Free or Folk?

[dunkej01]

Every year it seems someone starts a thread during the D1 offseason and FS season about posters preferred style. So this offseason its been voted on that I should take a stab at it and see where everyone currently sits. its also raining so I have some time on my hands before leaving for the day.

As you probably could predict Im all over the map with this.

1) I prefer to wrestle folk. Always did. But I think that is because in 80/90s youth wrestling didnt see the push or the glamor of FS/GR. Used to go to Russ Houk's training at BloomU with a group of kids. But it just never caught on for us/me.
2) I prefer to watch Americans in FS to run of the mill folk including D1 teams. But I do enjoy watching Russians lose, anywhere, anytime. Rocky IV/Red Dawn influenced, I think
3) PA or rather PSU wrestlers, alums and/or recruits influence my viewing of anything including FS. Stud D1 wrestlers too.
4) I would rather watch a high level FS tournament vs Beast of the east/iron man/etc finals unless #3
5) I enjoy watching 10 sec clips of GR scoring, but otherwise just not entertaining enough to keep my wandering attention.

I like the push out. I like the shot clock. Hate my lack of understanding of scoring. Towel wipe downs are understandable but odd. Want full wrestlebacks, not that thing nobody pronounces correctly. If 10-0 following trap arm/leg lace, should be stood up and made to score one more time.

Ok thats where I am at.

Its Great to be a Penn State FS Viewer!

We Are!

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Agree with everything, Dunk.
Bottom line is I love wrestling,never intersted in NBA, gave up NFL entirely, watch a bit of NHL and MLB, but nothing does it for me like wrestling, give me whatever wrestling is going on in that time of year and i’m IN.

 

[tullfan68]

Every year it seems someone starts a thread during the D1 offseason and FS season about posters preferred style. So this offseason its been voted on that I should take a stab at it and see where everyone currently sits. its also raining so I have some time on my hands before leaving for the day.

As you probably could predict Im all over the map with this.

1) I prefer to wrestle folk. Always did. But I think that is because in 80/90s youth wrestling didnt see the push or the glamor of FS/GR. Used to go to Russ Houk's training at BloomU with a group of kids. But it just never caught on for us/me.
2) I prefer to watch Americans in FS to run of the mill folk including D1 teams. But I do enjoy watching Russians lose, anywhere, anytime. Rocky IV/Red Dawn influenced, I think
3) PA or rather PSU wrestlers, alums and/or recruits influence my viewing of anything including FS. Stud D1 wrestlers too.
4) I would rather watch a high level FS tournament vs Beast of the east/iron man/etc finals unless #3
5) I enjoy watching 10 sec clips of GR scoring, but otherwise just not entertaining enough to keep my wandering attention.

I like the push out. I like the shot clock. Hate my lack of understanding of scoring. Towel wipe downs are understandable but odd. Want full wrestlebacks, not that thing nobody pronounces correctly. If 10-0 following trap arm/leg lace, should be stood up and made to score one more time.

Ok thats where I am at.

Its Great to be a Penn State FS Viewer!

 

[slushhead]

Always been a folk guy, and I tend to resist change.

 

[tullfan68]

folk all the way leg laces suck not near your back push outs suck they lock up and the stronger guy pushes out the other guy never even tried a TD yet he gets a point.why??only thing worse is greco!!to many other bad points I cant even count them all!

 

[amattaro]

Let the record show that @dunkej01 is responsible for starting WWIII.

 

[AndEEss]

Back exposure off a trap arm being worth the same as a takedown has always irked me.

Keep TDs at 2pts and make exposure 1pt, and I'm fine with a tech being 10pts.

 

[Reslo]

Both are excellent. I enjoy the differences between folk and free. And, freestyle today is a much better product than just a decade ago. Some flaws, sure, but overall quite happy to watch freestyle during the NCAA offseason.

 

[AgSurfer]

The freestyle rules that were in place 30-40 years ago made freestyle more exciting than today. There was a lot more emphasis on mat wrestling. This was advantageous to the US wrestlers, but don't think the Russians and other countries weren't good there too. Go watch some videos of guys like Gable, Sanders, Beloglazov or Yarygin dominating their opponents from the top position on the mat. The current system of just giving the wrestlers a short chance to score and then putting them back up again makes the competition less exciting.

 

[GantryZ]

Free is so much better to watch as a casual fan, but this sport sadly will never have casual fans. Folk rules the roost and I'll support both for the rest of my life.

 

[backdrft76]

 

[NittanyLion84]

I’ll watch FS, only if PSU guys are involved, but do not like the short interval on top after a TD and the lace or trapped arm leading to a tech in less than 20 seconds. Folk all the way, I like how in this style our guys have the opportunity to truly brutalize their opponents in a way that is not usually possible in FS.

 

[Folkstylefan]

Of course its folk for me, definitely no push out, as all you’ll see is a sumo match. Free is as European as their football, both not for my taste.

 

[The Japanese Whizzer]

Continuous action and scoring in freestyle are growing on me. My son took up freestyle this spring and has really taken an interest in it. The grind of wrestling is tiresome on kids and freestyle gives a break from that grind while keeping them on the mat. Folk style requires a wider skill set and limits the advancement of one trick ponies. I'm sure someone could develop a "BASEketball" version of wrestling combining the best of both. Greco is weird and boring.

 

[creamery freak]

I’ll watch FS, only if PSU guys are involved, but do not like the short interval on top after a TD and the lace or trapped arm leading to a tech in less than 20 seconds. Folk all the way, I like how in this style our guys have the opportunity to truly brutalize their opponents in a way that is not usually possible in FS.

Obviously most US wrestlers are at a disadvantage in Free when they have been wrestling mainly folk, with a little free sprinkled in, their entire lives. I wonder how much better Jason Nolf would be in Free if his entire wrestling career was devoted to that style. He definitely wouldn't give up easy exposure points trying winn dixies as we have seen in the past. Also the officiating and judging seems to be more inconsistent in Free and sometimes biased, if you ask me. I prefer folk but will watch Free when it is available.

 

[Hazy_Davey]

Of course its folk for me, definitely no push out, as all you’ll see is a sumo match. Free is as European as their football, both not for my taste.

The "it'll just be a sumo match" can't still be a valid argument. Have you ever watched freestyle at all? I don't know how you could watch the past Olympics and think that was sumo wrestling. DT vs Yazdani, Pretty much all of Gilman's run, and Gable vs both Geno and Taha were some of the most exciting wrestling matches I've ever seen. Please find me one match where the only scoring attempts were push outs form both parties...I'll wait.

I grew up wrestling folk, obviously, and at the time the freestyle rules were pretty weird(late 90s to mid 2000s). I also wasn't very good, so it's not like I was planning to go to any top level national FS tournaments. So I love folk for it's familiarity, the association with colleges, and the fact that it's not on at 3am over in Bulgaria.

I only started watching free seriously maybe 5-6 years ago and I have to agree its a more entertaining product. As exciting as an OT match in the national finals is, too often it means guys just leaning on each other for the last min of the match waiting for OT. I also don't know how anyone could watch this years folk season and not think the current way top wrestling is enforced is boring. Too many matches you have guys racking up 2-3 min of riding time with 0 attempts to turn. At least in Free when they stand guys up it's to get some action. Out of bounds rules in folk are also absolutely broken. Go back and watch AB's first national championship match. Trent stood out of bounds for probably 80% of the match. Standing OB shouldn't be encouraged. Then all you have are guys getting shot off the mat and no action or fun scrambles or scores. I love Folk, but the current rule sets lend to too many boring matches.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

The "it'll just be a sumo match" can't still be a valid argument. Have you ever watched freestyle at all? I don't know how you could watch the past Olympics and think that was sumo wrestling. DT vs Yazdani, Pretty much all of Gilman's run, and Gable vs both Geno and Taha were some of the most exciting wrestling matches I've ever seen. Please find me one match where the only scoring attempts were push outs form both parties...I'll wait.

I grew up wrestling folk, obviously, and at the time the freestyle rules were pretty weird(late 90s to mid 2000s). I also wasn't very good, so it's not like I was planning to go to any top level national FS tournaments. So I love folk for it's familiarity, the association with colleges, and the fact that it's not on at 3am over in Bulgaria.

I only started watching free seriously maybe 5-6 years ago and I have to agree its a more entertaining product. As exciting as an OT match in the national finals is, too often it means guys just leaning on each other for the last min of the match waiting for OT. I also don't know how anyone could watch this years folk season and not think the current way top wrestling is enforced is boring. Too many matches you have guys racking up 2-3 min of riding time with 0 attempts to turn. At least in Free when they stand guys up it's to get some action. Out of bounds rules in folk are also absolutely broken. Go back and watch AB's first national championship match. Trent stood out of bounds for probably 80% of the match. Standing OB shouldn't be encouraged. Then all you have are guys getting shot off the mat and no action or fun scrambles or scores. I love Folk, but the current rule sets lend to too many boring matches.

You are comparing apples to oranges because folk style does not have an exposure rule. Freestyle sets a better trap to keep guys from just pushing on the edge. I think to have a pushout you need an edge exposure rule to go with it. I prefer folk by a wide margin, but support wrestling general.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I am learning to enjoy freestyle as much as folk. I can understand why some wrestlers might enjoy freestyle more than folk as well as how greater emphasis on freestyle could benefit international performance of USA wrestlers. That said, the USA seems to be doing all right.

At times I have trouble with the subtlety of who is credited with initiating a move when it comes to freestyle scoring. I don't like how freestylers sometimes game the grounded rule.

I like how freestyle allows continuation of moves out of bounds. A larger mat area beyond out of bounds with similar continuation in folk might partially address defensive / counter edge wrestling in folk.

I prefer the more rapid standing up of wrestlers in freestyle to lengthy non-turning parallel rides without either stalling or a stalemate being called. But here I think all that is needed is alignment between coaches and referees regarding how to apply current rules.

Since freestyle emphasizes exposure while folkstyle emphasizes control, I understand the guts and leg laces. That said, maybe the initial takedown and first turns could be worth more (two) and any subsequent turns (one).

 

[SCub]

Strong preference for folk but free is gaining on me as i watch/pay more attention. Its interesting that every college level wrestler I’ve ever talked to very much prefer freestyle over folk.

 

[crablegs1]

Back exposure off a trap arm being worth the same as a takedown has always irked me.

Keep TDs at 2pts and make exposure 1pt, and I'm fine with a tech being 10pts.

Do you think that trap arms should be worth more? Seems that there are significantly more TDs than trap arms indicating it is much harder to turn someone than take them down.

 

[Cstroke]

I enjoy both Free and folk style. Refs need to call stalling more often and with more consistence and life would be great.
When Folk is wrestled like it should be it's tough to beat that product.

 

[ss7]

While my preference will always be folkstyle, I certainly enjoy watching both.

The one thing that holds me back with freestyle is the subjectivity of some of the exposure calls in scrambles. I'm sure some of it is just my relative lack of experience in watching freestyle, but I find myself being frustrated sometimes because I just don't know why certain sequences are scored the way they are during the course of the match.

 

[AndEEss]

Do you think that trap arms should be worth more? Seems that there are significantly more TDs than trap arms indicating it is much harder to turn someone than take them down.

No, I think that they should be worth less. When someone DOES get a trap arm, unlike in Folk, they don't have to get to another hold to score again. The defensive wrestler just has to get back to a "defensible position", but the offensive wrestler can maintain the hold. So, you can get a TD + 4 laces or guts and end a match really, really quickly. There were dozens if not hundreds of 1 TD matches that ended early at the US Open.

See Robbie Howard's first match at U20s. Robbie scored first, then Spratley took him down. Spratley got another TD, making it 4-2, then got 4 trap arm guts to end it 12-2.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Both are excellent. I enjoy the differences between folk and free. And, freestyle today is a much better project than just a decade ago. Some flaws, sure, but overall quite happy to watch freestyle during the NCAA offseason.

Ditto that, there are quite a number of things that I like AND dislike in both styles, but I like the contrast.

 

[nerfstate]

 

[mhs103]

The freestyle rules that were in place 30-40 years ago made freestyle more exciting than today. There was a lot more emphasis on mat wrestling. This was advantageous to the US wrestlers, but don't think the Russians and other countries weren't good there too. Go watch some videos of guys like Gable, Sanders, Beloglazov or Yarygin dominating their opponents from the top position on the mat. The current system of just giving the wrestlers a short chance to score and then putting them back up again makes the competition less exciting.

The FS rules in place at the time of the Munich Olympics were more reflective of aggressive wrestling in that the bottom wrestler actually attempted escapes and reversals as opposed to today's FS rules which result in the bottom wrestler assuming the position of a flattened skunk in the middle of a highway. Seeing a skilled, highly conditioned wrestler hugging the mat with arms and legs extended for a few seconds in hopes of avoiding a series of turns is not my idea of wrestling.

 

[jack66]

I'm learning to respect Free a little more, but here's my problem with the rules. A wrestler can win by technical superiority in just a short time, even though he might not be a technically superior wrestler or even the better wrestler.

We just saw an example this past weekend. In the 1st round, Haines lost by tech, 10-0, to Munro in a little more than 2 minutes ... domination, right? A few rounds later Levi returned the favor 12-2.

I know we just saw Glory and Vito exchange majors this season, but IMO a major decision rarely turns the other way anytime soon in Folk.

 

[tullfan68]

oh yea the decision on last pt sucks to why not go overtime??how many matches have been decided on a pushout,sorry but that is not wrestling!

 

[NittanyChris]

Folk, without question. It's ludicrous that one guy can be highly mobile and aggressive and take more shots but if the other guy is "controlling the middle", then the guy who is shooting gets put on the clock. Absurd. Also, not a fan of the pushout, doesn't seem like a real skilled wrestling maneuver. This isn't Sumo Wrestling. We should not reward the Iowa Style tie the guy up and push toward the border behavior. My two cents.

 

[HOCKEYGOD11]

Folk>free>WWE>greco

 

[KSLion]

Every year it seems someone starts a thread during the D1 offseason and FS season about posters preferred style. So this offseason its been voted on that I should take a stab at it and see where everyone currently sits. its also raining so I have some time on my hands before leaving for the day.

As you probably could predict Im all over the map with this.

1) I prefer to wrestle folk. Always did. But I think that is because in 80/90s youth wrestling didnt see the push or the glamor of FS/GR. Used to go to Russ Houk's training at BloomU with a group of kids. But it just never caught on for us/me.
2) I prefer to watch Americans in FS to run of the mill folk including D1 teams. But I do enjoy watching Russians lose, anywhere, anytime. Rocky IV/Red Dawn influenced, I think
3) PA or rather PSU wrestlers, alums and/or recruits influence my viewing of anything including FS. Stud D1 wrestlers too.
4) I would rather watch a high level FS tournament vs Beast of the east/iron man/etc finals unless #3
5) I enjoy watching 10 sec clips of GR scoring, but otherwise just not entertaining enough to keep my wandering attention.

I like the push out. I like the shot clock. Hate my lack of understanding of scoring. Towel wipe downs are understandable but odd. Want full wrestlebacks, not that thing nobody pronounces correctly. If 10-0 following trap arm/leg lace, should be stood up and made to score one more time.

Ok thats where I am at.

Its Great to be a Penn State FS Viewer!

We Are!

Sportswatching is pretty much limited to college football and amateur wrestling (prefer folk- to free- but enjoy watching either). All pro sports went out the door several decades ago, have not been missed at all, and at this point in life that's not likely to change.

 

[jack66]

We should not reward the Iowa Style tie the guy up and push toward the border behavior. My two cents.

Thing is, Iowa isn't having much success at freestyle either.

QUALIFIERS FOR THE 2022 SENIOR WORLD TEAM TRIALS

Men's freestyle:

Current or former Nits plus NLWC members - 16

Current or former Hawks plus HWC members - 5
(I included Gilman with each even though he gives NLWC all the credit for reviving his wrestling)

HR regulars keep claiming their style is superior to ours ... they say anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't know wrestling.

I guess I'm one of the ignorant ones 🤥but I wish they would at least explain to me what style it is that rewards their superior wrestling genius.🤷‍♂️

 

[bwfight]

My favorite styles are Indian leg wrestling and thumb wrestling, but since those styles weren’t included in the posting title, I prefer folk.

I really enjoy mat wrestling but would like to see less parallel riding and more attempts to turn.

 

[El-Jefe]

Best part of folk: PSU dominance

Best part of free: NLWC dominance

 

[PAgeologist]

The "it'll just be a sumo match" can't still be a valid argument. Have you ever watched freestyle at all? I don't know how you could watch the past Olympics and think that was sumo wrestling. DT vs Yazdani, Pretty much all of Gilman's run, and Gable vs both Geno and Taha were some of the most exciting wrestling matches I've ever seen. Please find me one match where the only scoring attempts were push outs form both parties...I'll wait.

I grew up wrestling folk, obviously, and at the time the freestyle rules were pretty weird(late 90s to mid 2000s). I also wasn't very good, so it's not like I was planning to go to any top level national FS tournaments. So I love folk for it's familiarity, the association with colleges, and the fact that it's not on at 3am over in Bulgaria.

I only started watching free seriously maybe 5-6 years ago and I have to agree its a more entertaining product. As exciting as an OT match in the national finals is, too often it means guys just leaning on each other for the last min of the match waiting for OT. I also don't know how anyone could watch this years folk season and not think the current way top wrestling is enforced is boring. Too many matches you have guys racking up 2-3 min of riding time with 0 attempts to turn. At least in Free when they stand guys up it's to get some action. Out of bounds rules in folk are also absolutely broken. Go back and watch AB's first national championship match. Trent stood out of bounds for probably 80% of the match. Standing OB shouldn't be encouraged. Then all you have are guys getting shot off the mat and no action or fun scrambles or scores. I love Folk, but the current rule sets lend to too many boring matches.

You said the key word in making folk more exciting. Enforce. The rules are there to nail guys with stalling for parallel rides, running to OOB line, etc. The refs aren't calling them for whatever reason. I'd even break out the never used double stall warnings. I'd be fine with more stalemates during rides if no turns for NF.

 

[Folkstylefan]

Hazy you ever watch the golden yrs of Gables Iowa teams for the most part its, club push, club push till they wear or daze their opponents. Definitely dont want to see that again. Thats what we’ll see with a push out rule.

 

[El-Jefe]

Hazy you ever watch the golden yrs of Gables Iowa teams for the most part its, club push, club push till they wear or daze their opponents. Definitely dont want to see that again. Thats what we’ll see with a push out rule.

What this argument means, every time it's made: opponents are incapable of keeping themselves in bounds.

 

[tullfan68]

Thing is, Iowa isn't having much success at freestyle either.

QUALIFIERS FOR THE 2022 SENIOR WORLD TEAM TRIALS

Men's freestyle:

Current or former Nits plus NLWC members - 16

Current or former Hawks plus HWC members - 5
(I included Gilman with each even though he gives NLWC all the credit for reviving his wrestling)

HR regulars keep claiming their style is superior to ours ... they say anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't know wrestling.

I guess I'm one of the ignorant ones 🤥but I wish they would at least explain to me what style it is that rewards their superior wrestling genius.🤷‍♂️

lol we all know ryan and brands are way better coaches than Cael just ask them!!I guess titles dont count!

 

[NittanyChris]

What this argument means, every time it's made: opponents are incapable of keeping themselves in bounds.

I guess it depends on how much one values keeping oneself in bounds as a wrestling skill. It’s not high on the list IMO. Folk by miles.

 

[tullfan68]

oh yea one more thing sick of seeing Americans get screwed by russian refs no incentive to watch that crap!