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IMO Dave Joyner gets waaaay too much credit here

wensilver

wensilver

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Dec 9, 2012
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The Inquirer's Frank Fitzpatrick gives Joyner too much oxygen, in my opinion. Joyner not only sold out his coach, he also sold out his program and his university.

But overall - not a cringeworthy article and my blood isn't boiling after reading it, although I am not a sports fan so it might make others angry instead. And this is a somewhat positive statement:

"Ironically, the one thing coaches and administrators pointed to most often when discussing reasons for this sports miracle was the foundation created by Joe Paterno, the man some critics still blame for creating a football-first environment in which Sandusky’s crimes were ignored or missed, (<---WRONG) the man whose legacy administrators have sometimes seemed hell-bent on erasing." (my emphasis added)

Read the article here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...tm_medium=social&cid=Inquirer+Twitter+Account

It would be nice, however, if these asshats in the media actually brought up Second Mile leadership and their Best Practice of wearing swim trunks. But that's a rant for another day.

A refresher on Joyner from another BWI poster in his Feckless Series

 
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wensilver said:
The Inquirer's Frank Fitzpatrick gives Joyner too much oxygen, in my opinion. Joyner not only sold out his coach, he also sold out his program and his university.

But overall - not a cringeworthy article and my blood isn't boiling after reading it, although I am not a sports fan so it might make others angry instead. And this is a somewhat positive statement:

"Ironically, the one thing coaches and administrators pointed to most often when discussing reasons for this sports miracle was the foundation created by Joe Paterno, the man some critics still blame for creating a football-first environment in which Sandusky’s crimes were ignored or missed, (<---WRONG) the man whose legacy administrators have sometimes seemed hell-bent on erasing." (my emphasis added)

Read the article here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...tm_medium=social&cid=Inquirer+Twitter+Account

It would be nice, however, if these asshats in the media actually brought up Second Mile leadership and their Best Practice of wearing swim trunks. But that's a rant for another day.

A refresher on Joyner from another BWI poster in his Feckless Series

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yeah, but he got the goldenest of parachutes when he left. there's that :mad:.
 
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It could have been worse, but it still made me puke. Fitzy is just another tool; Inky should’ve done a whole lot more with this story a whole long time ago.
 
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Fester was just along for the ride in the "me first" CYA brigade. He was in no position to hold any power....pretty much a failure in everything else he tried. His buddy threw him a bone with the caveat that he tow the company line. Easy enough for a life-long omega with absolutely no qualifications or leadership abilities to otherwise hold such a prestigious position.
 
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Player2BNamedL8r said:
Fester was just along for the ride in the "me first" CYA brigade. He was in no position to hold any power....pretty much a failure in everything else he tried. His buddy threw him a bone with the caveat that he tow the company line. Easy enough for a life-long omega with absolutely no qualifications or leadership abilities to otherwise hold such a prestigious position.
Click to expand...
Judas was placed as AD at least in part to see that the Freeh Inquisition spread fear in the Athletic Dept.
 
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Lyons212 said:
Won't be popular, but Joyner did an excellent job hiring O'Brien and Franklin, he has to get credit for that...that is about all the credit he gets or positive that can be said.
Click to expand...

Won't be accurate, either, imo.
I believe almost any of us on these boards could have made those same hires at the time and how they fell into place. Joyner was not much more than a signature on a line on the contract.
 
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marshall23 said:
In an organization of despicable human beings (OGBOT) Joyner stands out as a leading misanthrope.
Click to expand...

For me it’s Frazier hands down...he (supposedly) had the legal expertise to realize there was no need to have Freeh torch everything with speculation...especially if they were going to fold on the settlements anyway.

At a minimum there was absolutely no need to bring Joe and football into it...should have kept focus on admins.

Complete and total failure on his part.
 
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wensilver said:
The Inquirer's Frank Fitzpatrick gives Joyner too much oxygen, in my opinion. Joyner not only sold out his coach, he also sold out his program and his university.

But overall - not a cringeworthy article and my blood isn't boiling after reading it, although I am not a sports fan so it might make others angry instead. And this is a somewhat positive statement:

"Ironically, the one thing coaches and administrators pointed to most often when discussing reasons for this sports miracle was the foundation created by Joe Paterno, the man some critics still blame for creating a football-first environment in which Sandusky’s crimes were ignored or missed, (<---WRONG) the man whose legacy administrators have sometimes seemed hell-bent on erasing." (my emphasis added)

Read the article here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...tm_medium=social&cid=Inquirer+Twitter+Account

It would be nice, however, if these asshats in the media actually brought up Second Mile leadership and their Best Practice of wearing swim trunks. But that's a rant for another day.

A refresher on Joyner from another BWI poster in his Feckless Series

View embedded media
Click to expand...

Dave Joyner is a great person and great Penn Stater. He deserves this credit and more.
Ira Lubert also deserves some credit. The football program was a stagnant mess and the Athletic Department was filled with tired old deadwood. Joyner came in and breathed new life into
the football program and AD. He deserves thanks from true PSU fans.
 
Osprey Lion said:
Dave Joyner is a great person and great Penn Stater. He deserves this credit and more.
Ira Lubert also deserves some credit. The football program was a stagnant mess and the Athletic Department was filled with tired old deadwood. Joyner came in and breathed new life into
the football program and AD. He deserves thanks from true PSU fans.
Click to expand...
Your comments are like someone who states that"...starting that forest fire was nothing but GOOD...it allowed replanting of the forest with new seedlings and in 100 years - things will be better. Forget that 100 homes were destroyed and 100 families lost everything..."

Just keep ...telling it like "The Story" wants the public to believe - our OGBOT guys are saviors of the University... REALITY BE DAMNED!
 
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Legion of Lions said:
Your comments are like someone who states that"...starting that forest fire was nothing but GOOD...it allowed replanting of the forest with new seedlings and in 100 years - things will be better. Forget that 100 homes were destroyed and 100 families lost everything..."

Just keep ...telling it like "The Story" wants the public to believe - our OGBOT guys are saviors of the University... REALITY BE DAMNED!
Click to expand...

Joyner didn't start the "forest fire". He cleaned up after it and rebuilt what was destroyed.
You and those of your ilk who want to discredit Doctor Joyner are the ones who need
an introduction to reality. PSU is much better for his contributions.
 
And lined
Osprey Lion said:
Joyner didn't start the "forest fire". He cleaned up after it and rebuilt what was destroyed.
You and those of your ilk who want to discredit Doctor Joyner are the ones who need
an introduction to reality. PSU is much better for his contributions.
Click to expand...
Osprey Lion said:
Joyner didn't start the "forest fire". He cleaned up after it and rebuilt what was destroyed.
You and those of your ilk who want to discredit Doctor Joyner are the ones who need
an introduction to reality. PSU is much better for his contributions.
Click to expand...
And lined his pockets on the way in and the way out thanks to his pals on the BOT. Whose interest did he have as #1?
 
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marshall23 said:
O' Brien was recommended to Ira by his friend Jaws.
Franklin was a no brainer. He badly wanted to come to PSU. Judas is a shit head.
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In fairness, there were a whole lot of people in this fanbase who thought at the time that Al Golden was a better choice than Franklin. While I agree that Franklin was far and away the best candidate, that search easily could have gone in another direction - and, from what we heard at the time, nearly did.

And the O'Brien choice was almost universally disliked by the fanbase. It was not a popular choice in the slightest, and Joyner could have made a more "popular" hire by appointing Bradley to be the permanent head coach. People started to change their minds on OB after his intro press conference, but when he was hired it was far, far from a no brainer - it was a choice out of left field that paid off.

I don't like the guy, but we've seen a whole lot of schools and ADs struggle to make *one* good football hire, much less go two-for-two.
 
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screw off philly.com and screw off Uncle Fester. Period.

1560575_10152172499879283_1843470858_n.jpg
 
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I had no idea that Joyner moved to Ospey Florida as a retirement home. I guess the basement digs got to be old hat
 
AvgUser said:
Exactly what qualifications did Joyner have to be an AD of a high School, let alone a major university?
Click to expand...

The only qualification he needed was common sense. And his hires prove
he had that in spades. I know for you and the others of your ilk, common sense is
something of which you are unaware.
 
AvgUser said:
I had no idea that Joyner moved to Ospey Florida as a retirement home. I guess the basement digs got to be old hat
Click to expand...
He "lights up" any community that is blessed to have him. He should join up w/ the circus folk over in Gibsonton. He's no Lobster Boy, but he's no slouch either.
 
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Osprey Lion said:
The only qualification he needed was common sense. And his hires prove
he had that in spades. I know for you and the others of your ilk, common sense is
something of which you are unaware.
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With all that common sense, didn't he successfully drive his orthopedic practice to the ground? Why did he not use his common sense to save his business?

Also, wasn't he living in his parents basement for a while? That sure seems like a common sense move.
 
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AvgUser said:
With all that common sense, didn't he successfully drive his orthopedic practice to the ground? Why did he not use his common sense to save his business?

Also, wasn't he living in his parents basement for a while? That sure seems like a common sense move.
Click to expand...

I do declare, we seem to have hit a nerve.
 
My bio is quite fine, thank you. I'm proud of the work I do, the contributions I've made and the accomplishments and successes I've achieved. I am no different than Joyner in that regard.


I will state that I have no worse than average common sense. I can't prove that assertion as that is an un-provable statement. However, according to your assertion, that therefore qualifies me to run PSU's Athletic Department. Remarkable.
 
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Raffycorn said:
In fairness, there were a whole lot of people in this fanbase who thought at the time that Al Golden was a better choice than Franklin. While I agree that Franklin was far and away the best candidate, that search easily could have gone in another direction - and, from what we heard at the time, nearly did.

And the O'Brien choice was almost universally disliked by the fanbase. It was not a popular choice in the slightest, and Joyner could have made a more "popular" hire by appointing Bradley to be the permanent head coach. People started to change their minds on OB after his intro press conference, but when he was hired it was far, far from a no brainer - it was a choice out of left field that paid off.

I don't like the guy, but we've seen a whole lot of schools and ADs struggle to make *one* good football hire, much less go two-for-two.
Click to expand...
Joyner deserves zero credit for hiring BOB. The facts are as follows: After stabbing JVP in the back Judas and Ira led a magical mystery tour search. They promised a "home run" hire. Every experienced college head coach turned them down. The coaches who had brief conversations were tuned off by the fact that the two turds made it very clear that JVP was to be ostracized. By the time Joyner waddled to Dallas for the Ticket City Bowl, he was afraid to venture outside of his room. With no name "home run" coach returning their calls, the search was a complete disaster. Enter Ron Jaworski a business partner of King Ira. Jaws suggested that looking at NFL coordinators might salvage the mess. BOB had hoped that NE's superbowl run would net him a HC position in the NFL. In fact, he didn't have a job for 2012, since his contract had expired with NE and Josh McDaniel was returning to the Offensive Coordinator's position at NE. BOB and PSU was a marriage of convenience for both parties. BOB turned out to be a great transition coach for PSU. Please don't think for one moment that Ira or Judas had any idea what they were doing. BOB to PSU was much like the discovery of penicillin.
 
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This is a very interesting thread as it makes clear the stark division in the Penn State alumni/fanbase between those wanting to "move on" and those who want to honor Penn State's past as exemplified by Joe Paterno. It also makes abundantly clear those individuals who often espouse the "move on" position as being either supporters or members of the "OGBOT" and/or PSU administration. See the authors of the above post supporting Joyner or "liking" pro-Joyner posts.

Osprey Lion said:
The football program was a stagnant mess
Click to expand...

This comment infuriates and puzzles me. What's the basis? PSU was 11-1 in 2005, 9-4 in 2006 and 2007, 11-2 in 2008 and 2009, 7-6 in 2010, and 8-1 in 2011 until Paterno was fired. PSU was 11-3 last year, so does that mean that CJF is running a "stagnant mess" as well? Sure, we all remember the "dark years" but Paterno did bring the program back to top 25 (and top 10) rankings.

As far as the "forest fire" comments, the conversation reminds me of the ideals of the Fabians/Globalists/New World Order people who want to tear down all the time-honored institutions and re-mold them in their own "vision." I think that's what the anti-JVP "OGBOT" and admin wanted. As marshall23 points out, the school was damn fortunate to get BOB and even more fortunate to get Franklin - no thanks to the "idiots in charge." Maybe someone who thinks they know better can tell me what's wrong with "success with honor" because it sure seems like a worthwhile ideal to me.

What to me is so very frustrating and unfortunate about the whole thing is that it was all so unnecessary. JVP was going to retire anyway. The cabal simply couldn't resist using the opportunity to insert and twist the knife, then kick the man when he's down. That's what really incenses me about the whole thing - and the press is still buying into the whole cauldron of lies.
 
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marshall23 said:
Joyner deserves zero credit for hiring BOB. The facts are as follows: After stabbing JVP in the back Judas and Ira led a magical mystery tour search. They promised a "home run" hire. Every experienced college head coach turned them down. The coaches who had brief conversations were tuned off by the fact that the two turds made it very clear that JVP was to be ostracized. By the time Joyner waddled to Dallas for the Ticket City Bowl, he was afraid to venture outside of his room. With no name "home run" coach returning their calls, the search was a complete disaster. Enter Ron Jaworski a business partner of King Ira. Jaws suggested that looking at NFL coordinators might salvage the mess. BOB had hoped that NE's superbowl run would net him a HC position in the NFL. In fact, he didn't have a job for 2012, since his contract had expired with NE and Josh McDaniel was returning to the Offensive Coordinator's position at NE. BOB and PSU was a marriage of convenience for both parties. BOB turned out to be a great transition coach for PSU. Please don't think for one moment that Ira or Judas had any idea what they were doing. BOB to PSU was much like the discovery of penicillin.
Click to expand...
I hear you, and I'm not trying to argue that any of that isn't true - I believe it. But in my book, Joyner would have gotten an awful lot of well-deserved blame if O'Brien had turned out to be a dud, so he also deserves a little bit of credit when the hire - regardless of the circumstances of the search - turns out to be a successful coach. Lots of athletic directors and search committees who *do* know what they're doing end up making really terrible coaching hires.
 
marshall23 said:
Joyner deserves zero credit for hiring BOB. The facts are as follows: After stabbing JVP in the back Judas and Ira led a magical mystery tour search. They promised a "home run" hire. Every experienced college head coach turned them down. The coaches who had brief conversations were tuned off by the fact that the two turds made it very clear that JVP was to be ostracized. By the time Joyner waddled to Dallas for the Ticket City Bowl, he was afraid to venture outside of his room. With no name "home run" coach returning their calls, the search was a complete disaster. Enter Ron Jaworski a business partner of King Ira. Jaws suggested that looking at NFL coordinators might salvage the mess. BOB had hoped that NE's superbowl run would net him a HC position in the NFL. In fact, he didn't have a job for 2012, since his contract had expired with NE and Josh McDaniel was returning to the Offensive Coordinator's position at NE. BOB and PSU was a marriage of convenience for both parties. BOB turned out to be a great transition coach for PSU. Please don't think for one moment that Ira or Judas had any idea what they were doing. BOB to PSU was much like the discovery of penicillin.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^Thanks for the reminder that Penicillin was somewhat of a "fluke" discovery. I will always be thankful for that! Joyner? Ahhh, not so much.
 
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84Lion said:
This is a very interesting thread as it makes clear the stark division in the Penn State alumni/fanbase between those wanting to "move on" and those who want to honor Penn State's past as exemplified by Joe Paterno. It also makes abundantly clear those individuals who often espouse the "move on" position as being either supporters or members of the "OGBOT" and/or PSU administration. See the authors of the above post supporting Joyner or "liking" pro-Joyner posts.



This comment infuriates and puzzles me. What's the basis? PSU was 11-1 in 2005, 9-4 in 2006 and 2007, 11-2 in 2008 and 2009, 7-6 in 2010, and 8-1 in 2011 until Paterno was fired. PSU was 11-3 last year, so does that mean that CJF is running a "stagnant mess" as well? Sure, we all remember the "dark years" but Paterno did bring the program back to top 25 (and top 10) rankings.

As far as the "forest fire" comments, the conversation reminds me of the ideals of the Fabians/Globalists/New World Order people who want to tear down all the time-honored institutions and re-mold them in their own "vision." I think that's what the anti-JVP "OGBOT" and admin wanted. As marshall23 points out, the school was damn fortunate to get BOB and even more fortunate to get Franklin - no thanks to the "idiots in charge." Maybe someone who thinks they know better can tell me what's wrong with "success with honor" because it sure seems like a worthwhile ideal to me.

What to me is so very frustrating and unfortunate about the whole thing is that it was all so unnecessary. JVP was going to retire anyway. The cabal simply couldn't resist using the opportunity to insert and twist the knife, then kick the man when he's down. That's what really incenses me about the whole thing - and the press is still buying into the whole cauldron of lies.
Click to expand...

The truth infuriates you? Tough luck. That it puzzles you shows you aren't very bright or don't
know anything about football. PSU's record against OSU under Paterno after joining the Big 10
was 6 and 12. They also had a nine game losing streak against Michigan. Most years their
offense was pitiful. Near the end, some of the coaching staff including Paterno didn't even recruit.

Follow what Franklin is doing and you will learn how real coaches operate. When the offense
floundered, he hired the best OC he could find. The coaches when not teaching are recruiting.
PSU has an offensive line coach and DC. Things they lacked in the later years. What kind
of real football program lacks a DC or OL coach? PSU had enough talent to win most
of their OOC twinkie games and beat the likes of Indiana, Purdue Illinois, etc but were no longer
a real national player. The program was a mess and now Franklin is bringing it back to
its rightful place.
 
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