I re watched the 10 sacks, I rewatched the game, and I wonder if we are in the worse of both worlds

[sluggo72]

that is we have a drop back QB in Hack (which I have no problem with) , the staff has tried to fit the scheme to fit the players talents, but they are still using spread concepts. I wonder if they put in things a DB QB needs, like hot reads, sight adjustments by the WR's, blocking big on big, dual reads from the backs, pre snap reads etc. or did they just keep the spread ideas, and just run the play call?

 

[ziplock]

Sluggo,
You are spot on here in your observation. Watch Hack's footwork, his hands through transfer and his quick sets in the pocket. Those all indicate that what you're saying is, in fact, the case.
Case-by-case, you could conclude the following from 2013 to present:

Footwork - In 2013, play drops were executed beginning with the pivot and drive through transfer. This is coached using the QB clock (5-6-7) and utilizes straight, counter and boot action through the give. In 2015, you see zone-read pop pivots with quick sets and slide drops. All vertical and all short.

Hands - In 2013, Hack was a one-handed QB in the mold of Tom Brady because that's how you operate in pivot to straight, counter and boot actions. In 2015, Hack is a two-handed QB because that's how you operate in pop pivot zone schemes.

Sets - Hack is no longer operating as a drive and gather QB who stretches his drops and sets up in a variety of locations depending upon action and route. He always sets up through read to quick or slide sets in the interior of the pocket.

The last point I would make is one that was raised in the other thread. That is the presence of tag plays. O'Brien's offense did not have tag plays as such. Tags, as you are aware but for the benefit of others, are a zone-quick concept where you call a running play with a frontside pass tag tacked on the end. Teams that I'm familiar with will most typically do this with the bender series and the double series tagged to quick read and pin certain elements of the defense through indecision.

Based on all of this, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying and see some of the same square peg, round hole stuff that you do. Bottom line, they have to be flexible enough to adapt scheme and meet in the middle.

Take care.
ziplock

 

[JayWye]

that is we have a drop back QB in Hack (which I have no problem with) , the staff has tried to fit the scheme to fit the players talents, but they are still using spread concepts. I wonder if they put in things a DB QB needs, like hot reads, sight adjustments by the WR's, blocking big on big, dual reads from the backs, pre snap reads etc. or did they just keep the spread ideas, and just run the play call?

Let's see how things go with (presumably) Palmer out of there. An OL consisting of Nelson, Dowrey, Mang, Gaia and Mahon is intruiging. Hopefully they use it and it works. If so, and the QB continues to struggle, then McSorley should get some serious reps. JMO.

 

[sluggo72]

Sluggo,
You are spot on here in your observation. Watch Hack's footwork, his hands through transfer and his quick sets in the pocket. Those all indicate that what you're saying is, in fact, the case.
Case-by-case, you could conclude the following from 2013 to present:

Footwork - In 2013, play drops were executed beginning with the pivot and drive through transfer. This is coached using the QB clock (5-6-7) and utilizes straight, counter and boot action through the give. In 2015, you see zone-read pop pivots with quick sets and slide drops. All vertical and all short.

Hands - In 2013, Hack was a one-handed QB in the mold of Tom Brady because that's how you operate in pivot to straight, counter and boot actions. In 2015, Hack is a two-handed QB because that's how you operate in pop pivot zone schemes.

Sets - Hack is no longer operating as a drive and gather QB who stretches his drops and sets up in a variety of locations depending upon action and route. He always sets up through read to quick or slide sets in the interior of the pocket.

The last point I would make is one that was raised in the other thread. That is the presence of tag plays. O'Brien's offense did not have tag plays as such. Tags, as you are aware but for the benefit of others, are a zone-quick concept where you call a running play with a frontside pass tag tacked on the end. Teams that I'm familiar with will most typically do this with the bender series and the double series tagged to quick read and pin certain elements of the defense through indecision.

Based on all of this, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying and see some of the same square peg, round hole stuff that you do. Bottom line, they have to be flexible enough to adapt scheme and meet in the middle.

Take care.
ziplock

Thanks
now really how hard is this?? Just put a foot in the ground and come off the ball. Run this, and then run some play action.

 

[bjf1984]

Let's see how things go with (presumably) Palmer out of there. An OL consisting of Nelson, Dowrey, Mang, Gaia and Mahon is intruiging. Hopefully they use it and it works. If so, and the QB continues to struggle, then McSorley should get some serious reps. JMO.

Who's your center in that lineup?

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

Let's see how things go with (presumably) Palmer out of there. An OL consisting of Nelson, Dowrey, Mang, Gaia and Mahon is intruiging. Hopefully they use it and it works. If so, and the QB continues to struggle, then McSorley should get some serious reps. JMO.

Interior has to shake up too. Mangiro sucks at center but is a serviceable guard. Put Laurent in there and slide Mangiro over. Try Reihner at one of the guard spots. He can't be worse than Gaia/Dowrey.

 

[PSU&Trout]

Thanks
now really how hard is this?? Just put a foot in the ground and come off the ball. Run this, and then run some play action.

View embedded media

Thanks guys, solid helpful stuff (sans any rant) I think I understand better. Hope coached do too(smiley face)

 

[JayWye]

Who's your center in that lineup?

This lineup was seen by the BWI guys at the last practice...IIRC, Mangiro was at center.

 

[bjf1984]

This lineup was seen by the BWI guys at the last practice...IIRC, Mangiro was at center.

Hmmmm....then who was the other OT........Mahon, Gaia, or Dowrey?

Who knows, they might try anything at this point.....who could blame them......but I think it is more likely you got some bad (or at least misleading) info from the BWI guys.

If they are replacing Palmer.......which wouldn't shock me........I WOULD be shocked if it didn't involve Mangiro moving to tackle and Laurent moving in at OC.

 

[slwlion]

Sluggo,
You are spot on here in your observation. Watch Hack's footwork, his hands through transfer and his quick sets in the pocket. Those all indicate that what you're saying is, in fact, the case.
Case-by-case, you could conclude the following from 2013 to present:

Footwork - In 2013, play drops were executed beginning with the pivot and drive through transfer. This is coached using the QB clock (5-6-7) and utilizes straight, counter and boot action through the give. In 2015, you see zone-read pop pivots with quick sets and slide drops. All vertical and all short.

Hands - In 2013, Hack was a one-handed QB in the mold of Tom Brady because that's how you operate in pivot to straight, counter and boot actions. In 2015, Hack is a two-handed QB because that's how you operate in pop pivot zone schemes.

Sets - Hack is no longer operating as a drive and gather QB who stretches his drops and sets up in a variety of locations depending upon action and route. He always sets up through read to quick or slide sets in the interior of the pocket.

The last point I would make is one that was raised in the other thread. That is the presence of tag plays. O'Brien's offense did not have tag plays as such. Tags, as you are aware but for the benefit of others, are a zone-quick concept where you call a running play with a frontside pass tag tacked on the end. Teams that I'm familiar with will most typically do this with the bender series and the double series tagged to quick read and pin certain elements of the defense through indecision.

Based on all of this, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying and see some of the same square peg, round hole stuff that you do. Bottom line, they have to be flexible enough to adapt scheme and meet in the middle.

Take care.
ziplock

Sluggo,
You are spot on here in your observation. Watch Hack's footwork, his hands through transfer and his quick sets in the pocket. Those all indicate that what you're saying is, in fact, the case.
Case-by-case, you could conclude the following from 2013 to present:

Footwork - In 2013, play drops were executed beginning with the pivot and drive through transfer. This is coached using the QB clock (5-6-7) and utilizes straight, counter and boot action through the give. In 2015, you see zone-read pop pivots with quick sets and slide drops. All vertical and all short.

Hands - In 2013, Hack was a one-handed QB in the mold of Tom Brady because that's how you operate in pivot to straight, counter and boot actions. In 2015, Hack is a two-handed QB because that's how you operate in pop pivot zone schemes.

Sets - Hack is no longer operating as a drive and gather QB who stretches his drops and sets up in a variety of locations depending upon action and route. He always sets up through read to quick or slide sets in the interior of the pocket.

The last point I would make is one that was raised in the other thread. That is the presence of tag plays. O'Brien's offense did not have tag plays as such. Tags, as you are aware but for the benefit of others, are a zone-quick concept where you call a running play with a frontside pass tag tacked on the end. Teams that I'm familiar with will most typically do this with the bender series and the double series tagged to quick read and pin certain elements of the defense through indecision.

Based on all of this, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying and see some of the same square peg, round hole stuff that you do. Bottom line, they have to be flexible enough to adapt scheme and meet in the middle.

Take care.
ziplock

Wonderful analysis !

 

[JayWye]

Hmmmm....then who was the other OT........Mahon, Gaia, or Dowrey?

Who knows, they might try anything at this point.....who could blame them......but I think it is more likely you got some bad (or at least misleading) info from the BWI guys.

If they are replacing Palmer.......which wouldn't shock me........I WOULD be shocked if it didn't involve Mangiro moving to tackle and Laurent moving in at OC.

Mahon was at RT...

 

[bjf1984]

Mahon was at RT...

Interesting

Thanks

I do think he was considered a swing guy (OG/OT) when he was being recruited out of HS.

 

[BBrown]

Hmmmm....then who was the other OT........Mahon, Gaia, or Dowrey?

Who knows, they might try anything at this point.....who could blame them......but I think it is more likely you got some bad (or at least misleading) info from the BWI guys.

If they are replacing Palmer.......which wouldn't shock me........I WOULD be shocked if it didn't involve Mangiro moving to tackle and Laurent moving in at OC.

IIRC it was LT-Nelson, LG Dowrey, C-Mangiro, RG-Gaia and RT-Mahon. BUT that was during the time the media was allowed in and I think it was a goal line situation.
For what its worth I think this is the line we see starting on Sat.