Is this OK?
- Thread starter Nbergbuck
- Start date
I wouldn't know who he is if I wasn't a PSU fan/alum and I never heard of him until he funded the ice arena for PSU
I don't watch tennis regularly.
I know many owners of US pro franchises, but most I do not. I assume a Steinbrenner still owns the Yanks, but I have no idea who owns the Mets, Nets, Knicks, Rangers, Islanders, Giants, Jets.
Actually, I am a capitalist at heart. I just think that the system is out of hand. Funny you mention communist utopia. In 1917 Russia, about 900 families owned virtually all of the wealth. The vast majority lived in crushing poverty. I guy named Lenin came along. The rest is history.
A significant part of his compensation is probably in stock options. That lessens the tax bite considerably.
I don't think one would need to watch tennis regularly to know who Pegula is. I find it odd anyone wouldn't know the owners
back to your question on CEO pay. Don't know how old you are so you might not have been aware that politicians have "set" pay for corporate executives. Back in the '90s democrats determined that CEO pay was out of line - too much - no matter the company's performance. They didn't like that CEOs of poor performing companies were making tons of money. So they decided to make income "performance based". So, the result was our current system where an executive will make a salary (that most of us will never achieve) and based the rest on either/and bonus and stock. The result is that today CEOs make even more than previously because they end up with what most might consider outrageous bonus and either options or restricted stock.
By the way, the average salary of a corporate CEO (2023) was about $898,000, according to google AI. As you know the actual earnings might be significantly higher.
Moral to the story....become a CEO
not necessarily. An option is just that, you have the right to buy x number of shares and a set price after vesting. Once you exercise the option, the income is taxed as ordinary income. If you don't exercise the option there is no tax, of course there would be no income either.
Why would you care who the NFL owners are? You can if you like, but life can be good without knowing that.
Life can be good without knowing most things but to post about the Bills paying Allen yet not knowing who's paying him is odd.
Stock options to buy what? How would that lower taxes even if it existed?
What Do NFL Players Pay in Taxes? - SmartAsset
Top NFL players lose more than 45% of their income in taxes. On top of federal and state taxes, they have to pay a "jock tax" to every state in which they...
smartasset.com
The owners just raise the season ticket price to pay for the high salaries. Fans continue to pay the never ending strategy. It's a vicious cycle. The owners never loose money because of TV contracts
Bills' Josh Allen agrees to 6-year extension with record-setting guarantee: reports
Josh Allen, fresh off an MVP campaign, just got paid as the Buffalo Bills announced a six-year extension, which reportedly is worth $330 million with $250 million guaranteed.www.foxnews.com
I have a master's and did OK career-wise. Allen will make as much for 1 game as I made in an entire career. Let's not get into Juan Soto. It isn't just sports, the rich continue to get richer and the vast majority of Americans are either stuck in place or going backwards.
Well it may be a bad idea but not for any of your reasons. let's unpack.
. Selling stock to pay the bill will kill the stock market. These are trillion dollar market market cap companies. Having these big boys sell a tiny portion of stock will have almost no impact. BTW Bezos sold $13 billion of his stock last year and no one noticed.
Furthermore if you saw my post it included a zero corporate income tax. Just curious what do you think would happen to the price of stocks with a zero corporate income tax. If you do the math a stock would need to up less than 1/4 of 1 % for someone to need to break even selling 4% to pay the tax. [96% of your holdings will be going up]
More math if the P:E ratio remains constant at 20 [much much higher for these tech companies] and earnings increase by 20% [elimination of the corporate income tax] the price of the stock should nearly double.
Capital leaving the country - Your taxed on your holdings. If they are US companies or your real estate is US you pay. i don't think any of these folks want to move their company from a zero tax market to a 25-30% market.
European countries have tried it. Two things here. Moving in Europe from UK to Spain is like New York or California to Florida or Texas. It is much easier. More importantly these European countries did it in addition to all their income taxes. This plan replaces the income taxes and the tax is on assets not income. US assets [you pay]
Finally, what is the alternative? DOGE is awesome BUT it doesn't get us there. Musk said today the GAO estimated we had $500 billion in WFA during Biden's term. Look at the pushback he is getting for firing people who don't go to their office? In those same 4 years we had almost $8,000 billion of additional debt. Solutions?
I suggest that whatever your opinon might be, there will be a counter argument that is not without some merit from a certain perspective. MY THOUGHT is that things have gone or are quickly getting out of control with the salaries being paid athletes and also CEO's. I had a patient a few years ago who was one of the top neurosurgeons in the country. He had to join a large hospital group practice and was then an in-house doctor. His annual salary was below one million per annum. And as a physician he is not allowed to join a union and use the power of a union to get better reimbursement for his services. So my point is that for some the accumulation of a huge amount of wealth and being paid massive reimbursement packages is fine and dandy, for others the door is closed. Maybe we should have a total free market for doctors, then if your son needs a top neurosurgeon, you can fork over a few million for his/her services!! I guess you could argue that he should have been a baseball player instead! Let's face it, there are a lot of mediocre athletes that are making huge bucks. When I think of what Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Johnny Unitas, Willie Mays, and other great athletes made - it is a joke. For Christ's sake, Carl Furillo had to work off-season as a steel worker to pay his bills. To repeat, the worst insult is that these are often mediocre athletes, not a Jackie Robinson or a Roberto Clemente. Of course there is always the argument that there careers could end quickly. True, but most would still be multi-millionaires. It's gone too far.
Couple thoughts See my response to ngerbuck. Keep your friggin Roberto Clemente card. Stepping over $1,000 dollar bills to pick up pennies. Don't know about in Model's era but there is absolutely no way a person with $100's of millions of dollars of hard assets can't borrow up to 30-40% of that. Inheritance taxes are a real challenge but whether the tax code is wealth or income it doesn't matter.
My belief is a simple one. We will need to collect more money. Those who think we can cut 2 trillion from the annual spending probably also think Ukraine has a chance to win. DOGE has in a backwards way made that point. The D's are defending the defenseless and now the R's are starting to get squeamish and what DOGE has found is a drop in the bucket of what we need.
So I say again what is the alternative?
We need explosive growth. How do you do that? Eliminate corporate taxes, and lower income taxes. The US economy would explode. When that happens the rich will get richer faster than the rest. Ask them to help pay the bill. I can almost guarantee their fortunes would increase much more than 4% per year.
It is billionaires paying hundred millionaires. If Allen doesn't get paid Pegula gets richer.
oops small detail nothing to see here. What percent do you think the top 900 families in the US control.
Funny, I too am a capitalist, and here I am advocating a wealth tax.
I believe income inequality could be our undoing [if we don't go broke first]
The structure of our economy will make it worse in the future.
We won't ever be able to cut enough spending. [though we should keep trying [DOGEING}
the money isn't in income it is in wealth
We obviously live in a very different worlds. I find it absolutely crazy that you would know who the owners of the Oklahoma City thunder, Seattle Seahawks, or Las Vegas golden knights are.
Why? They're the ones that have the financial stake in things.
Do you know who owns the Cowboys, Giants and Steelers? Do you know bad owners like who owns the Pirates? Do you know who moves the As out of Oakland? To each their own.
Three final thoughts
.We are spending $7 trillion per year. The US total income is $23 trillion, so in rough strokes we would need a 30% across the board income tax. We do have corporate income tax which contributes currently [surprisingly little in total but a lot to companies] so let's say we need a 25% across the board after deductions income tax. If you keep a progressive tax system that means effective tax rates of low to mid 30% for most folks a decent living. Those same folks probably have an effective rate in the mid to teens, so to get even close to a balance budget personal income tax would need to nearly DOUBLE.
On the other hand, total wealth in the US in $164 trillion. $7 trillion is only 4.3%. If you still had an income tax of around 10% that raises about $2 trillion so the requirement is $5 trillion of $163 so the wealth tax really needs to be closer to 3% not 4%.
IMO the biggest drawback is that a 3% on anything doesn't seem to high and in Washington DC they have an insatiable appetite for spending so it would be easy for them to say let's increase that from 3.0% to 3.25 % [$400 billion]. You would need legislative guardrails to protect against that.
Anyway, it does sound socialistic to talk about a wealth tax but IMO something like that is coming: The unrealized gains tax was discussed this last cycle.
We need more money even [with DOGE which must continue to give folks confidence their money isn't wasted]
We need dramatic growth - i can't overstate what a zero corporate income tax would do to keeping companies here or prevent their leaving and the positive effect on the stock market
Taxes at some level that everyone pays so all have skin in the game
"Go where the money is" quoting Willy Sutton.
.We are spending $7 trillion per year. The US total income is $23 trillion, so in rough strokes we would need a 30% across the board income tax. We do have corporate income tax which contributes currently [surprisingly little in total but a lot to companies] so let's say we need a 25% across the board after deductions income tax. If you keep a progressive tax system that means effective tax rates of low to mid 30% for most folks a decent living. Those same folks probably have an effective rate in the mid to teens, so to get even close to a balance budget personal income tax would need to nearly DOUBLE.
On the other hand, total wealth in the US in $164 trillion. $7 trillion is only 4.3%. If you still had an income tax of around 10% that raises about $2 trillion so the requirement is $5 trillion of $163 so the wealth tax really needs to be closer to 3% not 4%.
IMO the biggest drawback is that a 3% on anything doesn't seem to high and in Washington DC they have an insatiable appetite for spending so it would be easy for them to say let's increase that from 3.0% to 3.25 % [$400 billion]. You would need legislative guardrails to protect against that.
Anyway, it does sound socialistic to talk about a wealth tax but IMO something like that is coming: The unrealized gains tax was discussed this last cycle.
We need more money even [with DOGE which must continue to give folks confidence their money isn't wasted]
We need dramatic growth - i can't overstate what a zero corporate income tax would do to keeping companies here or prevent their leaving and the positive effect on the stock market
Taxes at some level that everyone pays so all have skin in the game
"Go where the money is" quoting Willy Sutton.
Guys like Josh Allen are absolutely worth it. People tune in just to watch him. Kids become Bills fans because of him. He moves the needle a ton on merchandise sales and ratings.
Guys you never heard of are making over 10 million a year. Kirk Cousins has made 288 million in his career which is good for 4th all time among NFL players. Have you ever says “I have to tune in to MNF, Kirk Cousins is playing tonight”.
Overall the fact that we all keep watching and buying NFL gear allows for these salaries.
Guys you never heard of are making over 10 million a year. Kirk Cousins has made 288 million in his career which is good for 4th all time among NFL players. Have you ever says “I have to tune in to MNF, Kirk Cousins is playing tonight”.
Overall the fact that we all keep watching and buying NFL gear allows for these salaries.
Yes, it’s fair. Why do you have a hard on for billionaires and CEO’s. I am pro innovation and rewarding people who take risks, but at some point these guys have enough money and it gives them the ability to influence the world to a degree they don’t deserve.
Also, 99% of CEO’s are just an other guy. There are a few that can transform or create major enterprises that others could not. We know their names. Most of the rest are way overpaid and dozens of others could do the job just the same. I worked at a Fortune 500 that had a bit of a legacy product that is now a much smaller and less relevant business than it was 20 years ago. We had a line of guys who kept rearranging deck chairs as the ship was sinking by being paid loads of money. They did nothing special.
If he starts a tv series showing his work, gets millions of viewers, sells a hundred thousand jerseys with his hospital’s name on it, gets thousands of patients to come to that hospital massively increasing it’s revenue……. Then he could be making $10-20 million per year.
It’s a completely different business plan and not comparable. Sports is about maximizing revenue. Hospitals and providing medical care are not. At least, didn’t used to be about money.
But with big pharma and conglomerate hospitals like UPMC that dynamic has certainly shifted.
Wait until he finds out that people dancing around on social media are making millions per year, or 10’s of millions in some cases. Talk about adding no value to society.
Or traders that are just doing day trading or currency markets that are just enriching their wealth. People all over the country are making boat loads of money by contributing nothing to society.
It’s pretty crazy. But it’s the free market.
I am just disappointed that my Onlyfans account hasn’t gone viral yet🧐
It's hard not to know who Jerry Jones is or that a Rooney (rule) owns the steelers, but IDK who owns the Giants or the Pirates or the As. Absolutely irrelevant information to my life. I also don't know who the CEO of most Fortune 100 companies are. Again, mostly irrelevant to my life.
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