I am so.
No, wait - shoot. No I am not. You are right.
Haven't read any of this yet, so I reserve the right to come back and comment
Huh??
- Thread starter PSUer1989
- Start date
No, wait - shoot. No I am not. You are right.
Haven't read any of this yet, so I reserve the right to come back and comment
Gable used the scholly amount how he saw fit. Take out of state cost times 9.9 and then use that total dollar figure to divide between everyone how you see fit. In state recruits could get an 80% scholly while using only 60% of one scholly. Fuzzy math so to speak.
Ok. I read the post. The initial, cough, cough Penn State thread wasn't nearly as fun as I was expecting.
The the post was maybe the 3rd post in a thread titled "recruiting". The post goes out of its way to point a finger at Penn State/Cael for doing something that while technically legal is ethically lacking.
It reads like some like some goof with nothing better to do and an imagination several notches (measured in magnitude) below that of slush's decided to write a Cael slam response. My guess is "justwrestle133" believes Penn State cheats somehow and he threw his BS out there to stir a frenzy. It would have helped if a major portion of his post wasn't an explicit example of what he thinks, but is just wrong.
Only a few goofs jumped in to say "yeah, finally."
Not nearly as entertaining as I expected.
I will just have to wait until Big10's and ncaa for entertainment
The the post was maybe the 3rd post in a thread titled "recruiting". The post goes out of its way to point a finger at Penn State/Cael for doing something that while technically legal is ethically lacking.
It reads like some like some goof with nothing better to do and an imagination several notches (measured in magnitude) below that of slush's decided to write a Cael slam response. My guess is "justwrestle133" believes Penn State cheats somehow and he threw his BS out there to stir a frenzy. It would have helped if a major portion of his post wasn't an explicit example of what he thinks, but is just wrong.
Only a few goofs jumped in to say "yeah, finally."
Not nearly as entertaining as I expected.
I will just have to wait until Big10's and ncaa for entertainment
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Note he didn't link the interview or some credible source. justwrestle133 is talking out if his a$$.
There was something even worst that Q did and you weren't aware of. Q gave me his National Championship ring from 2011 to wear on my hand as I talked to him for half and hour and he failed to ask for it back... I actually had to give it back to him. Imagine not wanting his shiny sapphire and diamond laden property back he worked so hard for.
Back in 1998 I went to see Penn State at Lehigh. Big crowd at Stabler areana. Billman's freshman year, first local match. After the match I go to a big Lehigh hangout called the Tally Ho. In walks John Fritz, we're standing at bar having a few when I get talking to him about scholarship allotment. He proceeds to tell me how certain programs had created endowments to help pay some of the expenses affiliated with the team involved. I honestly sensed a lot of frustration on his part what other schools were doing. He stepped down later that year. I would think that there might be situations now that maybe Penn State is benefiting from and Iowa doesn't like it.
Something tells me the Penn State staff does everything allowable by the NCAA to maximize the financial assistance available to the kids on the team.
Something also tells me no matter what, for some time to come some Iowa folks are just going to be dribbling spittle down their chins ranting incoherent Penn State and or Cael gibberish.
Upvote, for no other reason, than "dribbling spittle down their chins."
Not referring to anything wrong or illegal. When Fritz spoke of the endowment trust he was specific on the amounts involved.He had just started to set up a program to compete against Iowa not on the mat but behind the scenes. Maybe 8 plus years later with a lot of success perhaps Iowa is chasing our situation.
No idea what Fritz was talking about but endowments are not new, they've been around for a LONG time. Plus, they are merely a source of revenue and have nothing to do with how many ships you can give out, which is 9.9 no matter how well endowed your program is.
Despite all the complaining, Iowa still has the largest operating budget in college wrestling. Here is a list of BigTen team's:
Iowa - $416,803
Minnesota - $397,899
Penn State - $328,089
Ohio State - $296,044
Nebraska - $270,144
Michigan - $239,993
Wisconsin - $215,642
Rutgers - $211,905
Northwestern - $193,441
Maryland - $183,687
Purdue - $183,035
Michigan State - $152,304
Indiana - $144,871
Illinois - $139,239
(these numbers do not include staff salaries and scholarships).
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When I saw those numbers over on the mat I was shocked. Illinois vs Maryland...ouch
I suspect if you factor in coaching salaries and scholarships money, Iowa would remain the clear #1. Both Brands brothers make six figures and they are fully funded at 9.9, including plenty of money for all those out of state guys they have been getting that cost a lot more.
HR poster did some Poke-worthy backpedaling. Not a choir boy meant Q on the mat. Didn't dig into employee discounts at the schools he cited, just heard that's what they were. Didn't mean a bunch of things he said before.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
I prefer to see it as you proving your humanity because ti err is human.D'oh. I'm a dope. Deleted my post
To err i human. I prefer to think of it as you proving your humanity. I am overwhelmingly human.D'oh. I'm a dope. Deleted my post
That boy backpedaled so hard and so fast he should have been called for stalling, but we all know a Hawk never stalls when in Hawk Land.
If I recall at the time,1998, Fritz was frustrated that Penn State had started the endowment drive a few years after some of the other schools. It most likely had impacted recruiting and coaching staff hiring. I know he spoke of 2 different endowments, one for the athletes which I think the goal was 2 million. The other endowment was for staff and the goal was set at 1 million,
Not completely true, though the program is fully-funded. I'm sure that's what you mean.
There are less than 10 endowments, and some of those are for coaching positions. The remaining scholarships are funded through annual giving to the NLC.
I am enjoying the education fellas....however, could someone further explain the income streams for the wrestling program? How much of that income comes from.....Athletic department? Endowments? Ticket sales? Etc.? Second, the endowment....how is that funded and what can it and can it not be used for? I've read it is used for salaries and schollies.
Banach pinned Thacker in 1982 in early round of NCAA's. I watched Thacker wrestle twice in his senior year 1984. Once at Lehigh in an all star match and in the NCAA finals at the Meadowlands. I'm not saying Banach wouldn't beat him, but Thacker had improved quite a bit from 2 years prior. He was tough score on from his feet. Only chance was turning him from top.
I also saw Thacker in 84 and have to agree he was much improved by then and a tough out for anyone. I was amazed at how agile he was at his size. Him and Banach were such a contrast. Banach just looked so small compared to most heavies of the day. I remember Rick Peterson from Lock Haven who I think was about 6 ft 5 and 275 and even he was dwarfed by Thacker. Banach 215 or 220 or thereabout.
No I meant 100% endowed, that is what I thought. I thought they got that accomplished long ago.
I stand corrected.
I wrote the post in question and will gladly clarify any and everything.
Someone, asked why Brands treats Gilman and Clark differently, referring to his prematch and post match lets say excitement levels.
I responded with this is what good coaches do and used Cael's interactions with Q, Taylor, and Brown. They are all different people with different style. I stated Q wasn't a choir boy on the mat. He had some attitude to him. He didn't always come off as the most likable of guys if you weren't a PSU fan. This includes prematch introductions and even a simple handshake. Cael clearly had a different relationship with each of them. Brown was an adult. You all know his story better than I, but he was older (I think completed a mormon mission before enrollling) and I believe he was married. Taylor was like his son, again you know the his story better than I, but didn't he used to drive quite a distance to get some training in with Cael when he was a kid. Then you have Q, who was not a recruit of Cael's, he was a holdover from the previous staff correct? That was my original train of thought when using those three guys for my example. However, I wasn't using their history before PSU or their off the mat actions for this example at all.
That relationship along with a wrestler's mindset, attitude, and demeanor all needs to be utilized by a coach in order to motivate them to perform the best and it is very different for different athletes. I wanted to use Cael because he is considered the best right now. I tried to think of wrestlers under him that were very different from each other wrestling style wise and most importantly how they were perceived by opposing fan bases. Q, DT, and Brown were as different as I could think of at the time. I am sure better examples exist.
Q always seemed very fired up before competing and certainly was at the conclusion of big matches ala Gilman. Taylor on the other hand had some similarities to Clark in that he always seemed a little more calm and collected. This showed up on the mat in my opinion and the both thrived under Cael. You may not share this opinion, but many people I know who watched Q wrestle would walk away thinking that Q was not a choir boy. That was why I used that term. I was not trying to insult Q at all. Also, the topic was Gilman and Clark, who both are outstanding citizens and stay out of trouble as far as I know.
Literally someone asked in like the next post if Q had ever got in trouble and I responded quickly and clarified that I wasn't talking about any off the mat stuff at all. As far as legal issues I can honestly say I know of nothing with Q.
As for the comment about the "loophole." I stated PSU wasn't breaking any rules at all, but that people have discussed the potential implications of assistance grey shirts athletes get and red shirts athletes and even athletes competing out of season in different styles. Go to the Penn State scout forum and search GoFundMe there is a lengthy thread on that board, where PSU fans are discussing the topic and questioning if they should be donating money to different organizations, groups, and even straight to a kid's gofundme. Don't take it from me. Take it from your own people. I also elaborated later. Other posters took it to mean kids tuition was being paid and that illegal things were happening, but that is not what I said at all.
Someone, asked why Brands treats Gilman and Clark differently, referring to his prematch and post match lets say excitement levels.
I responded with this is what good coaches do and used Cael's interactions with Q, Taylor, and Brown. They are all different people with different style. I stated Q wasn't a choir boy on the mat. He had some attitude to him. He didn't always come off as the most likable of guys if you weren't a PSU fan. This includes prematch introductions and even a simple handshake. Cael clearly had a different relationship with each of them. Brown was an adult. You all know his story better than I, but he was older (I think completed a mormon mission before enrollling) and I believe he was married. Taylor was like his son, again you know the his story better than I, but didn't he used to drive quite a distance to get some training in with Cael when he was a kid. Then you have Q, who was not a recruit of Cael's, he was a holdover from the previous staff correct? That was my original train of thought when using those three guys for my example. However, I wasn't using their history before PSU or their off the mat actions for this example at all.
That relationship along with a wrestler's mindset, attitude, and demeanor all needs to be utilized by a coach in order to motivate them to perform the best and it is very different for different athletes. I wanted to use Cael because he is considered the best right now. I tried to think of wrestlers under him that were very different from each other wrestling style wise and most importantly how they were perceived by opposing fan bases. Q, DT, and Brown were as different as I could think of at the time. I am sure better examples exist.
Q always seemed very fired up before competing and certainly was at the conclusion of big matches ala Gilman. Taylor on the other hand had some similarities to Clark in that he always seemed a little more calm and collected. This showed up on the mat in my opinion and the both thrived under Cael. You may not share this opinion, but many people I know who watched Q wrestle would walk away thinking that Q was not a choir boy. That was why I used that term. I was not trying to insult Q at all. Also, the topic was Gilman and Clark, who both are outstanding citizens and stay out of trouble as far as I know.
Literally someone asked in like the next post if Q had ever got in trouble and I responded quickly and clarified that I wasn't talking about any off the mat stuff at all. As far as legal issues I can honestly say I know of nothing with Q.
As for the comment about the "loophole." I stated PSU wasn't breaking any rules at all, but that people have discussed the potential implications of assistance grey shirts athletes get and red shirts athletes and even athletes competing out of season in different styles. Go to the Penn State scout forum and search GoFundMe there is a lengthy thread on that board, where PSU fans are discussing the topic and questioning if they should be donating money to different organizations, groups, and even straight to a kid's gofundme. Don't take it from me. Take it from your own people. I also elaborated later. Other posters took it to mean kids tuition was being paid and that illegal things were happening, but that is not what I said at all.
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The interview I was referencing was about a year and a half ago give or take and was discussed by PSU fans at the time. Someone asked him his opinion about some group that was contributing assistance to athletes and Cael was very... I don't know the perfect adjective to use here...short with the journalist. He did not want to discuss the topic at all and wanted to make sure that he stated he had no idea what the jurnalist was talking about. However, most non-PSU people and even some PSU people commented that Cael was acting out of the ordinary.
I don't know where I could even find that interview now. It really is a negligible part of the topic anyway and was completely an opinion of his perceived attitude toward the topic.
If I am talking out of my bottom, than I don't know what to say about your fan base because I have heard many PSU fans as well as non-PSU fans discuss this topic. That is a fact.
I don't know how you got that when I said multiple times that what is occurring is currently completely within the rules. I do not think Cael or PSU are cheating at all. In fact I don't believe Cael or PSU even want to have any outside people organizations attempting to help in such a way. I think Cael would see it as a high risk, low reward situation and he doesn't need it even remotely to win at PSU. It is a very small thing to begin with.
I did misspeak about employee's receiving tuition assistance. I didn't intend for that to come off the way that it did. I attempted to clarify that. I wanted to say that the children of coach's could have completely free tuition and not count against the 9.9 scholarship total so long as that was the policy for all similar employees. I said I didn't know the specific policy's at OSU, tOSU, or OU, but even if it was 100% free it could be well within the rules. Many schools do offers tuition assistance for qualified dependents of employees. That is not a rare thing. I believe someone looked out PSU and you guys offer a steep discount. If Cael had a kid who was on the wrestling team, he could receive this benefit and it would not be a NCAA violation.
I have to admit when I make a mistake and there I completely misspoke and my sentiment was completely lost. That was my fault. That wasn't how I intended to present that idea. I was simply trying to say, that even the most extreme example that someone could think of still isn't a violation, but I did that poorly.
I actually stand by everything that I said in regards to PSU.
Employee benefits at different schools had nothing to do with PSU and I still stand by the idea that I was trying to get across there. I just did a poor job trying to illustrate an example that was hypothetical and came off as literal and that is my fault. I was trying to say that it was not a violation, that is all. That part I would edit.
Also search for the discussion surrounding Cassar's fundraising for some off season freestyle event he wanted to compete in. This is not a new topic.
Again, you don't link the interview, you don't link a news source, you don't link Penn State fans discussing it. Instead you tell us to go find it. You're the one with the burden of proving what you say; find it yourself! You expended a lot of energy posting multiple times defending yourself so why not use some of that energy to find the interview in question.
In the end, this post is just more - it's true because I said it's true. You then back peddle and say it's just an opinion but you essentially stated it as a fact with no mention of it being your opinion previously over on HR. Furthermore, you were wrong with many things you posted about scholarships and how they worked for family members so why shouldn't your credibility be questioned. You come off nothing more then another self anointed internet expert with nothing but bias opinion-driven conclusions.
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Not to mention putting this on the HR as an annoymous poster. Not necessarily the "no spin zone".
If your so sure of yourself and so well placed (according to Gobblin) write an Op-Ed and show the world where psu is wrong.
Ill go out on a limb that you wont. SAD!
If your so sure of yourself and so well placed (according to Gobblin) write an Op-Ed and show the world where psu is wrong.
Ill go out on a limb that you wont. SAD!
To compare the actions of Quentin Wright with those of Gilman is laughable, ludicrous, ridiculous and a stretch of honesty almost beyond comprehension.
You "heard" about employee assistance at anOSU, Okie State, and (offhand don't remember) one other school, and didn't dig into it.
I posted the link to Ohio State's employee tuition discount policy in the same thread. I found it by googling "Ohio State employee discount" -- took me less time to find it and post to HR than for me to type the first 2 paragraphs of this reply.
And yet, the longer you continued to comment on that thread, the more you continued to ignore the evidence that was immediately available to you.
And, since I don't expect you to look this up: Cael has had exactly 1 kid on the roster who was a dependent of a PSU employee -- Luke Frey's father is head coach at a branch campus (they live about 10 min away from that campus). PSU did not give the employee discount because his father had not been employed by the university a full year before Luke's enrollment.
And there have been others who were eligible for the PSU employee discount who went to school elsewhere. Offhand one example is Rider's 125 JR Wert, who grew up in Bellefonte before moving to Virginia and still has direct relatives in Centre County. So it's not like Cael is going full out to exploit "loopholes."
Don't sing it. Bring it.
All you "stand by" is a vague allegation of some "loophole" without describing what it was. The only example you cited is one which PSU demonstrably does not utilize.
And you did it on HR, where conspiracy theories about PSU cheating are rampant. You had to know the result. Fire, add gasoline.
If you have something specific that PSU is doing, say so. Otherwise ...
