Brown and Shareef Miller make the jump to dominant or just solid? Is Shaka Toney the wildcard on passing downs? What about Bulcholtz---has all the physical tools, can he take it to the next level ala Nassib and Schwann?

These would be my keys

Agree....my concern is defending the power run game and getting a pass rush. I think we will be improved in both but the UM game and USC games stick out to me. Pitt too, defending Conner. I was surprised how well we defended the power run late in the year (Wiscy).

 

[tboyer]

The Linebackers need to stay healthy none more so than Jason Cabinda--Jason should call Sean Lee and ask him what he did to stay on the field the last 2 seasons.........hint, it has something to do with not always crashing into people with reckless abandon. Cabinda is the quarterback and key to the defense.....the DT's need to protect this guy. Jason does not need to play one worthless down on defense. If the game is out of reach....get him out of there!

Wasn't it two years in a row PSU lost Wartman-White to a clip on a kickoff return? Am I remembering correctly?

I hope they have enough players on kick coverage that they don't need to use LBers there.

That could be one of the best things about this redshirt freshman class -- it finally gives PSU enough depth to properly man return teams.

 

[marisa45]

Wasn't it two years in a row PSU lost Wartman-White to a clip on a kickoff return? Am I remembering correctly?

I hope they have enough players on kick coverage that they don't need to use LBers there.

That could be one of the best things about this redshirt freshman class -- it finally gives PSU enough depth to properly man return teams.

Correct and good point! Jason, needs to actively work on staying on the field......something which can be achieved if focused on. Like I said, just ask Sean Lee. Lee's problem for years was that he went "too" hard in practices and in games even in garbage time.

 

[BBrown]

Wasn't it two years in a row PSU lost Wartman-White to a clip on a kickoff return? Am I remembering correctly?

I hope they have enough players on kick coverage that they don't need to use LBers there.

That could be one of the best things about this redshirt freshman class -- it finally gives PSU enough depth to properly man return teams.

I don't think it was a clip against Temple just horrible luck and bad footing.
I think the odd part is both injuries happened against Temple.
I remember watching the Pitt game and thinking that White looked like Poz did in that horrible game against
ND, limping all over the field.

 

[bdgan]

Admittedly, we've been a little spoiled with good (and sometimes great) defenses at Penn State. We've gotten used to being strong on the defensive side of the ball, but last year statistically was a little shaky. Getting back to sound defense could mean the difference between a Big Ten Championship or falling short. It seems logical that the quality of the defense could be the determining factor in a National Championship caliber team or just a good team. (12-0/11-1 vs. 10-2/9-3)

Expecting the offense to be pretty much loaded in 2017, where does our defense need to rank for this team to make a run at a National Championship?

Defensive ranks since 2008:

2008: 8th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2009: 9th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2010: 35th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2011: 20th in total defense (Tom Bradley)
2012: 29th in total defense (Ted Roof)
2013: 49th in total defense (John Butler)
2014: 2nd in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2015: 14th in total defense (Bob Shoop)
2016: 37th in total defense (Brent Pry)
(average 8 years = 22nd)

The good news is that one of our best defenses (2014) came off one of our worst (2013)--thank you John Butler--spit. Can Brent Pry and company get back to playing lights out defense? What needs to happen?

One thing that stands out is star players: 2008 and 2009 had players like Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans, Jared Odrick, Navorro Bowman. 2014 and 2015 had one of the best defensive lines (and perhaps even front 7) in all of college football with Austin Johnson, Anthony Zettel, CJ Olaniyan, Deion Barnes and Carl Nassib with Mike Hull, Nyeem Wartman and Brandon Bell manning the linebacker spots. Who are the players that need to emerge this year?

Althon's pre season all conference team on defense:

T. Brown 4th team DE
J. Cabinda 2nd team LB
G. Haley 3rd team CB
M. Allen 1st team S

Not the best in terms of star power but here's how I see it.

DT has no stars but at least 4 very capable players. This is probably the strength of our defense and I expect at least one of these guys to wind up as 3rd team all conference.

DEs have to be replaced but there are some good candidates. I'm not sure if any will wind up on the all conference team but I think PSU is in pretty good shape.

MLB is in very good shape with Cabinda & Smith. Bowen and Farmer have to improve if PSU is going to have a good defense this year. The LBs also have to stay healthy because depth isn't the best.

S should be in great shape with Allen. Apke & others should be fine at the other position.

CB is a concern due to Reid's injury. Haley is OK at one spot but we'll have to see who else steps up. A good pass rush from our DEs would sure help.

A good punter helps the defense too so that's a plus. Personally I expect PSU's defense to be 6th or 7th best in the BiG this fall. Combine that with an offense and kicking game that's in the top couple and PSU should be among the top 3 teams in the conference.

 

[marisa45]

Althon's pre season all conference team on defense:

T. Brown 4th team DE
J. Cabinda 2nd team LB
G. Haley 3rd team CB
M. Allen 1st team S

Not the best in terms of star power but here's how I see it.

DT has no stars but at least 4 very capable players. This is probably the strength of our defense and I expect at least one of these guys to wind up as 3rd team all conference.

DEs have to be replaced but there are some good candidates. I'm not sure if any will wind up on the all conference team but I think PSU is in pretty good shape.

MLB is in very good shape with Cabinda & Smith. Bowen and Farmer have to improve if PSU is going to have a good defense this year. The LBs also have to stay healthy because depth isn't the best.

S should be in great shape with Allen. Apke & others should be fine at the other position.

CB is a concern due to Reid's injury. Haley is OK at one spot but we'll have to see who else steps up. A good pass rush from our DEs would sure help.

A good punter helps the defense too so that's a plus. Personally I expect PSU's defense to be 6th or 7th best in the BiG this fall. Combine that with an offense and kicking game that's in the top couple and PSU should be among the top 3 teams in the conference.

All good points, especially the reference to the improvement on special teams which is one of the main reasons we were able to win the Big Ten last year.

The only point I take exception with, is having the 6th or 7th ranked defense in the BIG and one of the top 3 teams overall. I would consider that a failure.

Don't get me wrong, I think logically you could make those arguments, but I do not believe that is what the coaching staff and specifically CJF is counting on. I believe CJF really believes he has a Playoff Caliber team that can make a run at the National Championship; and he understands there is no time like the present.

Our once in a generation back is most likely leaving this year. The offense will likely look completely different a year from now with a different Offensive Coordinator taking the reigns (most likely).

My point to the whole post was as much as I like Pry, this is the year he really earns his coaching chops. Moorhead is a made man and "in-waiting" for the next big head coaching opportunity to present itself. Brent Pry has not yet proven himself as a defensive coordinator........if Brent Pry wants to follow down the same road as Moorhead and become the Head Coach that everyone says he can be, he needs to do something special with this defense. He needs to find a way to field a top 20 defense this year, and more likely, a top 10 defense if we are to get a legitimate shot at the title.

The coaching staff is young.....the teams mentality is off the charts "totally bought in" although on the defensive side they may be a bit unproven. I believe Pry is the key to a National Championship this year and I would really like to see him dig deep and pull out a top 10 defense and one of the top coaching jobs we've seen at Penn State in recent memory.

If he can, a National Championship is within reach.

There's no time like right now!

 

[KnightSlayer]

Maybe I don't understand how people determine if someone is a star or not. I think when you have a DT like Givens, who comes in his freshman year, starts 6 games and has as many tackles as either of your starting DTs, has more tackles for loss, has more sacks, fum recoveries, pass deflections and pass breakups, he damn well qualifies as as a star.

 

[BBrown]

All good points, especially the reference to the improvement on special teams which is one of the main reasons we were able to win the Big Ten last year.

The only point I take exception with, would be having the 6th or 7th ranked defense in the BIG and one of the top 3 teams overall. I would consider that a failure. Don't get me wrong, I think logically you could make those arguments, but that is not what this coaching staff and specifically CJF is counting on. I believe CJF thinks he has a Playoff Caliber team that can make a run at the National Championship; and he understands there is no time like the present.

Our once in a generation back is most likely leaving this year. The offense will likely look completely different a year from now with a different Offensive Coordinator taking the reigns (most likely).

My point to the whole post was as much as I like Pry, this is the year he really earns his coaching chops. Moorhead is a made man and "in-waiting" for the next big head coaching opportunity to present itself. Brent Pry has not yet proven himself as a defensive coordinator........if Brent Pry wants to follow down the same road as Moorhead and become the Head Coach that everyone says he can be, he needs to do something special with this defense. He needs a way to field a top 20 defense this year, and more likely, a top 10 defense if we are to get a legitimate shot at the title.

The coaching staff is young.....the teams mentality is off the charts "totally bought in" although on the defensive side they may be a bit unproven. I believe Pry is the key to a National Championship this year and I would really like to see him dig deep and pull out a top 10 defense and one of the top coaching jobs we've seen at Penn State in recent memory.

If he can, a National Championship is within reach.

There's no time like right now!

JMO, but if JoMo does leave after this year (personally I don't think he does). with the success this offense has had under this system I think we go no further than Fordham to look for his replacement.

 

[marisa45]

Maybe I don't understand how people determine if someone is a star or not. I think when you have a DT like Givens, who comes in his freshman year, starts 6 games and has as many tackles as either of your starting DTs, has more tackles for loss, has more sacks, fum recoveries, pass deflections and pass breakups, he damn well qualifies as as a star.

Kevin Givens is a great example but he is not a star yet. I personally see a lot of Jordan Hill in Kevin Givens (although Givens is clearly a stronger "little Hercules" type player). He's squatty like Jordan with good movement skills. I'd still like him to weigh closer to 300 pounds to be a little harder to move; but if he makes the Jordan Hill leap from Junior to Senior year he will be a star.

Hopefully this is the year he does it, but you don't typically see a guy make the jump unless he's an every down guy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jordan Hill was a starter both his Junior and Senior years.

 

[marisa45]

JMO, but if JoMo does leave after this year (personally I don't think he does). with the success this offense has had under this system I think we go no further than Fordham to look for his replacement.

There's always a dropoff from a "special" coordinator. It took a couple of years for Urbie to recover after he lost Tom Herman. The "special" guys are hard to replace. After what he did in Connecticut and while at Fordham and last year at Penn State, Moorhead is clearly in the "special" category. There's always a bit of a dropoff when you lose someone like Moorhead.

 

[bdgan]

Maybe I don't understand how people determine if someone is a star or not. I think when you have a DT like Givens, who comes in his freshman year, starts 6 games and has as many tackles as either of your starting DTs, has more tackles for loss, has more sacks, fum recoveries, pass deflections and pass breakups, he damn well qualifies as as a star.

PSU 2016 BiG defensive stats:

Scoring 8th
Yards per game allowed 8th
Run defense 8th
Pass defense 11th
1st downs allowed 9th
Sacks 2nd

PSU must also replace 5 starters from last year (their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, 6th, and 8th leading tacklers). That's why I said 6th or 7th his fall. I agree that Givens is a very good prospect.

FWIW OSU has 8 defensive players on the pre season 1st or 2nd team all conference list. Wisconsin has 5. Michigan has 2 (both 1st team). PSU has 1 (M. Allen 1st team).

Like I said, PSU should be near the top on offense and kicking. I just don't think they'll be at the top on defense. 4th or 5th would be great but I'm predicting with 6th or 7th and hoping for better. Maybe if they stay healthy.

 

[marisa45]

PSU 2016 BiG defensive stats:

Scoring 8th
Yards per game allowed 8th
Run defense 8th
Pass defense 11th
1st downs allowed 9th
Sacks 2nd

PSU must also replace 5 starters from last year (their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, 6th, and 8th leading tacklers). That's why I said 6th or 7th his fall. I agree that Givens is a very good prospect.

FWIW OSU has 8 defensive players on the pre season 1st or 2nd team all conference list. Wisconsin has 5. Michigan has 2 (both 1st team). PSU has 1 (M. Allen 1st team).

Like I said, PSU should be near the top on offense and kicking. I just don't think they'll be at the top on defense. 4th or 5th would be great but I'm predicting with 6th or 7th and hoping for better. Maybe if they stay healthy.

Agree, looking at those stats it would take a bit of a rabbit-out-of-a-hat type job. They also point to a less than stellar product on defense last year......like it or not.

I'm hoping our boy Pry has it in him! It isn't even unprecedented on this team......a version of this staff did it in 2014, when they went from 49th to 2nd. Miracles do happen!

I remember cutups from practices that year and there seemed to be a real urgency with Shoop (reminiscent of Paterno in 2005). He seemed to grasp the challenge in front of him. His answer....lean on a few key guys to lead from within (Hull-Zettel-Allen-Amos and locker room leaders like Von Walker) all had lights out years. That year it was pure survival based on how terrible our offense was, this year it's for the glory of college football!

Here's hoping Pry can do it solo this year. They probably won't ever read this but I'm throwing down the gauntlet for Pry.

Find your guys.......and make it better!

 

[tboyer]

My point to the whole post was as much as I like Pry, this is the year he really earns his coaching chops. Moorhead is a made man and "in-waiting" for the next big head coaching opportunity to present itself. Brent Pry has not yet proven himself as a defensive coordinator........if Brent Pry wants to follow down the same road as Moorhead and become the Head Coach that everyone says he can be, he needs to do something special with this defense. He needs to find a way to field a top 20 defense this year, and more likely, a top 10 defense if we are to get a legitimate shot at the title.

A top 20 statistical defense is achievable if they stay healthy. One thing that will help the defense statistically this year is that the offense probably has the capability to be a consistent ball-control long-drive kind of offense, which for the most part they were not last year. And hopefully we see that in the 1st half of games.

The D is probably good enough. There were plenty of quarters when this defense played like a top 20 defense last year -- and almost everybody returns stronger and more experienced.

I'm not sure I like your "hot seat" implication regarding Pry. I'm sure everyone on the team knows this year presents special opportunities. From every indication they are all driving as hard as they can because everyone on the team knows what's possible.

That said, if this season met everybody's highest hopes and PSU were matched up with, say, Alabama in a playoff, it is a lot of former 3 stars on this PSU D going against a lot of 5 stars. The athletic matchups would not be pretty for PSU. Hopefully it would not be a replay of the 2009 Rose Bowl blowout -- this PSU secondary is a lot deeper and more athletic than 2008. But Alabama is Alabama. Heck, Ohio State will probably look a lot more like a normal (i.e. dominant) Ohio State this year.

As excited as we all are about this season, we should enjoy it and not think it's the last change PSU will have for a championship. The way the program is going, it's the first of many years they will be really good. Every year will be different, every year will have relative strengths and weaknesses.

I think the enjoy-each-game philosophy is the best one. But my hope -- more than anything that can happen this season -- is that over the longer term PSU finally becomes what it could never be before -- a reload type program that is contending for the B1G every year like Ohio State and Wisconsin.

 

[KnightSlayer]

PSU 2016 BiG defensive stats:

Scoring 8th
Yards per game allowed 8th
Run defense 8th
Pass defense 11th
1st downs allowed 9th
Sacks 2nd

PSU must also replace 5 starters from last year (their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, 6th, and 8th leading tacklers). That's why I said 6th or 7th his fall. I agree that Givens is a very good prospect.

FWIW OSU has 8 defensive players on the pre season 1st or 2nd team all conference list. Wisconsin has 5. Michigan has 2 (both 1st team). PSU has 1 (M. Allen 1st team).

Like I said, PSU should be near the top on offense and kicking. I just don't think they'll be at the top on defense. 4th or 5th would be great but I'm predicting with 6th or 7th and hoping for better. Maybe if they stay healthy.

Only 3 starters lost from last year, 4 if you include John Reid, were in our top 11 tacklers. Bell(2nd), Golden(4th), Sickles(7th), Reid(9th). Cabinda was 3rd. Brandon Smith was 6th.

 

[tboyer]

PSU 2016 BiG defensive stats:

Scoring 8th
Yards per game allowed 8th
Run defense 8th
Pass defense 11th
1st downs allowed 9th
Sacks 2nd

It would be interesting what those stats would look like if you took out Michigan, which was kind of an outlier because of PSU running out of LBers. I bet it would put PSU closer to 6th. Add in the experience factor (remember a year ago this was an extremely young D), and an offense that can control the ball better in the 1st half, and this D might be able to get to 4th or 5th in the conference. Which is a national Top 20 D. That looks achievable to me if everybody does their part and key people stay healthy. Really there's no reason they won't be quite a bit better than last year if the DEs are as good as Spencer is saying they're going to be.

 

[marisa45]

A top 20 statistical defense is achievable if they stay healthy. One thing that will help the defense statistically this year is that the offense probably has the capability to be a consistent ball-control long-drive kind of offense, which for the most part they were not last year. And hopefully we see that in the 1st half of games.

The D is probably good enough. There were plenty of quarters when this defense played like a top 20 defense last year -- and almost everybody returns stronger and more experienced.

I'm not sure I like your "hot seat" implication regarding Pry. I'm sure everyone on the team knows this year presents special opportunities. From every indication they are all driving as hard as they can because everyone on the team knows what's possible.

That said, if this season met everybody's highest hopes and PSU were matched up with, say, Alabama in a playoff, it is a lot of former 3 stars on this PSU D going against a lot of 5 stars. The athletic matchups would not be pretty for PSU. Hopefully it would not be a replay of the 2009 Rose Bowl blowout -- this PSU secondary is a lot deeper and more athletic than 2008. But Alabama is Alabama. Heck, Ohio State will probably look a lot more like a normal (i.e. dominant) Ohio State this year.

As excited as we all are about this season, we should enjoy it and not think it's the last change PSU will have for a championship. The way the program is going, it's the first of many years they will be really good. Every year will be different, every year will have relative strengths and weaknesses.

I think the enjoy-each-game philosophy is the best one. But my hope -- more than anything that can happen this season -- is that over the longer term PSU finally becomes what it could never be before -- a reload type program that is contending for the B1G every year like Ohio State and Wisconsin.

That term--was not mentioned on purpose due to the 7 page, 150 post thread of the same name referring to our very own CJF last year, penned by yours truly. A post which turned out to illustrate the support our head coach had going into his 3rd year (rather than eroding it which many, at the time, thought was the intent).

The press stories that were written and the Barbour "walk back" that happened just a couple of days later was not a coincidence. We all know how much the press reads this board.

I like CJF's loyalty to his coaches and I appreciate the way he constantly provided cover for Pry throughout last year (that is what a good boss does). But sometimes, guys need to stand on their own. Everyone in big-time College Football last year knew Pry was a bit of an unknown commodity. I would argue he still is.

Sometimes a little well timed pressure (though I agree, not to the level of using "that phrase") is warranted. I believe our coordinators should know we have certain expectations at Penn State, and strong defensive football is certainly one of them.

I also believe the proper expectations for this year's team should be National Championship, not Big Ten Championship, as CJF himself stated. And the correct expectation for a second year defensive coordinator would be "improvement" not necessarily Top 20 or Top 10 improvement (to be fair).....internal goal versus external goal. Still, this coaching staff has shown it can indeed achieve more than what it is expected to achieve and it needs to if it wants to win a National Championship.

Who knows, maybe one of our own "beat writers" will pick it up as a nugget of a question, and a little well timed "reminder" (perhaps a tad bit of pressure??) will be a good thing and have the desired effect.

It kind of worked out that way last year for CJF. The "BEST" always respond to being challenged.

Final thought: I really want to believe in the "have fun" method to championship teams......Cael has me buying in more than anyone but I can't shake my old school mentality. I still believe in getting up in someone's grill from time to time to make your point.

 

[bdgan]

One thing that will help the defense statistically this year is that the offense probably has the capability to be a consistent ball-control long-drive kind of offense, which for the most part they were not last year.

That's a good point. Long sustained drives keep the defense off the field. In fact that's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most this season. I don't think the 50-50 balls were "luck" but I do think they are risky. Hopefully we don't have to rely on so many 3rd and long passes this year.

 

[tboyer]

That's a good point. Long sustained drives keep the defense off the field. In fact that's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most this season. I don't think the 50-50 balls were "luck" but I do think they are risky. Hopefully we don't have to rely on so many 3rd and long passes this year.

Last year was kind of an oddity. Because PSU had trouble at OL and everybody knew it, everybody basically took the same defensive philosophy -- stop Barkley and you stopped PSU. Which meant LOTS of single coverage on the PSU wideouts and Gesicki, who were just too big for the typical B1G corners to single cover.

This year defenses will have to play PSU more honestly.

I really believe Moorhead's philosophy -- more than other O-coordinators -- is to not dictate to the defense, but adjust to the defense. His philosophy isn't to throw deep per se but to throw deep when there's a mismatch. In at least two games they schemed to get Godwin on the other team's inexperienced backup corner and then toasted him.

Juwan Johnson's performance in early games is really key. If Johnson looks like he can do a lot of the same things Godwin did, I bet opposing defenses will deploy safeties to help out their corners a lot more than last year. And that in turn will mean Moorehead calls more underneath throws, more screens, more throws to backs out of the backfield.

 

[BisbeeMike]

Last year was kind of an oddity. Because PSU had trouble at OL and everybody knew it, everybody basically took the same defensive philosophy -- stop Barkley and you stopped PSU. Which meant LOTS of single coverage on the PSU wideouts and Gesicki, who were just too big for the typical B1G corners to single cover.

This year defenses will have to play PSU more honestly.

I really believe Moorhead's philosophy -- more than other O-coordinators -- is to not dictate to the defense, but adjust to the defense. His philosophy isn't to throw deep per se but to throw deep when there's a mismatch.

Juwan Johnson's performance in early games is really key. If Johnson looks like he can do a lot of the same things Godwin did, I bet opposing defenses will deploy safeties to help out their corners a lot more than last year. And that in turn will mean Moorehead calls more underneath throws, more screens, more throws to backs out of the backfield.

Good post. You made some good points here.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think the D stats last year are skewed quite a bit by depth and injuries at LB, particularly in the month of September. Also worth noting that USC in the Rose Bowl was able to mount their comeback when Bell went out (and Bowen didn't play at all).

LB depth still may be a little bit of a concern if there's injury issues, but the biggest ? with this year's D going into the season is who will emerge as the pass rushers to replace Sickels and Schwan. I think Shareef Miller was very close to these guys by the end of the season. With Miller, Brown, Buchholz, Simmons, Toney and Matos, there's enough talent there to alleviate the pass rush concern.

The interior or the DL looks very solid...maybe best depth we've had here in a decade.

Yep, I agree. The DE's are the key this year. Our DT's played well last year and are all back, bigger and stronger, with most of them going into their 2nd year of significant playing time. Most college players make the biggest leap forward in their 2nd year of play. Baring major injuries the LB's will be as good as last year and without significant injuries that will translate into more consistent LB play. There were only a few games last year when the LB's were all healthy and actually playing due to the numerous injuries and a suspension. Reid is a big loss, but we have more DB talent on the roster now than I can remember, going back into the 1960's. The DB's have enough experience, with multiple, athletic Safety's competing for the open spot opposite Allen, and there are many talented CB's that will get a chance to see the field. CJF is more comfortable playing young players at positions further away from the LOS, and I look for players such as Wade and Castro-Fields to contribute to more athletic play, more INT's, and increased man-to-man coverage.

But it would have been great to have Sickels back to lead the DE's. Sure need some DE's to grow up quickly. I'm really more concerned about how our light DE crew, except for Buchholz, will hold up against the better running B10 teams such as oh-high-ya.....

 

[Option Bob]

I would like to see more interceptions from the secondary. Allen has none in 3 years! Apke has 1, Haley 3, and Campbell 2. That gives our starting secondary a total of 6 interceptions in their entire careers so far.

Coach Franklin is vastly upgrading the defensive backs, so improvement is imminent, but 6 interceptions from 4 players is a good reason for poor defensive stats.