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Hodge Voting Open - RBY and AB on the ballot

Spencer Lee is going to top Steveson the ‘past credentials’ and ‘sportsmanship/citizenship’ criteria. Personally I think annual athletic achievement awards should be strictly on athletic achievement for that year and leave the things like citizenship & heart to other awards.

I also don’t like fans voting for awards unless it is only fans voting which makes it a clear fan favorite, or in today’s terms, a keyboard warrior favorite award.

If I were to vote according to my criteria, I’d vote for Steveson. By the Hodge criteria, gotta go Spencer Lee.
 
manatree said:
I also don’t like fans voting for awards unless it is only fans voting which makes it a clear fan favorite, or in today’s terms, a keyboard warrior favorite award.
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The fan vote doesn't have a big impact on the Hodge. The wrestler that wins the fan vote will receive five (5) votes as a result in the voting. All former Hodge Trophy winners, wrestling media members, and former college coaches make up the bulk of the voting.
 
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Tom McAndrew said:
The fan vote doesn't have a big impact on the Hodge. The wrestler that wins the fan vote will receive five (5) votes as a result in the voting. All former Hodge Trophy winners, wrestling media members, and former college coaches make up the bulk of the voting.
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Wow......I could have sworn it was 2 votes. Would have lost a lot of $ on that one :) This year...5 votes could make the difference. Of course....I voted for RBY so probably not :)
 
I thought it would be a no-brainer year, but it's really not.

It's not Spencer's fault, but he wrestled in a weak weight class this year.
However, he won it with the highest bonus % and a torn ACL (2?).

Then you look at Steveson, he was absolutely dominant in a tough division.
He brings life into what is sometimes the most dull weight class.
However, this is his first championship, and he had fewer pins (4 to 5)

I put them both on our team in my fantasy vote just to try and remove anti Iowa bias, and I chose Gable.
My reasoning isn't one of the catagories but it should be. Most improvement. Gable is clearly a different wrestler now than two years ago. He would bonus his old self imo.

I'm sure Spencer will win it though, and I have no issues with that at all. I just wish he had some guys that would push him a little so he could make the same jump Gable did.
 
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Tough call this year just like everything else associated with this year. I like Steveson because of the level of competition but it is relative. I don't Lee special points for winning injured.

All said I wouldn't have an issue with either winning.
 
Give me AB...

All the talk about Spencer and Gable, but compare their Interviews with ABs and there’s the sportsmanship edge (not to mention his handling of the match against Brands). The kid is undefeated with tons of bonus in a tough weight class. He’s unshakable and always respectful. Wrestled through injuries two years in a row and won b2b B1G titles and the only NCAA title he had an opportunity to win.

Lots of criteria with the Hodge - call it blue and white lenses if you want, but I vote AB.
 
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I think Gable and Spencer were probably equally dominant, but Spencer didn't beat anyone in his class the caliber of Parris, who'd have been a champ in any other year. For me, Gable majoring Parris at the B1Gs tips the scales. Not Spencer's fault that his weight class cleared out, but there are only so many variables to pick from when you're making an apples and oranges comparison to decide best wrestler regardless of weight class.

I imagine for some voters Spencer's knee injury might tip the scales, but I think to the extent that Nolf's knee-related losses were considered against him, Spencer's diminished performance as a result of the knee injury shouldn't be simply disregarded. Overcoming injuries makes for great narratives but for Hodge consideration, I don't see why an injury should be reasoned to elevate one wrestler past another, all else being equal.

Despite going undefeated, RBY wasn't in many Hodge conversations, probably because he wrestled a lot of close matches. But he arguably beat the most accomplished wrestler (behind Spencer and maybe Gable) in the finals in Fix. Clearly not enough, but good to see him mentioned.
 
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I voted for Gable as my real vote, and used a couple other emails to throw our guys a bone. I'm looking forward to seeing AB on this list every year from here on out (and winning it at some point).
 
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Reminder: the Hodge Trophy has set criteria:

"The Dan Hodge Trophy is based on seven criteria including record, number of pins, dominance, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship and heart."

When going thru the actual criteria, Lee and Steveson are the only real candidates, and Lee should win. Of course the voters don't always follow the criteria (cough cough Zain vs Dieringer).


1. Record: wash, everyone is undefeated.

2. # pins: Lee 5 (12 matches), Steveson 4/17, Carr 4/20

3. Dominance: Lee 5.00, Steveson 4.88, Carr 4.25

4. Past credentials: 100% Lee. The only previous champ -- 2x returning + last year's Hodge winner. And nobody can get the "graduating senior" sympathy vote.

5. Competition: spitballing here but my order would be Steveson, RBY, Carr, Brooks, O'Connor, Lee. 1 and 6 seem solid; 2 and 3 maybe could be switched; 4 and 5 maybe could be switched.

6. Sportsmanship/citizenship. Unmeasurable. Perhaps some voter dings Steveson over the dropped charges, otherwise this is a wash.

7. Heart. Maybe Lee gets credit for winning while injured, otherwise a wash. Griffith would win this hands down, except he's not a finalist.
 
caliPSUfan said:
Give me AB...

All the talk about Spencer and Gable, but compare their Interviews with ABs and there’s the sportsmanship edge (not to mention his handling of the match against Brands). The kid is undefeated with tons of bonus in a tough weight class. He’s unshakable and always respectful. Wrestled through injuries two years in a row and won b2b B1G titles and the only NCAA title he had an opportunity to win.

Lots of criteria with the Hodge - call it blue and white lenses if you want, but I vote AB.
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I'm not sure how many interviews of Spencer you have watched but he sure exudes sportsmanship to me! I would say on&off the mat but Spencer is kinda mean on the mat.. :)
 
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WildTurk said:
I'm not sure how many interviews of Spencer you have watched but he sure exudes sportsmanship to me! I would say on&off the mat but Spencer is kinda mean on the mat.. :)
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Not trying to knock Spencer, but I thought he went a bit over the top compared to his usual with his NCAA interview...just my opinion. Not even saying I didn’t like it, just a bit extra. AB just comes off better to me.

I can remove the bias by stating that I typically preferred Nolf’s interviews over Bo’s too. Just a preference
 
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I'd be shocked if it doesn't go to Spencer, I think what Gable did on the mat was definitely more impressive this year (not that it's Spencer's fault his competition is weaker) but all else equal and I think Spencer's ACL-less knees (heart) and his past criteria will give it to him. Voters can reprioritize for their own standards. For example, it's clear "Past Achievements" was weighed way way more during the Ringer/Zain vote. That and some voters who don't like to have fun probably actually tries to dock Gable's sportsmanship points.

That being said, I don't think Gable cares all that much for the Hodge. He seems ready to move on from wrestling. What more can he do in college? It has to be pretty boring for him to just do whatever he wants at this point. He can't do the 4 timer or undefeated career anymore (thanks to our very own Anthony Cassar)
 
caliPSUfan said:
Give me AB...

All the talk about Spencer and Gable, but compare their Interviews with ABs and there’s the sportsmanship edge (not to mention his handling of the match against Brands). The kid is undefeated with tons of bonus in a tough weight class. He’s unshakable and always respectful. Wrestled through injuries two years in a row and won b2b B1G titles and the only NCAA title he had an opportunity to win.

Lots of criteria with the Hodge - call it blue and white lenses if you want, but I vote AB.
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Tons of bonus?? He had zero, ZERO pins, 2 tech falls and a 50% bonus. While only bonusing his first-round opponent at ncaas. Compared to Steveson 82% bonus and Lee 91% bonus?

HHahahahahahaha
 
Tom McAndrew said:
The fan vote doesn't have a big impact on the Hodge. The wrestler that wins the fan vote will receive five (5) votes as a result in the voting. All former Hodge Trophy winners, wrestling media members, and former college coaches make up the bulk of the voting.
Click to expand...

That’s five votes too many in my opinion. Fan votes by their very nature are always popularity votes determined by the Chicago vote early and vote often policy especially with fans voting with multiple email accounts.

I’ve also never understood the point of an annual award that counts past history as a criteria.

Bottom line, I think Spencer wins based on all the criteria. In my opinion, Steveson was the best wrestler this season.
 
caliPSUfan said:
Not trying to knock Spencer, but I thought he went a bit over the top compared to his usual with his NCAA interview...just my opinion. Not even saying I didn’t like it, just a bit extra. AB just comes off better to me.

I can remove the bias by stating that I typically preferred Nolf’s interviews over Bo’s too. Just a preference
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I agree.
Although, that was the first time I had ever seen that really. I'll give him a pass. Nobody's perfect and I'll bet even Aaron Brooks loses his cool sometimes.
 
ClarencButthorn said:
What does it mean to bear a child?
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I imagine your parents had to bear a lot with you.
giphy.gif
 
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El-Jefe said:
Reminder: the Hodge Trophy has set criteria:

"The Dan Hodge Trophy is based on seven criteria including record, number of pins, dominance, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship and heart."

When going thru the actual criteria, Lee and Steveson are the only real candidates, and Lee should win. Of course the voters don't always follow the criteria (cough cough Zain vs Dieringer).


1. Record: wash, everyone is undefeated.

2. # pins: Lee 5 (12 matches), Steveson 4/17, Carr 4/20

3. Dominance: Lee 5.00, Steveson 4.88, Carr 4.25

4. Past credentials: 100% Lee. The only previous champ -- 2x returning + last year's Hodge winner. And nobody can get the "graduating senior" sympathy vote.

5. Competition: spitballing here but my order would be Steveson, RBY, Carr, Brooks, O'Connor, Lee. 1 and 6 seem solid; 2 and 3 maybe could be switched; 4 and 5 maybe could be switched.

6. Sportsmanship/citizenship. Unmeasurable. Perhaps some voter dings Steveson over the dropped charges, otherwise this is a wash.

7. Heart. Maybe Lee gets credit for winning while injured, otherwise a wash. Griffith would win this hands down, except he's not a finalist.
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Sounds like Lee to me.
Past credentials is a big thing to this award and from the beginning of the year this award was Spencer’s to lose. I can’t see how that changed over the year.
Competition is a funny thing. Parris is an outstanding wrestler but win in “any” other year is fairly subjective too. He would have won this year but for Gable. He wouldn’t have won if it was Cassar he was wrestling. Does he beat Gwiz? In Spencer’s case, Courtney would have won if not for Spencer.
For that matter Brandon Hatchet could have been champ if not for David Taylor. I guess my point is Spencer is simply one of the most dominant wrestlers we’ve seen. Gable has his first championship and he’s dominant too. But I can say in 10 years I will definitely recall Spencer as better.
This is all good argument, tho. There’s no great way to create comparisons when they will never meet.
 
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Cowbell Man said:
Sounds like Lee to me.
Past credentials is a big thing to this award and from the beginning of the year this award was Spencer’s to lose. I can’t see how that changed over the year.
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I’ve never understood why past credentials are a factor in an annual award.
 
Cowbell Man said:
I agree but I didnt make the rules. Lol.
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How far in the past are voters allowed to look? What about Greco & Freestyle credentials? Is it just past college credentials? High School? Middle School? Athletic credentials of their parents?
 
Some of the criteria is ridiculous. Heart and sportsmanship should be written off right away. I thought both deserved it but was going with Gable. I think this is a great thing. Spencer’s the best 125lber in a long time and Gable is the best HW in the last thirty years.
 
CurtisLoew40 said:
Some of the criteria is ridiculous. Heart and sportsmanship should be written off right away. I thought both deserved it but was going with Gable. I think this is a great thing. Spencer’s the best 125lber in a long time and Gable is the best HW in the last thirty years.
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Gable might become the best HWT in the last 30 years, but right now he's not the best HWT in the last 10 years.
 
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