They finished 3rd, 2nd and 5th in Day's first 3 years as a head coach and you're trying to be critical when it's safe to say Franklin likely will never finish in the top 5.
Football High School / College Games Thread (8/27)
- Thread starter Dylan Callaghan-Croley
- Start date
I am a diehard PSU fan. I love them and have loved them for 46 years. Despite that you have to look at things objectively and you clearly are not.
Penn State is no where close to O$U's level and it is NOT simply because O$U has so much better talent. It is better but not necessarily even significantly better. To make the assertion that James Franklin would be winning all these nattys if he had the O$U roster is one of the worst takes ever. James Franklin is a significantly worse coach than Ryan Day and I really dislike O$U and LOVE PSU so it pains me to admit that but you need to face facts. James Franklin has underperformed every year since 2017. The last two years have been atrocious at .500 but even '17-'19 sucked when you look at winnable games he should have won but blew. O$U and MSU in '17, O$U, MSU, UK in '18, Minny in '19. You think he is overperforming in these years? Wow! Heck even 2016 when he blows games vs Pitt and U$C while getting blown out vs scUM. You could argue we caught fire for a few games and got real lucky vs O$U that year on a fluke play.
Meanwhile Ryan Day just racks up wins. Yeah he lost to Bama in '20 and scUM in '21 but he has O$U in the conversation and in the playoff or right outside of it and NO not because he has all the best players.
Franklin has upgraded talent close to Ohio State albeit behind them but that is no excuse to lose to them essentially every year.
Face it, Ohiya has better coaching than PSU that puts them in position to win close games as well as games they should win. Franklin has a lousy record with this. Of course there are games you can point to and then incorrectly generalize that the coaches are poor but that is incorrect. If you look at it this way every coach including Saban is not up to par. Saban lost to O$U in 2014, Clemson in 2016, Clemson in 2018 then could not even make the playoff in 2019. Then he blows it against Georgia in 2021. He clearly is underperforming given all the talent he has. C'mon give me a break.
The top 20 team composite talent over the last 5 years (average of their last 5 years of team talent) is as follows:
Alabama 989.8
Ohio St 975.1
Georgia 969.3
USC 905.2
LSU 896.3
Clemson 891.7
Texas 863.4
FSU 861.4
Oklahoma 854.4
Michigan 850.3
Notre Dame 849.8
Florida 845.8
Texas A&M 842.5
Auburn 842.4
Penn St 828.5
Tenn 819.3
Miami 809.2
Oregon 798.6
Washington 779.3
UCLA 758.5
SC 745.8
NC 724.4
Miss St 722.6
Nebraska 720.2
Now what do you notice? Here's what I see.
1) There's a bigger drop-off in talent between #3 and #4 than between #4 and #14 in talent.
2) 2 of those top 3 in talent win natties. The other underachieved for at least the last 5 years.
3) #5 and #6 also won a recent natty. But not #2, #2 has been embarrassed when they make the playoffs recently.
4) #15 PSU and even #10 Michigan aren't even close to Ohio St in talent. In fact, we are much closer to unranked talent than we are to Ohio St in talent.
By the numbers, according to team talent, Ohio St is the first big underachieving team. USC, Texas, and FSU have underachieved just as much as Ohio St despite having much less talent than Ohio St. Penn St has overachieved for a few seasons and underachieved the last 2.
You've gone completely insane here
Ohio State has finished in the top 5 EVERY YEAR of Day's career which is only 3 years--he's still young and learning how to be a head coach.
The fact you want to claim he's underachieved and somehow Penn State hasn't is beyond absurd.
You need to accept the reality that Franklin isn't on Day's level as a coach or a recruiter. Until you do so you're going to remain confused.
I am using objective data from the last 5 years. I'm not just saying Ohio St has underachieved, the data says it very clearly. If PSU has Ohio state's talent and we don't win a natty with 5 years of that absolutely top tier talent, then you could fire Franklin. The data would support it. Day has underachieved with the talent on hand. There are only 3 teams that should have shared the titles and one of them doesn't show up. Kudos to LSU and Clemson for getting it done with 2nd tier talent that is a BIG notch below Alabama, Ohio St, and Georgia.
Agree but we did not get 85 scholarships restored until 2015-16. 2016 was pretty magical, given playing with limited talent and no depth at all. 2017 and 2018 OSU were crushing losses as should have won both but Franklin did not have horses on OL or DL lines late. Unforgivables were the MSU games as D'Antonio outcoached him both times. Those were the cracks. 2019 was a good season but OSU was just better team. MN was brutal as outcoached by Fleck. Tanner Morgan was nearly perfect against us while Clifford was far from it. 2020-2021? Clearly breakdowns with coaching and game strategy across board.
Who claimed that PSU would be winning all these natties with Ohio St talent? That was never stated. Granted there are only 2 other teams with Ohio St talent and those two have won a number of the recent natties. Why hasn't Ohio St? They clearly have better talent than 3 of the 4 teams with recent natties, yet Ohio St gets embarrassed when they play similar talent. Is that due to their good coaching?
Explain how Michigan State and Cincy make CFP if it is all talent and not coaching?
Somehow they have more talent than us too
And we all know recruiting services are 100% correct
I never said it was all talent and not coaching. It clearly is both or Ohio St would have some recent natties. They don't because they have the elite talent but have underachieved due to poor coaching. That's what lead us down this discussion. Another poster claimed Ohio St wins due to good coaching and I objectively proved that untrue. They win alot due to a huge talent edge but they also have lost more than they should and cannot win at the highest level because their coaching is not good enough.
Your fundamental premise is flat out wrong and ignorant. You believe Ohiya gets to the playoff or right outside it due to only talent and their coaching is below average or whatever the heck the word is but the point being is you think their coaching is inferior to Penn State's.
Dude, you would get laughed out of the room with any objective college football analysts with this take.
Basically you are saying it takes very little coaching prowess to navigate Ohiya to the playoff every year and then since they don't win it all they have awful coaching. So let's take the coach of UConn and make him Ohio State's HC tomorrow. You actually think that guy would get the same results as Ryan Day? Think about that.
The converse of your argument is equally absurd. Saying James Franklin is overperforming or whatever lame ass argument you are making to support him so blindly. He clearly has issues with in game coaching and game strategy on top of not being able to rally a team after disappointing losses. Yet he is better than Ryan Day. Unbelievable.
The '17 and '18 Ohiya games should have been Ws for us notwithstanding line fatigue as you state. No excuses, as the HC you gotta close on those games, just have to do that. We had those games won, step on their throat yet Franklin could not finish. Needless to mention the atrocious 4th down call to end the '18 game. I will go to my grave still pissed about that.
In that '17 Rose Bowl we have 3 future NFL starters at skill positions along with a really solid QB yet blow a double digit lead to an inferior team. Never giving Franklin a break on that one.
