Former PSU Walk-on QB Sean Sellinger fatally stabbed in Philly

[Delco Lion]

It really won’t help him much , maybe manslaughter instead of murder. The big thing with any self defense case is knowing when you can act and when you can’t.

They are already building the foundation for a self defense case and Schellinger's past criminal history will play a part in the defense. He was arrested three times.

Per the Philly inquirer:

"Schellenger has a criminal history including arrests in Chester County and Florida, including a 2008 arrest in Florida for disorderly conduct, battery and trespassing although charges were later dropped. He was found guilty of disorderly conduct in 2009 in Chester County, and previously charged in Chester County in August 2001 with burglary, resisting arrest, criminal trespassing, and theft, although the verdict in that case was unknown, the Inquirer reported."

I dont condone the use of the knife, but you can see where this is going.

 

[Chris92]

and previously charged in Chester County in August 2001 with burglary, resisting arrest, criminal trespassing, and theft, although the verdict in that case was unknown, the Inquirer reported."

Someone gets paid to write that? The verdict was unknown?

 

[PSURAHJ]

The guys in the car were probably feeling beer strong and chesty but I betcha if they had been rolling through 21st and Diamond, for example, at that time of night and some guy in a car is temporarily blocking the road they would've either waited or thrown it in reverse.

Speaking of which, has the driver of the double parked car from the original confrontation been heard from? He probably holds the key testimony.

Not for nothing but this Schellenger guy was doing good work in helping gentrify neighborhoods like Point Breeze and Brewerytown. They have shown some of his work on the news. They say he had a vision for turning around depressed areas.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Or it really could be self defense. Due process folks.

There’s no possible way it’s self defense. Manslaughter is what they’re targeting . You can’t retrieve a weapon and reengag the conflict and claim self defense unless someone’s life was in immediate danger .
If the victim beat him down and then attacked another person and it was a potential lethal attack it might apply. Say he was choking the accused’s friend. Maybe .

 

[UncleLar]

There’s no possible way it’s self defense. Manslaughter is what they’re targeting . You can’t retrieve a weapon and reengag the conflict and claim self defense unless someone’s life was in immediate danger .
If the victim beat him down and then attacked another person and it was a potential lethal attack it might apply. Say he was choking the accused’s friend. Maybe .

The guy was a bike food delivery guy. It's quite likely he was wearing his backpack. Suppose Sellinger is on top of him choking him and the kid manages to reach back, pull a knife out of his backpack,then reach behind and stab Sellinger in the back. That's a scenario that could fit the known facts, at least the few that I know, and would certainly be construed as self-defense.

You are jumping to conclusions way too quickly.

 

[fizzyskittles]

The guy was a bike food delivery guy. It's quite likely he was wearing his backpack. Suppose Sellinger is on top of him choking him and the kid manages to reach back, pull a knife out of his backpack,then reach behind and stab Sellinger in the back. That's a scenario that could fit the known facts, at least the few that I know, and would certainly be construed as self-defense.

You are jumping to conclusions way too quickly.

Really? So far there is no report that it happened that way. Try having a 200 lb person lay on top of you, choke you, and then you retreive a toy knife from a back pack you're laying on, and then stab someone in the back. Not the neck, face, side, or front of the torso. Try it and see if that works.

 

[Delco Lion]

There’s no possible way it’s self defense. Manslaughter is what they’re targeting . You can’t retrieve a weapon and reengag the conflict and claim self defense unless someone’s life was in immediate danger .
If the victim beat him down and then attacked another person and it was a potential lethal attack it might apply. Say he was choking the accused’s friend. Maybe .

"Manslaughter is what they’re targeting " Who is they're"? You can be assured the defense is going for self defense. No one is saying what the driver or passengers, if any, in the car blocking the road witnessed. Thats the big unknown.

 

[fizzyskittles]

"Manslaughter is what they’re targeting " Who is they're"? You can be assured the defense is going for self defense. No one is saying what the driver or passengers, if any, in the car blocking the road witnessed. Thats the big unknown.

A plea deal or a lesser charge.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.005.005.000..HTM Pa's self defense law. So far I see nothing here that would allow self defense. the other guy started it isn't enough. You have to show immediate danger and if the victim did start to walk away it's manslaughter at best.

 

[fizzyskittles]

"Manslaughter is what they’re targeting " Who is they're"? You can be assured the defense is going for self defense. No one is saying what the driver or passengers, if any, in the car blocking the road witnessed. Thats the big unknown.

https://www.phillydefenseattorneys....-a-Person-Claim-Self-Defense-Under-Penns.aspx

 

[fizzyskittles]

Remember self defense is an affirmative defense . You are admitting to a crime but say their was a legal reason for your actions . Your innocent until proven guilty is now out the window . Now you must prove your innocence.
That’s a tricky situation.

 

[dailybuck777]

I have seen some really crazy stuff by drivers and pedestrians alike. I have been passed by people that thought I was going too slow (I wasn't) and they brake checked me - WTF? I have seen pedestrians walk into the road to cross the street without ever looking in any direction and I have to slam on my brakes and I get the finger? - again WTF?

One Saturday morning I was picking my daughter up from an empty park. I was driving away from the empty park in the parking lot. Someone I hadn't seen came from behind me on a bicycle and (unknown to me) was approaching to pass me on the side. I swerved slightly in the parking lot and apparently almost hit him. (If it was me, I would have anticipated that the driver of a car in an empty parking lot adjacent to an empty park wouldn't be looking backwards. The bicyclist obviously didn't think that way. ) He started circling my car with his bike and yelling and screaming at me. Glad I just left the parking lot instead of directly confronting him.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Remember self defense is an affirmative defense . You are admitting to a crime but say their was a legal reason for your actions . Your innocent until proven guilty is now out the window . Now you must prove your innocence.
That’s a tricky situation.

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/defending-self-defense-knife-use Knife use in self defense. the person interviewed here is Marck MacYoung, I linked two books on self defense by him earlier in this thread.

 

[fizzyskittles]

One Saturday morning I was picking my daughter up from an empty park. I was driving away from the empty park in the parking lot. Someone I hadn't seen came from behind me on a bicycle and (unknown to me) was approaching to pass me on the side. I swerved slightly in the parking lot and apparently almost hit him. (If it was me, I would have anticipated that the driver of a car in an empty parking lot adjacent to an empty park wouldn't be looking backwards. The bicyclist obviously didn't think that way. ) He started circling my car with his bike and yelling and screaming at me. Glad I just left the parking lot instead of directly confronting him.

You were wise to handle it the way you did. You were thinking, not reacting.

 

[fizzyskittles]

https://survivallife.com/using-knives-for-self-defense/

Read the article, then ask what the hell does this article have to do with self defense. It more training, combat, and fighting. Most self defense training is really combat training. You're learning to fight, not laws, descalation, avoidance, street smarts. You're learning to give a beating to someone then somehow believing your were justified in your actiuons.

I'll add that if the victim did what the accused did it would work the same way.

 

[Sharkies]

The 3rd guy in the Mercedes that night has been identified.... Uri Jacobson.. Appears he's also lawyered up, and yes, he's the same Uri Jacobson who served 30 months in federal prison for tax fraud... This case just gets curiouser and curiouser.....

 

[Sharkies]

As I mentioned when this thing first "broke"....


https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...atally-stabbed-in-philly.211891/#post-3549247



Who knows what the answers are...… but there was a lot more nuance to this thing from the get go - than the conclusions folks were jumping to.

Oh for sure, and reading that the POS Uri was involved is just amazing... No wonder the dude "ran", he just got out of prison and probably realized he instigated it.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

One Saturday morning I was picking my daughter up from an empty park. I was driving away from the empty park in the parking lot. Someone I hadn't seen came from behind me on a bicycle and (unknown to me) was approaching to pass me on the side. I swerved slightly in the parking lot and apparently almost hit him. (If it was me, I would have anticipated that the driver of a car in an empty parking lot adjacent to an empty park wouldn't be looking backwards. The bicyclist obviously didn't think that way. ) He started circling my car with his bike and yelling and screaming at me. Glad I just left the parking lot instead of directly confronting him.

Good for you.

My observation is that "passionate bicyclists" tend to be a bit "unhinged" and, generally speaking, like to "Feel the Bern".

 

[UncleLar]

Oh for sure, and reading that the POS Uri was involved is just amazing... No wonder the dude "ran", he just got out of prison and probably realized he instigated it.

Jacobson says he ran because he was chasing the perp, only realizing a few blocks later that he was chasing the wrong guy. ????

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/c...ing-memorial-radnor-high-school-20180717.html

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

The guy was a bike food delivery guy. It's quite likely he was wearing his backpack. Suppose Sellinger is on top of him choking him and the kid manages to reach back, pull a knife out of his backpack,then reach behind and stab Sellinger in the back. That's a scenario that could fit the known facts, at least the few that I know, and would certainly be construed as self-defense.

You are jumping to conclusions way too quickly.

Perhaps the most hypocritical and speculative post in the history of this board. Pure projectional entertainment.

 

[UncleLar]

Perhaps the most hypocritical and speculative post in the history of this board. Pure projectional entertainment.

Not hypocritical at all, but certainly speculative. It wasn't intended to suggest what actually happened. It's simply offering a counter proposal to the poster which stated that there was NO possible way that it could be self-defense. This is most certainly a possibility.

 

[dwiz]

This thread has gone from the PSU guy is completely innocent, to the black guy named white is 100% at fault, to a convicted felon is involved as we have no idea what is happening, all with no official statements. Maybe a good reminder to not project what you want the outcome to be until there is some sort of evidence presented.

 

[MJG-90]

Due process folks.

Repeat.

 

[lubrano]

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...e-stabbing-suspect-says-victim-was-aggressor/

 

[fizzyskittles]

This thread has gone from the PSU guy is completely innocent, to the black guy named white is 100% at fault, to a convicted felon is involved as we have no idea what is happening, all with no official statements. Maybe a good reminder to not project what you want the outcome to be until there is some sort of evidence presented.

Actually it hasn’t . There was an unnecessary altercation , this would often involve charges to all parties. In fights both usually get charged.
During the fight the young man drastically escalated the situation by pulling a knife and stabbing the victim. Due to how this incident went down it’s near a zero chance you can claim self defense and win.
And if their positions were reversed and dead guy stabbed the kid and he died it would play out the same .
There was an unnecessary confrontation started by the victim and his friend . Mr. White interjected himself in the situation and after that a fellow ended up dead.
I linked the self defense laws of Pennsylvania and I also linked an article about using a knife in self defense . Knives are more sssociated with bad guys than guns are. You better have a clean case if you’re using a contact weapon for self defense. He doesn’t .

 

[Sharkies]

Actually it hasn’t . There was an unnecessary altercation , this would often involve charges to all parties. In fights both usually get charged.
During the fight the young man drastically escalated the situation by pulling a knife and stabbing the victim. Due to how this incident went down it’s near a zero chance you can claim self defense and win.
And if their positions were reversed and dead guy stabbed the kid and he died it would play out the same .
There was an unnecessary confrontation started by the victim and his friend . Mr. White interjected himself in the situation and after that a fellow ended up dead.
I linked the self defense laws of Pennsylvania and I also linked an article about using a knife in self defense . Knives are more sssociated with bad guys than guns are. You better have a clean case if you’re using a contact weapon for self defense. He doesn’t .

You can pull up whatever statute you want. This ain't an open and shut, bad dude stabbed a guy in the back, man 1. A real, live jury gonna get this, and my hunch, and certainly if the defendant has a competent attorney, is he either walks or charges brought are substantially reduced.

Mark it down.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The 3rd guy in the Mercedes that night has been identified.... Uri Jacobson.. Appears he's also lawyered up, and yes, he's the same Uri Jacobson who served 30 months in federal prison for tax fraud... This case just gets curiouser and curiouser.....

+1 Alice....

 

[fizzyskittles]

He will end up being convicted of manslaughter or murder or plea to one of them .

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/pennsylvania-law/pennsylvania-voluntary-manslaughter-laws.html

Most likely his best case would be voluntary manslaughter. That’s probably the most likely outcome in this case since there was a mutual altercation . Worst case is is a third degree murder.
But he’s not walking . Mark that down. First he used a knife. Knives are associated with bad guys. Yes you can legally use one for self defense but it’s a poor choice.
It’s a contact weapon. It requires you to get into striking distance of your attacker.
Next it’s a very poor stopper. A sharp knife can cause a great deal of damage very quickly and the attacker might not feel it initially . He’ll stop when the blood loss gets to great which is usually death.
I know of two examples of successful self defense cases where the person used a knife. I can find hundreds with guns rather easily.
Go google Knipe self defense cases and see what you find .
Oh, do you have training in using that knife for “ self defense “ ? If so you’re probably screwed . Because I’m betting your combat training was just that , not actual self defense.
Guns are used by private citizens and the police for lawful self defense or lawful LE work. You will very seldom see either use a knife , again because the distance thing and because it’s a poor stopper compared to s pistol .
Knife wounds actually are more likely to kill you due to blood loss vs pistol wounds. It runs 1/4 for knives and app 1/10 for pistols on average.

 

[Sharkies]

UPDATE: charges have been downgraded to Third Degree Murder, Voluntary Manslaughter. Not a legal eagle, so don't entirely know the significance of this, but going from 1st to 3rd is usually a big deal.

 

[Art]

Says who? If it was a drug deal or not the weapon was obviously effective .
Either way, road rage, drug deal, or anything else it still is a tragedy .

Says someone who isn't a fool.

 

[BBrown]

They are already building the foundation for a self defense case and Schellinger's past criminal history will play a part in the defense. He was arrested three times.

Per the Philly inquirer:

"Schellenger has a criminal history including arrests in Chester County and Florida, including a 2008 arrest in Florida for disorderly conduct, battery and trespassing although charges were later dropped. He was found guilty of disorderly conduct in 2009 in Chester County, and previously charged in Chester County in August 2001 with burglary, resisting arrest, criminal trespassing, and theft, although the verdict in that case was unknown, the Inquirer reported."

I dont condone the use of the knife, but you can see where this is going.

Its looking more and more like a Road Rage incident.

 

[PSUcup1]

Its looking more and more like a Road Rage incident.

By whom?

 

[mn78psu83]

A well-researched article in today's philly.com.

Anatomy of a clash:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/s...-michael-white-larry-krasner.html?arc404=true

 

[UncleLar]

Good article - thanks for posting. Just a tragic incident for all parties involved.

 

[Alphalion75]

Didnt know he was a walk-on QB.

This is so awful. All he was doing according to the report was figuring out what was holding up traffic. This happens more times than people realize in the nicest of the city. RIP.

This is so sad, but he seemed to be doing more than just "figuring out" what was holding up traffic. The report seems to indicate that he initiated some kind of confrontation. No reason to be stabbed, but there are so many crazy people out there. You just never know what you'll confront when you get out of your vehicle.

 

[UncleLar]

Perhaps the most hypocritical and speculative post in the history of this board. Pure projectional entertainment.

Turns out that what you called "Perhaps the most hypocritical and speculative post in the history of this board" wasn't all that inaccurate after all.

 

[PSUcup1]

This is so sad, but he seemed to be doing more than just "figuring out" what was holding up traffic. The report seems to indicate that he initiated some kind of confrontation. No reason to be stabbed, but there are so many crazy people out there. You just never know what you'll confront when you get out of your vehicle.

That report wouldn’t be entirely accurate

 

[PSURAHJ]

... Worst case is is a third degree murder.
But he’s not walking . Mark that down. First he used a knife. Knives are associated with bad guys. Yes you can legally use one for self defense but it’s a poor choice...

He walked!

Michael White found not guilty of voluntary manslaughter in Rittenhouse Square stabbing of Sean Schellenger

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I followed the reports from the trial this week. Based on the testimony that was presented, I had a sense he would not be convicted. Really an unfortunate situation for everyone involved, and their families.

 

[NittPicker]

He walked!

Michael White found not guilty of voluntary manslaughter in Rittenhouse Square stabbing of Sean Schellenger

But found guilty of tampering with evidence. People don't tamper with evidence unless they're worried about something else they've done. If he felt he didn't do anything wrong, why tamper with evidence??

 

[Erial_Lion]

But found guilty of tampering with evidence. People don't tamper with evidence unless they're worried about something else they've done. If he felt he didn't do anything wrong, why tamper with evidence??

He stabbed a guy and killed him. I’m sure he was plenty worried about what happened.