Is Retherford/Nolf/Nickal > Taylor/Ruth/Brown ?
- Thread starter Dogwelder
- Start date
A relatively minor consideration, but somewhat of a preference for 3 big hitters in a row; Taylor, Brown, and Ruth gave us that at 165,174,184 while the other team now gets a "breather" when we roll out 149,157, and 2 weights in between Bo at 184.
On balance, and despite the above, I'd say the 2017 trio is a bit better.
On balance, and despite the above, I'd say the 2017 trio is a bit better.
There will be no breather next year: Zain, Nolf, Cenzo, Hall, Bo
Based on what I learned while following the Oracle of Dinkytown here on the interwebs, my understanding is that Taylor/Ruth/Brown was a once-in-a-generation accumulation of talent created by a double recruiting class.
So the answer must be no.
Though I'd be inclined to vote yes.
So the answer must be no.
Though I'd be inclined to vote yes.
That's a tougher one, especially given my emotional favoritism for all subjects Q, but I look at it this way:
DT = 2x NC, 4x finalist
ER = 3x NC, 3x finalist
Q = 2x NC, 3x finalist
Zain likely 3x NC, 3x finalist (=ER)
Nolf likely 3x NC, 4-time finalist (>DT)
Bo maybe 2x NC, 4-time finalist (>Q)?
Not as easy for me to predict Bo's path, so it is damn close. Again, this is a points-only opinion.
Cael emphasizes goals of team championships and individual championships. So I would give each wrestler a point for being a starter on a national championship team and an additional point for winning an individual championship. So I'll score this way: team championship points as a starter at nationals/points as an individual national champion
Taylor: 4/2 = 6
Ruth: 4/3 = 7
Brown: 2/1 = 3
TOTAL = 16 pts
Zain: 2/1 = 3
Nolf: 1/0 = 1
Bo: 1/0 = 1
TOTAL = 4 pts
So based on this formula, Taylor/Ruth/Brown is clearly better.
HOWEVER, Zain/Nolf/Bo are still wrestling and their potential is:
Zain: 4/3 = 7
Nolf: 4/3 = 7
Bo: 4/3 = 7
TOTAL = 21 pts
Bottom line: too early to tell but I like the Zain/Nolf/Bo chances to be better.
Taylor: 4/2 = 6
Ruth: 4/3 = 7
Brown: 2/1 = 3
TOTAL = 16 pts
Zain: 2/1 = 3
Nolf: 1/0 = 1
Bo: 1/0 = 1
TOTAL = 4 pts
So based on this formula, Taylor/Ruth/Brown is clearly better.
HOWEVER, Zain/Nolf/Bo are still wrestling and their potential is:
Zain: 4/3 = 7
Nolf: 4/3 = 7
Bo: 4/3 = 7
TOTAL = 21 pts
Bottom line: too early to tell but I like the Zain/Nolf/Bo chances to be better.
Another interesting comparison of Nolf vs DT: both lost in finals to 4x and potentially 4-time NCAA champs. Not every superstar that falls short, falls short to someone of that caliber. It remains to be seen if Imar's career matches Dake's.
As dominant as ER was, Zain is looking to be even more dominant in his last 3 years.
Bo and Q have a stylistic comparison as well as a results comparison. As great as Q's career was, I'm guessing Bo's will be even a little more phenomenal. I love both of their styles!
This is like in 90s when Yankees fans were asking if Derek Jeter was up there with the Yankee greats, Mantle, DiMaggio, Gehrig, and Ruth. Even if the answer is no, if you're a Yankee fan, you're just thrilled to be having the conversation.
And no I am not comparing anyone to the all time wrestling greats. Just thrilled to be discussing this.
And no I am not comparing anyone to the all time wrestling greats. Just thrilled to be discussing this.
Obviously too early to tell but took a crack at comparing with some projection for Zain, Nolf and Nickal
(all existing Stats I got from Penn State Wrestling Club website)
Taylor - 2-1-2-1 - 134-3 with 53 falls and another 72 wins by bonus 91% bonus
Ruth - 3-1-1-1 - 136-3 with 46 falls and another 58 wins by bonus 75% bonus
Quentin 6-1-2-1 - 116-23 with 38 falls and another 25 wins by bonus 45%
(I went with him over Brown based on AA his freshman year)
Here's some projection for Zain, Nolf, and Bo
Zain - 5-1-1-1 - 131-3 with 60 falls and another 41 wins by bonus (assuming he doesn't bonus in 4 matches over next 1.5 years) 75% bonus
Nolf - 2-1-1-1 - 131-2 with 73 pins and another 51 wins by bonus (assuming he doesn't bonus in 5 matches over next 2.5 years) 93% bonus
Nickal - 2-2-1-1 - 130-4 with 61 pins and another 47 wins by bonus (assuming he doesn't bonus in 13 matches over next 2.5 years) 80% bonus
These numbers look ridiculous and its obviously assumes health, but I don't think they are too rose colored.
Can anyone see Zain losing in the next year and a half? Maybe he doesn't bonus as often as I'm projecting but based on weight class this year and next I just don't see anyone short of Boringsen and maybe Collica being able to keep Zain from bonus.
Nolf same thing - maybe Kemerer in Nolf Junior/Senior years can keep Nolf from bonusing.... also assuming Nolf doesn't try to go up and take out Martinez next year I can't see anyone in the ranks today or future that can beat him. (I'd love to see Nolf/Martinez 4 in All Star meet next year.....)
Nickal - I'm assuming he loses to Dean in finals this year (Dean probably a 60/40 favorite) and I threw in another loss over the his final two years. I think that weight is a little deeper than 149/157 and I don't have him bonusing as quite the rate that Zain and Nolf are for same reasons. Nickal's projections might be most optimistic of the three based on his competition and his style (more risk).
I think you can throw at least 2 Hodge Trophies into the mix with these three as well.
By all objective measures they would eclipse Taylor/Ruth/Q but I do think that TRQ get points for establishing such lofty stats for ZNN to chase. Regardless its amazing to be witness to such greatness.
Imagine if we expand to include Mega and Brown into the TRQ group and Suriano and Hall into the ZNN group.....WOW! Priveledge to watch them all.
(all existing Stats I got from Penn State Wrestling Club website)
Taylor - 2-1-2-1 - 134-3 with 53 falls and another 72 wins by bonus 91% bonus
Ruth - 3-1-1-1 - 136-3 with 46 falls and another 58 wins by bonus 75% bonus
Quentin 6-1-2-1 - 116-23 with 38 falls and another 25 wins by bonus 45%
(I went with him over Brown based on AA his freshman year)
Here's some projection for Zain, Nolf, and Bo
Zain - 5-1-1-1 - 131-3 with 60 falls and another 41 wins by bonus (assuming he doesn't bonus in 4 matches over next 1.5 years) 75% bonus
Nolf - 2-1-1-1 - 131-2 with 73 pins and another 51 wins by bonus (assuming he doesn't bonus in 5 matches over next 2.5 years) 93% bonus
Nickal - 2-2-1-1 - 130-4 with 61 pins and another 47 wins by bonus (assuming he doesn't bonus in 13 matches over next 2.5 years) 80% bonus
These numbers look ridiculous and its obviously assumes health, but I don't think they are too rose colored.
Can anyone see Zain losing in the next year and a half? Maybe he doesn't bonus as often as I'm projecting but based on weight class this year and next I just don't see anyone short of Boringsen and maybe Collica being able to keep Zain from bonus.
Nolf same thing - maybe Kemerer in Nolf Junior/Senior years can keep Nolf from bonusing.... also assuming Nolf doesn't try to go up and take out Martinez next year I can't see anyone in the ranks today or future that can beat him. (I'd love to see Nolf/Martinez 4 in All Star meet next year.....)
Nickal - I'm assuming he loses to Dean in finals this year (Dean probably a 60/40 favorite) and I threw in another loss over the his final two years. I think that weight is a little deeper than 149/157 and I don't have him bonusing as quite the rate that Zain and Nolf are for same reasons. Nickal's projections might be most optimistic of the three based on his competition and his style (more risk).
I think you can throw at least 2 Hodge Trophies into the mix with these three as well.
By all objective measures they would eclipse Taylor/Ruth/Q but I do think that TRQ get points for establishing such lofty stats for ZNN to chase. Regardless its amazing to be witness to such greatness.
Imagine if we expand to include Mega and Brown into the TRQ group and Suriano and Hall into the ZNN group.....WOW! Priveledge to watch them all.
3 points
1) DT/ED/Q until their careers play out
2) these are first world problems
3) sunderland recruited mark hall
1) DT/ED/Q until their careers play out
2) these are first world problems
3) sunderland recruited mark hall
As much fun as it is to discuss, the question is unanswerable. Data is incomplete at this point.
If we wait until we have all information, then anybody would be able to determine the exact answer, and Vegas wouldn't take our bets. The fun is in being Nostradamus and impressing all the girls with our genius *ahead of time*
Willie's been known to close a few deals for us. Just ask HR.
9-1/2 hour analysis on the crapper this time . . . but again, no data presented to support the conclusion.
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