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Seems like a lot of overreaction here. Any objective analysis of the Phils for this season indicated they would be awful. There's not a lot they can do to change that.
Howard hits an occasional HR, but his days of carrying a team seem to be a distant memory. Utley has had a slow start, but is the least of their problems. Gavis is a good defender, and has done better than expected with the bat this season, but his offense is still too inconsistent. Asche is OK, but doesnt' have the offense to occupy a corner infield position.
The outfield is still a work in progress. Herrera has been a pleasant surprise in CF, but is still learning the position. His offense was missing the first week or two, but he's done very well with the bat since then. Revere has done better than expected in left, defensively, but still doesn't have enough pop in his bat, or enough discipline at the plate. Francoeur and Sizemore are glorified backups. Ruiz still is an excellent defensive catcher, but his offensive inconsistencies are a bigger issue with the current lineup than they use to be when they were at/near the top of the heap.
The pitching staff was expected to be a disaster, and has not disappointed (so to speak).
The minors actually have a number of good things going on in them. Franco is their prospect that is closest to the majors. He disappointed in spring training, but has done very well so far in AAA. At AA, they have a staff of starting pitchers that are their best pitching prospects. Their shortstop to be is their #1 prospect, and I believe he's been doing well at AA.
Things are likely to be exceptionally bad for a few years, and prospects don't always pan out. They'd have to get lucky, or get overwhelmed by offers for Hamels enabling them to rapidly improve, to be able to compete with the top teams in the NL in the near future.
From reading this thread, I guess any hopes of the Bucs and Phils playing for the National League title are pretty slim.Can they be this god awful with the "future" even more bleak? Is it at all possible? They have the "...." to ask ANYONE to buy a ticket !!!
It seems the future of baseball isn't a big spending spree, it is more about building up with young under control players and supplement in some free agents here and there. The Cards and Pirates have this down, the Mets learned the hard way, the Phils are now learning the same.
I thought the season was over already. Do you mean there is more to come?Can they be this god awful with the "future" even more bleak? Is it at all possible? They have the "...." to ask ANYONE to buy a ticket !!!
I'd have to think that is true. I read "Prophet of the Sandlots" about Tony Lucadello, the late, great Phillies scout. Looked up the players discussed in the book. Those numbers seemed to be accurate. And he was one of the best--over 50 Major leaguers signed including Mike Schmidt and Mick-ey Mor-an-din-i. BTW--look that book up if you are a Phils fan--or even just a baseball fan. Very insightful.As far as the minor leagues (that is the descriptive name for a reason). I recall reading an article written by two major league scouts that stated 95% of players in single A and double A NEVER make it to the majors.
I cant't find the article, and I am not that knowledgable to verify if those numbers are correct. BUT I do see why Amaro is holding out for AAA level players for Hamels. AND I also see why there is reluctance to part with same from other teams.
If the Phillies had used the Eagles (through most of Reed's tenure) as a model they would have moved aging veterans before they were worthless. That being said the "player contracts" in baseball make it somewhat difficult.
I also have to assume the money being made by the owners has little on nothing to do with attendance at games. The BIG $$$$$$ (way out of proportion) is from the Cable TV deals.
Seems like a lot of overreaction here. Any objective analysis of the Phils for this season indicated they would be awful. There's not a lot they can do to change that.
Howard hits an occasional HR, but his days of carrying a team seem to be a distant memory. Utley has had a slow start, but is the least of their problems. Gavis is a good defender, and has done better than expected with the bat this season, but his offense is still too inconsistent. Asche is OK, but doesnt' have the offense to occupy a corner infield position.
The outfield is still a work in progress. Herrera has been a pleasant surprise in CF, but is still learning the position. His offense was missing the first week or two, but he's done very well with the bat since then. Revere has done better than expected in left, defensively, but still doesn't have enough pop in his bat, or enough discipline at the plate. Francoeur and Sizemore are glorified backups. Ruiz still is an excellent defensive catcher, but his offensive inconsistencies are a bigger issue with the current lineup than they use to be when they were at/near the top of the heap.
The pitching staff was expected to be a disaster, and has not disappointed (so to speak).
The minors actually have a number of good things going on in them. Franco is their prospect that is closest to the majors. He disappointed in spring training, but has done very well so far in AAA. At AA, they have a staff of starting pitchers that are their best pitching prospects. Their shortstop to be is their #1 prospect, and I believe he's been doing well at AA.
Things are likely to be exceptionally bad for a few years, and prospects don't always pan out. They'd have to get lucky, or get overwhelmed by offers for Hamels enabling them to rapidly improve, to be able to compete with the top teams in the NL in the near future.
Reading's pitching staff is awesome. I hope they dont bring a single prospect up though until at least 2017. No reason to waste them in the majors, including Franco, Quinn and Crawford.
Can they be this god awful with the "future" even more bleak? Is it at all possible? They have the "...." to ask ANYONE to buy a ticket !!!
This rebuild could take up to 5 years. They should get rid of Amaro before the trade deadline and let the new GM make the trades.
Reading's pitching staff is awesome. I hope they dont bring a single prospect up though until at least 2017. No reason to waste them in the majors, including Franco, Quinn and Crawford.
BMW, I am not that knowledgable about the minor leagues. But, is as you think the Reading pitching staff is "awesome" why do all of the "experts" indicate that the Phillies farm system in among the very worst? Hey, I'm all about them being wrong because if you are right then there is some hope
This rebuild could take up to 5 years.
They should get rid of Amaro before the trade deadline and let the new GM make the trades.
BMW, I am not that knowledgable about the minor leagues. But, is as you think the Reading pitching staff is "awesome" why do all of the "experts" indicate that the Phillies farm system in among the very worst?
It may well take that long. The Nationals are in very good position with their ML lineup, and a good farm system. The Mets have shown a good bit of discipline as they rebuilt, and are showing the results so far this season. They have a number of nice prospects still in the minors. The Braves has always done a nice job with their farm system, so barring injuries they'll pretty much always field a strong team. The Fish have been inconsistent for a number of reasons, but there is talent in their farm system. So even if the Phils made a lot of excellent decisions, their turnaround is not going to be all that quick.
I don't pretend to think that Amaro walks on water, but I think he gets blamed for a lot of things that aren't all that fair. I don't have any issues with the trades he made before the Pence trade with the Astros. Well, perhaps an issue with the trade of Lee to Seattle. Most of those trades were very solid, as they were in a position to win a WS, and you have to take advantage of that situation. The Pence trade was a combination of things. Werth was seeking more money than the Phils could offer, and Washington vastly overpaid him. Problem was that the Phils really didn't have a viable backup. That lead to the Pence trade with Houston, but Pence was not a great fit for the Phils, and the Phils gave up way too much. The mistake was compounded by the trade of Pence to the Giants, where the Phils didn't get enough back in return. The bulk of the issues with the team have been:
- Howard was as good a power hitter as there was, but since his Achilles injury he hasn't been a shell of his former self. The Phils have tried everything possible to trade him, but nobody wants him unless the Phils pay 80-90% of his contract.
- Utley was well on his way to a place in the HOF until he had leg issues. That's another situation that's hard to anticipate. He's a fan favorite, and he recovered nicely from his injury issues last year, but his contract makes it very hard to trade him
- Doc was a tremendous pitcher, and not much of an injury history, and within a season he went from Cy Young quality to retired
- Cliff Lee's elbow issues are comparable to Doc -- hard to lose a guy that is so dominant. With the recurrence of the issues in the Spring, the Phils couldn't even give him away at this point
The team was built around starting pitching, and the offense of JRob, Utley, Howard. Now they have about as bad a starting pitching staff as there is, JRob was traded, and Utley and Howard can't carry a team and their trade value is somewhere between limited to non-existent. The team imploded very quickly, and will take quite some time to rebuild. Gillis is very shrewd. With him in control, I doubt that Amaro will make any trades that are bad for the Phils.
The "going small market" thing was by far the most incorrect thing. They are in the big money for the long haul, hopefully the farm and future drafts make this fun. I really am wondering if they win 60 this year. Poor Ryne Sandberg, actually don't like a lot of his moves but he has no chance. The Cubs system was overflowing with young talent that we are seeing now and the Cubs sucked @ the time but everyone thought he'd get that job. Instead he got this.
PSU, I probably did not "totally" get the "small market" thing correct. The Philles in recent years did spend. BUT they have an organizational cap ,which is higher than many, that they do not want to exceed. I get that. So, I guess until they free up more money in "their" cap by ending contracts we will have to wait. My point was, they, as many bigger market teams, have a great deal more money they "could" spend. But, I do realize it is a business and cutting into profits is always a challenge. Sometimes spending more is not the answer.
BMW, I am not that knowledgable about the minor leagues. But, is as you think the Reading pitching staff is "awesome" why do all of the "experts" indicate that the Phillies farm system in among the very worst? Hey, I'm all about them being wrong because if you are right then there is some hope
I sure hope Reading has good pitching, because they can't hit a lick. Granted it is only one game, but I saw them play Friday night and they had a grand total of four hits (3 singles and a bloop triple) and struck out 14 times. They couldn't hit the change-up from the Portland pitcher and were constantly swinging at pitches in the dirt. It looked like an entire team of Ryan Howard's trying to hit.Reading's pitching staff is awesome. I hope they dont bring a single prospect up though until at least 2017. No reason to waste them in the majors, including Franco, Quinn and Crawford.