We did have mini skirts in the 60s but the love sure wasn't free!!!!!!
Financial Times: The US college debt bubble is becoming dangerous
- Thread starter BobPSU92
- Start date
....Some random thoughts.....
First, All schools have way too many Administrators and that goes for local public school districts as well. Many of these positions are no value added and should be eliminated
Second, Colleges have way too many degrees offered that are essentially worthless once you graduate with them, Kids don't realize until its to late that a degree in say Art History will not have much return on investment until they are 1000's in debt with no hope of repayment
Third, I agree with some other posts here that say the loans should be bankruptable and not backed by the government, that would force the burden onto he lenders and they would sop making these mega loans to kids who have no hope of repayment.
Fourth, Colleges should stop requiring students take so many gen ed classes just to get a degree, that would enable most to graduate within 2 or 3 years with a degree in their field of interest. Why do I need to take History and Philosophy classes if I am an Engineer! Not needed...stick to the necessities! Of course this would cause and elimination of cost of these classes all together and shrink the faculty and then enable lower costs...can't have that!
First, All schools have way too many Administrators and that goes for local public school districts as well. Many of these positions are no value added and should be eliminated
Second, Colleges have way too many degrees offered that are essentially worthless once you graduate with them, Kids don't realize until its to late that a degree in say Art History will not have much return on investment until they are 1000's in debt with no hope of repayment
Third, I agree with some other posts here that say the loans should be bankruptable and not backed by the government, that would force the burden onto he lenders and they would sop making these mega loans to kids who have no hope of repayment.
Fourth, Colleges should stop requiring students take so many gen ed classes just to get a degree, that would enable most to graduate within 2 or 3 years with a degree in their field of interest. Why do I need to take History and Philosophy classes if I am an Engineer! Not needed...stick to the necessities! Of course this would cause and elimination of cost of these classes all together and shrink the faculty and then enable lower costs...can't have that!
Fifth, there's no national pressure on universities to do any of those things you list, so they never will when they can continue to profit.
The problem with trying to educate students on what non college opportunities are out there is that you're trying to swim upstream against a generation (or more) of parents who had it drilled into their head that college is the only way to have a good life. Billy's parents don't want to hear that he should/could go to a community college, or a trade school. Billy is going to college, period. It's the default anymore, everyone goes to college. Why? Because it's just what you do. When 90%+ of your peers are going off to college it can be quite stigmatizing to a teenager to say they're going for an associates degree or to a trade school.
On the flip side because of the glut of college graduates many businesses are now requiring a college degree for positions like customer service or warehouse laborer.
We as a society need to raise the prestige of skilled trade jobs so the perceived shame of going into those professions no longer exists.
If MICROSOFT makes a profit, I know who that money belongs to - and where it goes.
If Apple Computer makes a profit, I know who that money belongs to - and where it goes.
Where do Penn State's Profits go?
Currently - members of the PBA - not the bowlers either.
Last edited:
We've talked about that before, I think. I was on Snyder 3 from fall 76-spring 77 and then Snyder 4 from fall 77-winter 78, as I was in Germany spring term 1978 as an exchange student. I was pretty busy too (chem major), but always caught Star Trek on the NY channel after dinner. And Soccer Made in Germany on Saturday mornings....
As a science (chem) major, I'm gonna disagree with you on that last take. A certain amount of "liberal arts" courses is good for a well rounded person. It's one reason I'm fluent in German. That ended up being valuable in my career (as well as some of my English courses) as I ended up as a technical editor and not the research scientist I'd been envisioning. Exposure to the liberal arts--and the students associated with them--was also good for me socially. I was pretty geeky in college (still probably am). Had I not taken German courses, I'd not been able to have counted a PSU cheerleader as a friend, for one (from Herr Dr. Keune's "mystery hour"--it is not always easy to understand a lecturer mumbling into his notes--in German). As a college student, you really don't know what you'll end up doing down the road, so one has to be careful stating that a subject or subject area is "useless".
One of the problems here is that our society has been so "dumb-ified" (including supposed leaders who are more interested in power building rhetoric than real solutions), that many believe this is a legitimate and well thought out solution.
This is very similar to the Greek situation - many Greeks believed the problem was the Government's unwillingness to write checks on their promised, absurd entitlement programs for everyone.....they didn't see the problem was the fact that a government is barnkrupt, and borrowing is unsustainable, when 70% of the population is working for the Government and only paying a pittance back in taxes (i.e., outlays are grossly larger than tax receipts) the only way to make up that gap when you don't print your own currency any longer is borrowing. Borrowing which will only be sustained until it becomes obvious to lenders that it will never be repaid......and then the tap shuts.......and the bubble explodes.
Completely agree with pretty much all of this.
It's just unfortunate that the "lender" in this situation is our federal government, which is funded by you and I. And I have no say in cutting off this gravy train.
Sure I get a vote, but so does the ever increasing group of kids who "feel the Bern."
Well, I’LL BE, it looks like the university did a complete makeover of our dorms from the 60’s. Same bed, same desk, same window.
That's one of those fancy west halls dorms.
The value of Vocational-Technical education has never been higher. Kids who attend a Vo-Tech school can walk straight into the workforce with trade knowledge or go to any college they want. Trade school for HVAC certification? Sure. Penn State for some sort of science major? If you have good grades, go for it.
When I hear of school districts looking to pull out of Vo-Tech consortiums or cut back on vocational programs, it makes me want to puke.
When I hear of school districts looking to pull out of Vo-Tech consortiums or cut back on vocational programs, it makes me want to puke.
And still......not a soul will ponder the simple, obvious questions:
1 - Why does it cost $18,000 per year for a kid to pay for a PSU "education"......that cost $6,000 just 17 years ago?
2 - Where does all that money go?
And we wonder how crooks, frauds, and con-men can "get away with it" for so long?
Good Lord, its a wonder they don't steal more
1 - Why does it cost $18,000 per year for a kid to pay for a PSU "education"......that cost $6,000 just 17 years ago?
2 - Where does all that money go?
And we wonder how crooks, frauds, and con-men can "get away with it" for so long?
Good Lord, its a wonder they don't steal more
And still......not a soul will ponder the simple, obvious questions:
1 - Why does it cost $18,000 per year for a kid to pay for a PSU "education"......that cost $6,000 just 17 years ago?
2 - Where does all that money go?
And we wonder how crooks, frauds, and con-men can "get away with it" for so long?
Good Lord, its a wonder they don't steal more
As long as the Federal Government, (and to some extent private lenders), keep handing out loans like candy, Colleges and Universities will keep raising tuition and finding ways to spend the money. It is an unholy alliance, financed on the backs of 18 to 22 year olds that do not know any better.
You can probably find the answer somewhere on this page: https://controller.psu.edu/
Here's the link to the most recent audited financial statement: https://controller.psu.edu/sites/default/files/users/controller/docs/FinStmts/2016FinStmts.pdf
Someone who has more time can figure out from there where the money goes.
Here's the link to the most recent audited financial statement: https://controller.psu.edu/sites/default/files/users/controller/docs/FinStmts/2016FinStmts.pdf
Someone who has more time can figure out from there where the money goes.
Someone already did.........a long time ago.....and has been talking about it ever since.
No one seems to care (more or less)
They - apparently - would rather spin anecdotes, and buy the BS peddled by the Administration and ALL of the Trustees ("The State Appropriation.....By God, Its all the fault of the State Appropriation!!!! Certainly not US!")
"Penn State Tuition: Part 1
Is Penn State's Tuition too High?
We need to learn, and recognize, THE TRUTH!
...
Penn State - according to their own financial statements - is overcharging their students by over $8,000 per year.
Today, nearly 1/3 of all Tuition dollars no longer go towards their intended purpose....INSTRUCTING AND EDUCATING our students.
Instead, Administrative Bloat, and Wasteful (and probably fraudulent) Capital Spending Costs have driven tuition costs to ridiculous levels.
We need to understand the TRUTH.....is we are ever to achieve Responsible Governance.
Tune in for Parts 2 and 3, at:
"Barry Fenchak for Trustee" page on FaceBook
to learn what we can do, and what we must do, to regain control over Tuition Costs."
And the government puts their stamp of approval on it by issuing student loans to cover the 1/3. Only problem is, the student has to pay it back, not the University.
The 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality of parents (not blaming the kids, most of them don't want the trophy) is the same mentality that pushes every kid to college whether that's best for them or not. Yes, Billy might be better off as a welder but the neighbor's kids are going to college so he is too.
My kids are 2 and 4. While I'm saving diligently in 529s, I am definitely hoping this bubble bursts within the next 10 years to bring some level of sanity back.
My kids are 2 and 4. While I'm saving diligently in 529s, I am definitely hoping this bubble bursts within the next 10 years to bring some level of sanity back.
The comment about gen ed classes is spot on. Why do business majors need to take physics, art history and music? Why do English majors have to take math or geoscience? It's a waste of time and money. You could easily make BA/BS degrees three year programs with the gen eds being replaced by program specific gen eds. Also, there should be a push for summer schooling. Get these kids in and out.
I never wore a mini skirt, and certainly was hardly ever offered free love, at least if the girl was sober.
Good points except for the part about worthless degrees. If customers want to buy worthless chit then it is not a vendors fault for selling it.
If you scheduled the classes in your major early and then left without taking the general ed classes, do you think corporate America would hire you?
I'm sorry it doesn't because making sense to you is what I live for, dipshit.
To be fair, the core classes in your major don't prepare you much for how things work in the real world anyway. A senior leader once told me that a degree "proves you are able to learn things and not much more." Yet it is the required barrier to entry.
Voltz99 is probably a college administrator.
Between 1975 and 2005, total spending by American higher educational institutions, stated in constant dollars, tripled, to more than $325 billion per year. Over the same period, the faculty-to-student ratio has remained fairly constant, at approximately fifteen or sixteen students per instructor. One thing that has changed, dramatically, is the administrator-per-student ratio. In 1975, colleges employed one administrator for every eighty-four students and one professional staffer—admissions officers, information technology specialists, and the like—for every fifty students. By 2005, the administrator-to-student ratio had dropped to one administrator for every sixty-eight students while the ratio of professional staffers had dropped to one for every twenty-one students.
http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septoct-2011/administrators-ate-my-tuition/
Between 1975 and 2005, total spending by American higher educational institutions, stated in constant dollars, tripled, to more than $325 billion per year. Over the same period, the faculty-to-student ratio has remained fairly constant, at approximately fifteen or sixteen students per instructor. One thing that has changed, dramatically, is the administrator-per-student ratio. In 1975, colleges employed one administrator for every eighty-four students and one professional staffer—admissions officers, information technology specialists, and the like—for every fifty students. By 2005, the administrator-to-student ratio had dropped to one administrator for every sixty-eight students while the ratio of professional staffers had dropped to one for every twenty-one students.
http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septoct-2011/administrators-ate-my-tuition/
If you want to remain willfully ignorant, by refusing to read an income statement and balance sheet for yourself - - AND going OT when someone does the work for you - - - that's your choice.
Whatever makes you "happy"
I find ignorance to be - rather unpleasant But that's just one guy's opinion, and to each their own.
You know what makes me happy? My kids having a great college experience at PSU, and by all accounts they are! If I needed to penny-pinch they'd be at Rutgers since I reside in the Garden State.
Yep! That's relevant in so many ways to the issue at hand.
Let's count the ways:
Yep, that about covers it!!
As always, Mark and Ira thank you for your thoughtful support!
To the best of my knowledge the dorms haven't changed very much. Fitness centers and cafeteria choices have changed dramatically. Those things have to be adding the the cost.
I don't know what schools pay for technology. Good wi-fi should be that expensive, should it? I also wonder what universities spend to maintain libraries. I'm amazed by the size of libraries these days when you can look just about anything up online. Law libraries are some of the worst. Are they being kept for show?
You have hit the nail on the head in regards to modern universities - they have become antiquated in many ways, but most especially in the "control" over knowledge that they once had. The only thing modern universities "control" any more is their imprimatur on the degree - this is especially true relative to taking "online courses" versus the same course on the "bricks & mortar" campus setting....theoretically the same knowledge is being conveyed and ultimately learned by the participant. Effectively, universities are "selling degrees" and reputations to maintain and pay for all the unnecessary edifices that have become largely unnecessary and antiquated to the actual "learning process" (libraries being a classic example once all the information they contain becomes codified via electronic means). Modern universities have become massive antiquated bureaucracies that exist primarily for the benefit of the bureaucrats. The fact that the most successful people on the entire earth over the last 25 - 50 years dropped out of universities in favor of starting up their own tech companies is telling as to what kind of monopoly or control these bureaucracies have over "true knowledge" or even success for that matter.
In computers, maybe (I know a number of examples). If you are good. But I think even that is changing. Heck, some places require a degree to be a secretary these days.
