Is Nick Saban the greatest coach in college football history?

[LemonEars]

The purpose of a football coach is to win games. Joe Paterno won 409 games. Saban has won 243 games. If Saban gets to 409 then he will be better than Joe. And don't forget, for most years that Joe coached each team played fewer games than they now do. If Joe's teams would have played 13 games a year instead of 11, Joe would have over 500 wins.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Given his championships at Alabama and LSU, it makes a person wonder why his years at Michigan State weren't more successful.

There's a big and obvious answer to this. And if he could have attracted the #1 or #2 recruiting class for about a decade straight, he would have won like this at MSU too.

 

[ouirpsu]

Not until he does something of note at a good school that values academics.

That’s such a myth. While UA may not be at the same academic level as PSU, it absolutely values academics, just like PSU:

Highlights of the 2020 freshman class include 42.3% with a 4.0 GPA in high school, 39.9% scoring 30 or higher on the ACT, an average high school GPA of 3.83.

UA continues to be a leader among public universities in the enrollment of National Merit Scholars. The 2020 freshman class includes 221 National Merit Scholars. Currently, UA has almost 800 National Merit Scholars enrolled.

UA has achieved R1: Doctoral Universities – Very High Research Activity status in the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education.

University of Alabama students continue to win prestigious national awards. Fifty-seven UA students have been named Goldwater Scholars. The University of Alabama has produced a total of 15 Rhodes Scholars, 16 Truman Scholars, 36 Hollings Scholars and 15 Boren Scholars.

Thirty-two current UA faculty have received NSF CAREER Awards, the nation’s most prestigious recognition of top-performing young scientists, in disciplines ranging from nanoscience and engineering to biological sciences. During the 2019-2020 academic year, seven professors received this award, the most awards in a single year at UA. And 52 UA faculty researchers are in the National Academy of Inventors.

14 University alumni and students won Fulbright Awards for 2020-21.

U.S. News and World Report ranks The University of Alabama’s Manderson Graduate School of Business No. 19 among public universities and its Online Business Master’s programs 10th in the nation. The rankings are based on level of accreditation, faculty credentials, admissions selectivity, reputation for excellence among peer institutions and academic and career support services offered to students.

UA's Culverhouse School of Accountancy's undergraduate program ranks 11th overall in 2019, 10th overall for a program with a faculty size at more than 24 and 3rd in the South, according to Public Accounting Report. UA’s master’s programs are ranked 10th overall, 8th in schools with more than 24 faculty and 2nd in the South. UA’s doctoral program is ranked 9th overall.

U.S. News and World Report ranks The University of Alabama's School of Law No. 12 among public universities.

The UA Department of Advertising and Public Relations was named the Most Outstanding Education Program by PRWeek during the 2020 PRWeek Awards. It is the department’s ninth recognition as a finalist for the award, and its first selection as the top program.

 

[crm114psu]

The purpose of a football coach is to win games. Joe Paterno won 409 games. Saban has won 243 games. If Saban gets to 409 then he will be better than Joe. And don't forget, for most years that Joe coached each team played fewer games than they now do. If Joe's teams would have played 13 games a year instead of 11, Joe would have over 500 wins.

Paterno never sustained the level of success that Saban has produced.

 

[katchthis]

I thought Ohio State had a bad game plan. They played way too soft on defense. When you plan like that, you send a message that the other team has better athletes. In addition, it allowed AL to get on a roll (get it, roll tide?) and were feeling it when they got into the red zone. I don't know if there was any way for tOSU to win, though. They had no answer for the RB and the WR's. In addition, AL had some very creating offensive plays. If I was a player, I'd love to play for their OC.

But the bottom line is that for all of the heat AL takes for signing 5 star primadonnas, they played as a true team. Many kids who could have gone to the NFL last year came back to win a MNC. Nobody "opted out" or was afraid. They were aggressive and spanked every single team they played. They addressed COVID head-on and never panicked.

IMO, it is amazing how little show boating they display compared to the other teams. Also, I don't recall seeing a case of infighting between the players or players/coaches during a game. Players like Smith and Harris come back for another season instead of opting for the draft. Saban has cultivated quite a culture of success.

 

[walleye38]

Discuss.

He has made Alabama the one elite program in College Football. The rest are just there for cannon fodder.

 

[PearlSUJam]

I believe he meant to write Earth not ether but point proven.

 

[CF LION]

Saban has certainly had the most success in terms of NC's and dominance during his tenure as coach. While it's true that he gets the best players year in and year out seemingly without really trying, he created the machine that attracts those players. I guess that makes him the GOAT.

 

[SR108]

they did. I would argue because they were out of position. maybe it was the lack of being tested. But not only did they allow this kid to play unabated underneath all game, they ended up hurting their own psyche.

The older I get one axiom I've learned is: attack, never defend. If you are defending, you are losing. tOSU came in "defensive". They came in thinking tOSU was the better team and needed to game-plan for a hope and prayer. It didn't help that Sermon got hurt on the first play. But if I was day, I'd take my best CB and put him on Smith and then bring the house to put pressure on Mack. Hell, a loss by one or a loss by 50 is still a loss. It simply appeared that tOSU game planned to not get embarrassed.

Yep, they played not to lose, rather than play to win.

 

[IANit]

Absolutely phenomenal what Saban has built and more importantly sustained at Bama.

It's very impressive. Nebraska had a run from 1993-1997 when they were 60-3 with 3 unbeaten seasons and a missed field goal away from a fourth that is pretty hard to top in the 85-scholarship era. Alabama has come the closest of anyone to matching or beating that run and it's been over 10+ seasons, plus they've had to play the other Power 5 unbeaten teams, which Nebraska did not. The only other dominant runs of similar length I can think of are Miami from 1983-1991, USC from 2002-2008.and FSU from 1987-2000 (never lower than #4 to end a season). Clemson is having a nice run since 2014 or Alabama would probably have 2 more titles.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I believe he meant to write Earth not ether but point proven.

View embedded media

It's also worth noting Bama does not have any social justice messages on its uniform (unless I missed them). All business all the time. Players have bought into that philosophy there - big time.

 

[Waste Management Consultant]

I was so impressed with DaVanta. He is a winner on and off the field. I wish I could buy stock in him.

Absolutely, what an impressive young man.

 

[LemonEars]

Paterno never sustained the level of success that Saban has produced.

And Saban hasn't demonstrated that he can sustain success over many decades like Joe did. It isn't a valid question to say "Who is the greatest college football coach of all time?" without providing criteria to respond to the question.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Discuss.

Maybe?

While I understand that coaches can get better throughout their careers, he was VERY pedestrian while at Michigan State. His overall record was 28-23. They had one "good" season (1999) in which they went 9-2 and finished third in the conference.

Maybe this just demonstrates how much easier it is to coach in the SEC (better regional access to players, less stress on academics, more support from the upper level university administration).

What he has done is impressive. But it isn't hard to win football games when you have three Heisman trophy finalists (including the winner) on your offense.

 

[crm114psu]

Joe had a 5-year run of top 10 finishes. Saban's streak is currently at 13. Joe won the Big10 outright 1 time, tied for first twice. Saban has 9 SEC titles.

Joe never dominated the CFB landscape on the same scale that Saban has. He did win a lot of games but he also coached for a long time. Over the last decade Saban's down years were those where he lost 2 games.

Of course, Joe's players speak of him fondly as a great influence on their lives. That has never happened with any of Saban's players. Or Bear's or Woody's players either, they have nothing but bad things to say about their past coach.

 

[katchthis]

Joe had a 5-year run of top 10 finishes. Saban's streak is currently at 13. Joe won the Big10 outright 1 time, tied for first twice. Saban has 9 SEC titles.

Joe never dominated the CFB landscape on the same scale that Saban has. He did win a lot of games but he also coached for a long time. Over the last decade Saban's down years were those where he lost 2 games.

Of course, Joe's players speak of him fondly as a great influence on their lives. That has never happened with any of Saban's players. Or Bear's or Woody's players either, they have nothing but bad things to say about their past coach.

I would guess this list of guys might have something good to say about their former mentor .

Nick Saban reacts to Alabama having former players as starters at every position in the NFL

A ton of Crimson Tide players have gone on to have success.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com

 

[MedDawg]

Not until he does something of note at a good school that values academics.

For 2020, Bama finished #7 in the APR with a 990. Penn State finished #24 with a 982. So they are at least making good efforts to progress in school.

As far as a "good school"...Penn State is overall a better school than Bama, but do you really think there's a 5-star on Bama's team that Franklin would not want and Penn State would not admit?

 

[Cpeplion]

That’s true but bringing in these players is part of the job and he does it better than anyone.

That is true for sure. It also is a little bit easier for him to get all the best recruits in the country nowdays than it was for coaches even 20 years ago to do so.

Just like players, I think you have to do this thing generationaly...If Joe, Bowden, or Osbourne had the same resources Saban has today, they could possibly have the same results.

I think Saban is the best (Football Coach) of his generation...not gonna say best ever...I would also argue if you want to say best coach...hands down..that's Cael. again...jmho

 

[PSUSignore]

Paterno never sustained the level of success that Saban has produced.

Nobody has. Saban's Bama teams win a national title at least every 3 years. That is remarkable. He's clearly the best in the game. Even with the talent advantage it takes a great coach to execute, motivate and keep those big egos from star players and recruits in check.

 

[katchthis]

A little dated article on why recruits pick the schools they attend. I would gather the reasons wouldn't change much, but the selected schools have shifted some. Being part of a successful brand, and top notch facilities are at the top of the list. CJF while at Vandy is quoted in the link.
The Surprising Factors Driving College Football Recruits' College Decision (forbes.com)

 

[john4psu]

I say yes for the following reasons:
- He gets 5-star players to buy into his system and wait their opportunity for success.
- He's won with dominant defenses and strong running games and now adapted and wins with wide-open offenses and passing attack.
- He's won a national championship at two different schools.
- He keeps winning despite constant coaching changes of assistants and coordinators.

 

[RCS-PSU70]

Yes, nothing to discuss. Bear Bryant, Urban Meyer, Joepa, Tom Osborne, and Woody Hayes round out the top 6. Bowden and Wilkinson are up there as well.

Saban is the best though.

IObviously it is hard to argue Saban's results. But it takes the right situation, administrative support, unlimited resources, etc. but he still put it all together. On the other hand, he left Michigan State because he thought he couldn't win there. They eventually did after he left. In my best list, I would include coaches like Bill Snyder who took longtime loser Kansas State to a top ten team and it fell apart as soon as he left. He built a program with no history, no facilities, an isolated location, etc. into a big time program and that is a tough accomplishment.

 

[ryoder1]

Saban is the best college coach of all time no question. His record at Alabama is incredible. He not only is the greatest coach of all time he is well ahead of whomever is 2nd.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Discuss.

Yes

 

[Nittany1997]

John Gagliardi

 

[GregInPitt]

I know i'm in the minority, but Sabin never won anything anywhere, NCAA or NFL, before he got to a place with unlimited resources, unlimited budgets, and no adherence to the rules governing most of his competition.

But I have to admit that Bama did a spectacular job of mixing up and disguising the plays on offense in what I saw of the game last night. Hope his OC takes the offense with him to Texas.....

 

[PSUSignore]

I know i'm in the minority, but Sabin never won anything anywhere, NCAA or NFL, before he got to a place with unlimited resources, unlimited budgets, and no adherence to the rules governing most of his competition.

But I have to admit that Bama did a spectacular job of mixing up and disguising the plays on offense in what I saw of the game last night. Hope his OC takes the offense with him to Texas.....

On the flipside, others with similar resources haven't had anywhere near the success he's had. Maybe it's recency bias but Saban is the GOAT and I don't think it's even close.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

The purpose of a football coach is to win games. Joe Paterno won 409 games. Saban has won 243 games. If Saban gets to 409 then he will be better than Joe. And don't forget, for most years that Joe coached each team played fewer games than they now do. If Joe's teams would have played 13 games a year instead of 11, Joe would have over 500 wins.

That's a fair point of view. Though Nick has a higher winning %.

Others could argue that the purpose is to win championships. Even if you credit Joe with titles for '69 and '94, Saban still has a 7 to 4 edge in national titles. And in half the seasons.

Saban has more wins over the #1 team. More wins over top-5 teams. More wins over top-25 teams. He has nearly as many top-5 finishes (10 for Saban, 13 for Joe). And he's done all that in half the seasons as Joe.

Nobody will top the way Joe did what he did with honor.

But if we're looking purely at success on the field, Saban is in a category by himself. And it's not particularly close, IMO.

 

[91Joe95]

Discuss.

Is Nick Saban the greatest oversigner in the history of cfb? I would argue yes. He also has had the benefit of a small playoff to actually settle it on the field. Does that make him the best of all time because he got to play with different rules? Seems like a preposterous thing to argue in the affirmative given the widely different set of coaching parameters.

 

[AWS1022]

IObviously it is hard to argue Saban's results. But it takes the right situation, administrative support, unlimited resources, etc. but he still put it all together. On the other hand, he left Michigan State because he thought he couldn't win there. They eventually did after he left. In my best list, I would include coaches like Bill Snyder who took longtime loser Kansas State to a top ten team and it fell apart as soon as he left. He built a program with no history, no facilities, an isolated location, etc. into a big time program and that is a tough accomplishment.

Or coaches like Franklin who took Vandy to back to back 9 win seasons and they fell apart after he left and they sucked before he got there.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

I know i'm in the minority, but Sabin never won anything anywhere, NCAA or NFL, before he got to a place with unlimited resources, unlimited budgets, and no adherence to the rules governing most of his competition.

But I have to admit that Bama did a spectacular job of mixing up and disguising the plays on offense in what I saw of the game last night. Hope his OC takes the offense with him to Texas.....

That's true.

However, these schools don't automatically win championships with just anybody at the helm. Ask Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, or Mike Shula.

Programs like Florida and Texas are primed for huge success with the right coach. McElwain couldn't do it. Zook couldn't do it. Strong couldn't do it. Herman couldn't do it.

If it were merely a matter of resources and rabid fan bases, then why has Texas A&M been so mediocre until just recently? Why isn't Nebraska winning? What is Tennessee's excuse? Or Michigan?

I know that's not exactly what you're saying.......but this argument that Saban merely benefits from the resources at his university is misleading.

 

[PAgeologist]

Agreed....I haven't paid all that much attention to AL but I wonder how he gets five star kids to sacrifice for the team. They had 4 or 5 kids that would have made $1m+ by going to the NFL last year but chose to come back to play for a NC. It was clear how much they all backed each other. AL is a stepping stone to huge success. That is why BOB is going there. He's a very good coach who had some success and, recently, failure. Immersing yourself in that program before taking the next job is a very good move.

Plus many of those stars last night sat multiple years behind other stars. They didn't transfer.

 

[Gnat91]

Yes.

 

[PearlSUJam]

That's true.

However, these schools don't automatically win championships with just anybody at the helm. Ask Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, or Mike Shula.

Programs like Florida and Texas are primed for huge success with the right coach. McElwain couldn't do it. Zook couldn't do it. Strong couldn't do it. Herman couldn't do it.

If it were merely a matter of resources and rabid fan bases, then why has Texas A&M been so mediocre until just recently? Why isn't Nebraska winning? What is Tennessee's excuse? Or Michigan?

I know that's not exactly what you're saying.......but this argument that Saban merely benefits from the resources at his university is misleading.

Bama is 5-10 years ahead of everyone else because they decided to go all in and seriously treat it as a business while everyone else was saying "arms race" blah blah blah. They actually put up the money and here we are. It's like giving a great runner a 5 mile head start in a marathon. Gotta hope the dude gets cramps or sprains an ankle at this point.

The reason those other schools you mentioned can't do it is because Bama can get any player they want.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

Bama is 5-10 years ahead of everyone else because they decided to go all in and seriously treat it as a business while everyone else was saying "arms race" blah blah blah. They actually put up the money and here we are. It's like giving a great runner a 5 mile head start in a marathon. Gotta hope the dude gets cramps or sprains an ankle at this point.

The reason those other schools you mentioned can't do it is because Bama can get any player they want.

No doubt about it. Though part of that money was investing in Nick Saban. And money well spent.

Simply put, if they spent the same money on facilities/recruiting/staff, etc. but had almost any other coach, I don't think the results are the same.

The thing is, he could decide to retire tomorrow, and they probably have Dabo lined up next.

Just disgusting.

Can't one of those two dudes go pro or something?

 

[PAgeologist]

Saban has certainly had the most success in terms of NC's and dominance during his tenure as coach. While it's true that he gets the best players year in and year out seemingly without really trying, he created the machine that attracts those players. I guess that makes him the GOAT.

Having success and getting the best players go hand in hand. If Saban starts going 8-4 with that talent, he will stop getting those top classes. He gets kids to the NFL and wins championships.

The only thing I see stopping Bama is Saban retiring.

 

[IANit]

That is true for sure. It also is a little bit easier for him to get all the best recruits in the country nowdays than it was for coaches even 20 years ago to do so.

Just like players, I think you have to do this thing generationaly...If Joe, Bowden, or Osbourne had the same resources Saban has today, they could possibly have the same results.

I think Saban is the best (Football Coach) of his generation...not gonna say best ever...I would also argue if you want to say best coach...hands down..that's Cael. again...jmho

No disrespect to Cael, but Dan Gable coached Iowa to Big Ten tournament titles every year he coached (22 seasons) and had 15 national titles. Cael has 6 Big Ten titles and 8 national titles. I think things are more competitive now in the conference and Cael tends to optimize for the national championships over the conference tournament. Also, Iowa had won the national title the year before Gable took over, so he didn't have much of a building job. But I think Cael has a ways to go before he tops Gable.

 

[IANit]

There's a big and obvious answer to this. And if he could have attracted the #1 or #2 recruiting class for about a decade straight, he would have won like this at MSU too.

Maybe, but he had at least 3 or 4 better programs to deal with (Ohio State, PSU, Michigan and Wisconsin).

 

[IANit]

That’s such a myth. While UA may not be at the same academic level as PSU, it absolutely values academics, just like PSU:

Highlights of the 2020 freshman class include 42.3% with a 4.0 GPA in high school, 39.9% scoring 30 or higher on the ACT, an average high school GPA of 3.83.

UA continues to be a leader among public universities in the enrollment of National Merit Scholars. The 2020 freshman class includes 221 National Merit Scholars. Currently, UA has almost 800 National Merit Scholars enrolled.

UA has achieved R1: Doctoral Universities – Very High Research Activity status in the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education.

University of Alabama students continue to win prestigious national awards. Fifty-seven UA students have been named Goldwater Scholars. The University of Alabama has produced a total of 15 Rhodes Scholars, 16 Truman Scholars, 36 Hollings Scholars and 15 Boren Scholars.

Thirty-two current UA faculty have received NSF CAREER Awards, the nation’s most prestigious recognition of top-performing young scientists, in disciplines ranging from nanoscience and engineering to biological sciences. During the 2019-2020 academic year, seven professors received this award, the most awards in a single year at UA. And 52 UA faculty researchers are in the National Academy of Inventors.

14 University alumni and students won Fulbright Awards for 2020-21.

U.S. News and World Report ranks The University of Alabama’s Manderson Graduate School of Business No. 19 among public universities and its Online Business Master’s programs 10th in the nation. The rankings are based on level of accreditation, faculty credentials, admissions selectivity, reputation for excellence among peer institutions and academic and career support services offered to students.

UA's Culverhouse School of Accountancy's undergraduate program ranks 11th overall in 2019, 10th overall for a program with a faculty size at more than 24 and 3rd in the South, according to Public Accounting Report. UA’s master’s programs are ranked 10th overall, 8th in schools with more than 24 faculty and 2nd in the South. UA’s doctoral program is ranked 9th overall.

U.S. News and World Report ranks The University of Alabama's School of Law No. 12 among public universities.

The UA Department of Advertising and Public Relations was named the Most Outstanding Education Program by PRWeek during the 2020 PRWeek Awards. It is the department’s ninth recognition as a finalist for the award, and its first selection as the top program.

It's not a bad school from what I know. But to be clear they're effectively buying Merit Scholars to raise the University's academic profile. I was a finalist and got no money from Penn State for it. Alabama gives admitted finalists who make it their first choice up to 5 years tuition (undergraduate or graduate, including law) 4 years of housing and a $3500/year stipend for 4 years plus a $2000 book scholarship ($500/year for 4 years). You can also get $2000 for summer research or international study. Semifinalists there can get free tuition for 4 years. Penn State will consider you for up to $2000/year for 4 years.

 

[PSUcup1]

No disrespect to Cael, but Dan Gable coached Iowa to Big Ten tournament titles every year he coached (22 seasons) and had 15 national titles. Cael has 6 Big Ten titles and 8 national titles. I think things are more competitive now in the conference and Cael tends to optimize for the national championships over the conference tournament. Also, Iowa had won the national title the year before Gable took over, so he didn't have much of a building job. But I think Cael has a ways to go before he tops Gable.

Gable also cheated .... (but he was still an absolutely amazing coach)