Josh McKenzie visiting PSU this weekend

[El-Jefe]

Nick Suriano's teammate at Bergen Catholic, ranked #14 nationally at 182. The top SO and 4th highest ranked non-senior at the weight ...

But he's not coming for wrestling. Apparently he's the #1 football prospect in NJ for 2019.

Captain Obvious says we can scratch him as a potential future 197 recruit.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Nick Suriano's teammate at Bergen Catholic, ranked #14 nationally at 182. The top SO and 4th highest ranked non-senior at the weight ...

But he's not coming for wrestling. Apparently he's the #1 football prospect in NJ for 2019.

Captain Obvious says we can scratch him as a potential future 197 recruit.

I vaguely remember discussing this Josh McKenzie article here on the board: http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/the_engineering_of_15_year_old_josh_mckenzie.html

 

[PSU Mike]

I vaguely remember discussing this Josh McKenzie article here on the board: http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/the_engineering_of_15_year_old_josh_mckenzie.html

Makes me ill.

 

[hlstone]

Makes me ill.

What about it makes you ill?

 

[FineMaterial]

I vaguely remember discussing this Josh McKenzie article here on the board: http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/09/the_engineering_of_15_year_old_josh_mckenzie.html

So? Didn't you all get articles like this written about you too?
Seriously, a dose of Cael might do this guy some good.

 

[hlstone]

My kid is in middle of this stuff now. I have been contacted by 5 different club teams and a private high school wanting her to join. I had college coaches asking about her and she is 11. She did switch club teams because she wanted to play with her friends, but she will not switch schools.

 

[hlstone]

So? Didn't you all get articles like this written about you too?
Seriously, a dose of Cael might do this guy some good.

Every coach I met at PSU was an academics first type of coach. I did not go to PSU, but I love the place and every one of the coaches that I have met.

 

[El-Jefe]

So? Didn't you all get articles like this written about you too?
Seriously, a dose of Cael might do this guy some good.

What exactly are you trying to say with this comment?

 

[CropDuster507]

After seeing him shoot a video to tell everyone what HS he was picking, I was cheering against him, which I honestly hate doing.

That other NJ article pretty much pushed me to the furthest I could be on the cheering against side. As a teacher, I couldn't imagine dealing with that.

 

[PSU Mike]

What about it makes you ill?

It's overmanaged toward the wrong goal, and the kid won't fully understand for a long time.

 

[hlstone]

It's overmanaged toward the wrong goal, and the kid won't fully understand for a long time.

Like having a great grade point avg?

 

[Dogwelder]

It's overmanaged toward the wrong goal, and the kid won't fully understand for a long time.

A news reporter can spin a story every which way. I'd worry about being the writer's pawn if I let myself form a judgment from this measly article.

If we just look at the article's facts, and not its adjectives and other spin, we see that (1) the kid trains hard, and (2) the kid says he likes training hard, and (3) the kid's guardian spent a lot of money on coaches, and (4) the money spent on coaches could have instead been saved for college tuition, and (5) the kid repeated the 8th grade. Out of those 5 facts, (1), (2), and (3) are completely positive facts. (5) (repeat grade) is common enough. Only (4) (spend college fund) is the least bit unusual, and who would I be to tell a family how to spend/invest their money, as long as it isn't on illegal drugs or something bad.

People have to decide whether to chase their dreams all the time. For rich people, it's easy to chase their dreams. For middle-class families, the decision is harder and more poignant. As a data point, Tank had to decide whether to work for more money or to keep training for the Olympics and World Championships.

Why can't Josh's family similarly decide to invest their money in the kid's dream? If Josh and his brother end up with no sports scholarships, and have very little college money, then they can still go to a cheaper college. If they didn't give it their all with the extra coaching (that rich kids get without thinking about it), then Josh and his brother might always wonder whether that lack of coaching was their downfall, and whether they should have gone "all in".

And I know somebody might claim that the dream is not the kid's dream but is the uncle's dream. Well, I say just ask the kid. I'm pretty sure he's going to say it's his dream. We can't go around telling people that we know what's in their hearts better than they do because we read an article about them.

 

[Brian LB-U]

After seeing him shoot a video to tell everyone what HS he was picking, I was cheering against him, which I honestly hate doing.

Nah, he was just an innocent, clueless impressionable 15-year-old boy.

 

[PSU Mike]

Like having a great grade point avg?

With a dozen tutors.

 

[PSU Mike]

A news reporter can spin a story every which way. I'd worry about being the writer's pawn if I let myself form a judgment from this measly article.

If we just look at the article's facts, and not its adjectives and other spin, we see that (1) the kid trains hard, and (2) the kid says he likes training hard, and (3) the kid's guardian spent a lot of money on coaches, and (4) the money spent on coaches could have instead been saved for college tuition, and (5) the kid repeated the 8th grade. Out of those 5 facts, (1), (2), and (3) are completely positive facts. (5) (repeat grade) is common enough. Only (4) (spend college fund) is the least bit unusual, and who would I be to tell a family how to spend/invest their money, as long as it isn't on illegal drugs or something bad.

People have to decide whether to chase their dreams all the time. For rich people, it's easy to chase their dreams. For middle-class families, the decision is harder and more poignant. As a data point, Tank had to decide whether to work for more money or to keep training for the Olympics and World Championships.

Why can't Josh's family similarly decide to invest their money in the kid's dream? If Josh and his brother end up with no sports scholarships, and have very little college money, then they can still go to a cheaper college. If they didn't give it their all with the extra coaching (that rich kids get without thinking about it), then Josh and his brother might always wonder whether that lack of coaching was their downfall, and whether they should have gone "all in".

And I know somebody might claim that the dream is not the kid's dream but is the uncle's dream. Well, I say just ask the kid. I'm pretty sure he's going to say it's his dream. We can't go around telling people that we know what's in their hearts better than they do because we read an article about them.

If it takes you that long to defend it, either you're reaching or it's hard to defend.

 

[hlstone]

With a dozen tutors.

I did not read that he has a dozen tutors. The kid is working hard and his uncle is supporting him.

I may be a bit defensive about this because, I hear crap about my kid and it pisses me off. When she wakes me up at 7am on Saturdays, and asks if I could take her to the field and shoot balls at her, when she asks if she could take the dog for an hour walk, when she asks to go play ping-pong, when she asks to do Yoga lessons, I say yes. Some kids have that drive. Her goal is to play for PSU then to play for the USA in 2028. Not my goal, her goal. Do I need to tell you about my niece, who is #1 in her sophomore class and an excellent ballerina? Her goal is to attend PSU and be on the dance squad. The only thing I read in the article that was disturbing was the hold the kid back in 8th grade. To be honest, I thought about it, and discussed it with my kid, she said that it was not going to happen.

 

[Dogwelder]

If it takes you that long to defend it, either you're reaching or it's hard to defend.

Huh?

 

[hlstone]

Huh?

I thought the same thing Dog.

 

[PSU Mike]

I did not read that he has a dozen tutors. The kid is working hard and his uncle is supporting him.

I may be a bit defensive about this because, I hear crap about my kid and it pisses me off. When she wakes me up at 7am on Saturdays, and asks if I could take her to the field and shoot balls at her, when she asks if she could take the dog for an hour walk, when she asks to go play ping-pong, when she asks to do Yoga lessons, I say yes. Some kids have that drive. Her goal is to play for PSU then to play for the USA in 2028. Not my goal, her goal. Do I need to tell you about my niece, who is #1 in her sophomore class and an excellent ballerina? Her goal is to attend PSU and be on the dance squad. The only thing I read in the article that was disturbing was the hold the kid back in 8th grade. To be honest, I thought about it, and discussed it with my kid, she said that it was not going to happen.

Hey, I like you from what you write on here, and trust you're hitting the right balance. Just our opinions differ.

You likened the result of his performance training to getting good grades. So I drew the parallel between having 10 trainers (from the article) to having a dozen tutors.

The truth is training that hard in 8th grade has little correlation with being able to hit a physical peak at 20, hence my original comment about targeting the wrong goal. Skills training is a little fuzzier, and depends on the sport. Wrestling certainly seems to takes lot of training on skills for example.

 

[PSU Mike]

Huh?

Our opinions differ and that's okay. I admit there are some kids mature to make this decision, but not many. And for those that are mature enough, there is still a reasonably high chance their advisors either don't realize the net effect of the high training level, or don't convey it to the kid accurately.

 

[Dogwelder]

The truth is training that hard in 8th grade has little correlation with being able to hit a physical peak at 20, hence my original comment about targeting the wrong goal. Skills training is a little fuzzier, and depends on the sport. Wrestling certainly seems to takes lot of training on skills for example.

That's a good point, Mike. Thank you for clarifying.

Your point, if generalized and broadened, concerns me too. Every single activity is becoming like gymnastics, it seems, in which young kids have to overtrain and over specialize and be overly mature (compared to our traditional image of kids) in order to gain admission to the top teaching at the next level. The result is that we're selecting for obedient hard workers in everything, and the creative, individualistic, multi-talented kid has to suppress himself and conform or miss out on the benefits that would have been available to him decades ago.

Edit: and my rant relates to your point because many activities are not actually like gymnastics, and that early overwork is not necessary or even helpful to a superior adult competitor, except that the overwork is convenient to schools/coaches because the overwork shows "who really wants it."

 

[Cali_Nittany]

I'm impressed that this kid is doing 2 sports. I don't know if it's different back east but here in Cali it seems there is a lot of pressure for the top athletic kids to focus on one sport year around.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I'm impressed that this kid is doing 2 sports. I don't know if it's different back east but here in Cali it seems there is a lot of pressure for the top athletic kids to focus on one sport year around.

It's hard to generalize. There is pressure from coaches (mostly non-high school) to focus on only one sport. There's also pressure from some parents, who are trying to maximize the scholarship potential.

That said, elite athletes are just that, and for the most part what makes them elite enables them to excel in most sports. Some of them want to play with their friends in high school, in multiple sports. I know of many examples of PSU athletes, or kids in my area, where they stop playing travel/tournament sports in all but their specialized sport, but still participate in 2 or 3 sports in high school. On the flip side, I know of probably as many examples of PSU athletes, or kids in my area, that stop participating in any sport beside that which they specialize in, either when they enter high school, or by their sophomore or junior year in high school.

The pressure you speak of is there, but each kid has their own way of responding to or handling it.

 

[dicemen99]

In regards to McKenzie as a wrestling recruit, yes, he is a beast on the football field - a man among boys. But he is on the shorter side, a fact acknowledges in this article (or another one I read, not taking the time to reread the one linked).

Probably going to try to make it as a D1 football player as a RB and by the time he is a senior - well, there are a ton of great athletes that develop at that position across the country. The pool will be really deep, who knows how elite he will be considered by the time he gets to college.

Obviously football is his love, but who knows what could happen in a couple of years. An athlete that elite can go far in D1 college wrestling.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Lots of money to be made in football.../.just saying.

 

[El-Jefe]

At least he wasn't on the sideline for his nearest D1 college team, to see that bloodbath. Woof.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

In regards to McKenzie as a wrestling recruit, yes, he is a beast on the football field - a man among boys. But he is on the shorter side, a fact acknowledges in this article (or another one I read, not taking the time to reread the one linked).

Probably going to try to make it as a D1 football player as a RB and by the time he is a senior - well, there are a ton of great athletes that develop at that position across the country. The pool will be really deep, who knows how elite he will be considered by the time he gets to college.

Obviously football is his love, but who knows what could happen in a couple of years. An athlete that elite can go far in D1 college wrestling.

Lack of height isn't a big deal for an RB. In fact, a short, powerful build can be advantageous for the position.

 

[dicemen99]

Lack of height isn't a big deal for an RB. In fact, a short, powerful build can be advantageous for the position.

Yes, I know. That's why I said he was going to have to be a RB (or a CB, but he looks too thick, too young to be a CB).

The point is that there are a TON of explosive RBs around the country and he may not look nearly as elite on the next level as a D1 RB as he would in a singlet.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Every coach I met at PSU was an academics first type of coach. I did not go to PSU, but I love the place and every one of the coaches that I have met.

histone, your posts in this thread are on target, IMHO.

as you recall, I introduced your daughter, your wife, and you to Char (PSU's Field Hockey coach). Part of the way I got to know Char is that she was really good friends while a PSU student with a current friend of mine. My friend remains very good friends with Char.

I was talking to my friend a few years ago about why was it that PSU always has good field hockey teams, but that they rarely get the elite PA field hockey players. Their response was that Char had told them several times that most good coaches can spot talent, but the first thing Char asks when talking to HS coaches, or potential recruits, was about the academics of prospects she was interested in, as she didn't want to waste time with kids that could not get past PSU admissions, or could have academic problems while at PSU.

If your daughter continues to focus on her GPA, and also continues to be a great athlete, her odds of being a PSU student athlete will continue to increase.

 

[El-Jefe]

This never gets old:

 

[hlstone]

histone, your posts in this thread are on target, IMHO.

as you recall, I introduced your daughter, your wife, and you to Char (PSU's Field Hockey coach). Part of the way I got to know Char is that she was really good friends while a PSU student with a current friend of mine. My friend remains very good friends with Char.

I was talking to my friend a few years ago about why was it that PSU always has good field hockey teams, but that they rarely get the elite PA field hockey players. Their response was that Char had told them several times that most good coaches can spot talent, but the first thing Char asks when talking to HS coaches, or potential recruits, was about the academics of prospects she was interested in, as she didn't want to waste time with kids that could not get past PSU admissions, or could have academic problems while at PSU.

If your daughter continues to focus on her GPA, and also continues to be a great athlete, her odds of being a PSU student athlete will continue to increase.

Thank you Tom,
Of course I remember you introducing us to Char, she is a wonderful coach and person. Before the B/W game, I called the Field Hockey office to ask if I could show my kid the FH facilities. I thought it would be good to show her what could happen if she continued to work hard. When I called to ask, the lady at the other end was nice and told me that the team was playing their Alumni game that day and said my kid could come down on the field after the game.
I asked if the coach would be ok with that?
She responded that she was the coach.

 

[jtothemfp]

good thread