How will Penn St fare vs Michigan & Ohio St this year?

[Wallace Breen]

two rose bowls, fiesta bowl, cotton bowl and a big ten title in ten years.

show me a 10 year period after 1986 where joe did significantly more

you could say the period that included '05 and '08 but that was preceded by some crappy years, the worst since the 1930s

Two Rose Bowls? So what. The standard changed. It is far easier to get to the Rose Bowl, Fiesta Bowl and Cotton Bowl that it was during Joe's era. That is a fact.

Joe did more in his last ten years than Franklin has in his first ten and it isn't close, and that includes the dark years. Franklin's best team would be no better than third best, probably fourth. While talking about the dark years, it must be said that the schedule we played in 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2004 were considerably harder than what we play every year in the current Big Ten. Never mind what we played the other years.

Franklin is a good coach on a good day. He isn't Joe at any point of his career and right now, he is the 8th best coach in the Big Ten. Maybe. Could be worse.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

While talking about the dark years, it must be said that the schedule we played in 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2004 were considerably harder than what we play every year in the current Big Ten.

yeah that 2003 schedule was a real murderer's row. who could've won more than 1 B1G game that season ( besides almost all of the other teams )?

 

[LandoComando]

two rose bowls, fiesta bowl, cotton bowl and a big ten title in ten years.

show me a 10 year period after 1986 where joe did significantly more

you could say the period that included '05 and '08 but that was preceded by some crappy years, the worst since the 1930s

I understand the point you're making but the Rose Bowl, Fiesta Bowl and Cotton Bowl are what they were when Paterno was here. For example, we were 3rd last year in the Big Ten East and got to the Rose.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I understand the point you're making but the Rose Bowl, Fiesta Bowl and Cotton Bowl are what they were when Paterno was here. For example, we were 3rd last year in the Big Ten East and got to the Rose.

yeah and usually Paterno didn't do even that

the norm was a Citrus bowl or Alamo Bowl type of season

he lost to Michigan nine times in a row before Carr finally left

 

[Wallace Breen]

This 100%. I have never been able to figure out why OSU cannot field an even average defense over the last few years. With decent defenses, they would have won another NC or two.

In reality, I honestly think it will be a 3-team race in the East. I think this is the year that PSU can overtake both UM and OSU

It will likely be a four team race with Michigan State.

 

[LandoComando]

yeah and usually Paterno didn't do even that

the norm was a Citrus bowl or Alamo Bowl type of season

Don't misunderstand--I wanted Joe to retire in 2000 but his 2005-2012 run was better than what Franklin has accomplished IMO. Although I don't disregard COVID years as everyone was dealing with the same issues.

 

[Wallace Breen]

yeah and usually Paterno didn't do even that

the norm was a Citrus bowl or Alamo Bowl type of season

he lost to Michigan nine times in a row before Carr finally left

Um, the Citrus Bowl was the number 2 option all but the last few years of Joe's tenure.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Don't misunderstand--I wanted Joe to retire in 2000 but his 2005-2012 run was better than what Franklin has accomplished IMO. Although I don't disregard COVID years as everyone was dealing with the same issues.

I guess you could argue that, though i would say it was comparable. The crappy Morelli and Bolden years were in that window. also to get a 10 year window you have to include '03 and '04 when Joe delivered teams that were not only bad but close to the worst in the country

 

[ND Heaven68]

It will likely be a four team race with Michigan State.

Not so sure as I've read on a few advance projections that this could be a down year for MSU. I follow the B1G and ND closely (of course) and read that OSU and UM are huge favorites over MSU this year. I think PSU will be right there with those two IF the OL and Allar turn out to be really decent.

BTW, I love ND being independent but feel it's just a matter of time before they're in the B1G. Just the way it is no matter how much most ND fans resist it

 

[Wallace Breen]

Not so sure as I've read on a few advance projections that this could be a down year for MSU. I follow the B1G and ND closely (of course) and read that OSU and UM are huge favorites over MSU this year. I think PSU will be right there with those two IF the OL and Allar turn out to be really decent.

BTW, I love ND being independent but feel it's just a matter of time before they're in the B1G. Just the way it is no matter how much most ND fans resist it

Those in the know expect Michigan State to rebound. They may have the best QB in the league and have the best defensive player. They won't be playing half the schedule the the majority of their two deep on defense on the sideline like they did last year.

 

[Wallace Breen]

I guess you could argue that, though i would say it was comparable. The crappy Morelli and Bolden years were in that window. also to get a 10 year window you have to include '03 and '04 when Joe delivered teams that were not only bad but close to the worst in the country

Not only could you argue that but even the Crappy Morelli Morelli years (06 played against a much harder schedule than Franklin has ever seen) were better than what we have seen lately. And no, even Joe's worst teams were not close to worse in the country. We played close to the hardest schedule in the country during those years. We had issues but we played those schedules close. The book is written. Franklin beats bad teams. He loses to good teams and is less than .500 against better than average. Until Franklin rewrites it by actually earning his pay, those are the facts.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Not only could you argue that but even the Crappy Morelli Morelli years (06 played against a much harder schedule than Franklin has ever seen) were better than what we have seen lately. And no, even Joe's worst teams were not close to worse in the country. We played close to the hardest schedule in the country during those years. We had issues but we played those schedules close. The book is written. Franklin beats bad teams. He loses to good teams and is less than .500 against better than average. Until Franklin rewrites it by actually earning his pay, those are the facts.

The '03 team was horrible. so was the '04 team

and the '06, '07 and '10 teams were pretty mundane. The '11 team was ok. '09 was good but blew their chance against Iowa

you are left with three really good teams in 10 years ('02, '05 and '08, and '02 underachieved)

 

[ND Heaven68]

Those in the know expect Michigan State to rebound. They may have the best QB in the league and have the best defensive player. They won't be playing half the schedule the the majority of their two deep on defense on the sideline like they did last year.

Not so sure as I've seen a few WAY TOO EARLY projections and haven't seen MSU mentioned in any of them. Here's a couple but as mentioned - EARLY. Most have OSU, UM and PSU in the top 5 to 7 but no MSU. I have seen Iowa and Wisky and even Nebraska on one or two

Here's a couple

College football's Way-Too-Early Top 25 for 2023

The 2022 college football season may have just ended, but Mark Schlabach already has a top 25 for next year.

www.espn.com

College football rankings: Preseason top 25 for the 2023 season

Here are preseason college football rankings for the 2023 season.

www.ncaa.com

 

[The Spin Meister]

two rose bowls, fiesta bowl, cotton bowl and a big ten title in ten years.

show me a 10 year period after 1986 where joe did significantly more

you could say the period that included '05 and '08 but that was preceded by some crappy years, the worst since the 1930s

Those bowls are no longer the measuring stick they once were. Used to be those bowls were only for the very best teams and often were two teams playing for the name of national champ.

But with the playoffs those bowls are often the second tier teams that didn’t make the playoffs. This year’s Rose is a prime example.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

2-0

 

[rrdd2021]

Those bowls are no longer the measuring stick they once were. Used to be those bowls were only for the very best teams and often were two teams playing for the name of national champ.

But with the playoffs those bowls are often the second tier teams that didn’t make the playoffs. This year’s Rose is a prime example.

Agree and you have to wonder what happens to those Bowls when the playoffs expand to 12 teams in 2024. Just not the same as it used to be.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Those bowls are no longer the measuring stick they once were. Used to be those bowls were only for the very best teams and often were two teams playing for the name of national champ.

But with the playoffs those bowls are often the second tier teams that didn’t make the playoffs. This year’s Rose is a prime example.

agreed, but, it still takes 10 and 11 win seasons to get there. people act like Paterno was doing this on a regular basis and it isn't true. he was cranking out 8-9 win regular seasons and collecting a paycheck. this is most of the final 15 years under joe

 

[lazydave841]

schedule is too formidable

Until we beat 10 or 11 of them. Then it's "the schedule was weak". See '22s preseason predictions that we would lose 5 to 7 games compared to the current "that schedule was weak".

Those in the know expect Michigan State to rebound. They may have the best QB in the league and have the best defensive player. They won't be playing half the schedule the the majority of their two deep on defense on the sideline like they did last year.

Best QB? Highly unlikely they have the best QB in the state of Michigan. Much less the conference.

Who is this best defensive player?

Anybody who things they have a handle on Sparty is probably crazy. Nobody predicted NY6 in '21 and Nobody predicted the sharp decline in '22.

 

[ND Heaven68]

2-0

I'm lost. What does this mean ?

 

[Wallace Breen]

agreed, but, it still takes 10 and 11 win seasons to get there. people act like Paterno was doing this on a regular basis and it isn't true. he was cranking out 8-9 win regular seasons and collecting a paycheck. this is most of the final 15 years under joe

In 2022, we played the weakest schedule we have played since the 80s. Despite that, we were uncompetitive against Michigan and followed the same script against Ohio State (outwardly competitive for three quarters but not in the fourth) to be interpreted as not actually being competitive. The goal posts have changed. Franklin is playing against a different standard. We only starting playing 12 regular season games during the mid-00s. That is huge. With the playoffs, more top tier teams are getting moved away from the formerly top tier bowl games. The Rose bowl has turned into the Citrus bowl circa 04. A ten wins season is equal to an eight or nine win season in 2006.

 

[LandoComando]

Agree and you have to wonder what happens to those Bowls when the playoffs expand to 12 teams in 2024. Just not the same as it used to be.

Hopefully they no longer exist and the playoff goes to 16 then 20 then 24.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

In 2022, we played the weakest schedule we have played since the 80s. Despite that, we were uncompetitive against Michigan and followed the same script against Ohio State (outwardly competitive for three quarters but not in the fourth) to be interpreted as not actually being competitive. The goal posts have changed. Franklin is playing against a different standard. We only starting playing 12 regular season games during the mid-00s. That is huge. With the playoffs, more top tier teams are getting moved away from the formerly top tier bowl games. The Rose bowl has turned into the Citrus bowl circa 04.

you can keep repeating that, but, it doesn't change the fact that Paterno single-handedly turned a top 5 program into a top 25 program after 1999. and it seems like Franklin has gotten it back to the top 15

 

[Wallace Breen]

Hopefully they no longer exist and the playoff goes to 16 then 20 then 24.

Sorry, I disagree. The bowl season as it existed pre BCS/Bowl-Alliance/Bowl-Coalition was the greatest event in sport. It blew away the NCAA invitational and the NIT. It was much better than the contrived nonsense we have seen since. The Bowl Season as it was in 1990 was as close to perfect as you get. College football is not the NFL. The playoffs are an abomination and should be destroyed. They serve no purpose. They do not crown a true champion. They do not honor the spirit of the game. They are pathetic.

 

[bison13]

I'm lost. What does this mean ?

The original question asked, how would Penn State do against Ohio State and Michigan this year

 

[fairfaxlion2]

The original question asked, how would Penn State do against Ohio State and Michigan this year

i also think they will beat both this season

if they lose one i think it will be Ohio State

 

[LandoComando]

Sorry, I disagree. The bowl season as it existed pre BCS/Bowl-Alliance/Bowl-Coalition was the greatest event in sport. It blew away the NCAA invitational and the NIT. It was much better than the contrived nonsense we have seen since. The Bowl Season as it was in 1990 was as close to perfect as you get. College football is not the NFL. The playoffs are an abomination and should be destroyed. They serve no purpose. They do not crown a true champion. They do not honor the spirit of the game. They are pathetic.

This makes zero sense--a 24 team playoff with all conference winners absolutely crown a title. The bowls never did. There is no such thing as a national champ without a playoff.

 

[LandoComando]

i also think they will beat both this season

if they lose one i think it will be Ohio State

I hope this is true--I haven't seen enough the past couple years to say we will beat them. Comes down to Allar and how the kids develop but on paper Ohio State and Michigan are favored.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

This makes zero sense--a 24 team playoff with all conference winners absolutely crown a title. The bowls never did. There is no such thing as a national champ without a playoff.

but there is no Blockbuster Bowl.

that's what made 1990 perfect

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I hope this is true--I haven't seen enough the past couple years to say we will beat them. Comes down to Allar and how the kids develop but on paper Ohio State and Michigan are favored.

the team we have coming back is stacked imo

i would compare this to the off-season between 1993 and 1994

 

[rrdd2021]

Sorry, I disagree. The bowl season as it existed pre BCS/Bowl-Alliance/Bowl-Coalition was the greatest event in sport. It blew away the NCAA invitational and the NIT. It was much better than the contrived nonsense we have seen since. The Bowl Season as it was in 1990 was as close to perfect as you get. College football is not the NFL. The playoffs are an abomination and should be destroyed. They serve no purpose. They do not crown a true champion. They do not honor the spirit of the game. They are pathetic.

So you're saying that back in the 1990s, the crowned National Champion was truer than it is today in the PLayoff era as the top teams at least have to do it on the field - not through Polls when the NC was crowned through a bunch of bowl games between a couple of teams? Really?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

So you're saying that back in the 1990s, the crowned National Champion was truer than it is today in the PLayoff era as the top teams at least have to do it on the field - not through Polls when the NC was crowned through a bunch of bowl games between a couple of teams? Really?

some people really believe this

i don't get it, it's like saying less competition and more arbitrariness is better for the game

 

[Wallace Breen]

some people really believe this

i don't get it, it's like saying less competition and more arbitrariness is better for the game

The facts support it. There was more competition and les arbitrariness during the bowl era than there is now. Accept it or not, that is a fact. It is undeniable. Look at the SEC during the BCS era. The SEC objectively played the softest schedules in America year in year out in the years since. The playoff era has made it worse. There is less competition now across the board than there was in the early 90s. Deal with it.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

I'm lost. What does this mean ?

The question was, how do we fare vs Mich and OSU?

 

[Wallace Breen]

So you're saying that back in the 1990s, the crowned National Champion was truer than it is today in the PLayoff era as the top teams at least have to do it on the field - not through Polls when the NC was crowned through a bunch of bowl games between a couple of teams? Really?

Yes, in the 90s, the championship was crowned on the field. The so-called playoff era is nothing more than contrived nonsense. It is absolutely not determined on the field. It is determined more by the media than the old system as shocking as that may be.

 

[Wallace Breen]

The question was, how do we fare vs Mich and OSU?

We lose both games.

 

[rrdd2021]

some people really believe this

i don't get it, it's like saying less competition and more arbitrariness is better for the game

Just doesn't make any sense AT ALL. It's like saying some people are stuck in the past and refuse to move on. Like you said, before the Playoffs, the NC was strictly arbitrary. Some of the bigger named programs had built-in advantages back then when it came to the final poll voting.

 

[rrdd2021]

Yes, in the 90s, the championship was crowned on the field. The so-called playoff era is nothing more than contrived nonsense. It is absolutely not determined on the field. It is determined more by the media than the old system as shocking as that may be.

Oh Good God. How was it more determined "on the field" than it is right now when the 4 top teams (soon to be 12) have to play each other? I actually think you "have tongue-in-cheek" writing some of this.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Yes, in the 90s, the championship was crowned on the field. The so-called playoff era is nothing more than contrived nonsense. It is absolutely not determined on the field. It is determined more by the media than the old system as shocking as that may be.

did that happen in 1990, 1991, 1994 and 1997? i mean that is almost half of the 1990s right there and the championships were not decided on the field

 

[rrdd2021]

Yes, in the 90s, the championship was crowned on the field. The so-called playoff era is nothing more than contrived nonsense. It is absolutely not determined on the field. It is determined more by the media than the old system as shocking as that may be.

So I take it you're a PSU fan? By your example, Nebraska was the true NC in 1994 - as voted on in the Polls - even though Penn State also went undefeated and finished an arbitrary #2 in the Poll voting? I expect an answer. In today's system, they would have squared off in the Playoffs. Please respond

 

[ND Heaven68]

So I take it you're a PSU fan? By your example, Nebraska was the true NC in 1994 - as voted on in the Polls - even though Penn State also went undefeated and finished an arbitrary #2 in the Poll voting? I expect an answer. In today's system, they would have squared off in the Playoffs. Please respond

Wallace can't answer you. you just hit it out of the park. I come over every once and a while and it seems like he just likes to get people worked up with his jibberish.