I am still a proud Penn Stater.

[BobPSU92]

Curley and Schultz plead guilty. We don't yet know the details, but as has been discussed, pleading guilty does not mean you are actually guilty. We know that Curley and Schultz were facing a trial in less than a week with a tainted jury pool and a corrupt state legal system. They had to weigh the truth as they were prepared to tell it against those other factors. Pleading guilty mitigates risk, especially if an agreement was reached with no jail time or pension loss.

We likely will learn more next week, and possibly even this week, but I remain a proud Penn Stater. Regardless of what else we learn, I think it is clear that the narrative that has been created regarding a cover-up to protect Joe Paterno's reputation, the football program, and the university is false. Success With Honor never left and is firmly in place today. Stay proud.

I am wearing a Penn State shirt and jacket this morning. And yes, I even have a white Penn State hat with me. I don't care what the meatheads here or anywhere else think. Penn State is about Success With Honor. We are still the good guys. Corruption lives elsewhere. Corruption affects Penn State, but it doesn't become Penn State. There have always been and still are too many good people at Penn State doing too many good things for me to give up on my alma mater.

WE ARE!

 

[Zenophile]

Curley and Schultz plead guilty. We don't yet know the details, but as has been discussed, pleading guilty does not mean you are actually guilty. We know that Curley and Schultz were facing a trial in less than a week with a tainted jury pool and a corrupt state legal system. They had to weigh the truth as they were prepared to tell it against those other factors. Pleading guilty mitigates risk, especially if an agreement was reached with no jail time or pension loss.

We likely will learn more next week, and possibly even this week, but I remain a proud Penn Stater. Regardless of what else we learn, I think it is clear that the narrative that has been created regarding a cover-up to protect Joe Paterno's reputation, the football program, and the university is false. Success With Honor never left and is firmly in place today. Stay proud.

I am wearing a Penn State shirt and jacket this morning. And yes, I even have a white Penn State hat with me. I don't care what the meatheads here or anywhere else think. Penn State is about Success With Honor. We are still the good guys. Corruption lives elsewhere. Corruption affects Penn State, but it doesn't become Penn State. There have always been and still are too many good people at Penn State doing too many good things for me to give up on my alma mater.

WE ARE!

PENN STATE!

 

[psuaxe70]

I had a good friend and a respected teacher who was accused by a very troubled young lady. The police admitted that the evidence was shaky at best but he had to go to court. His wife had been fighting cancer for years and he was afraid that if the trial didn't go well, he might not be able to provide insurance for her and she would die. So he pleaded guilty to Endangering the Welfare of a child, the lightest possible offense. He paid a small fine and had no jail time. He lost his teaching job, of course, and his wife died two years later. The girl had accused him years after the alleged incident but only one month after his son broke up with her and she suddenly had "recovered memory". Sometimes, they plead guilty just to end it. I no longer believe that all people who plead guilty are actually guilty. The remarkable thing to me is that he managed to find a good life after all this happened and didn't seem bitter about it at all.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Amen.

It's amazing to see all the "this is the end we will never be the same " dolts postings.

 

[AvgUser]

I am still a proud Penn Stater, too.

Penn State is the friendships, the education, the camaraderie and the collective pride most of us have for one another and for what we gained during our time in school. Penn State is Success with Honor. Penn State is the feeling that is inside many of us. We get it when we see one another. Yes, it looks like arrogance to some. But, its that "family feeling" that lives within us that we share with fellow alums and fans.

I am still proud of Penn State despite learning over the past five-plus years that the leadership (read: BOT) is a complete and utter cluster-f***.

 

[bdgan]

Curley and Schultz plead guilty. We don't yet know the details, but as has been discussed, pleading guilty does not mean you are actually guilty. We know that Curley and Schultz were facing a trial in less than a week with a tainted jury pool and a corrupt state legal system. They had to weigh the truth as they were prepared to tell it against those other factors. Pleading guilty mitigates risk, especially if an agreement was reached with no jail time or pension loss.

We likely will learn more next week, and possibly even this week, but I remain a proud Penn Stater. Regardless of what else we learn, I think it is clear that the narrative that has been created regarding a cover-up to protect Joe Paterno's reputation, the football program, and the university is false. Success With Honor never left and is firmly in place today. Stay proud.

I am wearing a Penn State shirt and jacket this morning. And yes, I even have a white Penn State hat with me. I don't care what the meatheads here or anywhere else think. Penn State is about Success With Honor. We are still the good guys. Corruption lives elsewhere. Corruption affects Penn State, but it doesn't become Penn State. There have always been and still are too many good people at Penn State doing too many good things for me to give up on my alma mater.

WE ARE!

I wouldn't be surprised if PSU officials tried to address the JS situation quietly. After all, who would want to air their dirty laundry in public?

But the narrative that PSU officials knowingly allowed JS to abuse kids for decades (since 98 or earlier) makes zero sense. If they knew they had a serious problem they would have rid themselves of the problem by making sure that JS never stepped foot on PSU's campus again. That would have been the best way to protect the reputation of the football program and the university.

 

[Evan Ceg]

The fun I had at Penn State, the relationships I made, the rigor of the courses I took and the quality of instruction I received at Penn State had almost zero to do with Gary Schultz, Tim Curley or Graham Spanier. Their failure to act with appropriate alam and action vis a vis Sandusky is certainly disappointing, but I'm not going to paint myself or 98,000 students, faculty and instructors and more than 700,000 alumni with any residue of culpability that belongs to a select few individuals. Penn State Forever!!

 

[canuckhal]

Many of us just wanted to know what happened and cut through the BS. While the complete story remains untold, if you were Penn State proud after the JS story broke and the Freeh press conference, I don't know why recent events would change that. Penn State represents some of the best years of my life and nothing is going to change that.

 

[Nitt1300]

Penn State, like all of our institutions, is not without flaws.
Sadly, it's biggest flaw is in it's governance.

But there have been a lot of good people trying to make a positive impact, too.

 

[fairgambit]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what it has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

 

[Evan Ceg]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what is has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

Sorry the place has lost its magic for you. If you talk to the students today and hear the affection the great majority hold for the place, if you visit the classrooms, the Library, if you look at the great research and teaching that's happening every day, it's still a magical place. The BoT didn't make it great years ago and they don't make it great today. It's the faculty, its the front line workers, its the third level staffers that make it great. I think the top-level leadership is better than you think it is, but those folks weren't the ones who defined Penn State for me then nor define it for me now.

 

[21Guns]

I had a good friend and a respected teacher who was accused by a very troubled young lady. The police admitted that the evidence was shaky at best but he had to go to court. His wife had been fighting cancer for years and he was afraid that if the trial didn't go well, he might not be able to provide insurance for her and she would die. So he pleaded guilty to Endangering the Welfare of a child, the lightest possible offense. He paid a small fine and had no jail time. He lost his teaching job, of course, and his wife died two years later. The girl had accused him years after the alleged incident but only one month after his son broke up with her and she suddenly had "recovered memory". Sometimes, they plead guilty just to end it. I no longer believe that all people who plead guilty are actually guilty. The remarkable thing to me is that he managed to find a good life after all this happened and didn't seem bitter about it at all.

One of the best posts I've ever seen on this board. I hope your friend is doing well, and thank you for sharing amigo.

 

[21Guns]

Curley and Schultz plead guilty. We don't yet know the details, but as has been discussed, pleading guilty does not mean you are actually guilty. We know that Curley and Schultz were facing a trial in less than a week with a tainted jury pool and a corrupt state legal system. They had to weigh the truth as they were prepared to tell it against those other factors. Pleading guilty mitigates risk, especially if an agreement was reached with no jail time or pension loss.

We likely will learn more next week, and possibly even this week, but I remain a proud Penn Stater. Regardless of what else we learn, I think it is clear that the narrative that has been created regarding a cover-up to protect Joe Paterno's reputation, the football program, and the university is false. Success With Honor never left and is firmly in place today. Stay proud.

I am wearing a Penn State shirt and jacket this morning. And yes, I even have a white Penn State hat with me. I don't care what the meatheads here or anywhere else think. Penn State is about Success With Honor. We are still the good guys. Corruption lives elsewhere. Corruption affects Penn State, but it doesn't become Penn State. There have always been and still are too many good people at Penn State doing too many good things for me to give up on my alma mater.

WE ARE!

Excellent post. Well done Bob.

 

[Nitt1300]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what is has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

I'm not quite to that point yet- but I completely understand why you are

 

[Obliviax]

Curley and Schultz plead guilty. We don't yet know the details, but as has been discussed, pleading guilty does not mean you are actually guilty. We know that Curley and Schultz were facing a trial in less than a week with a tainted jury pool and a corrupt state legal system. They had to weigh the truth as they were prepared to tell it against those other factors. Pleading guilty mitigates risk, especially if an agreement was reached with no jail time or pension loss.

We likely will learn more next week, and possibly even this week, but I remain a proud Penn Stater. Regardless of what else we learn, I think it is clear that the narrative that has been created regarding a cover-up to protect Joe Paterno's reputation, the football program, and the university is false. Success With Honor never left and is firmly in place today. Stay proud.

I am wearing a Penn State shirt and jacket this morning. And yes, I even have a white Penn State hat with me. I don't care what the meatheads here or anywhere else think. Penn State is about Success With Honor. We are still the good guys. Corruption lives elsewhere. Corruption affects Penn State, but it doesn't become Penn State. There have always been and still are too many good people at Penn State doing too many good things for me to give up on my alma mater.

WE ARE!

Me too....but am wondering why.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what is has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

fairgambit,

Though I don't agree with anything in your post, I certainly understand where you're coming from and respect your convictions immensely.

On a personal level, where I get bogged down with people who "aren't proud" are those that would rather put on their tinfoil hat than walk away like you did. The tinfoil hat crowd will still donate, still attend sporting events, still send children there, etc. while blaming anyone other than themselves for perpetuating the "new Penn State way". In other words, if you're going to continue to donate, attend, etc.....it's time to shut your mouth because all you do is perpetuate the very things you claim you're against.

You, and some I've encountered in my personal life, have stuck to your convictions and have more or less walked away in all facets--and that's why I respect it even though I disagree.

 

[fairgambit]

Sorry the place has lost its magic for you. If you talk to the students today and hear the affection the great majority hold for the place, if you visit the classrooms, the Library, if you look at the great research and teaching that's happening every day, it's still a magical place. The BoT didn't make it great years ago and they don't make it great today. It's the faculty, its the front line workers, its the third level staffers that make it great. I think the top-level leadership is better than you think it is, but those folks weren't the ones who defined Penn State for me then nor define it for me now.

I can understand that, but I harken back to my point about the callowness of youth. I would expect them to love the place. That is true of students at Ohio State, Southern Cal, Florida State, or Pitt. It is also true that nearly all other schools have great things going on...research, student charities, academic excellence, great teams in one sport or another. We have had a collective arrogance about us that led us to believe we were better than other schools, but an objective observer would say we are pretty much the same. What sets us apart is an arrogant, incompetent Board of Trustees and a scandal that, thanks to them, will always be tied to Penn State and Joe Paterno.

 

[fairgambit]

fairgambit,

Though I don't agree with anything in your post, I certainly understand where you're coming from and respect your convictions immensely.
On a personal level, where I get bogged down with people who "aren't proud" are those that would rather put on their tinfoil hat than walk away like you did. The tinfoil hat crowd will still donate, still attend sporting events, still send children there, etc. while blaming anyone other than themselves for perpetuating the "new Penn State way". In other words, if you're going to continue to donate, attend, etc.....it's time to shut your mouth because all you do is perpetuate the very things you claim you're against.
You, and some I've encountered in my personal life, have stuck to your convictions and have more or less walked away in all facets--and that's why I respect it even though I disagree.

I appreciate your comments and the fact that we can disagree without rancor. I wish I felt otherwise, because I have been a loyal son of Penn State for a very long time. I might feel otherwise if I thought there was some realistic hope to change what I see is Penn State's most obvious failing...its leadership. That may happen over time, but for now, the Old Guard is entrenched and I am incapable of looking at Penn State without seeing who they are and what they have done. Still, as I walk away, I will not close the door. Perhaps I will someday return to the fold. Time has a way of healing things, but I am no longer a young man. We shall see.

 

[nits74]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what is has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

Beautifully written. Many of those who will disagree may not have the historical perspective that you and I have. And those who do, but still disagree, I respect your opinion and feelings. Everything in life changes, but not always for the better.

 

[BobPSU92]

I'm not quite to that point yet- but I completely understand why you are

fair got there a long time ago.

 

[nits74]

fair got there a long time ago.

Bob, you seem to be a good guy, but you need to once in awhile be respectful of others' opinions rather than constantly ridiculing those with whom you disagree. Not everyone is a "my country right or wrong" type as you appear to be.

 

[fairgambit]

Beautifully written. Many of those who will disagree may not have the historical perspective that you and I have. And those who do, but still disagree, I respect your opinion and feelings. Everything in life changes, but not always for the better.

Thank you. I know we share a common bond in our feelings about Penn State. I agree that everything in life changes. Perhaps Penn State will change, yet again, and we will both be comfortable in returning home. Let us hope.

 

[bjf1991]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what it has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

Bing F-ing O!!!!!!

What you write is indisputable...... the only question is whether or not PSU can ever be rescued / rehabilitated.

Things haven't looked good - and the outlook has gotten even worse over the last several years........but one can either try to catalyze that recovery, wait and hope for such a rescue, or give up hope and "Move On".
All of those choices are reasonable choIces - - - and we each have to follow our own conscience.

 

[BobPSU92]

Bob, you seem to be a good guy, but you need to once in awhile be respectful of others' opinions rather than constantly ridiculing those with whom you disagree. Not everyone is a "my country right or wrong" type as you appear to be.

Or you can just screw yourself.

Kidding.

Like it or not, fair has been down in the dumps on Penn State, and not at all afraid to say so, for a long time. It's a statement of fact. I have nothing against him, as he is a smart individual who contributes a lot of good information here. However, on what is supposed to be a pro-Penn State message board, I tire of the negativity coming from anyone. We all have a degree of anger given what has transpired over the past 5+ years, but I am tired of the "I've given up on Penn State. It will never mean the same to me. All is lost" diatribe.

 

[nits74]

Or you can just screw yourself.

Kidding.

Like it or not, fair has been down in the dumps on Penn State, and not at all afraid to say so, for a long time. It's a statement of fact. I have nothing against him, as he is a smart individual who contributes a lot of good information here. However, on what is supposed to be a pro-Penn State message board, I tire of the negativity coming from anyone. We all have a degree of anger given what has transpired over the past 5+ years, but I am tired of the "I've given up on Penn State. It will never mean the same to me. All is lost" diatribe.

Fair enough, Bob (no pun intended). And as you know, I've had my share of negativity. Point is the place has changed and in the opinion of some, not for the better. Anyway, nothing wrong with being positive; and keep up your lighthearted humor. I've come to enjoy that.

 

[AWS1022]

fairgambit,

Though I don't agree with anything in your post, I certainly understand where you're coming from and respect your convictions immensely.

On a personal level, where I get bogged down with people who "aren't proud" are those that would rather put on their tinfoil hat than walk away like you did. The tinfoil hat crowd will still donate, still attend sporting events, still send children there, etc. while blaming anyone other than themselves for perpetuating the "new Penn State way". In other words, if you're going to continue to donate, attend, etc.....it's time to shut your mouth because all you do is perpetuate the very things you claim you're against.

You, and some I've encountered in my personal life, have stuck to your convictions and have more or less walked away in all facets--and that's why I respect it even though I disagree.

Not attending sporting events or not sending your kid there because you're mad at the school is kind of like not giving money to the school lunch program because you don't like the way the elementary school is run. It kind of hurts the wrong people more.

 

[AWS1022]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what it has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

Twenty and thirty years from now today's students will look back just as fondly on their days at college and how special the school was as you do.

 

[AWS1022]

Fair enough, Bob (no pun intended). And as you know, I've had my share of negativity. Point is the place has changed and in the opinion of some, not for the better. Anyway, nothing wrong with being positive; and keep up your lighthearted humor. I've come to enjoy that.

Has it really changed or did the sordid side of things just get a light shined on it? I have to imagine the BOT was pretty slimy back in all of our days but nothing brought it to light. I think many universities have some shady stuff going on but the students are blissfully unaware, much as we were back in the "good old days".

 

[getmyjive11]

Bing F-ing O!!!!!!

What you write is indisputable...... the only question is whether or not PSU can ever be rescued / rehabilitated.

Things haven't looked good - and the outlook has gotten even worse over the last several years........but one can either try to catalyze that recovery, wait and hope for such a rescue, or give up hope and "Move On".
All of those choices are reasonable choIces - - - and we each have to follow our own conscience.

I dispute it.

 

[BobPSU92]

Has it really changed or did the sordid side of things just get a light shined on it? I have to imagine the BOT was pretty slimy back in all of our days but nothing brought it to light. I think many universities have some shady stuff going on but the students are blissfully unaware, much as we were back in the "good old days".

College students generally don't pay attention to what their school's board of trustees is doing unless it gets caught up in a controversy. Even then, students are busy with classes, activities, partying, dating, sports, their college experience. They don't dwell on the board of trustees. I have no problem with that. They are focusing on the right things.

I come back to what I said before. There are a lot of good things going on at Penn State, and thus many reasons for Penn Staters to be proud of their alma mater. Penn State has taken a big hit in the public eye. There is no question about that. However, while we should be disgusted by the old-guard trustees' actions and inactions, we should not allow them or the media to define what Penn State means to us.

One way we can combat the false narrative is to show the world that we are Penn State Proud. If someone attacks you for being a Penn Stater (face to face, not talking about message board trolls), take the opportunity to educate them. I've done it many times since 2011, and I've found that most people appreciated hearing a different perspective. In fact, some people have told me that what I said made sense, in part because the news stories didn't align with what they knew about Joe.

Stay the course. Penn State is still a special place.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Not attending sporting events or not sending your kid there because you're mad at the school is kind of like not giving money to the school lunch program because you don't like the way the elementary school is run. It kind of hurts the wrong people more.

No, it doesn't. If it isn't abundantly clear by now, the only thing PSU leaders care about is money. As long as they keep getting it, nothing will change. Ever.

So, keep donating, keep going, keep attending all while buying more tinfoil & listening to wannabe lawyers/cybersleuths....or shut up. You're doing no good and affecting nothing.

 

[psu1969a]

Curley and Schultz plead guilty. We don't yet know the details, but as has been discussed, pleading guilty does not mean you are actually guilty. We know that Curley and Schultz were facing a trial in less than a week with a tainted jury pool and a corrupt state legal system. They had to weigh the truth as they were prepared to tell it against those other factors. Pleading guilty mitigates risk, especially if an agreement was reached with no jail time or pension loss.

We likely will learn more next week, and possibly even this week, but I remain a proud Penn Stater. Regardless of what else we learn, I think it is clear that the narrative that has been created regarding a cover-up to protect Joe Paterno's reputation, the football program, and the university is false. Success With Honor never left and is firmly in place today. Stay proud.

I am wearing a Penn State shirt and jacket this morning. And yes, I even have a white Penn State hat with me. I don't care what the meatheads here or anywhere else think. Penn State is about Success With Honor. We are still the good guys. Corruption lives elsewhere. Corruption affects Penn State, but it doesn't become Penn State. There have always been and still are too many good people at Penn State doing too many good things for me to give up on my alma mater.

WE ARE!

As well you should be, PSU did nothing wrong. Some administrators obviously made some inadvisable decisions, but they did not do anything intentionally criminal. Now the OGBOT, aka the Gang of 11/09/11, and their handpicked successors have been screwing-up things royally.

 

[nits74]

Has it really changed or did the sordid side of things just get a light shined on it? I have to imagine the BOT was pretty slimy back in all of our days but nothing brought it to light. I think many universities have some shady stuff going on but the students are blissfully unaware, much as we were back in the "good old days".

I hear you. I think some of us miss the relative quaintness of State College and the University. And ironically, much of what it has become is directly, or at least indirectly, attributable to Joe. He always talked of raising the profile of Penn State, and if that would be through the football program then fine. He was a visionary and move forward sort of guy. Now, if what we have become is what he envisioned or even hoped for, I don't know. Ideally, I think he would rather have seen us fall somewhere in between. As they say, sometimes you can create a monster and it gobbles you up. In any case it's hard, and probably not advisable, to swim against societal tidal waves. And as result, for better or worse, this is where we are.

 

[fairgambit]

Or you can just screw yourself.

Kidding.

Like it or not, fair has been down in the dumps on Penn State, and not at all afraid to say so, for a long time. It's a statement of fact. I have nothing against him, as he is a smart individual who contributes a lot of good information here. However, on what is supposed to be a pro-Penn State message board, I tire of the negativity coming from anyone. We all have a degree of anger given what has transpired over the past 5+ years, but I am tired of the "I've given up on Penn State. It will never mean the same to me. All is lost" diatribe.

Sorry Bob. I missed the caveat that said this was supposed to be a "pro-Penn State messsge board" and so I checked my pom poms at the door. I thought this was an open board where all responsible opinions were welcomed. To the extent that I have been negative, and I certainly have, it is based upon what I see are the failings of our leadership. Before I started my "negativity" as you call it, I gave 40 years of my time and treasure to Penn State. During that time I don't believe I ever said more than a sentence or two that would be considered as negative in any way. That was a failing on my part. Responsible criticism tends to make a place better. If you tire of my negativity the answer is simple. You can put me on ignore or simply not read my posts. As I've said, for a number of reasons I wlll be spending less time here so your decision will be an easy one. You are a good guy Bob, but there are a lot of good guys here and not all of them look at the world through blue and white glasses.

 

[PSUPride1]

"I am still a proud Penn Stater."

And I am not. I am proud of what Penn State was. I am not proud of what it has become.
At one time Penn State was a hidden gem of a university with an independent core and a public ivy edge. It was a place where grass, and flowers, and trees held back the intrusions of concrete and steel. A place where tradition was valued and honor was more than just a phrase. A place where the leadership acted in the best interests of the university and not in their own. A place where a man like Joe Paterno would be revered for what he was, not what our Board of Trustees made him out to be. Today Penn State is just another BigTen behemoth, like Ohio State, or Wisconsin, with concrete castles built with only the bottom line considered. It is a place where tradition and honor take a back seat to money and greed. I treasure the Penn State I knew, but that place no longer exists. Maybe it never did, except in the warm memories of days when, in the callowness of my youth, everything about the place seemed to be magical. I know mine is not a popular position, but it is how I feel, not just in light of yesterday's events, but with due consideration for what Penn State has turned into over the past 20 years. Some will say it is a much better place. I think it has lost its soul.

I feel your pain. I've been around the block too and perhaps you too are from the age of innocence. Remember those days when we thought everything was as pure as the new fallen snow.
Well we were wrong on most fronts. Politics and politicians were corrupt. The church had its issues. College sports were a cesspool. Basically I refer to the 50s now as the age of ignorance.
I think we make too much of what Success with Honor meant and applied to. Joe knew college football was a mess and so success with honor was his way of saying not us. We'll win at football without cheating and we'll actually graduate our players. That's it. He just wanted to run a clean program. He never wanted to be God or have his branding applied to all things.
Bad things happen in all areas of life. Are you going to refrain from voting because God knows politics are corrupt. How about your faith. Are you going to turn your back on God and church because some priests were bad. What about sports in general.
If we made Penn state into this holy land with all Saints then that's our problem.
Penn State's a great school. Penn State had a tremendous football program. For the most part we all had a great time going to Penn State and learned a lot. We've also had more fun than the law should allow following Penn State football and that includes you.
And of course these schools are about money. They all are and and we had a pretty good ride for a long time paying blue light special prices. That had to change and it did.
That said Penn State, like all places, also has had some bad dudes. Why let those people warp your view of the entire school. You're better than that.
When we generalize our disgust for the bot to Penn state as a whole we're playing the same game the scumbags engage in when they criminalize all of us.
Anyway, that's just my view of things.

 

[fairgambit]

Twenty and thirty years from now today's students will look back just as fondly on their days at college and how special the school was as you do.

I hope they do. I also hope that the leadership then in place is befitting of a great university so that they can avoid the decision I have made.

 

[AWS1022]

No, it doesn't. If it isn't abundantly clear by now, the only thing PSU leaders care about is money. As long as they keep getting it, nothing will change. Ever.

So, keep donating, keep going, keep attending all while buying more tinfoil & listening to wannabe lawyers/cybersleuths....or shut up. You're doing no good and affecting nothing.

They've got money and will have it whether PSU has money donated or not. Stopping donations and not going to events is not going to change the make up of the BOT.

 

[fairgambit]

I feel your pain. I'very been around the block too and perhaps you too are from the age of innocence. Remember those days when we thought everything was as pure as the new fallen snow.
Well we were wrong on most fronts. Politics and politicians were corrupt. The church had its issues. College sports were a cesspool. Basically I refer to the 50s now as the age of ignorance.
I think we make too much of what Success with Honor meant and applied to. Joe knew college football was a mess and so success with honor was his way of saying not us. We'll win at football without cheating and we'll actually graduate our players. That's it. He just wanted to run a clean program. He never wanted to be God or have his branding applied to all things.
Bad things happen in all areas of life. Are you going to refrain from voting because God knows politics is corrupt. How about your faith. Are you going to turn your back on God and church because some priests were bad. What about sports in general.
If we made Penn state into this holy land with all Saints then that's our problem.
Penn State's a great school. Penn State had a tremendous football program. For the most part we all had a great time going to Penn State and learned a lot. We've also had more fun than the law should allow following Penn State football and that includes you.
And of course these schools are about money. They all are and and we had a pretty good ride for a long time paying blue light special prices. That had to change and it did.
That said Penn State, like all places, also has had some bad dudes. Why let those people warp your view of the entire school. You're better than that.
When we generalize our disgust for the bot to Penn state as a whole we're playing the same game the scumbags engage in when they criminalize all of us.
Anyway, that's just my view of things.

Fair enough. You have made a number of points. Let me just respond to one. Yes, other schools have had "bad dudes", but ours are largely still there, entrenched, and running the place. Despite all efforts, there is not a damn thing we can do about it. I am in the autumn of my life and winter is not far off. I have neither the time, nor the patience, to deal with these scoundrels or wait them out. I will move on and enjoy the time I have left.

 

[PSUPride1]

Fair enough. You have made a number of points. Let me just respond to one. Yes, other schools have had "bad dudes", but ours are largely still there, entrenched, and running the place. Despite all efforts, there is not a damn thing we can do about it. I am in the autumn of my life and winter is not far off. I have neither the time, nor the patience, to deal with these scoundrels or wait them out. I will move on and enjoy the time I have left.

Fair you couldn't move on if you tried. Yes, you don't go to games anymore and perhaps you won't come back to campus any time soon but you still follow Penn state football and Penn state in general. It's a part of you. As you said there's no way to put 40 years of memories in a shoebox and forget about them. You're stuck with us my friend.
Hell you're one of the guys on this board that remembers games from three and four decades ago.
Remember Nebreska under the lights in 82. Perhaps the best game ever played at Beaver Stadium.
And I disagree. Most of those turds from 2011 are gone but I get your point. I think Joe would really like Sandy and James too.

 

[fairgambit]

Fair you couldn't move on if you tried. Yes, you don't go to games anymore and perhaps you won't come back to campus any time soon but you still follow Penn state football and Penn state in general. It's a part of you. As you said there's no way to put 40 years of memories in a shoebox and forget about them. You're stuck with us my friend.
Hell you're one of the guys on this board that remembers games from three and four decades ago.
Remember Nebreska under the lights in 82. Perhaps the best game ever played at Beaver Stadium.
And I disagree. Most of those turds from 2011 are gone but I get your point. I think Joe would really like Sandy and James too.

Ah yes...Nebraska 82....you may be right about moving on. I have tried before and failed. What I think will make the difference this time are those unfulfilled dreams I keep talking about. They haunt me in ways I never expected. Not to be dramatic, but were I to die today I would have left a lot of chips on the table. I am determined not to let that happen.