Flo and Penn State

[rmg78]

Disclaimer: This is not a rant about Flo as I do enjoy Flo, listening to FRL, etc.

Curious as to what others think about Flo and how they treat/discuss/make predictions about PSU and NLWC wrestlers. I noticed that in today's New rankings Spey moved Assad ahead of Brooks I guess based on his win over Venz (no apparent consideration of his 3 losses including one to a D3 kid). Also noticed that Murin did not drop a single place after his loss to Red and Warner only dropped one place after his loss. I do not complain about rankings as they are subjective and do not really matter other than to generate discussion. Besides that when they are making predictions for tournaments and other events they seem to gush about others and never really give NLWC their respect. Mainly thinking about Zain and team trials last year (and the insane amount of coverage of Yanni) and Cenzo and Nolf at Farrel this year as they were pretty adament that Mekhi would take out both no problem. There are plenty of instances where they do give accolades but it almost has to be a definite result for that to happen.

So, is their lack of access to the room that influential in their coverage? Is it noticeable to others. I root for PSU but do not wear PSU colored glasses and it seems pretty obvious.

 

[nerfstate]

I think it's the lack of program/team/athlete access and transparency for the most part, with a sprinkling of "headlines and sound bytes that give the rest of the wrestling audience some blue and white schadenfreude is good for the bottom line." Maybe a touch of ego fueled takery from time to time. I don't really sweat it, but seen together, it looks like bias when I doubt it is en masse.

 

[WildTurk]

Definitely some clear media bias against Penn State. Despicable!

 

[Beezy14]

My favorite part has been the extreme revisionist history :re Penn State injuries. FRL has stated multiple times that “injuries have never really affected Penn State before, but THIS year they are.” Huh??? Jason Nolf anyone? Nick Suriano? Shak? Altons? Cassar (years prior to this one)? That’s just a few.

They also like to make mention that Penn State has “no depth”, but conveniently forget that freaking Aaron Brooks and Seth Nevills ARE the depth this year, lol.

 

[jrd23psu]

Flo is a shit company and always has been. We shouldn’t be concerned with them. The worst thing about them is their bait and switch tactics, though.

 

[82bordeaux]

I love it. Going into March, PSU will be a clear underdog (which we should be at this point). It will only serve to loosen the boys in blue up, and make some of the preordained champs with monkeys on their backs and squirrels in there heads have have sphincters tightened up one more number on the dial.

 

[backdrft76]

Definitely some clear media bias against Penn State. Despicable!

 

[rmg78]

Definitely some clear media bias against Penn State. Despicable!

Not saying that it is clear bias, I would say subtle bias. My question was more what others believed that the lack of access to the room and guys had on their coverage of the team. As I said before, they are pretty decent in all that they do but it has to bother them that they have literally no access to the room, considering PSU has won 8 of the last 9 championships that cannot be good for them.

By the way Turk, I never really understood why people on this board were hating on you. I get it now.

 

[El-Jefe]

The rankings of Assad vs. Brooks and of Murin are consistent with a philosophy of ranking according to wins instead of losses.

This is foreign to fans conditioned to decades of college football rankings where you drop 10 spots for losing to a top 5 team by less than a FG.

if Brooks beats Venz this weekend and does not move ahead of Aaaad, then complaints have merit.

 

[rmg78]

The rankings of Assad vs. Brooks and of Murin are consistent with a philosophy of ranking according to wins instead of losses.

This is foreign to fans conditioned to decades of college football rankings where you drop 10 spots for losing to a top 5 team by less than a FG.

if Brooks beats Venz this weekend and does not move ahead of Aaaad, then complaints have merit.

I get that they value wins more than losses, but, then I also remember that Seth beat Borst last year and does not have a bad loss, but is a couple of spots behind him.

 

[El-Jefe]

I get that they value wins more than losses, but, then I also remember that Seth beat Borst last year and does not have a bad loss, but is a couple of spots behind him.

Last year.

This year Borst beat Andrews. Snacks' best win is Luffman.

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

I’d imagine nomad goes home at night, locks himself away, and mutters how Cael is bad for the sport of wrestling out loud

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Did anyone else get the Bader email this morning?
His writing doesnt read like a “ senior editor” or whatever the hell he calls himself
Love the bald-mullet though.

 

[82bordeaux]

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

 

[dunkej01]

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

Only the dreaded I-word could help and I would rather take 2nd than root or wish that on iowa. Its their time. So be it.

 

[Mat Burn]

I thought I heard Iowa was scoring 150 + this year?

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

 

[Lyons212]

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

That point total is Iowa's ceiling, pretty much nowhere to go but down. No doubt with that huge margin right now, it will be real difficult for PSU to catch Iowa at this time. What PSU needs going forward:

1. Continue improvement from Brooks and Snacks
2. Continue improvement from Shak (he looked much improved over the previous weekend).
3. Berge back at 100%

 

[Lyons212]

My favorite part has been the extreme revisionist history :re Penn State injuries. FRL has stated multiple times that “injuries have never really affected Penn State before, but THIS year they are.” Huh??? Jason Nolf anyone? Nick Suriano? Shak? Altons? Cassar (years prior to this one)? That’s just a few.

They also like to make mention that Penn State has “no depth”, but conveniently forget that freaking Aaron Brooks and Seth Nevills ARE the depth this year, lol.

With 9.9 scholarships, no team really has any quality depth. If you lose an All-American caliber wrestler, your only option is to hope you have a redshirting wrestler with AA potential. Fortunately for PSU this year, Brooks and Snacks were available.

If Spencer Lee or DeSanto suffered a season ending injury, Iowa would struggle to replace those 2 as well.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

My favorite part has been the extreme revisionist history :re Penn State injuries. FRL has stated multiple times that “injuries have never really affected Penn State before, but THIS year they are.” Huh??? Jason Nolf anyone? Nick Suriano? Shak? Altons? Cassar (years prior to this one)? That’s just a few.

They also like to make mention that Penn State has “no depth”, but conveniently forget that freaking Aaron Brooks and Seth Nevills ARE the depth this year, lol.

Any type of analysis would tell you that we lack depth because we recruit a lot of top echelon guys. Haters joke about the slush fund, but if there was a real slush fund, we could layer solid depth below our stars in many weight classes. We might have depth in 2-3 weight classes, but generally we have walk ons. That’s the risk you take allocating a lot of $ to a few guys.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

Like Flo's rankings, these are not predictions. Unlike Flo's rankings, every one of these results is within the realm of possibility.

125 Lee wins, Meredith DNP
133 DeSanto beats RBY in the 3/4 match
141 Lee wins, Murin loses in R12
149 Verk DNP, Lugo is upset in the semis, loses his focus on the backside and finishes 6th
157 Bo P DNP, Young finishes 6th
165 Cenzo wins, Bull is upset in the semis but wrestles back for 3rd
174 Hall wins, Kutler beats Kem in the semis. Kem finishes 3rd
184 Brooks loses to Zahid in the finals, Assad finishes R12
197 Shak finishes 5th, Warner finishes 8th
285 Big Snacks loses to Cassioppi in the 5/6 match

That's 82-66 PSU in placement points.

 

[b1gwheeze]

PSU gives Flo precious little in terms of content (athlete/coaches interview, etc.), while there seems to be more OSU, Iowa, etc. content. This could subtly bias Flo towards these teams relative to PSU. In the end Flo provides wrestling content and I like wrestling, so I put up with these annoyances....

 

[PABulldogs]

I have had a Flo membership for 5 years. The main reason why was for the videos of overseas coverage, duels and folk style tournament match coverages. I must say that I’m not much on listening to them share their opinions as I enjoy Rokfin a little better. As far as the PSU relationship they are completely a ratings type company. For what ever reason after the departure of WS. I can no longer even take them serious about anything. Now I do enjoy the personal interviews and stories of wrestlers. There is definitely something that Flo commentators/rankers have with PSU/NLWC as their information is usually spun to reflect some catchy story line. I hope the Flo personalities eventually improves in how PSU/NLWC relationship with coverages. Although I am very skeptical because its obvious that the subscriptions are most important instead of legitimate reporting both before and after the event.

 

[RD41]

Assad over Brooks was obvious click bait as they ignore his losses to make a ranking move just to get people talking.

I think the bigger question is how does Penn State make up 71 points?

Iowa 143.5
Penn State 72.5

Iowa has 0 points, as does PSU as of this date. Speculating on possible points is fun I guess, but since the tournament is almost 2 months away, I would rather enjoy watching what is going on now. Both teams have lineups full of talented wrestlers. I am just glad to have the opportunity to watch some great wrestling by everyone involved. Let 'em scrap & see how it turns out.

 

[NittanyChris]

Flo "Rankings" are laughable.

 

[pish69]

Flo "Rankings" are laughable.

Yes..this year Spey took over and they're horrible. Use intermat for more realistic rankings.

I didn't listen to todays FRL, that being said, I don't hear the "Flo Bias" as much as some others in this thread though. I think they give more props to the teams that give more access which is understandable IMO.

 

[Afw6006]

No offense to the OP but it's funny that this thread was made when Iowa has the same gripes over on their board in terms of feeling Flo is anti-Iowa and doesn't give them enough love. Think it just comes down to perspective and naturally everyone always wants to hear more love on their favorite team

 

[NoVa Lion]

No offense to the OP but it's funny that this thread was made when Iowa has the same gripes over on their board in terms of feeling Flo is anti-Iowa and doesn't give them enough love. Think it just comes down to perspective and naturally everyone always wants to hear more love on their favorite team

Yep, same phenomenon re penalties in pretty much every sport. Fans of every team are convinced they get screwed by the refs more than any other team. Amazing how many teams the refs can screw with.

 

[diggerpup]

FLO has a grudge vs Penn State because of the very limited access that Cael allows into the program.


There’s only so many times that FLO can show the Suriano Interviews.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

I think it's the lack of program/team/athlete access and transparency for the most part, with a sprinkling of "headlines and sound bytes that give the rest of the wrestling audience some blue and white schadenfreude is good for the bottom line." Maybe a touch of ego fueled takery from time to time. I don't really sweat it, but seen together, it looks like bias when I doubt it is en masse.

The first part is the big one. Not sure whether they feel spited by the lack of access or it just makes it harder on them, but lack of access is a huge part of it.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Like Flo's rankings, these are not predictions. Unlike Flo's rankings, every one of these results is within the realm of possibility.

125 Lee wins, Meredith DNP
133 DeSanto beats RBY in the 3/4 match
141 Lee wins, Murin loses in R12
149 Verk DNP, Lugo is upset in the semis loses his focus on the backside and finishes 6th
157 Bo P DNP, Young finishes 6th
165 Cenzo wins, Bull is upset in the semis but wrestles back for 3rd
174 Hall wins, Kutler beats Kem in the semis. Kem finishes 3rd
184 Brooks loses to Zahid in the finals, Assad finishes R12
197 Shak finishes 5th, Warner finishes 8th
285 Big Snacks loses to Cassioppi in the 5/6 match

That's 82-66 PSU in placement points.

Great preview

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The first part is the big one. Not sure whether they feel spited by the lack of access or it just makes it harder on them, but lack of access is a huge part of it.

Knowing you are a huge dog person (from your twitter feed) did you see this pic of a stoned dog? Lame ass owner, but the dog does look like Snoop Dogg here:

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

Knowing you are a huge dog person (from your twitter feed) did you see this pic of a stoned dog? Lame ass owner, but the dog does look like Snoop Dogg here:

View embedded media

Haha, I did. I don't know Rachel personally but I know people that do and by all accounts she's a really good person, so I'm sure it was just an accident. Hilarious picture nonetheless!

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Haha, I did. I don't know Rachel personally but I know people that do and by all accounts she's a really good person, so I'm sure it was just an accident. Hilarious picture nonetheless!

That dude is wrecked!! It is hilarious

 

[dunkej01]

Ive posted on this before so its not like its some big secret. But yeah there is some professional animosity between members of flo and psu that dates back. I DO NOT think its personal, but professional. Flo is a wrestling news org and wants access to break stories and news. Cael wants things out on his terms. So the two pull in different directions. Again I dont think its personal but simply a professional love vs hate thing.

My opinion the suriano thing drove the wedge bigger and the teasdale/scuffle thing probably froze it out.

I could be wrong but the only access flo has is through the kids on the team, but I think they even take great care of what they say/share. Im sure they get 2nd hand info too since the kids know kids on other teams that they talk to who then share with the wrestling media at large.

its the way of the world.

 

[District four]

That dude is wrecked!! It is hilarious

Pie eyed lmfao

 

[Fatmarc]

I have a FLO account.
I recognize a lot of what they do is clickbait and clickthroughs.

While I have always been a wrestling fan, it wasn't until flow that I had the access to a variety/volume of college wrestling that I have had for the last decade. Because of this access, in addition to college wrestling, I've grown to love freestyle/women's wrestling. The access to matches makes it worth it to me and is unparalleled at this time.

I'm not a fan of when FLO highlights poor sportsmanship, or in my opinion, tries to make college wrestling more like MMA/PRO wrestling... I don't always like the personalities (I wasn't a fan of Willie's shtick, but appreciated his knowledge if that makes sense) I recognize they have to play characters to some extent... Ultimately, the juice is still worth the squeeze for me...

My observation is that every fan base believes there is a bias from FLO against their team.

Every fan base thinks FLO sucks from time to time too. From a streaming standpoint, there were fair criticisms in the past- that said they have only gotten better and better...

IMHO
respect
fm

 

[a_mshaffer]

the typical after match interview on espn2 on Sunday was quickly absent after the first PSU win...

 

[CholleyVandine]

the typical after match interview on espn2 on Sunday was quickly absent after the first PSU win...

(a) I'm pretty sure this is not true (I remember the Cenzo interview), but

(b) I wish to God it were. There is nothing in sports TV harder to watch than a Quint Kessenich post-match, matside interview.

EDIT: I went back and checked. There were only two post-match interviews ... RBY and Cenzo. So they didn't stop after the first Penn State win. Actually, they didn't begin until the first Penn State win, and they didn't include Rutgers wrestlers at all.

 

[82bordeaux]

I have a FLO account.
I recognize a lot of what they do is clickbait and clickthroughs.

While I have always been a wrestling fan, it wasn't until flow that I had the access to a variety/volume of college wrestling that I have had for the last decade. Because of this access, in addition to college wrestling, I've grown to love freestyle/women's wrestling. The access to matches makes it worth it to me and is unparalleled at this time.

I'm not a fan of when FLO highlights poor sportsmanship, or in my opinion, tries to make college wrestling more like MMA/PRO wrestling... I don't always like the personalities (I wasn't a fan of Willie's shtick, but appreciated his knowledge if that makes sense) I recognize they have to play characters to some extent... Ultimately, the juice is still worth the squeeze for me...

My observation is that every fan base believes there is a bias from FLO against their team.

Every fan base thinks FLO sucks from time to time too. From a streaming standpoint, there were fair criticisms in the past- that said they have only gotten better and better...

IMHO
respect
fm

You're right on. My main issue with their editorialism isn't so much bias, but a glamorization of poor behavior/sportsmanship. Where in most social media outlets you see examples of kids showing good sportsmanship, FLO shows the worst side of it. Does a day go by on their Instagram feed without a photo of Austin Desanto with a hundred comments from sycophant teenagers that think he's the cat's ass?
I subscribe for the streaming content. I rarely listen to FRL. My wife hates FLO because I'll watch old high school matches from 10 years ago and she just doesn't get it.