For Phils fans, new Richie Allen book

[mrtailgate]

For those Phillies fans who were mesmerized by Richie Allen, there is a new book that was just released on Allen. I don't know anyone who got an advance copy before release but it seems that people generally feel the most recent Allen book before this one is better from some national reviews.

This book was eagerly anticipated by many pushing for Allen to get enshrined in the HOF because it contains at least one chapter dedicated to the stats supporting Allen's enshrinement. Mark Carfagno is a passionate fellow who has spearheaded the Allen HOF push for probably two decades. Frogs is hopeful that Allen can see his enshrinement before it is too late.

The story on Allen's miss last time by ONE vote is an interesting one, not without controversy in the Phillies building. One of the voters who cast a thumbs down was none other than Phillies advisor Mr Gillick. To say that at least some people connected or previously connected with the Phillies were not happy is an understatement.

 

[marshall23]

IMO Richie/ Dick Allen was a HOF talent. He only needs to look in the mirror each day to see the person most responsible for his absence from enshrinement.

 

[dawgduice]

My Dad took me to see him play as a rookie for the Phils. He was just amazing. As a youngster I had no idea what he had to deal with. Once learning such I had and have a less than stellar feeling about many "human beings", including many family members. It is probably why I continually post that the average IQ is 98 (Mr Gillick).
PLUS many on this bored

 

[dawgduice]

'God Almighty Hisself: The Life and Legacy of Dick Allen' by Michael Nathanson.

The title comes from a quote from one of Allen's managers: "I believe God Almighty hisself would have trouble handling Richie Allen."

Probably because that "Manager" was, well ? Then again, what was the Manager's "image" of God, maybe a moron ?

 

[artsandletters]

IMO Richie/ Dick Allen was a HOF talent. He only needs to look in the mirror each day to see the person most responsible for his absence from enshrinement.

Maybe if Phillies hadn't stupidly and imprudently sent a young black man from Wampum, PA to the race riot ridden city of Little Rock, Richie would have had a different outlook and what some (white men) might call a 'better attitude'.

Richie was different before different was acceptable.

 

[artsandletters]

Probably because that "Manager" was, well ? Then again, what was the Manager's "image" of God, maybe a moron ?

I was just providing background, not agreeing. See my post above.

 

[dawgduice]

I was just providing background, not agreeing. See my post above.

Oops, my bad

 

[mrtailgate]

Probably because that "Manager" was, well ? Then again, what was the Manager's "image" of God, maybe a moron ?

Mauch understood talent at least and the necessity to have it. I don't know this to be the truth but John Quinn certainly did not give off the appearance of being an enlightened individual. Those were horrible times to be a white ballplayer, management largely treated black and Latino players many times worse,

 

[mrtailgate]

Maybe if Phillies hadn't stupidly and imprudently sent a young black man from Wampum, PA to the race riot ridden city of Little Rock, Richie would have had a different outlook and what some (white men) might call a 'better attitude'.

Richie was different before different was acceptable.

Yes, Allen never experienced racism growing up. He was widely accepted and lived in an integrated area. Little Rock was about as bad a draw as you could get.

 

[marshall23]

Maybe if Phillies hadn't stupidly and imprudently sent a young black man from Wampum, PA to the race riot ridden city of Little Rock, Richie would have had a different outlook and what some (white men) might call a 'better attitude'.

Richie was different before different was acceptable.

Perhaps, no one can walk in his shoes. Another mitigating circumstance is that his stats are borderline.

 

[artsandletters]

Perhaps, no one can walk in his shoes. Another mitigating circumstance is that his stats are borderline.

Phillies players from that era don't get respect. IIRC, both Robin Roberts and Richie Ashburn were put in by the Veteran's committee (Roberts may have gotten in his last year of eligibilty - I forget). Take a look at Roberts's numbers, especially, and consider the shitty ass teams he had behind him. He should have been voted in early on.

 

[marshall23]

Phillies players from that era don't get respect. IIRC, both Robin Roberts and Richie Ashburn were put in by the Veteran's committee (Roberts may have gotten in his last year of eligibilty - I forget). Take a look at Roberts's numbers, especially, and consider the shitty ass teams he had behind him. He should have been voted in early on.

Roberts and Ashburn were quite a few years ahead of Allen weren't they?

 

[artsandletters]

Roberts and Ashburn were quite a few years ahead of Allen weren't they?

They were at the end of their careers when Allen came up. I think Ashburn finished with the pathetic Mets in '62 with Casey Stengel as his manager (and still hit .306). Roberts career fizzled out with the Cubs in '66 (just hanging in for 3-4 years, really).

 

[delcoLion]

For those Phillies fans who were mesmerized by Richie Allen, there is a new book that was just released on Allen. I don't know anyone who got an advance copy before release but it seems that people generally feel the most recent Allen book before this one is better from some national reviews.

This book was eagerly anticipated by many pushing for Allen to get enshrined in the HOF because it contains at least one chapter dedicated to the stats supporting Allen's enshrinement. Mark Carfagno is a passionate fellow who has spearheaded the Allen HOF push for probably two decades. Frogs is hopeful that Allen can see his enshrinement before it is too late.

The story on Allen's miss last time by ONE vote is an interesting one, not without controversy in the Phillies building. One of the voters who cast a thumbs down was none other than Phillies advisor Mr Gillick. To say that at least some people connected or previously connected with the Phillies were not happy is an understatement.

My brother and I would catch the express rush hour subway from So. Philly up to Lehigh Ave & Connie Mack just to watch Allen hit. Some of the hardest hit balls I've ever seen. Saw all the great National league players of that era. Those were the days.

 

[CoastFan]

Saw Allen play for the Williamsport Grays before he went to the Phillies. It was a long, long time ago. I was a little leaguer then and our coach took the team to the Gray's game.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

For those Phillies fans who were mesmerized by Richie Allen, there is a new book that was just released on Allen. I don't know anyone who got an advance copy before release but it seems that people generally feel the most recent Allen book before this one is better from some national reviews.

This book was eagerly anticipated by many pushing for Allen to get enshrined in the HOF because it contains at least one chapter dedicated to the stats supporting Allen's enshrinement. Mark Carfagno is a passionate fellow who has spearheaded the Allen HOF push for probably two decades. Frogs is hopeful that Allen can see his enshrinement before it is too late.

The story on Allen's miss last time by ONE vote is an interesting one, not without controversy in the Phillies building. One of the voters who cast a thumbs down was none other than Phillies advisor Mr Gillick. To say that at least some people connected or previously connected with the Phillies were not happy is an understatement.

I just ordered the new release + the most recent book before that. Thanks for the heads up! My favorite player as a 7 year old in 1964. The HOF players from his era believe he should be in the HOF. The stats from his era prove it as well.

Name
OPS+
Dick Allen
165
Hank Aaron
161
Willie McCovey
161
Frank Robinson
161
Harmon Killebrew
152
Willie Stargell
152
Roberto Clemente
151
Willie Mays
148
Frank Howard
147
Carl Yastrzemski
145
Al Kaline
140
Boog Powell
140
Billy Williams
139
Tony Oliva
137
Ron Santo
136
Those are adjusted OPS numbers between 1964 and 1973. Seventeen Hall of Famers played 1000 or more games during those ten years. Dick Allen had a better OPS+ than all of them.
Looking only at his record, it is a little surprising that Dick Allen hasn’t been elected to the Hall of Fame. He won the 1964 Rookie of the Year and the 1972 AL MVP. He was a seven-time All-Star, a high .300 hitter with remarkable power. His career numbers suffer slightly because his prime years took place in an era of low offense, but by any reasonable measure Dick Allen was a great hitter.
For that, his career was somewhat unique: the few players who can boast peak ability similar to Allen generally have much better career lines than he did. Only Johnny Mize is a fair comparison to Allen: both players had brief but brilliant careers:
G
HR
RBI
BA
OBP
SLG
OPS+
Dick Allen
1749
351
1119
.292
.378
.534
156
Johnny Mize
1884
359
1337
.312
.397
.562
158
And to be clear: Dick Allen’s career was short, but it wasn’t that short. Chuck Klein played fewer games than Allen. So did Joe DiMaggio and Tony Lazzarri and Earle Combs and Lou Boudreau and Hank Greenberg and Ralph Kiner and Kirby Puckett.
Conservatively, Dick Allen was one of the top forty hitters of all-time. And that’s very conservative. He averaged 31.68 Win Shares per 162 games, which is higher than any first baseman except Lou Gehrig. Dick Allen won a few major awards and was the best offensive player in the game for ten years. His career line is a little low, but his peak is remarkable. His statistical record is the record of a Hall of Fame player.

 

[artsandletters]

My brother and I would catch the express rush hour subway from So. Philly up to Lehigh Ave & Connie Mack just to watch Allen hit. Some of the hardest hit balls I've ever seen. Saw all the great National league players of that era. Those were the days.

"Saw all the great NL players of that era."

Me too and I loved it. My baseball cards came to life.

 

[kgilbert78]

Phillies players from that era don't get respect. IIRC, both Robin Roberts and Richie Ashburn were put in by the Veteran's committee (Roberts may have gotten in his last year of eligibilty - I forget). Take a look at Roberts's numbers, especially, and consider the shitty ass teams he had behind him. He should have been voted in early on.

He was chosen according to baseball-reference.com the 4th time he was eligible in 1976 with 86.9% of the vote. That's not first ballot--but it's not that slow either. And it's not the Veterans Committee either.

Note that Yogi only got 67% of the vote his first time out... Whitey Ford? The same. 67% in the same year as Roberts too).

 

[artsandletters]

He was chosen according to baseball-reference.com the 4th time he was eligible in 1976 with 86.9% of the vote. That's not first ballot--but it's not that slow either.

Roberts? I thought it was later. Thanks. He was one of the dominant NL pitchers of the 60s, leading the league in wins four times and in other categories as well. If he'd played for just a decent team he'd have won well over 300 games (286 was his total).

 

[kgilbert78]

Roberts? I thought it was later. Thanks. He was one of the dominant NL pitchers of the 60s, leading the league in wins four times and in other categories as well. If he'd played for just a decent team he'd have won well over 300 games (286 was his total).

His one problem was that he liked to challenge hitters with his fastball--in the strike zone. Sometimes he won--and sometimes he didn't, which is why he gave up a fair amount of homers.

 

[mrtailgate]

For those interested, the author of the book will be a guest on WIP at 2pm on Saturday. Host Rob Charry has been a big Dick Allen HOF supporter for some time.

The book contains a lot of photos supplied by the Allen family so you will likely see some never before seen photos. It should be available at most Barnes and Noble stores within a week.

 

[artsandletters]

He was chosen according to baseball-reference.com the 4th time he was eligible in 1976 with 86.9% of the vote. That's not first ballot--but it's not that slow either. And it's not the Veterans Committee either.

Note that Yogi only got 67% of the vote his first time out... Whitey Ford? The same. 67% in the same year as Roberts too).

If Roberts was on the Yankees, forget about it. Surprised about Yogi but I haven't looked at his numbers.

 

[artsandletters]

His one problem was that he liked to challenge hitters with his fastball--in the strike zone. Sometimes he won--and sometimes he didn't, which is why he gave up a fair amount of homers.

3.41 ERA. I think he led the league in complete games 4-5 times (32 one year IIRC) which could account for a higher ERA. Not bad but he was on Phillies teams that were total crap. They did have a few good years in the early 50s but then were just awful. I lived it. Maybe you did too.

 

[kgilbert78]

If Roberts was on the Yankees, forget about it. Surprised about Yogi but I haven't looked at his numbers.

Actually, they seem to have been very fussy during that era. Lots of years only one player got in. Except they did let Rizzuto in.....

 

[artsandletters]

Actually, they seem to have been very fussy during that era. Lots of years only one player got in. Except they did let Rizzuto in.....

Yeah, Rizzuto?? But wasn't he a popular media figure for a long time? Color man for the Yanks? Could have made a difference. Was it the Lending Tree commercial that he did later on?

 

[kgilbert78]

Yeah, Rizzuto?? But wasn't he a popular media figure for a long time? Color man for the Yanks? Could have made a difference. Was it the Lending Tree commercial that he did later on?

Yeah, he was a media guy--and I expect that didn't hurt Ashburn with the Vets Committee either.

One of the best days of my life was going with my brother to the induction when Schmidt and Ashburn got in. We actually were able to visit the Hall itself later that day, as most of the folks there were on bus tours from Philly and had left already.

 

[artsandletters]

Yeah, he was a media guy--and I expect that didn't hurt Ashburn with the Vets Committee either.

One of the best days of my life was going with my brother to the induction when Schmidt and Ashburn got in. We actually were able to visit the Hall itself later that day, as most of the folks there were on bus tours from Philly and had left already.

Nice day.

Ashburn had the numbers but was a singles hitter, the quintessential leadoff man in those days. And he stole bases but not at the rate later players did. Well, he finally got in and it was serendipitous that it was with Schmidt.

 

[Nitwit]

3.41 ERA. I think he led the league in complete games 4-5 times (32 one year IIRC) which could account for a higher ERA. Not bad but he was on Phillies teams that were total crap. They did have a few good years in the early 50s but then were just awful. I lived it. Maybe you did too.

32 complete games in one season - just think about that now. That's when baseball was fun to me. I doubt if good pitchers now would get close to 32 in a career. Those were the best days of baseball.

 

[artsandletters]

32 complete games in one season - just think about that now. That's when baseball was fun to me. I doubt if good pitchers now would get close to 32 in a career. Those were the best days of baseball.

Roberts led the league in complete games five straight years, from '52 to '56: 30, 33, 29, 26 and 22.

He also played basketball at Michigan State.

 

[kgilbert78]

Roberts led the league in complete games five straight years, from '52 to '56: 30, 33, 29, 26 and 22.

He also played basketball at Michigan State.

The All-American basketball player that surprised me? Frank Howard. Buddy of mine played with him in HS--a loooong time ago.