It seems obvious now that Braedon Davis is our latest great light hope.

[donboy6499]

Why is his top potentially higher than Davis?

Yeah I’m not so sure this is the case.

Unreal.

This kid is a freshman, he just beat RANKED wrestlers BACK TO BACK and WON a tournament for Penn State at 125.

So far, we have seen people:

Claim he needs to redshirt
Insult his potential and claim Howard has more.
Tell him this is his last chance
Outright ignore his accomplishments
Compare Robert Howard to wrestlers he has nothing in common with
Demand an unreasonable finish to his season in order to justify his spot in the lineup

Are you even Penn State fans? This kid has earned his position and he doesn't need to do one damn thing different in March than anyone else.

It's time for some of you to stop with the Robbie posts. Davis is our 125.

"WHY CAN'T PENN STATE GET THAT 125 THAT COMES RIGHT IN AND AT LEAST COMPETES WITH BETTER GUYS?"

Penn State gets a 125 that unexpectedly (and yes, I know he has Big Board chops but we were all talking Robbie/McHenry around here until 10 days ago) is very competitive with good wrestlers.

"REDSHIRT HIM HE JUST ISN'T READY TO COMPETE"

 

[dbldoofus]

The Dalai Lama of Internet Forums has spoken. Kneel before him insolent fools and partake in his infinite wisdom. Again telling people how to behave and think. These are overbearing and undesirable qualities to possess.

 

[HikeNatParks]

Besides that year that he took 5th he was a huge dissappointment.

Wow. It’s not enough to have a generational team and set of coaches to follow and support for over a decade, maybe another. We need to look back and badmouth a young man, who, I’m pretty damn sure, worked as hard as he could to do as much as he could for his team. It’s too bad Jimmy G didn’t live up to the precious expectations out here in this virtual bubble of protection, where we get to talk tough and flaunt our wisdom. Even though none of us achieved what Jimmy did in high school and NCAA D1 wrestling. I mean, shame on JG for making grown men like us type words denigrating his effort and career, right?
Wrong. With so much to be thankful for in a sport we love, the only “disappointment” on this thread is with us. You’d think we were out in that cornfield.

 

[82bordeaux]

Im gonna guess this will be decided right after Davis’s 5 th comp date. If he goes after that, there’s a good chance he is our guy.

Would you consider 100%, good?

 

[Psubiomed]

This was a great thread which was obliterated by somebody pulling out the Jimmy Gullibon card.

Now the thread is a 3 alarm dumpster 🔥... come on people we are not Iowa, leave the dumpster fires where they belong: Iowa City and Piscataway.

 

[nittinsc]

I hope whomever goes post season has enough matches to fall under the NCAA qualification guidelines. Don't want to see anyone miss out cause the matches were too spread out.

Doesn't this only come into play if they don't place high enough at BIGs to get an automatic qualifier spot?

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Howard and others might see spot duty before that point but Davis is the only guy this year at 125 who has given any indication that he can enter the AA conversation.

I thought we heard (via JB) that Robbie won the wrestleoff, but that aside, 2 tournaments in I think it's clear 125 will be far from settled for a while.

Any talk of AA at this point from any of our guys is waaaay premature. One has to admit though going 8-0 as a true freshman against collegiate competition in the month of November is very encouraging. I also want to see McHenry a couple of times, hopefully soon.

I think Robbie will improve in the next month and a half and I suspect Cael will decide before the meat of the Big 10 schedule hits.

Given what we have seen so far, if there were no improvement from either wrestler, Davis looks like a qualifier for sure, and Robbie doesn't. It's still early for both guys.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

This was a great thread which was obliterated by somebody pulling out the Jimmy Gullibon card.

Now the thread is a 3 alarm dumpster 🔥... come on people we are not Iowa, leave the dumpster fires where they belong: Iowa City and Piscataway.

I'll own it :-(

 

[PAgeologist]

Doesn't this only come into play if they don't place high enough at BIGs to get an automatic qualifier spot?

I believe so. But with 125 being so wide open, who knows how the conference allocations will go. Cael hasn't had good luck for quite a while at 125. I'd hate to see the streak continue cause of a lack of matches.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Doesn't this only come into play if they don't place high enough at BIGs to get an automatic qualifier spot?

Yeah, but that’s a gamble if they’re on the bubble and don’t get an AQ spot. With more matches, you have a chance to increase your win%, rpi, get a coaches rank, etc and getting an at large is much easier if you stumble at conference

 

[McScoreley]

Jonny rain cloud but Berginc is like a 25-35 guy. Not expecting points at Ncaas at 125. If RH can put it back together. Maybe. But with what we have coming in this might be Davis’ last chance

Good news is you only need to be a 25-35 guy to score points at 125 with a good tournament. I'll take my chances with the true freshman who can knock off back to back Top 30 opponents basically 1-2 months into his college career.

 

[Ja1339]

Overall, this is fair, at least the first part.

Davis had a close win over a sophomore ranked around #30. He has yet to face a really quality opponent, so the brakes should be tapped a bit. However, Berginc is a tough kid and a good test for Davis. Davis passed that test, while showing some grit, toughness, and skill along the way. Better than most of us expected for a true frosh that wasn't a top 30 recruit. He's been a pleasant surprise so far, but to your point no one should expect a deep run at B1G or NCAA tourneys. Though at least Davis might be good enough to qualify for NCAAs.

Longer term, a spot for Davis in the lineup may depend on whether LL redshirts his first year and how long Nagao stays at 133. But there may be some avenues.

Bruce, I was thinking that Davis was a top 30 recruit, I seem to recall he was in the 20s rank in his class. I may be misremembering, anyone know for sure?

 

[McScoreley]

125 Last Year:
-Had 27/28 seed AA, that 27 seed started this year with 4 consecutive losses, twice by bonus
-Liam Cronin was the 3 seed
-Matt Ramos took a MD loss to DeAugustino and Anthony Molton, has since lost to a HS junior
-Anthony Noto took a L to Tucker Owens in the early season
-One of the top 125s this year (Figs) was in SV with McHenry last year

So yeah .... count me in for wanting to make sure we get a guy there.

 

[McScoreley]

Bruce, I was thinking that Davis was a top 30 recruit, I seem to recall he was in the 20s rank in his class. I may be misremembering, anyone know for sure?

He landed somewhere in the 50s for Willie I believe @smalls103

Good comparison would be Brock Mauller, I think he was somewhere in the 40s and was a true freshman AA at IMO a deeper weight (149 in 2019 which had Ashnault, Micah, AOC, Finesilver, Kolodzik)

 

[McScoreley]

I think the top guys at 125 will be known soon and it'll be less "anyone can win or AA"

Think it's Camacho and Noto at the top. Camacho looked awesome in free and just beat Ramos. I think Ramos, Figs (assuming full health), McKee (same story as Figs) are next tier. Ramos this might be blasphemous but beating Spencer Lee never made him the outright favorite this year. His big move mentality is how he beat Spencer but he was very close to never making it to Spencer in the first place. Similarly, McKee is now a 2xAA and if he's healthy, will be a problem.

Finally, I think the tier after is DeAugustino, Ayala, Barnett, Terukina types. DeAugustino being a former 4th place finisher, Barnett being a 2x AA (who never has his weight right to start the season) Ayala obviously is a huge talent and Terukina looked phenomenal against Barnett.

So yes, very long shot to predict Braeden will AA right now, there are solid wrestlers at 125 period. Doesn't change how I feel about Braeden since he's just getting started at PSU and that it works best for our lineup in the future linely.

 

[District four]

I would have gladly sacrificed my crappy wrestling career for a few hot evil women

I did

 

[a_mshaffer]

You may wait a long while if your criteria for a quality opponent is much higher than Berginc. Davis knocked off Berginc and Lujan back-to-back - that carries some weight this year where 125 is a complete sh*tshow. To wit:

• Ramos lost to a HS kid
• Brandon McCrone beat the crap out of the #4 ranked wrestler in the country (Ventresca). McCrone didn't come close to beating Lujan (lost 1-6)
• Kysen Tekurina just whipped #5 ranked Eric Barnett 14-3
• Journeyman Brandon Kaylor just beat Drake Ayala despite having 3 losses (Jett Strickenberger, Spencer Moore and a 0:29 second fall to Barnett) in his last 7 matches. His best win before Ayala in that stretch was a 5-4 decision over a D3 wrestler from Roanoke.

It's pretty obvious that the very top guys are probably Ramos, Camacho, Figueroa (who doesn't seem to wrestle), and Noto. And they are not all that good - certainly not a list you would consider National Champ quality. Maybe Spratley and Dean Peterson will join that list. Maybe Ayala, but he's a one-trick pony at this point with no mat game. Maybe Poulin? McKee? McKee is just as likely to beat them all as he is to lose to #30.

Everybody else, including Berginc, is in a mashup of 20 or so guys who could find themselves in the R12 with the right draw. You have a true freshman who just beat two of those guys back-to-back in his first two weeks of competition. I'd say that is a cause for optimism, not Debbie downer-ism.

It's the year of opportunity at 125 and it would be nice to have someone who has a shot to take advantage of that. Before the season, I thought it would be Robbie. After seeing him in person the first week, I was extremely pessimistic as he was MILES away from being that guy. Really no change in his 2nd week's performance. Maybe he can get back to near his potential but that is going to be a very long-term thing.

As Tikk pointed out, the coach's history suggests that they will push this right up to the max 5 events before they burn any RSs. So nothing is definitive until the second semester. But right now all signs point to Davis when that time comes.

In FS, Robbie defeated one of his teamates a year or so ago - was that Steen? Whomever it was, Robbie had no issue with getting the W. But as everyone is stating, there is something missing in his game right now.

 

[dicemen99]

I think the top guys at 125 will be known soon and it'll be less "anyone can win or AA"

Think it's Camacho and Noto at the top. Camacho looked awesome in free and just beat Ramos. I think Ramos, Figs (assuming full health), McKee (same story as Figs) are next tier. Ramos this might be blasphemous but beating Spencer Lee never made him the outright favorite this year. His big move mentality is how he beat Spencer but he was very close to never making it to Spencer in the first place. Similarly, McKee is now a 2xAA and if he's healthy, will be a problem.

Finally, I think the tier after is DeAugustino, Ayala, Barnett, Terukina types. DeAugustino being a former 4th place finisher, Barnett being a 2x AA (who never has his weight right to start the season) Ayala obviously is a huge talent and Terukina looked phenomenal against Barnett.

So yes, very long shot to predict Braeden will AA right now, there are solid wrestlers at 125 period. Doesn't change how I feel about Braeden since he's just getting started at PSU and that it works best for our lineup in the future linely.

I don't think anyone is predicting Braeden to AA right now. That would be pretty ridiculous, he'd probably be a 50/50 battle with a bunch of top 25 guys at this point.

But you just named only 9 guys above. Including Kysen Terukina, who I assume was not on your list before thrashing Barnett. He's a SR who is 0-4 in his NCAA career. I'd lean more towards regression to the mean, than Terukina having made a huge jump at this point. I'd probably add the possibility of Spratley (and that assumes a jump on his part), but even with those two, that's not a lot of "solid" podium threats - 10. Brackets work funny and I can pretty much guarantee you that a couple of guys not named already will end up on the podium.

So, if you can hang with the next tier of Ryan Miller, Diego Sotelo, Noah Surtin, and Jack Maida's, you've got a shot at making the blood round and maybe finding one of those favorable matchups due to an early upset or an injury default. In my mind, the only strides that Davis has to make is to get himself top 15ish, which doesn't look unattainable given the field.

 

[wrestlingfan22]

I don't think anyone is predicting Braeden to AA right now. That would be pretty ridiculous, he'd probably be a 50/50 battle with a bunch of top 25 guys at this point.

But you just named only 9 guys above. Including Kysen Terukina, who I assume was not on your list before thrashing Barnett. He's a SR who is 0-4 in his NCAA career. I'd lean more towards regression to the mean, than Terukina having made a huge jump at this point. I'd probably add the possibility of Spratley (and that assumes a jump on his part), but even with those two, that's not a lot of "solid" podium threats - 10. Brackets work funny and I can pretty much guarantee you that a couple of guys not named already will end up on the podium.

So, if you can hang with the next tier of Ryan Miller, Diego Sotelo, Noah Surtin, and Jack Maida's, you've got a shot at making the blood round and maybe finding one of those favorable matchups due to an early upset or an injury default. In my mind, the only strides that Davis has to make is to get himself top 15ish, which doesn't look unattainable given the field.

Speaking of Miller he is probably on the bench now as Gallagher beat him at Keystone, but a similar level talent. Also nobody has mentioned Ungar who made blood round last season. 125 has a large number of guys who could AA

 

[El-Jefe]

Speaking of Miller he is probably on the bench now as Gallagher beat him at Keystone, but a similar level talent. Also nobody has mentioned Ungar who made blood round last season. 125 has a large number of guys who could AA

Ungar is a tremendous example of the seas parting so he could walk thru. In consis he faced the 33, then the 24, then lost to the 28 in the blood round.

 

[82bordeaux]

He landed somewhere in the 50s for Willie I believe @smalls103

Good comparison would be Brock Mauller, I think he was somewhere in the 40s and was a true freshman AA at IMO a deeper weight (149 in 2019 which had Ashnault, Micah, AOC, Finesilver, Kolodzik)

Willie had him number 46 on his final Big Board.
He was trying to slide one to State College on the down low, so that they wouldn't bitch as much on GIA about our top 10 recruits. They'll have to explain a #46 beating Ayala.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Robbie is giving me bad flashback to the Altons. I feel badly for him and hope he can work his way through this funk.

"Great light hope". Extra points for that one... lol

 

[dicemen99]

Ungar is a tremendous example of the seas parting so he could walk thru. In consis he faced the 33, then the 24, then lost to the 28 in the blood round.

He's also a tremendous example of a potential AA candidate who is extremely beatable. Just about guaranteeing you are in a one-score match and you could be facing him in the R16 or better. What more can you ask for?

 

[McScoreley]

He's also a tremendous example of a potential AA candidate who is extremely beatable. Just about guaranteeing you are in a one-score match and you could be facing him in the R16 or better. What more can you ask for?

Brackets are weird:

Beard got 18, 31 then an injured 13 for his path to AA in 2021. It just works out that way sometimes. Hell he had 26 seed to make the semis (Woodley) where a 6 seed waited (Nino) He could have made the finals as a 15 seed with the best seed he faces being a 6.

If Schultz didn't get taken to his back by a funky Pentz, Beard likely loses that one and then he has Jack Brown, Cam Caffey who throttled him 2 weeks earlier and then Jacob Warner to AA and he's likely R16 - R12 at best.

 

[El-Jefe]

He's also a tremendous example of a potential AA candidate who is extremely beatable. Just about guaranteeing you are in a one-score match and you could be facing him in the R16 or better. What more can you ask for?

Nobody at PSU should be thinking OMG we can't place because Ungar is ahead of us.

 

[JOESTROSSER]

I don't think anyone is predicting Braeden to AA right now. That would be pretty ridiculous, he'd probably be a 50/50 battle with a bunch of top 25 guys at this point.

But you just named only 9 guys above. Including Kysen Terukina, who I assume was not on your list before thrashing Barnett. He's a SR who is 0-4 in his NCAA career. I'd lean more towards regression to the mean, than Terukina having made a huge jump at this point. I'd probably add the possibility of Spratley (and that assumes a jump on his part), but even with those two, that's not a lot of "solid" podium threats - 10. Brackets work funny and I can pretty much guarantee you that a couple of guys not named already will end up on the podium.

So, if you can hang with the next tier of Ryan Miller, Diego Sotelo, Noah Surtin, and Jack Maida's, you've got a shot at making the blood round and maybe finding one of those favorable matchups due to an early upset or an injury default. In my mind, the only strides that Davis has to make is to get himself top 15ish, which doesn't look unattainable given the field.

At this point, which is way too early, I'm seeing rd 12, rd 16 in my cloudy crystal ball. I'm really high on his potential.

 

[mcpat]

At this point, which is way too early, I'm seeing rd 12, rd 16 in my cloudy chrystal ball. I'm really high on his potential.

Is that a small disco ball hanging from the mirror of your Chrysler LeBaron?

 

[wrestlingfan22]

I agree with the general board sentiment that this is going to be a very open 125 with some extreme bracket funkiness. I think 125 is notable for this because so many guys have issues making the weight/staying healthy so lower seeds will always be dangerous/possibly under ranked.

 

[JOESTROSSER]

Is that a small disco ball hanging from the mirror of your Chrysler LeBaron?

LOL, good one. I'll remove the h.

 

[Raw Daddy]

I mean, is his ceiling potentially higher? Based on what?

Clay 2023-2024 season. Only thing being discussed. As a true freshman he went 2-2 at nationals only losing to AAs. I feel like you gotta give that guy a shot to work himself back in and burning a shirt for Davis seems totally unnecessary to me with the other 9 weights. It's no knock on Davis or his November results, that's awesome but let's slow down.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

Clay 2023-2024 season. Only thing being discussed. As a true freshman he went 2-2 at nationals only losing to AAs. I feel like you gotta give that guy a shot to work himself back in and burning a shirt for Davis seems totally unnecessary to me with the other 9 weights. It's no knock on Davis or his November results, that's awesome but let's slow down.

I think the thing to me, and this isn’t Robbie’s fault, is that it seems extreeeeeemely improbable that someone whose shoulder is held together with duct tape and hasn’t been on a mat consistently for 2 years could ever really get back to even the level he was at, less yet in a 5 month span.

As for Davis, I just don’t think the redshirt year is all that valuable when you look at A) how wide open the weight is B) Penn State’s future depth chart and C) the way the portal is used to fill any necessary lineup gaps.

Just my two cents

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I think the thing to me, and this isn’t Robbie’s fault, is that it seems extreeeeeemely improbable that someone whose shoulder is held together with duct tape and hasn’t been on a mat consistently for 2 years could ever really get back to even the level he was at, less yet in a 5 month span.

As for Davis, I just don’t think the redshirt year is all that valuable when you look at A) how wide open the weight is B) Penn State’s future depth chart and C) the way the portal is used to fill any necessary lineup gaps.

Just my two cents

Exactly re: the depth chart. Believe it or not - even more cavalry is coming at alot of weights, especially down low.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Bruce, I was thinking that Davis was a top 30 recruit, I seem to recall he was in the 20s rank in his class. I may be misremembering, anyone know for sure?

When Davis committed to PSU in Dec 2021, Flo had him #36 in the 2023 class. Flo's final ranking for the 2023 class had Davis #42. I didn't check his ranking at the other recruiting services.

 

[McScoreley]

Willie had Braeden Top 10 at one point I believe and he dropped a bit

 

[KSLion]

If Cael says Howard is our starter then I will tell anyone that he should be the starter.

Let's give Howard another month or so to shake off the effects of two years' rust and recuperation, then see what he's looking like versus the competition, first inside the room, then, maybe, outside-. But, if the injury still won't let him go 100%, it's time to take an honest look at where things stand.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

I think there’s also a general want for Robbie to be the guy because he seems like a good kid and it would be a great story.

But sometimes (often times) the sport of wrestling does not give a damn for good stories.

 

[tullfan68]

I will be fine with whomever Cael sends at 125!!

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I will be fine with whomever Cael sends at 125!!

Exactly. Some act like the team is coached by hot headed twin monkeys who just react and throw sh_t against the wall hoping something sticks. No need to have a doubt in Cael....unless you have a plan? Do you have a plan?

 

[Flying_Tiger]

One thing is for sure, 125 will be better this year.

 

[LorenzoFan]

There are early season tournaments all over the place and winning one or not is not a predictor of greatness. Lets see how the lads do moving forward.