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Iowa vs Penn State Coaching debate... Follow the numbers

amalone

amalone

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Oct 12, 2005
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I think Cholley Vandine on HR closed the Three Ring binder... and proved and said it best.

Since Cael arrived in State College:

Penn State: 7 team titles Cael: On his way to another.
Iowa: 1 team title

Penn State: 22 individual NCAA champs
Iowa: 8 individual NCAA champs

Penn State: 4 Hodge Trophy Winners
Iowa: 0

Penn State: 2 recruits outside the top 50 who developed into NCAA champs
Iowa: 0 recruits outside the top 50 who developed into NCAA champs

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 2 world/Olympic champs
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 0 world/Olympic champs

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 4 world/Olympic medals
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 1 world/Olympic medal

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 7 athletes on U.S. world/Olympic teams
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 5 athletes on U.S. world/Olympic teams

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 4 of the 7 Penn State NCAA champions who have completed their college eligibility have made a world/Olympic team
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 2 of the 6 Iowa NCAA champions who have completed their college eligibility have made a world/Olympic team

Hard to fault the young man for thinking that the best coach = the most successful coach.
(In reference to Robbie Howard's decision to choose Penn State)
 
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When Okie State and Penn State finish the season undefeated I wonder if there is any way to find out who is the better dual team? Oh, wait.
 
PSUer1989 said:
Best wishes for your first Christmas as a dad. Being a parent brings a whole new set of joys to the season...
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So true. The first couple are even affordable. Some Hot Wheels and a couple things that honk or make burn out noises and little guys content. Leave the clothes shopping to Momma. Those little dudes grow like Cenzo in the off-season. Momma knows. .
 
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With all do respect the Iowa days are over. Other teams and not just PSU have simply passed them up. The majority of guys who have wrestled for Brands state that he makes you hate the sport after 2 years. Well 2 guys from Pa went to Iowa that i know very well informed me. Trust me i have been a Coach and Fan of wrestling for over 30 years and have talked to thousands of College wrestlers. Not trying to be smart or anything. Just telling you facts from the wrestlers themselves. Heck look at an Iowa group pic and tell me they look happy
 
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danoftw said:
So true. The first couple are even affordable. Some Hot Wheels and a couple things that honk or make burn out noises and little guys content. Leave the clothes shopping to Momma. Those little dudes grow like Cenzo in the off-season. Momma knows. I bought a cool little jean jacket that was too small before the weather broke.
Click to expand...

That line about growing like Cenzo just about made me spit out my drink. :)
 
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danoftw said:
So true. The first couple are even affordable. Some Hot Wheels and a couple things that honk or make burn out noises and little guys content. Leave the clothes shopping to Momma. Those little dudes grow like Cenzo in the off-season. Momma knows. I bought a cool little jean jacket that was too small before the weather broke.
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Maybe cut back on the cookies and egg nog and that "cool little Jean jacket" might fit you for next year. ;)
 
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Psu_rings said:
With all do respect the Iowa days are over. Other teams and not just PSU have simply passed them up. The majority of guys who have wrestled for Brands state that he makes you hate the sport after 2 years. Well 2 guys from Pa went to Iowa that i know very well informed me. Trust me i have been a Coach and Fan of wrestling for over 30 years and have talked to thousands of College wrestlers. Not trying to be smart or anything. Just telling you facts from the wrestlers themselves. Heck look at an Iowa group pic and tell me they look happy
Click to expand...

S.T.O.P.
 
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amalone said:
I think Cholley Vandine on HR closed the Three Ring binder... and proved and said it best.

Since Cael arrived in State College:

Penn State: 7 team titles Cael: On his way to another.
Iowa: 1 team title

Penn State: 22 individual NCAA champs
Iowa: 8 individual NCAA champs

Penn State: 4 Hodge Trophy Winners
Iowa: 0

Penn State: 2 recruits outside the top 50 who developed into NCAA champs
Iowa: 0 recruits outside the top 50 who developed into NCAA champs

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 2 world/Olympic champs
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 0 world/Olympic champs

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 4 world/Olympic medals
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 1 world/Olympic medal

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 7 athletes on U.S. world/Olympic teams
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 5 athletes on U.S. world/Olympic teams

Nittany Lion Wrestling Club: 4 of the 7 Penn State NCAA champions who have completed their college eligibility have made a world/Olympic team
Hawkeye Wrestling Club: 2 of the 6 Iowa NCAA champions who have completed their college eligibility have made a world/Olympic team

Hard to fault the young man for thinking that the best coach = the most successful coach.
(In reference to Robbie Howard's decision to choose Penn State)

194 CholleyVandine, Dec 6, 2018
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Are those numbers like Halloween candy to a kid—more is better? Or are those numbers like golf scores—lower is better? Because maybe the Iowa fans are measuring things in the latter way. :)
 
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Dogwelder said:
Are those numbers like Halloween candy to a kid—more is better? Or are those numbers like golf scores—lower is better? Because maybe the Iowa fans are measuring things in the latter way. :)
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Dogwelder... I'm thinking the latter... because they seem to think the higher numbers are achieved through anything but athletic talent and in room battles. Some up in arms that this would be digested with a Christmas meal.

I'd be questioning their programs progress and stop questioning Penn States. At least Cael's Christmas gift to Penn State fans lasts the entire year and we get that huge gift... year, after year, after year and subsequent years, the gift is never forgotten. It does make for a very Merry Christmas!!!

And when I hear a Zain Retherford interview (I'm grateful), Bo Nickal (Penn State has the greatest fans... It's what we do at Penn State) or a Jason Nolf interview... (I left some points out there... when on one leg) I get re-gifted.

Merry Christmas to you Dogwelder... and all the Penn State wrestling fans who are sharing in a VERY Merry Christmas!!!
 
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Psu_rings said:
With all do respect the Iowa days are over. Other teams and not just PSU have simply passed them up. The majority of guys who have wrestled for Brands state that he makes you hate the sport after 2 years. Well 2 guys from Pa went to Iowa that i know very well informed me. Trust me i have been a Coach and Fan of wrestling for over 30 years and have talked to thousands of College wrestlers. Not trying to be smart or anything. Just telling you facts from the wrestlers themselves. Heck look at an Iowa group pic and tell me they look happy
Click to expand...

PSUAllTheWay said:
S.T.O.P.
Click to expand...

PSUatw, Succinct and apt. With all due respect (to rings), if you love PSU as much as you say, then realize that what everyone but you here seems to see is that you paint the board, PSU, and its alums in a negative light.

Your schtick is not just old, it is tiring and plain inconsiderate especially since you constantly degrade others. In light of the season, consider thinking of others first and stop posting your brand of subtle negativity. As most of our Mom's used to say, "if you can't say something nice....".

Having said that, I hope you and everyone have a great Christmas day.
 
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Or just look at the analysis Askren put together for Rudis podcast #12 - PSU the only team to wrestle above seed at NCAAs from 2009-2015 inclusive. PSU's number +.07. Iowa's? The worst of the teams analyzed at -1.72 (that's negative 1.72 or almost 2 below seed). Isn't the only true debate the one about when Iowa fans will face the facts about Cael's staff's coaching?
 
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Rudis analyses was interesting, but it could as much represent the frequency, effect and validity of coach arguments for higher seeds during the tournament seeding meeting.

Some coaches may be prone to extend debates more than others. Some coaches may see less value in participating or extending such debates.
 
I must say that I do not like to come over here and hear people bash Brands any more than I like to go over there and hear people bash Cael.
On a more positive note, the other day my wife asked me if PSU was going to wrestle near us some day. I told her they will be in Champaign in Feb. (abut 50 miles) She said lets go watch them. When they are on TV she sits down to watch.
Your PSU guys are entertaining and classy and are bringing another fan to the sport. Maybe I will see some of you in Champaign.
Marry Christmas gents (and ladies if you are out there)
 
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matter7172 said:
Or just look at the analysis Askren put together for Rudis podcast #12 - PSU the only team to wrestle above seed at NCAAs from 2009-2015 inclusive. PSU's number +.07. Iowa's? The worst of the teams analyzed at -1.72 (that's negative 1.72 or almost 2 below seed). Isn't the only true debate the one about when Iowa fans will face the facts about Cael's staff's coaching?
Click to expand...
And Askren pointed out (as have people on this list) that Penn State’s degree of difficulty was higher because Penn State has gotten higher seeds. For example, a three seed can go up only two spots but can go down many more spots.
 
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Dogwelder said:
And Askren pointed out (as have people on this list) that Penn State’s degree of difficulty was higher because Penn State has gotten higher seeds. For example, a three seed can go up only two spots but can go down many more spots.
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that is a great point... recruiting doesn't impact that!
 
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a_mshaffer said:
that is a great point... recruiting doesn't impact that!
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Love it....Cael wants the entire gym ROCKING and EVERYONE STANDING and being LOUD....Man i am really pumped for the scuffle now and 2 BIG TIME RECRUITS who will be there to see the atmoshere, Let's not let them down everyone..Spread the word. I know some may have not planned to go but please change your mind and come have a GREAT time...The scufle is always AWESOME....
 
Psu_rings said:
Love it....Cael wants the entire gym ROCKING and EVERYONE STANDING and being LOUD....Man i am really pumped for the scuffle now and 2 BIG TIME RECRUITS who will be there to see the atmoshere, Let's not let them down everyone..Spread the word. I know some may have not planned to go but please change your mind and come have a GREAT time...The scufle is always AWESOME....
Click to expand...

Maybe I missed it further up in the thread, but which two recruits will be in attendance?
 
Dogwelder said:
And Askren pointed out (as have people on this list) that Penn State’s degree of difficulty was higher because Penn State has gotten higher seeds. For example, a three seed can go up only two spots but can go down many more spots.
Click to expand...
Since Penn State wrestlers on average finish higher than their seed, that means that all the #1 seeded Penn State wrestlers who win national titles actually bring down the team average because they wrestle only to seed. So the gaudy Penn State average is actually hindered and not helped by the most dominant seasons of DT, Ruth, Zain, Nolf, Nickal, ... Wow.
 
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Dogwelder said:
Since Penn State wrestlers on average finish higher than their seed, that means that all the #1 seeded Penn State wrestlers who win national titles actually bring down the team average because they wrestle only to seed. So the gaudy Penn State average are actually hindered and not helped by the most dominant seasons of DT, Ruth, Zain, Nolf, Nickal. Wow.
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Hence... the belief before these numbers were laid out before us.... that Penn State wrestlers wrestle their best in March. Well.... they do. Statistics and being at ones best via coaching and wrestling in the best room in the country with those coaches, who go one on one with their wrestlers, daily, will provide for such results.

David Taylor, World Champion David Taylor, talks extensively about "play wrestling" with his coaches during structured practices at Penn State and not being in a position he hasn't been in before. Coaching provides for those scenarios. And we have the best in the country. The National Championships keep piling up, the dual match winning streak keeps growing, sell outs at Rec Hall keep growing... Individual 94 win, win streaks like Zain Retherford put up at the end of his career are the norm. Jason Nolf and Bo Nickal will have similar streaks. Don't count out Vincenzo Joseph having a similar streak.

Keep providing those results... Coach Cael, Coach Cunningham and Coach Cody. The nation's collegiate wrestling "Dream Coaching Team". Add in trainer, Dan Monthly, who David Taylor called the best trainer in the business after training Jason Nolf back to health... and you can see why the results kept piling up. As in lasting Dynasty piling up.
 
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Psu_rings said:
The majority of guys who have wrestled for Brands state that he makes you hate the sport after 2 years. Well 2 guys from Pa went to Iowa that i know very well informed me.
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Name those 2 from PA.

Consider it your Christmas gift to the board.
 
I think if you dig deeper into the numbers its much more compelling. I also think before this last contract extension for Cael, PSU was getting more for their money than Iowa was.
 
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dunkej01 said:
I think if you dig deeper into the numbers its much more compelling. I also think before this last contract extension for Cael, PSU was getting more for their money than Iowa was.
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Only if you don't factor in the slush fund dollars. ;-) Ssshhhh!!!! Its our secret. Don't tell HR.
 
El-Jefe said:
Name those 2 from PA.

Consider it your Christmas gift to the board.
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Lol El....The longer guys wrestle for Iowa the more they hate the sport...Let me say 90 % of them. I have talked to many over the years and it's a known fact !!!! Ask Mike Evens from here in Pa. He has some great but sad stories.... Oh well glad we have Cael and Staff !!!!
 
Psu_rings said:
Lol El....The longer guys wrestle for Iowa the more they hate the sport...Let me say 90 % of them. I have talked to many over the years and it's a known fact !!!! Ask Mike Evens from here in Pa. He has some great but sad stories.... Oh well glad we have Cael and Staff !!!!
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I think everyone on here has expressed multiple times that they do not believe you when you post stuff like this. Why bother? Also have you talked to Stoll about whether or not he shot himself in the knee to avoid wrestling for Iowa?
 
Psu_rings said:
Lol El....The longer guys wrestle for Iowa the more they hate the sport...Let me say 90 % of them. I have talked to many over the years and it's a known fact !!!! Ask Mike Evens from here in Pa. He has some great but sad stories.... Oh well glad we have Cael and Staff !!!!
Click to expand...
That's one. You said two, who's the other?

BTW, is that the same Mike Evans who returned to train at HWC under Brands as a graduate?
 
Psu_rings said:
Lol El....The longer guys wrestle for Iowa the more they hate the sport...Let me say 90 % of them. I have talked to many over the years and it's a known fact !!!! Ask Mike Evens from here in Pa. He has some great but sad stories.... Oh well glad we have Cael and Staff !!!!
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I honestly believe it's style. Some kids love just wrestling to win some kids want to be agressive and dominate. Cael has a style that pushes kids to be agressive which makes wrestling more exciting. I think top kids who want to go somewhere realize they will need to learn that style.
 
District four said:
I honestly believe it's style. Some kids love just wrestling to win some kids want to be agressive and dominate. Cael has a style that pushes kids to be agressive which makes wrestling more exciting. I think top kids who want to go somewhere realize they will need to learn that style.
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Awesome...No Coach in the country like Cael Sanderson hands down...NOT EVEN CLOSE AND THAT IS THE TRUTH....
 
Psu_rings said:
Love it....Cael wants the entire gym ROCKING and EVERYONE STANDING and being LOUD....Man i am really pumped for the scuffle now and 2 BIG TIME RECRUITS who will be there to see the atmoshere, Let's not let them down everyone..Spread the word. I know some may have not planned to go but please change your mind and come have a GREAT time...The scufle is always AWESOME....
Click to expand...
Are you going to be wearing all white? If you do, put on a big blue nametag that says "RINGS" so everyone can come talk to you. Most think you are either imaginary, or a cross between the invisible man and superman. Let them know you are human - and bring lots of cash so you can pay your pledge! You will recognize me-I will be in the grey shirt with an orange "COWBOY" across the front.
 
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Hey PSU rings do everybody a favor and STFU you make everyone dumber around you. I never post but follow both PSU and Iowa boards and with out doubt the only thing PSU and Iowa fans agree on is they hate you.
 
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