This is the same Q that after he pinned an opponent stayed kneeling on the mat until his opponent stood up out of respect for his opponent. Talk about revisionist history.
Huh??
- Thread starter PSUer1989
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This is the same Q that after he pinned an opponent stayed kneeling on the mat until his opponent stood up out of respect for his opponent. Talk about revisionist history.
Including Kilgore, who repeatedly elbowed Q in the back of the neck when action carried them out of bounds.This is the same Q that after he pinned an opponent stayed kneeling on the mat until his opponent stood up out of respect for his opponent. Talk about revisionist history.
And, the same Q, who, after beating Kilgore, didn't raise his hands, didn't jump around, simply walked over to center circle, took off his ankle band, stood up and blew kisses, first to his wife, then to the Penn State fan base. No showboating, no sense of arrogance, cockiness, whatsoever.This is the same Q that after he pinned an opponent stayed kneeling on the mat until his opponent stood up out of respect for his opponent. Talk about revisionist history.
I understand that if you suggest alligations of wrong doing it would benefit to have proof.,But I also feel college athletic programs are almost impossible to compare . From leagues and institutions having different guidelines on enrollment, to the states and public schools have unique guidelines on assistance and the coaches and athletic departments handling discipline in different ways. Lehigh and Cornell would have tougher acceptance policies but their money offered would be greater than most schools. If a New Jersey resident wrestles at Rutgers his scholarship would be worth less money than the The PA wrestler that goes to PSU. The state of NJ resident public school tuition is far less than Pennsylvania residents have to pay if they go to PSU. The discipline and guidelines can differ from school policy to coaches decision. Look what happened recently at Florida St and Michagan and the football program. When Ruth screwed up and got suspended, maybe he continues to wrestle at Oklahoma State. I think you can argue the whole concept of the NCAA is very judgemental.
All of that is great and everything, but I didn't ask him for proof. I asked him for actual examples.
Let's not forget that "loophole" is a charged word that implies cheating. That may or may not have been the intent, but it was certainly reckless to throw that out without any actual examples -- especially on HR.
And let's not provide those examples for him. The person who makes accusations has an obligation to support them himself. He doesn't get to be Claude Lemieux, starting a fight and then standing on the side and watching everyone else go at it.
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I don't think the "whole concept of the NCAA is very judgmental" at all. In the absence of rules (whatever the context), what happens is chaos, and essentially a free-for-all. Think about that for a second.
NCAA Rules are a "floor" standard, or the minimum requirements any school must follow. They level the playing field, and if a league like the Ivy League wants to create rules above and beyond the NCAA Rules, they can.
But this is only the sports side of things. Colleges/universities exist for academic reasons, not for athletic ones. All of the differences between colleges and universities regarding things like enrollment guidelines, cost to attend, tuition reimbursement, and many other aspects of college "systems", have little or nothing to do with sports. And the general NCAA position on all those systems that relate to ALL students is that student-athletes not be treated any differently.
Wow. If someone is looking for a former PSU wrestler that most typifies Gilman's actions / attitude, I would say that Q is about as far away from that person as possible. Do your homework!
THE HUMANITY. What a disgusting act
JFC he pins a guy in the national semifinals and doesn't even SMILE for a full minute.
JFC he pins a guy in the national semifinals and doesn't even SMILE for a full minute.
To throw in my two cents, I read the original posts when they came out, and to me, they were pretty obviously put out there to incite and insinuate. From all the replies since on both boards, 99% of people understood things that way. Could it have been unintentional? Possible, but after reading these accusations over and over for a long time, it is hard to think it wasn't intentional to denigrate, and not just throw out info.
What Jefe and others are talking about is why say things with no proof? As he pointed out, it would have been simple to check most of what was proven wrong. Gossip is one of my least favorite things, which is why I typically ignore things like this and why I put on ignore those who gossip and slander. I have no time for that and no interest. I enjoy listening to most on here and on HR who are very knowledgeable (know much more than I do).....but I want to listen to your wrestling knowledge and experiences, not gossip or politics, etc, no offense to your political views....unless they differ from mine. Oh wait...
My post wasn't meant to be about academia, it was about college athletics. It's just impossible to watch any contest and assume it's on a equal "playing field" from institution to institution. As a fan of a team you must just accept that the product you are watching is affected by many tangibles. When Texas was dominating in football, read what the booster program was doing. Maybe instead of the word judgemental I should have used objective.
About Cael being short with the "journalists" question. You're being silly reading into the lack of a long, thought out answer as something other than the norm. Every coach, in every sport, will never elaborate when being asked a question that has to do with strict NCAA rules. For example, ask any coach, in any sport, about certain recruits. You will get a pre-formed, standard response. "I cant talk about individual recruits." It's how it works. He didnt clam up, he gave a standard response. Again... its how it works. You made it sound like he was asked "how does the slush fund really work?", and he clammed. Uhh, nope. As for GoFundMe pages. Pretty sure most athletes who made world and/or olympic teams set one up. Im also somewhat sure Cassar was a member of the Jr World Team and set up a GFM page, so nothing out of the ordinary there either.
With so many responses and defensive positions that are pretty much, just lame attempts at "what did I do, I was just...", you feel guilty of something. My guess is people from this board called out your credibility, and did so with accuracy and you like others believing you have some insider status.
Anyhow. The jist of your initial post is:
The NCAA is looking at a particular loophole that Penn State is abusing. Technically Penn State has done nothing wrong, but it is close enough to being illegal that Cael is overtly nervous when questioned about it during an interview.
There wasn't anything implicit about your post that remotely provides you backpedaling space. Your post was very explicit. It was also full of crap and patently false.
Whether or not you have any contacts into the NCAA is something I seriously doubt, and if you do know someone they already know you suffer from the "I am important" syndrome and would never tell you much of anything that was significant. Go drink a few more beers with your drinking buddies and self-congratulate each other for whatever.
You guys are ridiculous. Go read my comment about QW. I was talking about Cael coaching different wrestlers differently. I NEVER claimed QW ever did anything bad off the mat. I am glad QW had some admirable sportsmanship. That wasn't the point at all. How you read this much into that comment is beyond me. Literally one sentence where I said QW didn't appear to be quite a choir boy that David Taylor and Matt Brown appeared to be. The topic was about Coaches treating, interacting, and reacting in unique ways for different wrestlers. QW had a certain attitude that he strutted to the mat with. It was different than DT. In my opinion and to other people's opinion he sometimes came off as a "tough guy" prematch. Just as Gilman does at times or Ramos did when he would do his stare down of his opponent. I am sure to you QW was just warming up and praying for world peace, but some people had different opinions. Clark and DT seem to have a lot of similar character traits with how they warm up on the mat and interact in the gym, just from an observational opinion. Some of the most animated I have ever seen Cael while coaching was because of something QW did. Where as it seemed that DT could do something absolutely amazing and Cael would barely move in his chair. I seriously have no idea how you guys think that me saying Cael had different responses and interactions with QW, DT, and MB was a massive insult. QW had swagger and wrestled like he had a chip on his shoulder. He certainly did not appear to be a squeaky clean choir boy. That was an opinion and one that despite you guys citing examples of when he was a good sport I still have. QW had some high flying throws that I am sure all PSU fans thought were always perfectly legal and well intentioned, not everyone shares that opinion. However, I was not attempting to insult QW character as a citizen and certainly wasn't references anything that QW had ever done outside a wrestling venue. You guys are just crazy.
Honestly answer these questions:
In your opinion did Cael react differently when QW, DT, or MB would win or lose a big match?
In your opinion did Cael interact differently with any of these wrestlers when they were warming up and about to step on the mat for a big match?
Did you ever see Cael coach differently from the chair for one of these guys?
In my opinion yes I did see that from Cael in regards to certain wrestlers and I meant that as a complement not an insult. Stop being so sensitive.
Honestly answer these questions:
In your opinion did Cael react differently when QW, DT, or MB would win or lose a big match?
In your opinion did Cael interact differently with any of these wrestlers when they were warming up and about to step on the mat for a big match?
Did you ever see Cael coach differently from the chair for one of these guys?
In my opinion yes I did see that from Cael in regards to certain wrestlers and I meant that as a complement not an insult. Stop being so sensitive.
Please provide some examples of high flying throws executed by Q that were not "perfectly legal". You are a piece of work my man. Why come here and try defending your delusional opinions?
You could spend some time talking about how Tom Brands is following Tom Ryan's lead and having his guys do the old duck walk to save seeding. Where was Brooks last night?
You could spend some time talking about how Tom Brands is following Tom Ryan's lead and having his guys do the old duck walk to save seeding. Where was Brooks last night?
I have only said multiple times including the first ever post that PSU wasn't breaking any current rules. Yet, according to you guys I believe PSU is doing illegal things and I am sure of it.
I said organizations that aren't affiliated with the school who promote their respective sports are allowed in some cases to provide financial or other assistance to athletes to promote the sport. An example would be an organization that is helping to promote a tournament that contracts for buses to be available to give anyone who wants to compete a ride from various different schools to the city where the tournament is being held. This is not a violation. However, it has been discussed that this could potentially be abused, if perhaps quite a few athletes every year are coming from one school. I don't know what to tell you guys, it has been discussed as a potential loophole to be exploited.
As for my thoughts on tuition assistance for employees. I admitted I made a mistake and tried to clarify what I meant. I stated multiple times I didn't know what each school's policy was. I was trying to use the most extreme example (completely free tuition) and was attempting to show that even the most extreme example still would not be a NCAA violation. I said finding out any individual school's policy would not be hard to find, but that wasn't the point, the point was that no matter what the school's policy was, it is allowed by NCAA. It had absolutely nothing to do with PSU. Some of you just want to try and insult me as much as possible.
Apparently, anyone who has a difference of opinion or doesn't worship at the alter of PSU is just inherently wrong. PSU can do no wrong and no one is allowed to even have a different opinion of someone who is affiliated with PSU. Also, heaven forbid you misspeak, you will never be forgiven even if you admit your error.
I said organizations that aren't affiliated with the school who promote their respective sports are allowed in some cases to provide financial or other assistance to athletes to promote the sport. An example would be an organization that is helping to promote a tournament that contracts for buses to be available to give anyone who wants to compete a ride from various different schools to the city where the tournament is being held. This is not a violation. However, it has been discussed that this could potentially be abused, if perhaps quite a few athletes every year are coming from one school. I don't know what to tell you guys, it has been discussed as a potential loophole to be exploited.
As for my thoughts on tuition assistance for employees. I admitted I made a mistake and tried to clarify what I meant. I stated multiple times I didn't know what each school's policy was. I was trying to use the most extreme example (completely free tuition) and was attempting to show that even the most extreme example still would not be a NCAA violation. I said finding out any individual school's policy would not be hard to find, but that wasn't the point, the point was that no matter what the school's policy was, it is allowed by NCAA. It had absolutely nothing to do with PSU. Some of you just want to try and insult me as much as possible.
Apparently, anyone who has a difference of opinion or doesn't worship at the alter of PSU is just inherently wrong. PSU can do no wrong and no one is allowed to even have a different opinion of someone who is affiliated with PSU. Also, heaven forbid you misspeak, you will never be forgiven even if you admit your error.
You are seriously absurd. No matter what I post you will find a little semantic and argue it. It doesn't matter that it isn't about the topic. This is crazy. No one is allowed to have a slightly different opinion of your guys apparently. Lord knows no one at PSU who was viewed as a great person would ever do something that 99% of America things is despicable and still have PSU fans claim he was a saint.
QW had a style that was exciting. He liked to throw. I did not watch him nearly as often as you all did. However, I saw him throw some guys straight to their backs. I am not going to look for video. I don't care enough to hunt for video of QW. Compile a video of all of QW's throws if you want and post it on youtube then I will watch it and tell you which throws look questionable. If you don't think Cael had different coaching styles for different wrestlers that is fine, say that.
Well, considering you can compare things that are similair or compare things that are different. It is certainly not beyond comprehension for most able minded wrestling fans. You can disagree if you like, but if aren't capable of comprehending the camparison than I doubt you will be able to contribute much to a discussion.
Did you read the comment?
The topic was about coaches treating different wrestlers differently. QW stood out as a guy that Cael seemed to have some more expressive reactions to his performances, which is why I used him as an example.
QW was exciting, he wrestled like he had a chip on his shoulder. I am not an expert on QW. In fact this is the most I have ever talked about QW. You guys are the experts on QW. All I can tell you is my opinion that he wrestled with a unique style that had quite a bit of flare to it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't QW wrestling when Cael got out of the chair and slammed the mat?
Your trying to hard.
Plus all the water your bailing out of this sinking ship is landing in your life raft.
Plus all the water your bailing out of this sinking ship is landing in your life raft.
Please. HR bans any sign of a contrary opinion. You can come here and make your case. I am just waiting for any evidence to back up any of your numerous accusations. You learned a very simple lesson over this entire thread, but it won't help you if you don't let it. "Tom Brands make duck sounds when he drives his car" Please provide several youtube videos of Tom driving and I will point out the noises.
The Q accusations really hit me. I met Q once and only once. He wrestled in the USA vs Iowa high school event at the end of his senior year in HS. Grant Gambrall actually beat him fairly soundly that night, but Q hung around and talked to us local yokels and was such an amazing young man on first impression. I actually consider him to be very much like Mark Hall- just an incredible,humbe kid with a great head on his shoulders. He was about the worst example you could have used when looking for someone who acts like Gilman. I can't think of what PSU guy under Cael to use, but neither could you so you threw a name out there and hoped for the best. It didn't work out very well.
Q was very well liked by other fan bases. I have several friends who were rooting for Q against Kilgore even though they hated to root for a PSU guy. It is really cool when rival fan bases get behind a guy despite the school because they can't help but appreciate the young man. Max Askren has an entire arena cheering for him when he won his long awaited title. Jayson Ness had the same. Q had the same even though it was his second title. Cory Clark would have a bunch of very anti Iowa fans who would stand and cheer for him as well. Some wrestlers just have a way of being hard to hate no matter who they wrestle for. Q was that guy. Gilman is not.
Q was very well liked by other fan bases. I have several friends who were rooting for Q against Kilgore even though they hated to root for a PSU guy. It is really cool when rival fan bases get behind a guy despite the school because they can't help but appreciate the young man. Max Askren has an entire arena cheering for him when he won his long awaited title. Jayson Ness had the same. Q had the same even though it was his second title. Cory Clark would have a bunch of very anti Iowa fans who would stand and cheer for him as well. Some wrestlers just have a way of being hard to hate no matter who they wrestle for. Q was that guy. Gilman is not.
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I believe that some of JW133 points were,although vague but valid. I referenced my thoughts in the above response. I do find that many of the regulars on this board do not like any negative comments about PSU. I have rooted for PSU athletics for 45 years, even driving my car to New Orleans to see their first championship, because I couldn't afford to fly. I got attacked on a thread when I described the wrestling team having 3 holes in the lineup come tournament time, which I still believe. Somehow it went from a athletic comment, to me not having respect for the individuals. We're talking about a game or match not quite sure why the need for some posters to take issue and and make it about how nice the kid is .
Well we have learned who's facts, memory and honesty are in question.
I'm hoping that is where it ends and we don't get into a p!ssing contest.
As an Iowa fan, I admire many PSU wrestlers and love watching Zain, Nolf, and Bo. How in the hell could you not? I also know many Iowa fans that feel the same way, good wrestling is good wrestling. I don't know anything about the slush fund talk as I pay no attention to any of that b.s. and don't look for excuses. All I know is that Iowa needs to get better and more offensive to pull in more top tier recruits.
Yes, it was when he pinned Grant Gambrall in the national semifinals. Rare moment for Cael to be so excited, but it was a huge result for the team race. Q provided 9 points there, I believe.
That is how most fans are imo. I love watching Kyle Snyder and feel very fortunate to witness his career, but I would love to see NN somehow beat him. I can even switch gears another notch and use words like "we" and "us" to describe him and his team USA.
I'd be ok with Lee wining a title if it wasn't at the expense of a PSU wrestler and didn't affect the team race. Same goes for Kemerer and some of the other PA guys. Not sure how often those two factors will line up though.
I know this thread has become pretty deep with opinion.I hope you read the below story to lighten up the mood. I think it it's only normal for a coach to have a couple of athletes on his team that he pulls for more than others. After running the youth basketball program in our area for a few years, 24 travel teams, normal roster size of ten and all the parents had my phone number. I stepped down to follow my daughter's in high school. A few years later I was called by the new director to beg me to coach 9 fifth grade boys who had never played before. I said I would coach . One of players had a severe case of Terets , he would bark like a dog at practice when his teammates would harass him. He was a real nice boy in a tough situation. Needless to say the team struggled, you can teach kids to play hard and good defense , but they just didn't have the offensive skill set. We're playing our last game of year getting thumped.The boy is on the court scratching his arms until there beet red. Referee says to me , Is number 10 OK, I descreatly say ," at least he's not barking" and then tell the ref of his condition. The ref proceeds to call a bogus foul so the boy could shoot foul shots. Now the boy is on the line scratching his torso, he air balls the first shot , I yell to him " just like practice", he drains the second shot. The boy starts running with his arms up like we won the championship. If it was a wrestling match I would have slapped the mat.
