That makes him about a foot shorter than Scotti Sentes, right?
Flo Preseason Weight Rankings ...
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
I remain pleased that our guys tend to go up, not down. I just don't get the perception that BG is going to be "huge" at 141. At least half the weight coming off will be muscle. I'll take JG with a strength and tank advantage this matchup.
Brody Grothus has certified at 141 each of his seasons wrestling at 149 I believe. He has never been a big 149. He stated on the takedown wrestling podcast that he tried to make the cut to 141 in 10 days instead of working his way into like he is doing now, the correct way. He is a very driven individual and I would not be surprised in the least to see him finish top 5 at this weight. I predict a podium finish either way. Excited to see him match up with Gulibon, him coming up, Grothus coming down.
149 posted: http://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/college/weight/149
The podcast explaining their ranking is available at THIS LINK.
1 T-shirt
2 Zain
3 Sorensen
4 Henderson
5 Clagon
6 Sueflohn
...
9 Collica
11 Neff
12 Stieber
19 Gardner
So the B1G has 3 of the top 5, 5 of the top 10, and 6 of the top 20.
(I edited your post a bit El-Jefe, to include the podcast as well as the #s the B1G has in the top 20.)
The podcast explaining their ranking is available at THIS LINK.
1 T-shirt
2 Zain
3 Sorensen
4 Henderson
5 Clagon
6 Sueflohn
...
9 Collica
11 Neff
12 Stieber
19 Gardner
So the B1G has 3 of the top 5, 5 of the top 10, and 6 of the top 20.
(I edited your post a bit El-Jefe, to include the podcast as well as the #s the B1G has in the top 20.)
Count me in this camp 100%. I've been in this camp for a long time. IMO, the perception is waaaay off. Yes, when you are in HS and you cut down to get to 108 or 115, BIG ADVANTAGE. But, again IMO, mostly the advantage comes from the pool of competition you face. You're competing at the lower end of the spectrum with less competitors and younger kids. Same often goes with guys who move up to the higher end of the spectrum - less competition.
In college, less so, but I still think there can be an advantage at the lower end of the spectrum as there aren't a lot of career 125s out there. If you move down a weight class just so you can get a spot (Grothus for example) and don't compete at your ideal weight, there are a lot of disadvantages. In terms of Iowa, I'd be more concerned with Clark if he had the size to move up. He'd be a big threat. With Grothus, I guess we will see how he competes at this weight, but my guess is that it won't work out quite like expected. I'd much rather be Jimmy, adding muscle to compete there, than be in the position of reshaping your body and stripping muscle to make the weight class. In addition, Grothus still has to develop some leg attacks to compete with the guys consistently at 141.
My hat's off to the kid. Doing what he needs to start. Not always a good idea going down, but hard to argue about it in this case. Hope he stays healthy.
Seems they made a couple of mistakes at 149. They have Dan Neff (Lock Haven) rated 11th at 149. Lock Haven announced publicly on Sep. 10th that Neff was moving back to 141. You can read the write-up on Lock Haven's web site at THIS LINK.
Also, they rate Marcus Cain (Duke) at 20th. Marcus graduated from Duke in May with a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering (don't believe me, CLICK HERE). Marcus was a RS Jr. last year, and appears to have moved on with his career, as he's not listed on Duke's roster for the upcoming season (CLICK HERE to check).
Stove Pipe deserves credit for pointing out these things on The Mat's forum. I remembered the Neff story, and was happy to dig up the above links for proof.
Are there good examples of guys who grew into the next weight class and struggled? There must be because I've read about a hundred comments from fans of other teams who think Gullibon and Retherford are being overrated because their success came at lower weight classes. But I can't think of any.
I waded deep into the history of the NCAA tournament to try to find an example of a guy who finished 5th one year and improved his performance the following year at the next weight class up.
I had to go all the way back to March to find the example of Cory Clark (5th at 125 in 2014, 2nd at 133 in 2015).
I kept digging to try to put Clark's accomplishment into historical context and had to go all the way back to 2014 to find another example (Devin Carter: 5th at 133 in 2013, 2nd at 141 in 2014).
Doesn't seem to be an issue at all but it keeps coming up.
I waded deep into the history of the NCAA tournament to try to find an example of a guy who finished 5th one year and improved his performance the following year at the next weight class up.
I had to go all the way back to March to find the example of Cory Clark (5th at 125 in 2014, 2nd at 133 in 2015).
I kept digging to try to put Clark's accomplishment into historical context and had to go all the way back to 2014 to find another example (Devin Carter: 5th at 133 in 2013, 2nd at 141 in 2014).
Doesn't seem to be an issue at all but it keeps coming up.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Egghead! All your facts, figures and cipherin' are too much for me!
Pfft - that's all ancient history man. Did you have to blow the cobwebs off those record books you're citing?
Lavallee going down is intriguing. I'm also a Pantaleo fan and I think he'll make strides this year. Collica getting a lot of buzz too. Should be a very exciting weight, a lot of talented guys close to each other.
How about Heflin bumping up 2 weight classes and finishing 2nd. Q went from 174 to 184 to 197 with great success. Molinaro, etc. I could go on for a long time.
So much for the other Iowa fan red herring about Retherford deserving to be slotted below Sorenson because he "took a year off."
And then you have Kyle Dake who bumped up three years in a row. I heard he was a pretty good wrestler. I need to research it a bit to see how it worked out for him
I should hope so. That pic is from 9th grade.I think Zains arms look a little different now!
I'm intrigued by Grothus moving down. I have an honest question - no flame - but how many Iowa wrestlers over the 5 year title drought had their highest NCAA finish in their senior year? Ramos comes to mind. Who else? Marion, McD, DSJ, EL, Telford, GG, Jeva, Moore, Stache, ... didn't, correct?
He started at 174, bumped to 184, then dropped to 174 again.
Max Askren is another example of a guy dropping for a better result.
Marion matched his highest finish, Stache matched his highest finish, Telford took 5th his other finishes were 5,4.. so about the same. Luke Lofthouse had his highest I believe in 2011. McD's SR year has an * next to it, was still tough as nails regardless. But overall I think the SR classes haven't been the ones leading the teams, and thats probably part of the reason why there haven't been any team titles for us in the last 5 years.
Yup, I confused Marion's last two years. It's what makes it hard to expect a breakout year from a senior until the tide changes.
157 out: http://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/college/weight/157
1 Martinez
2 Miller
3 Brascetta
4 Matthews
5 Murphy
6 Pack
7 Nolf
8 Gantt
I like Austin Matthews a LOT -- would've loved to see him in blue/white -- and don't see him beating Nolf. This could be a case of rankings based on past credentials =/= projections.
Also, check out the Okie State ranking ... gotta think this is either some kind of troll job by CP, or hedging bets until Blees or Marsteller wins the job -- or both.
And to continue Tom's format for these things:
The B1G has 2 in the top 5, 4 in the top 10, and 6 in the top 20.
And Flo's podcast explaining their rankings can be accessed at THIS LINK.
1 Martinez
2 Miller
3 Brascetta
4 Matthews
5 Murphy
6 Pack
7 Nolf
8 Gantt
I like Austin Matthews a LOT -- would've loved to see him in blue/white -- and don't see him beating Nolf. This could be a case of rankings based on past credentials =/= projections.
Also, check out the Okie State ranking ... gotta think this is either some kind of troll job by CP, or hedging bets until Blees or Marsteller wins the job -- or both.
And to continue Tom's format for these things:
The B1G has 2 in the top 5, 4 in the top 10, and 6 in the top 20.
And Flo's podcast explaining their rankings can be accessed at THIS LINK.
The questions about him would be: he struggled earlier in the year at 157, did better later at 165. Was the difficulty due to "earlier in the year" or "157"? Was the success due to "later" or "165"? I don't think those answers are apparent yet.
It's also really difficult to evaluate his body of work last year. Before Thanksgiving, he only wrestled in-state opens; his toughest competition came from teammates. Then he did not wrestle again until the Scuffle. He did well at the Scuffle, then did not wrestle again for 2 months until the National Collegiate Open -- and there got in 1 match before the tourney was scrapped for weather.
I can see him placing high at nationals, but it's really hard to justify ranking him that highly based upon his collegiate record to date.
It's also really difficult to evaluate his body of work last year. Before Thanksgiving, he only wrestled in-state opens; his toughest competition came from teammates. Then he did not wrestle again until the Scuffle. He did well at the Scuffle, then did not wrestle again for 2 months until the National Collegiate Open -- and there got in 1 match before the tourney was scrapped for weather.
I can see him placing high at nationals, but it's really hard to justify ranking him that highly based upon his collegiate record to date.
No Micah Jordan??? If that's the case, then it must be that he is going 165 and Bo Jordan will go to 174?
Haha, if true, then Tom Ryan has succeeded in jamming his son Jake into the lineup, at 157.
But that would be extra preposterous if such a move booted TWO of AA Kenny Courts, longtime aspiring AA Mark Martin and TRFR studs he said this week he's expecting points from THIS year in Myles Martin & Kollin Moore.
More likely CP's waiting for more evidence from Micah, like he did with Thorn, Zacherl & Ke-Shawn.
IF he is bumping everyone up why would Mark Hall want to go to tOSU and sit behind some of these guys... I think if they get bumped up then that's a mistake in terms of recruiting Hall but I agree that CP might just be waiting for official word on where these guys will all fall in the lineup
Yeah, agree Jtot. Micah wrestled 149 last year with no big wins. Only ranked guy from Flo he faced was #18 Gardner and he lost. Not saying Micah won't do well at 157, but probably doesn't have the resume to be ranked yet.
Which of those guys would Hall sit behind? And which of those guys would Hall think he would sit behind?
Personally, I don't believe anything Ryan says when it comes to stuff like this. He is quite fond of using the media to publicly motivate his wrestlers. This is probably some combination of encouraging the new guys + challenging the incumbents.
Evan Henderson confirmed to be at 141 this season; Flo now has him as the new #1.
Hope you enjoyed your couple days of glory Jimmy, lol.
Hope you enjoyed your couple days of glory Jimmy, lol.
