You’re spinning. These last couple of years have a been a significant decline... has nothing to do with East and West. He’s losing to the “I” schools and that shouldn’t happen.
Franklin
- Thread starter WV Bruno
- Start date
Not arguing that PSU's record should have been better the last couple of years - yes, it should have. But teams lose to teams that they have no business losing to. Example: didn't OSU lose to Iowa and Purdue in back-to-back seasons a few years ago ? And I also read - on the Purdue board - that Purdue has the best B1G record against OSU in this century at 4-7. My point: strange stuff happens and I fully expect PSU to return to their winning ways in 2022
Decent schedule but still patsies littered throughout that year and we lost our biggie road game to Bama. No conf championship game either.You need to review the early 80's schedules. Here's an example:
1982 Penn State Nittany Lions Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
1982 Penn State Nittany Lions Schedule and Resultswww.sports-reference.com
Joe was a great coach, don't get me wrong, but he built up a ton of wins against inferior talented teams such as Temple, Rutgers, Maryland, Syracuse, WVU. Yes he had huge intersectional wins like in '82 beating ND and Nebraska. His bowl record is phenomenal and so he was a great coach but there is no way around it, he got a lot of wins against less talented teams.
I should add that even though Joe beat a lot of less talented teams it was Joe who built the monster. Meaning he built PSU into the power that could then recruit all the best players and have the talent advantage. He did not inherit and maintain, he built it. This is why he is on the Mount Rushmore of college coaches no matter what some idiot talking head thinks.
I appreciate Franklin's personality, ability to recruit, emphasizing academics, and keeping his players in line off the field. I am certainly not calling for him to be fired at this point.His players graduate and stay out of trouble. May no act of ours bring shame people. He's had us in the Fiesta, Rose and Cotton Bowl and even with the last two seasons we still are up there in wins in the last five years.
Miserable people like to bitch. It makes them feel better for what little they've accomplished. Like they could coach better.
There are questions however, and I don't think it is unfair to point them out. I certainly don't consider myself miserable.
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12-1, when? '08 we blew a game we should have won against Iowa then looked like we had not practiced pass defense against U$C.
Yes Franklin needs to improve. The last two years are unacceptable. But stop making the last few Paterno years look like he was Saban.
No excuse for not having a QB ready to play when Clifford got hurt at Iowa, and the Illinois loss at home was an embarrassment.
Maryland and WV had some very good teams over the years. Several ended up in top twenty, perhaps a couple in top ten IIRC. Syracuse had a couple decent teams. And all teams have some patsies on their schedules.
The Big Ten was the unquestioned top dog from the time Penn State entered the Big Ten well into the new century. The 94 team played the most difficult schedule any undefeated team has ever played.
Um, Franklin gets almost ALL of his wins against less talented teams, most of them significantly less talented.
Never said he didn't. Paterno did as well. Saban gets all his wins against less talented teams because he always has the best talent. Here is the difference, Paterno and Saban can get/got the big win in the clutch. Franklin for the most part has come up woefully short in that dept.
Fully agree, but for Franklin, he has all of one career win over a more talented team. 2016 Ohio State. That is it. His track record against equally talented teams is pretty awful as well. He has precisely three by my count if you do not count the post-season which typically has unique circumstances. One of which was during the COVID shortened season against Michigan which was dealing with even worse circumstances than Penn State. Two you don't include Michigan. One at Vandy, one at Penn State.
Yes. There are actually two different metrics to look at...
1) Winning with less talent
2) Winning a BIG game with equal talent or lesser talent, even with more talent
He is not good on either front and Paterno was excellent at this in his prime as evidenced by his stellar bowl record. Mostly #2 with Paterno as he rarely had less talent but I am sure there are examples.
I would give Franklin credit for O$U in '16 and Wisky in '16. Washington in '17. Maybe scUM in '17 and '19.
This new AD needs to hold him accountable for winning important games, however that is defined, ie against top 10 or 15 teams. Sandy Barbour seemed clueless.
I thought about 17 Washington but get back to, postseason is just different which is why I also did not include 16 Wisconsin. I don't Michigan had equal talent in 17 or 19.
With that said, how do you hold a coach that can't be fired for performance based reasons accountable? I think the only thing he can do is fire his assistants and cut his budget but there is no point in that because Franklin is not going to get a better contract anywhere else at this point because he is damaged goods.
Well, we have to consider that CJF was handed a shit show from the sanctions, limited roster, crappy position coaching, and a university in shambles. He had a crap executive team to work with. he did have a once-in-a-career RB to work with. Some kid named Barkley.
with that, he turned the PSU brand into something respectable. And then did some really great recruiting.
Then he had an absolute shit show, again, in 2020 and 2021 as the university and home state completely shit the bed on COVID. Last year, partly his fault and partly COVID, he entered the year with one QB that knew how to take a snap in a close game. And, of course, that guy gets hurt. In addition, the OL couldn't block their way out of a paper bag (which may have contributed to the lack of good QB play for anyone who didn't have two years of starter's experience).
So I give him a pass on the first three years (while he did great with McS and Barkley). I give him a pass on 2020 and 2021. This year is critical but we are now very weak at LB and DL. The O better bring it and we average over 30 PPG.
You are an easier grader on him than me. 2021 is on him. Yeah some unfortunate injuries with Clifford and Mustipher but he needs to rally the team and rise above. I look specifically at; 1) Not having an adequate backup QB; 2) Inexcusable loss to Illinois with seemingly no game plan to stop the run; 3) Losing a very winnable game vs scUM at home then blowing another game vs Sparty and finally; 4) As you say, the horrific O-Line who can't block to save their lives. All these factors are key issues that rest squarely on his shoulders.
Yes, he has recruited well but then seems to underperform with the talent. Sparty in '17 and '18 come to mind as well as UK in Citrus Bowl. Finally he manages to lose very winnable games that could have been his signature program defining victories but instead become bad losses for him and terrible memories for a loyal fan such as myself....the horrible come from ahead losses in those huge O$U games in '17 and '18 along with the miserable loss against U$C in the '17 Rose Bowl.
Looking ahead to this season he absolutely cannot have another s*** show season. Why are we thin at LB? No big deal we are only known as Linebacker U, wow! Hopefully with Mustipher back at DT and with the portal guy (forget his name) along with maybe DDS starting to emerge we will be okay. Let's just beat Purdue for now.
Lol...there are no passes. You give him credit when he has a good season and you do otherwise when not. No excuses.
The word "elite" is thrown around a bit to liberally when referring to Franklin's recruiting. He's recruited at a level that all PSU fans should be very pleased with. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, A & M, and Clemson have recruited at an elite level, not PSU.
Looking forward to ten more years! Year 56 since my first game at Beaver. Loved and respected Joe.
James runs a good program. Of course I'd love to win them all......but I'm not the coaching/football expert like the NNNNNCAC. My advice is, if being a PSU fan doesn't make you happy.....do something else.
And with that leverage he is accountable to no one, reflecting on poster who said the new AD needs to hold him accountable.
The situation Franklin inherited was far from a shit show. But he did turn it into one by bringing his incompetent offensive assistants and idiot thinking with him. Franklin turned a sure fire 10 win season into an embarrassing debacle. Why give him a pass on 2020 and 2021? He brought in system guys to run the offense, an offense that didn't have players that could execute. 2020 was going to be bad regardless of covid. That is a sorry excuse people use (much like the sanctions that only impacted 1 year) to let a mediocre to solid, but not good, head coach off the hook.
I believe he had seven offensive linemen on the entire roster when he took over from O'Brien. I am not blaming BO'B as he had limited 'ships. We got a Juco LT that gave up a sack to Temple when they only rushed two people. The team was good under JoeMo and winning a B1G a minor miracle at that time; thanks to Barkley, a great group of WRs and a good OL.
Then we had McSorley's senior year where we underachieved. Then COVID hit and it's been a shit show ever since.
His worst year was last year. The QB, OL and RB situation has been a mess while the D was really, really good.
Regardless, he has a lot of talent on the team that he recruited. This year is about results. Unless COVID hits again or there is a Nuke war, I won't give him another pass.
He was short linemen, but make no mistake, he had enough decent linemen to make a go at it but Donovan and company messed it up. The state of the line in 14 and 15 was 90% coaching, 10% roster. Franklin does not get a pass for screwing up. He brought his boys with him when he should have left them in Nashville. Ricky Rahne remains the worst QB coach in Big Ten history. Donovan is the worst coordinator in D1 history. Hand can only coach a spread zone blocking scheme. Gattis is a recruiter only that can't develop talent. Franklin brought them anyway and he should have known their limitations. He then doubled down on stupid by benching established starters for unproven freshmen that were not ready to play or slot receivers that couldn't play running back because they were BoB's guys.
The offense was going to be a shit show in 2020 regardless. So was the defense. He brought in KC to run the offense. System coach. He installed a pure zone blocking scheme none of the linemen could be expected to run. Clifford was closer to a classic west coast QB than a run first option QB like Trace but he really could only execute about 75% of the playbook while having to cure him of Rahne's influence. Defensively, they lost every key player up front. No, 2020 was going to be a 6-6 or 7-5 season regardless. Franklin then doubled down on stupid (theme) again and fired KC and brought in another system coach whose spread gap blocking scheme really didn't fit the roster, Clifford at QB could only effectively execute 60% of his system and the defense, while solid, had major flaws, like a complete lack of 5 technique ends on the roster and limited 3 technique tackles because of years and years of recruiting failures which aren't even failures, they are a feature.
Many years during that era Penn State had the TOUGHEST SCHEDULE…not just “decent”
I wouldn't say he's accountable to no one.....but he certainly laughs at Wallace Breen.
Explain the research you completed to conclude that Rahne is "the worst QB coach in Big Ten history."Dating
back to 1950.....what do the metrics say?LOL
People forget that Maryland was good under Bobby Ross. Nehlen fielded many "good" teams at WVU. Joe also played Lou's Notre Dame teams. Also, I know this season has two tough losses to good teams but Joe finished strong and had some nice wins. Tenn was a one loss team going into the bowl game.
1993 Penn State Nittany Lions football team - Wikipedia
What? Who stopped caring about player graduation? If we have a coach who wins the NC but doesn't graduate players, I won't support him.
Not sure we had the toughest schedule in the country back then but nonetheless we were lucky to have JoePa leading the program for all those years.People forget that Maryland was good under Bobby Ross. Nehlen fielded many "good" teams at WVU. Joe also played Lou's Notre Dame teams. Also, I know this season has two tough losses to good teams but Joe finished strong and had some nice wins. Tenn was a one loss team going into the bowl game.
1993 Penn State Nittany Lions football team - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Hackenberg was a less developed quarterback when he left than when he arrived in State College. That takes a special kind of incompetence given the fact that he consistently progressed throughout his freshmen season in a true pro-style offense most college QBs can't learn that quickly and that his last game under Bill O'Brien was the best any pro-style QB played the entire decade. That takes a special kind of incompetence.
ll
Why didn't your uncle BOB, snatch him up and make him all-pro?
Hack's QB rating was 79.4 in high school.....LOL 55tds ....33ints
Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without actually saying it. Oh wait, you just did. You are a clown of the highest order.
