John Ziegler calls out Scott Paterno and Dave Jones on worldwide TV....
- Thread starter Ephrata Lion
- Start date
Only 47 minutes long! I see JZ is learning to be more concise, usually he passes the 60 minute mark. LOL. 
Well we all got a glimpse into Joe's mental condition his last few years. Even if you want to narrow that down further,watch his bowl game press conferences or listen to conference calls just a few weeks prior to his GJ testimony. Joe was clearly not coaching for awhile.
I have come to the belief that Joe's testimony and interviews are almost completely unreliable because of this.
Unfortunately it doesn't have to be admissible in the court of public opinion. With his GJ testimony the dye was cast.
His testimony cannot be used by the prosecution because he can't be cross examined. My point is that many people rely on Joe's testimony to corroborate Mike or even hang Joe by his own words. I don't think anyone should put much weight into what Joe said about this whole mess. It was obvious that his mental condition was poor and he clearly didn't recall certain aspects.
As for other evidence, I have no clue what the prosecution or defense have. All I know is that based on what has been made public, the OAG's case is weak at best.
Lundy dies the oag at this point owe any more to the public? The defense doesn't... Owe anything either ... That's why we have to get to court... The defense is aware of oaf materials. They don't seem to take it lightly in my opinion again watching the actions and my biased opinion
If they start putting idiots in cages, you will be the first one in.
And I appreciate your willingness to discuss. I am just going by what I was able to observe from a distance. My point is only that Joe didn't appear to be in good shape that entire year. From the pre-season Big Ten event, to press conferences in season, bowl game press conference, conference calls. Going into that bowl game, there was tons of speculation about Joe retiring and hinting at various medical conditions. There may have not been any issues, but he sure came across as incoherent. Maybe that cleared up a few weeks later when he testified.
My comment here isn't about Mike in any way. You know I have questioned plenty there. My point is simply that relying on Joe's testimony and interviews is problematic.
I agree, this needs to go to court to get more of the true story. Even then, I am not confident we get the full picture.
What Ziegler never seems to grasp is that even if JS never got a "100% unbiased fair trial" the mountain of evidence against him can still show he is guilty. I am pretty certain the monsters on trial at Nuremberg never got a fair trial under the conditions Ziegler defines as fair. It is also absolutely certain they were guilty.
Lundy, it my personal opinion that most of what people thought was Joe slipping was really Joe's hearing going. So mnay of his actions reminded me of someone that just couldn't hear well enough to interact in those type of settings.
I have my own thoughts on MM in general from my interactions with him but his recollection of things has never changed from what he told a lot of people in 2001.
Really? Mike "told a lot of people" in 2001 that he was certain that Sandusky was raping a child? And not one of those people did a damn thing about it?
Except that there isn't a mountain of evidence or anything close to it. The entire case is built on McQueary and Aaron Fisher, both of which have major credibility issues. Allan Myers defended Sandusky, the janitor episode was a total farce and Matt Sandusky fought in court to allow his kids visitation rights to see Sandusky AFTER he was arrested before flipping to get his pay day. Then there is the cop lying on the stand. The leaked grand jury presentment full of fiction that got the nation in an uproar. The case never got an honest look but Andrew Shubin did get very rich off his 9 clients.
I think I mostly agree with him aside from things excluding Sandusky but he is almost frighteningly insane.
I agree. I think he's guilt, JS, of something. But the way it unfolded left a lot of room open for spurious claims that were more about money than justice.
More troubling, as a PSU and Paterno fan, is that the "slam dunk" trial added to the "how could Joe not know" and "institutional coverup" notions. If JS is guilty, it wasn't and isn't that simple.
Well in the fall of 2010 he was calling his starting QB "Blocker" when his last name was Bolden. And Paterno was dead 1 year from his GJ testimony so it is reasonable to conclude that he probably wasn't as sharp as he once was and that his health issues probably went a little bit beyond just his hearing.
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Dukie. How in the world would David Jones have known all the details about the Victim 2 shower incident three full months before the AG's office knew about it?
1.) Who do you think his "source of the Victim 2 incident" was in August 2010?
2.) Who would have given him a "very graphic account of the shower scene" in "August 2010"?
The AG's Office never received the Victim 2 shower incident tip until November 4, 2010.
Dave Jones stares in the toilet after he uses it, and the whole time it's flushing.
Now that is an interesting one...and Mike knows the answer, it was long before 2010 he learned of the incident along with several other members of the media...
On a related note several people have escaped attention in this whole saga, some have stayed silent while others have blatantly lied...perhaps it is one of these folks who told Jones.
Anyway, it will come out in the wash...just remember, a lot going on in discovery, depositions etc.
On a related note several people have escaped attention in this whole saga, some have stayed silent while others have blatantly lied...perhaps it is one of these folks who told Jones.
Anyway, it will come out in the wash...just remember, a lot going on in discovery, depositions etc.
Who exactly and what specifically did they know of the 2001 incident? As some have noted, there may have been confusion over the incident (thinking it was 1998)
Not according to Jones. He specifically stated twice he "was told by a source of the Victim 2 incident in August 2010" of "a very graphic account of the Victim 2 shower scene".
Pretty hard to mix that up with 1998. Which if true, leads to a WHOLE BUNCH of further questions.
Doubt Jones would go on the record with that if it wasn't true. If he is lying, his journalistic credibility is definitively destroyed forever. If he is telling the truth, then either the Moulton Report was fudged to protect Corbett, or Corbett's people were successful in pulling the wool over Moulton's eyes.
This case stinks more than any case in the History of Modern Man.
As I recall I think it was around August 2010 when a well known poster on FOS posted a cryptic "brace yourselves" post that was alluding to the Sandusky investigation. The poster didn't say specifically what the post
concerned but the thread that followed ultimately made clear it involved Sandusky and possible inappropriate behavior with kids. I seem to recall seeing chatter on BWI that same day about posts being erased that alluded to the same issue, but I'm not as certain since I spent more time on FOS at the time. People have claimed Jones checks out the boards for information so he could have gotten wind of something from the FOS board.
concerned but the thread that followed ultimately made clear it involved Sandusky and possible inappropriate behavior with kids. I seem to recall seeing chatter on BWI that same day about posts being erased that alluded to the same issue, but I'm not as certain since I spent more time on FOS at the time. People have claimed Jones checks out the boards for information so he could have gotten wind of something from the FOS board.
Note that according to Jay in his book, Joe quit drinking entirely in 2011 sometime prior to the season, and that would be not too long after those press conferences and calls. Just sayin'.
Do you remember that poster's Screen Name? I wonder if it was Jones himself? If it was, and he sat on that info to protect Corbett's election campaign, that's News. According to Moulton, the AG's office never found out about Victim 2 till November 4, 2010. Someone is telling some big fibs.
I don't believe for a second that the OAG/CC DA didn't know about V2/MM until 11/10. I think Dave Jones used to play basketball, etc. with Frank Fina and other OAG folks at the YMCA or something along those lines. That's supposedly how Jones first heard about the V2/MM 2001 incident in 8/10.
It's part of Fina's MO...leak confidential investigation/GJ material to the press.
The poster was not Jones and no specifics about victim 2 or what the investigation was about were provided by the original poster on by anyone who posted in the thread. I'm pretty sure similar information made its way to the McAnsrew/BWI board the same day from other posters so enough information was out there for people to know something was up. Other posters in the thread provided enough clues to have a general idea that the issue involved Sandusky and possible inappropriate behavior with kids. Jones could have gotten wind of the posts and done some digging to find out about the incident.
I recall seeing that as well. But go back to the beginning. Mike saw "something" in 2001. The police had to ferret him out almost 10 years later. This is not someone who witnessed "rape".
I remember seeing message board chatter about it, and there were enough clues to figure out what it was about. I don't remember who posted it originally, or on which board. However I also remember that given the severity of the accusations, many posters went back and edited or deleted their posts as to not spread the unconfirmed rumor. It didn't stick around on the boards for long so there were likely very few that saw it.
I remember seeing message board chatter about it, and there were enough clues to figure out what it was about. I don't remember who posted it originally, or on which board. However I also remember that given the severity of the accusations, many posters went back and edited or deleted their posts as to not spread the unconfirmed rumor. It didn't stick around on the boards for long so there were likely very few that saw it.
Man, I agree with you one billion percent. So why is Moulton playing us all for fools in trying to make us believe that the first time the AG heard of it was that November 3, 2010 Email "tip" to Stacy Parks Miller.
If you mean Dukie, Dukie might have been leaking some info, but I doubt even the scum at OAG would have told him anything was actually going down. He for good reason couldn't have been trusted because Mike was his brother.
The actual leak that we'd better get ready to "brace ourselves" all the way back three full months before the November 3 "tip" had to come from another source.
Jones may not have been the poster, but Scott's tweets, combined with Jones's own words pretty much confirms that Jones was on the inside, and has some splainen to do..
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Concerning the "brace yourselves" post or it's source, I agree.
By the way, I just saw your post from the other day. You have my deepest condolences. And my prayers are with you and your Family.
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