FC: 247 Sports ranks the Top 25 best college football facilities....

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

If you want to save a click, Penn State isn't on the list. The B1G is represented by Northwestern (17), Michigan (12), and Ohio State (5). The SEC has 10 teams on the list. It's rounded out by #1 Clemson, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Oregon, USC, Washington, Florida State, Texas Tech, TCU, Texas, Washington, and North Carolina. While you can't draw a straight line from recruiting results to facilities, it's worth noting of 247's Top 16 classes for 2020, only one school was not in the top 25 for facilities - yup, Penn State. In total, there were six teams with Top 25 classes who did not have Top 25 facilities - Penn State, Georgia Tech, Nebraska, Mississippi State, Stanford, and Miami.

For those who know, what do they mean when they say 'facilities'? Is it locker rooms? Quality of life enhancements (PlayStations, hot tubs, wiffle ball fields, nap rooms etc.)? Gym equipment? Recruiting photo studios? On field analytic rooms (I heard one of the things CJF wants is a state of the art QB room)? Practice facilities? All of the above? When Penn State upgraded it's locker room, it got a lot of attention. Where are Penn State's big deficiencies and where will the money he wants for 'new facilities' go? What is the best bang for the buck? On the one hand, it's remarkable he's doing as well as he is with such apparently shoddy facilities. On the other, does anyone see this ending with nap rooms and wiffle ball fields? Hell, South Carolina was #6 on that list.

 

[BobPSU92]

Sandy’s got this.

 

[Roswell-Blue]

If you want to save a click, Penn State isn't on the list. The B1G is represented by Northwestern (17), Michigan (12), and Ohio State (5). The SEC has 10 teams on the list. It's rounded out by #1 Clemson, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Oregon, USC, Washington, Florida State, Texas Tech, TCU, Texas, Washington, and North Carolina. While you can't draw a straight line from recruiting results to facilities, it's worth noting of 247's Top 16 classes for 2020, only one school was not in the top 25 for facilities - yup, Penn State. In total, there were six teams with Top 25 classes who did not have Top 25 facilities - Penn State, Georgia Tech, Nebraska, Mississippi State, Stanford, and Miami.

For those who know, what do they mean when they say 'facilities'? Is it locker rooms? Quality of life enhancements (PlayStations, hot tubs, wiffle ball fields, nap rooms etc.)? Gym equipment? Recruiting photo studios? On field analytic rooms (I heard one of the things CJF wants is a state of the art QB room)? Practice facilities? All of the above? When Penn State upgraded it's locker room, it got a lot of attention. Where are Penn State's big deficiencies and where will the money he wants for 'new facilities' go? What is the best bang for the buck? On the one hand, it's remarkable he's doing as well as he is with such apparently shoddy facilities. On the other, does anyone see this ending with nap rooms and wiffle ball fields? Hell, South Carolina was #6 on that list.

Absolutely great questions. I know this past September Nebraska announced the summer 2020 ground breaking for its new $155 million new football facility that will make it amongst the best in the nation and will "create the future". I read that the promise of it helped with this year's strong recruiting class after two straight losing seasons. If "Sandy's got this", she better get her butt moving as the longer you delay keeping up with the Joneses the farther behind you're going to fall. You may not want or be able to keep up with Clemson, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Texas A&M, but you should want to match Northwestern, Nebraska, South Carolina, etc., and stay ahead of others in the B10. Yes, I'm sure there is a limit as to how much you want spend to keep up, but you can't have your foot on the brake and gas peddle at the same time. If Franklin does decide to leave I'm willing to bet a lack of equitable commitment is what makes him. Recruiting is challenging enough given the insane sacrifice, hard work and commitment it requires.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Absolutely great questions. I know this past September Nebraska announced the summer 2020 ground breaking for its new $155 million new football facility that will make it amongst the best in the nation and will "create the future". I read that the promise of it helped with this year's strong recruiting class after two straight losing seasons. If "Sandy's got this", she better get her butt moving as the longer you delay keeping up with the Joneses the farther behind you're going to fall. You may not want or be able to keep up with Clemson, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Texas A&M, but you should want to match Northwestern, Nebraska, South Carolina, etc., and stay ahead of others in the B10. Yes, I'm sure there is a limit as to how much you want spend to keep up, but you can't have your foot on the brake and gas peddle at the same time. If Franklin does decide to leave I'm willing to bet a lack of equitable commitment is what makes him. Recruiting is challenging enough given the insane sacrifice, hard work and commitment it requires.

Both USC and FSU on the Top 25 list...

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

The funding problem could easily be solved by recognizing JoePa publicly and naming the facility fund raising campaign after him!
Until that happens, I will continue to encourage alums that I am in contact with to give NOTHING!

 

[Bardo]

The funding problem could easily be solved by recognizing JoePa publicly and naming the facility fund raising campaign after him!
Until that happens, I will continue to encourage alums that I am in contact with to give NOTHING!

We should be ashamed of ourselves that we don’t have the best of everything. This golden goose is $hitting out $50M+ eggs annually. Are we pretending to be PennDOT, & run it into the ground. I know we have a battalion of useless chiefs, but we will never get over the hump unless we stay up with the Jones’. Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[PSU.:.]

I found another list where PSU was 19 so it's just matter of opinion

 

[rigi11]

The funding problem could easily be solved by recognizing JoePa publicly and naming the facility fund raising campaign after him!
Until that happens, I will continue to encourage alums that I am in contact with to give NOTHING!

Fine, but stop crying about psu competing with the big boys.

 

[Roswell-Blue]

The funding problem could easily be solved by recognizing JoePa publicly and naming the facility fund raising campaign after him!
Until that happens, I will continue to encourage alums that I am in contact with to give NOTHING!

I don't know the right or wrong of this. On some level I get where you're coming from, but that's also the crazy part to this situation. If success with honor is true beyond a good sounding ideal, would Joe want the program he built and loved hurt and sacrificed to prove a point? What's more important - his honor and our need to be right or continuing to improve the health of the program? If justice for the deep wrongs the BOT did to Joe and his legacy is the encouragement of the fiscal starvation of the program where it increasingly harms our ability to compete, then that's a fragile justice. Some times you only get two choices. Maybe the right choice here, and the one that truly honors Joe is to love what he loved and to help make it the best it can be - despite the unimaginable pain the BOT caused him and his family.

 

[Nitt1300]

I don't know the right or wrong of this. On some level I get where you're coming from, but that's also the crazy part to this situation. If success with honor is true beyond a good sounding ideal, would Joe want the program he built and loved hurt and sacrificed to prove a point? What's more important - his honor and our need to be right or continuing to improve the health of the program? If justice for the deep wrongs the BOT did to Joe and his legacy is the encouragement of the fiscal starvation of the program where it increasingly harms our ability to compete, then that's a fragile justice. Some times you only get two choices. Maybe the right choice here, and the one that truly honors Joe is to love what he loved and to help make it the best it can be - despite the unimaginable pain the BOT caused him and his family.

Another question I would ask is would Joe even have supported these kinds of expenditures to begin with?

At what point do alums and fans say "ENOUGH"? Where did we get the idea that the way to success (let alone the teaching of values) is to spend huge amounts of money so that 17-18 year old kids are sufficiently impressed that they are willing to grace our presence?

I get it that James HAS to stay in the arms race- that's part of his job. The job of administrators and alumni -everywhere- should be to say "no".

 

[BBrown]

Another question I would ask is would Joe even have supported these kinds of expenditures to begin with?

At what point do alums and fans say "ENOUGH"? Where did we get the idea that the way to success (let alone the teaching of values) is to spend huge amounts of money so that 17-18 year old kids are sufficiently impressed that they are willing to grace our presence?

I get it that James HAS to stay in the arms race- that's part of his job. The job of administrators and alumni -everywhere- should be to say "no".

I'll venture out on that limb, cause I think its pretty thick, and say no.
For as much as we all liked Joe he let things slide or didn't consider them as important.
I'll start with weight training...
Joe was a "visionary" but in his later years did not see the arms race that was brewing.

 

[Raffycorn]

I'll venture out on that limb, cause I think its pretty thick, and say no.
For as much as we all liked Joe he let things slide or didn't consider them as important.
I'll start with weight training...
Joe was a "visionary" but in his later years did not see the arms race that was brewing.

It depends what version of Joe you’re talking about. Prime Joe - the one who pushed for Holuba Hall in the 1980s (one of the first in the country IIRC) and what was, when it was constructed, a totally state of the art Lasch Building in the late 90s/early 00s - very much understood the advantage and benefit in having the best facilities in the country. I think a lot of fans have some recency bias with Joe where we remember the octogenarian version more than the cutting edge version from a few decades prior.

 

[PS4814]

Another question I would ask is would Joe even have supported these kinds of expenditures to begin with?

At what point do alums and fans say "ENOUGH"? Where did we get the idea that the way to success (let alone the teaching of values) is to spend huge amounts of money so that 17-18 year old kids are sufficiently impressed that they are willing to grace our presence?

I get it that James HAS to stay in the arms race- that's part of his job. The job of administrators and alumni -everywhere- should be to say "no".

Except that’s now how it works in reality and if you want the team to punch with the big boys it’ll cost ya. I mean I remember awhile back when it was shared that O$U funds their band to the tune of 5x more than the blue band which is why they’re able to put on such amazing halftime shows. If they’re willing to commit that much to their freaking band it goes to show they’re going all out for the team.

 

[MtNittany]

24/7? Has anyone without a huge agenda ever ranked the top 25 team facilities? Anyone ranking Trailerhassee ahead of PSU at this point isn't being honest.

 

[PS4814]

The funding problem could easily be solved by recognizing JoePa publicly and naming the facility fund raising campaign after him!
Until that happens, I will continue to encourage alums that I am in contact with to give NOTHING!

Thought experiment here - what if JoePa had asked for the facilities as Franklin is doing - would you have given until it hurt?

 

[BBrown]

It depends what version of Joe you’re talking about. Prime Joe - the one who pushed for Holuba Hall in the 1980s (one of the first in the country IIRC) and what was, when it was constructed, a totally state of the art Lasch Building in the late 90s/early 00s - very much understood the advantage and benefit in having the best facilities in the country. I think a lot of fans have some recency bias with Joe where we remember the octogenarian version more than the cutting edge version from a few decades prior.

Yes which is why I said..."Joe was a "visionary" but in his later years did not see the arms race that was brewing."

 

[Judge Smails]

Is it the same people saying we shouldn't spend so much on facilities, complaining about all the assistant AD's while at the same time saying how it is "unacceptable" to lose an in-state 5 star to Ohio State or lose to a Top 20 team on the road? Are they the same people making fun of Franklin's desire to get to an "elite" program and complaining we aren't there yet?

Be consistent. If you are against spending the money to get to where the elite programs are, you shouldn't EVER be complaining about not getting to that level on the field. Because spending money is what it is going to take. THAT is what gets you the 5 star recruits. The OSU's, Alabama's, Clemson's, Georgia's have top notch facilities and rake in the 5 stars.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Thought experiment here - what if JoePa had asked for the facilities as Franklin is doing - would you have given until it hurt?

Wasn't Joe's salary something ridiculous like $500,000 a year? I think this was when Ferentz was making something like $2.5mm a year.

 

[Mixolydian]

Another question I would ask is would Joe even have supported these kinds of expenditures to begin with?

At what point do alums and fans say "ENOUGH"? Where did we get the idea that the way to success (let alone the teaching of values) is to spend huge amounts of money so that 17-18 year old kids are sufficiently impressed that they are willing to grace our presence?

I get it that James HAS to stay in the arms race- that's part of his job. The job of administrators and alumni -everywhere- should be to say "no".

What you are proposing sounds more like honor with hopefully success.

Spend the money, recruit the best players, win on the field, graduate kids who become successful contributors to society.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

24/7? Has anyone without a huge agenda ever ranked the top 25 team facilities? Anyone ranking Trailerhassee ahead of PSU at this point isn't being honest.

FSU's ranking is based on the fact that they announced plans for a new football only facility last year.

As part of a new five-year plan announced in September 2018, Florida State will join college football's arms race with a stand-alone football facility that will be built adjacent to the Dunlap Athletic Training Complex at a cost of $60 million. The Seminoles upgraded their current locker rooms at Doak Campbell Stadium in 2014 and has since added a nice player's lounge which puts FSU near the top of the ACC (but behind others of similar program prestige). With noticeable enhancements elsewhere nationally, the Seminoles tumbled a couple spots in these rankings since last season.

 

[AWS1022]

The funding problem could easily be solved by recognizing JoePa publicly and naming the facility fund raising campaign after him!
Until that happens, I will continue to encourage alums that I am in contact with to give NOTHING!

So hold the current coaches and players hostage? The best way to honor Joe is for the program to become even more successful proving that what Joe built was too solid a foundation to tear down.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Also of note in the article is that Arizona is getting ready to plunk down $200mm for facility/stadium upgrades....

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Three things:

1) These ridiculous, subjective rankings - put together my abject morons - are, by default, ridiculous, subjective and moronic. So there's that

2) Just to clarify, JVP's compensation was never "$500,000ish, at a time when others were being paid $2,000,000". The only figure PSU (was FORCED to) release in those times was JVP's compensation that was subject to PSERS - which, as it is for most FB coaches, was but a small part of his total comp (One could explain in more detail, but probably to no avail).
FWIW: JVP's compensation for being PSU's football coach, at the time in question, was +/- $2,000,000 ish.


3) AND THIS IS THE RELEVANT ISSUE TO THE OP:
On that list - without going into each school in detail - PSU has SPENT more than most of those programs vav Football Facilities. A lot more than most of them.
At that point, for an non-idiot, the OP discussion is OVER. DEAD. DONE..... and a new discussion - if one is concerned about PSU's situation - should be taken up.
(I have no expectations that it actually WILL end the OP discussion - nor initiate an actual relevant and meaningful discussion - but there it is )

If one wants to argue that PSU does not have equal or better facilities to all but, at most, a few schools nationwide - knowing that they have spent more $$$$ (generally, a LOT more $$$) on those facilities - what SHOULD the discussion focus on?
One would think that is obvious enough to be a "hypothetical".... but I doubt that it is. Sad. Sad because that level of obliviousness is EXACTLY why such situations go un-remedied.

It - actually having the meaningful discussion - would also, in the case of Penn State, likely shed some light on the REAL problems. Real problems that may very well lead to a true and significant "deficit" vav resources for athletics as we move forward.
But.... enjoy, and carry on!

Some good insight and clarification; thanks.

1) It matters to recruits, obviously, so subjective or not these kinds of rankings matter.

2) What portion of CJF's salary is subject to PSERS? Is it about the same as Joe's?

3) Know where you are going with this. Feel free to lead the way.

 

[Mixolydian]

Three things:

1) These ridiculous, subjective rankings - put together my abject morons - are, by default, ridiculous, subjective and moronic. So there's that

2) Just to clarify, JVP's compensation was never "$500,000ish, at a time when others were being paid $2,000,000". The only figure PSU (was FORCED to) release in those times was JVP's compensation that was subject to PSERS - which, as it is for most FB coaches, was but a small part of his total comp (One could explain in more detail, but probably to no avail).
FWIW: JVP's compensation for being PSU's football coach, at the time in question, was +/- $2,000,000 ish.


3) AND THIS IS THE RELEVANT ISSUE TO THE OP:
On that list - without going into each school in detail - PSU has SPENT more than most of those programs vav Football Facilities. A lot more than most of them.
At that point, for an non-idiot, the OP discussion is OVER. DEAD. DONE..... and a new discussion - if one is concerned about PSU's situation - should be taken up.
(I have no expectations that it actually WILL end the OP discussion - nor initiate an actual relevant and meaningful discussion - but there it is )

If one wants to argue that PSU does not have equal or better facilities to all but, at most, a few schools nationwide - knowing that they have spent more $$$$ (generally, a LOT more $$$) on those facilities - what SHOULD the discussion focus on?
One would think that is obvious enough to be a "hypothetical".... but I doubt that it is. Sad. Sad because that level of obliviousness is EXACTLY why such situations go un-remedied.

It - actually having the meaningful discussion - would also, in the case of Penn State, likely shed some light on the REAL problems. Real problems that may very well lead to a true and significant "deficit" vav resources for athletics as we move forward.
But.... enjoy, and carry on!

I’m game. Let’s have the discussion. You are suggesting that through either incompetence or something nefarious or more likely both, we are not getting bang for the facility buck. Incidentally, are we talking athletic facilities overall or just football?

You are a numbers guy so I trust that it can be clearly shown we have outspent just about everyone yet have athletic/football facilities that are at least a couple of tiers down. Not being familiar with the institutional governance process at PSU. Who makes the decisions for how the money is spent? Who is responsible for executing the plan (the AD? A facilities group? Etc.)? Is there any accountability post the spend decision being made? There are many other questions, but let’s get the ball rolling....

 

[bvillebaron]

Another question I would ask is would Joe even have supported these kinds of expenditures to begin with?

At what point do alums and fans say "ENOUGH"? Where did we get the idea that the way to success (let alone the teaching of values) is to spend huge amounts of money so that 17-18 year old kids are sufficiently impressed that they are willing to grace our presence?

I get it that James HAS to stay in the arms race- that's part of his job. The job of administrators and alumni -everywhere- should be to say "no".

Then don’t complain when PSU can’t keep up with the big boys. If you don’t think Clemson’s Taj Mahal facilities aren’t a major recruiting tool, you are kidding yourself. You know Clemson, the team that got 7 of the top 29 players this year.

 

[Nitt1300]

Who wins these spending contests?

-favored contractors
-anybody in line for kickbacks from those contractors

 

[Nitt1300]

Then don’t complain when PSU can’t keep up with the big boys. If you don’t think Clemson’s Taj Mahal facilities aren’t a major recruiting tool, you are kidding yourself. You know Clemson, the team that got 7 of the top 29 players this year.

I understand how it works- that doesn't make it right.

Write all the checks you want, and I'll do the same.

 

[BBrown]

Who wins these spending contests?

-favored contractors
-anybody in line for kickbacks from those contractors

Depends. At PSU it would be Dambly enterprises.
At Clemson, Bama, OSU, OK, Georgia it would be the Football team but then thats only because I don't know their BOTS. I'm sure each and everyone has a Dambly clone on it.

 

[Roswell-Blue]

Another question I would ask is would Joe even have supported these kinds of expenditures to begin with?

At what point do alums and fans say "ENOUGH"? Where did we get the idea that the way to success (let alone the teaching of values) is to spend huge amounts of money so that 17-18 year old kids are sufficiently impressed that they are willing to grace our presence?

I get it that James HAS to stay in the arms race- that's part of his job. The job of administrators and alumni -everywhere- should be to say "no".

Again very good and reasonable questions. Like I said, I don't know the right or wrong of this. My reply to Nittany Ziggy was his simply putting it all on the ill will created by the Sandusky scandal and the BOT's refusal to honor Joe. That just seems too small and changes nothing. At some point we're going to have to start wrestling with what healing and reconciliation looks like. And that's always more about us rather than them.

Your questions of values, limits, and the right to refuse are much larger. I do know that if everyone else has made a commitment to do and be something more and you decide you don't want to "play", then you're going to fall behind. Hence, my statement of having one foot on the gas and the other on the brake. It simply won't work.

The idea of spending huge amounts of money to impress 17-18 year olds to "grace our presence" is distasteful, but it's the world we created. It's the kind of children and culture we've created where the optimal world view is always "more" vs enough. I wish it weren't so, but I know people on this board will be howling mad if our football standard is simply to be average. Like T.S. Eliot said in the Four Quartets - "Human kind can't stand very much reality". Looks like Nebraska and others have figured out their reality. What does ours look like?

 

[bvillebaron]

I understand how it works- that doesn't make it right.

Write all the checks you want, and I'll do the same.

Never said it was “right”, just that’s the way it is. What PSU needs is for some ridiculously wealthy donor like Boone Pickens to donate the money.

 

[danvillenit]

I’m not sure what the debate is. If they want to be a top 10 program PSU will have to participate in the facilities arms race. Joe Paterno at 47 would have been pushing just as hard as Franklin for upgrades.

 

[bmw199]

3) No thanks.
Been there.... done that.... know how it turns out .
"Idiocracy" is the immovable object that can stop even an unstoppable force.

I get what you are saying. I am closing in on the giving period of my life, probably still 5-10 years away, depending on certain things shake out for me and my fiance, but one of the top things on my list is Penn State football because of my passion and love for it. I don't want my money to go to kick backs and graft.

1. Is it the case PA is so corrupt the premium must paid? I doubt that as there i no monopoly on corruption anywhere. I would expect it is the people in charge. The problem with that one is that we can't not move forward in the arms race, so we can't wait them out and put a moratorium on spending and construction until we have the "right people."
2. How do we move forward to keep up with the Bamas and Buckeyes, but still not get fleeced in the process?

Maybe I am just not a non-idiot again on this majestic winters morn?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Yes which is why I said..."Joe was a "visionary" but in his later years did not see the arms race that was brewing."

I think he saw it and didn't want to be in it.

 

[TheGLOV]

Both USC and FSU on the Top 25 list...

U$C and F$U

Fixed it for ya!

 

[phillybillyreprise]

The race to have the number one facilities for football is the same as cities luring pro teams ( or should I have said “stealing”) with new or promises of new stadiums and cities bidding to be the new headquarters of ____[fill-in the blank]_____ (Amazon) with tax incentives. Those with money seem to have the advantage.

 

[psu00]

If there ever was a team that could get away without the ridiculous spending sprees over facilities it’s probably PSU who has always been known as a non flashy team and program. It’s part of the culture.

IMO they should have nice facilities that are up to date but I wouldn’t want to see each locker with its personal gaming system or a lazy river through athletic housing etc. You get to a point where it’s just a ridiculous waste of money on nonsense. Now, some 17/18 year olds may be all into it but at some point adults have to run the show. If that means a handful of 4-5*s each year don’t consider Penn St because they don’t have a personal sleeping pod at their locker (like LSU) then I’m fine with that.

 

[PS4814]

If there ever was a team that could get away without the ridiculous spending sprees over facilities it’s probably PSU who has always been known as a non flashy team and program. It’s part of the culture.

IMO they should have nice facilities that are up to date but I wouldn’t want to see each locker with its personal gaming system or a lazy river through athletic housing etc. You get to a point where it’s just a ridiculous waste of money on nonsense. Now, some 17/18 year olds may be all into it but at some point adults have to run the show. If that means a handful of 4-5*s each year don’t consider Penn St because they don’t have a personal sleeping pod at their locker (like LSU) then I’m fine with that.

So you’re okay with 5 fewer Micah Parson’s level players on the team? Then no bitching from you every year we don’t make the playoffs.

 

[Art]

I get what you are saying. I am closing in on the giving period of my life, probably still 5-10 years away, depending on certain things shake out for me and my fiance, but one of the top things on my list is Penn State football because of my passion and love for it. I don't want my money to go to kick backs and graft.

1. Is it the case PA is so corrupt the premium must paid? I doubt that as there i no monopoly on corruption anywhere. I would expect it is the people in charge. The problem with that one is that we can't not move forward in the arms race, so we can't wait them out and put a moratorium on spending and construction until we have the "right people."
2. How do we move forward to keep up with the Bamas and Buckeyes, but still not get fleeced in the process?

Maybe I am just not a non-idiot again on this majestic winters morn?

You start by having some leadership., and PSU doesn't. Failing that, you have donors willing to write large checks. No evidence of that either.

 

[Harrisburg Dave]

With college football inevitably going pro with pay for play it’s time for ending the facilities race with donor money. Football will pay for itself or it should go away.

alumni should put their money in academic facilities alone IMHO.

 

[Art]

So you’re okay with 5 fewer Micah Parson’s level players on the team? Then no bitching from you every year we don’t make the playoffs.

Chicken or egg type question: which came first at Bama and Clemson, competing for and winning championships, or spending large amounts on lavish facilities?