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Just The Facts About Joe Paterno

Right. McQueary clarified Paterno's inquiry was whether he was ok emotionally.

Testimony at 7/29/2013 prelimanry hearing, at 51.
http://www.dauphincounty.org/government/Court-Departments/Curley-Schultz-Spanier/Documents/July 29, 2013 Preliminary Hearing Transcript 1 of 2.PDF

Q. Okay. You described last time having a
meeting with him where he asked if you were okay.
A. Yes, very informally before like a staff
meeting he said, hey, do you need to talk to
anyone, are you okay, is there anything I can do
for you.

Let me make sure I'm clear on this. It
was emotionally and psychologically personally
for me. It was not, are you okay with how this
has been handled. I hope I'm clear on that.

That's just another copout by McQueary. If someone asks you;

Do you need to talk to anyone?

Are you okay?

Is there anything I can do for you?


Even if you think he is only talking about your well being, this is a perfect time to mention that you're upset that nothing appears to have happened to Sandusky, you know because I told you he was having sex with a child. Why wasn't he arrested?
 
I'd like to ask you all a very honest, sincere, question. Because it's something I personally have been struggling with every time I hear "Paterno should have done more" pertaining to the McQueary incident.

Hypothetically if McQueary would have told Paterno everything he supposedly saw and then added (and this is the hypothetical part) "I'm pretty sure it was one of your grandchildren Coach Paterno". Do you think Coach Paterno would have done more?

See this is something I ask myself all the time. Because that's the way I believe it should of been handled. As if it was your own child that was supposedly in that shower with that monster. That's what I struggle with when I hear the statement "Paterno should have done more" because I agree.
 
Here are some other interesting facts & statistics that may provide clearer context for this incident:

Fact: Last year 42,000 calls to the PA hotline for reporting suspected child abuse went unanswered and unreturned. 42,000.
Translated into more manageable terms, yesterday 115 people in Pennsylvania tried to report an incident of suspected abuse but failed because the commonwealth simply didn't answer their calls. That will happen again today, tomorrow, the next day, and every day for the rest of the year.

Fact: After receiving one second-hand report of suspected abuse of a single child, Joe Paterno successfully reported the incident to 2 officials and then ensured that an investigation was conducted.
 
I'd like to ask you all a very honest, sincere, question. Because it's something I personally have been struggling with every time I hear "Paterno should have done more" pertaining to the McQueary incident.

Hypothetically if McQueary would have told Paterno everything he supposedly saw and then added (and this is the hypothetical part) "I'm pretty sure it was one of your grandchildren Coach Paterno". Do you think Coach Paterno would have done more?

See this is something I ask myself all the time. Because that's the way I believe it should of been handled. As if it was your own child that was supposedly in that shower with that monster. That's what I struggle with when I hear the statement "Paterno should have done more" because I agree.

Please indicate What is "more"? Also, Mike didn't see JS with Joes grandchild. Please deal in facts.
 
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I'd like to ask you all a very honest, sincere, question. Because it's something I personally have been struggling with every time I hear "Paterno should have done more" pertaining to the McQueary incident.

Hypothetically if McQueary would have told Paterno everything he supposedly saw and then added (and this is the hypothetical part) "I'm pretty sure it was one of your grandchildren Coach Paterno". Do you think Coach Paterno would have done more?

See this is something I ask myself all the time. Because that's the way I believe it should of been handled. As if it was your own child that was supposedly in that shower with that monster. That's what I struggle with when I hear the statement "Paterno should have done more" because I agree.

Which is exactly why I don't believe that MM told Joe about anything more than horseplay. You are superimposing today's knowledge of him being a monster on the 2001 situation. You are implying that Joe knew JS was a monster and didn't care about the teen.

If it was one of his grandchildren, I suspect he would have called his kids and asked why in the hell they aren't watching their own kids. But since it wasn't one of his grandkids, that call is really impossible.
 
I'd like to ask you all a very honest, sincere, question. Because it's something I personally have been struggling with every time I hear "Paterno should have done more" pertaining to the McQueary incident.

Hypothetically if McQueary would have told Paterno everything he supposedly saw and then added (and this is the hypothetical part) "I'm pretty sure it was one of your grandchildren Coach Paterno". Do you think Coach Paterno would have done more?

See this is something I ask myself all the time. Because that's the way I believe it should of been handled. As if it was your own child that was supposedly in that shower with that monster. That's what I struggle with when I hear the statement "Paterno should have done more" because I agree.
It's interesting that you would ask such a question because Joe's grandchildren were at Sandusky's home on occasion without supervision after the 2001 incident.
 
Which is exactly why I don't believe that MM told Joe about anything more than horseplay. You are superimposing today's knowledge of him being a monster on the 2001 situation. You are implying that Joe knew JS was a monster and didn't care about the teen.

If it was one of his grandchildren, I suspect he would have called his kids and asked why in the hell they aren't watching their own kids. But since it wasn't one of his grandkids, that call is really impossible.
That was just a baiting question that is often presented. It ignores the fact that the Paterno kids have been known to tell people: "We were those kids." They played at the Sandusky home.
 
Here are some other interesting facts & statistics that may provide clearer context for this incident:

Fact: Last year 42,000 calls to the PA hotline for reporting suspected child abuse went unanswered and unreturned. 42,000.
Translated into more manageable terms, yesterday 115 people in Pennsylvania tried to report an incident of suspected abuse but failed because the commonwealth simply didn't answer their calls. That will happen again today, tomorrow, the next day, and every day for the rest of the year.

Fact: After receiving one second-hand report of suspected abuse of a single child, Joe Paterno successfully reported the incident to 2 officials and then ensured that an investigation was conducted.

So, one could argue that by bypassing the hotline (which is just an assumption until the trials occur) that likely would have gone nowhere and reporting it directly to Sandusky's employer, that they went above and beyond.
 
Please indicate What is "more"? Also, Mike didn't see JS with Joes grandchild. Please deal in facts.

I don't know... but like Paterno himself stated: "I wish I had done more". Because if he had... maybe he legacy wouldn't have been tarnished.
 
I'd like to ask you all a very honest, sincere, question. Because it's something I personally have been struggling with every time I hear "Paterno should have done more" pertaining to the McQueary incident.

Hypothetically if McQueary would have told Paterno everything he supposedly saw and then added (and this is the hypothetical part) "I'm pretty sure it was one of your grandchildren Coach Paterno". Do you think Coach Paterno would have done more?

See this is something I ask myself all the time. Because that's the way I believe it should of been handled. As if it was your own child that was supposedly in that shower with that monster. That's what I struggle with when I hear the statement "Paterno should have done more" because I agree.

Hypothetically, if someone said they saw you doing everything that McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky doing, and then told Coach Paterno about it... when it's your life and reputation on the line... would you want JVP to do more than just follow policy?
 
So, one could argue that by bypassing the hotline (which is just an assumption until the trials occur) that likely would have gone nowhere and reporting it directly to Sandusky's employer, that they went above and beyond.
Unquestionably that one child had far more people come to his aid than the 42,000 who were ignored by the PA agency tasked with protecting them last year.
 
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I don't know... but like Paterno himself stated: "I wish I had done more". Because if he had... maybe he legacy wouldn't have been tarnished.
No, he said "with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more". Why do you truncate his quote?
Additionally there has never been any mention of legacy in any statement by Joe Paterno that was made in regard to Jerry Sandusky.
 
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I don't know... but like Paterno himself stated: "I wish I had done more". Because if he had... maybe he legacy wouldn't have been tarnished.

You are a troll. You don't know? Quit misrepresenting what Joe said. I am sure you read my first post to get Joe's actual quote.
Fact

Joe Paterno did not say he should have done more. What he did say was qualified: “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more”. Hindsight: wisdom or knowledge gained only after something (usually bad) has happened as is what happened in 2011 when Joe Paterno found out what Jerry Sandusky was accused of
 
No, he said "with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more". Why do you truncate his quote?

Because honestly... it doesn't make a difference. I believe mistakes were made by all. I think Coach Joe Paterno is/was a great man who's devotion to what is good in this world and making this world a better place far outweighs some of the mistakes he made. And in my mind... by not doing more... he made a mistake. Nothing will ever change that to me.
 
Because honestly... it doesn't make a difference. I believe mistakes were made by all. I think Coach Joe Paterno is/was a great man who's devotion to what is good in this world and making this world a better place far outweighs some of the mistakes he made. And in my mind... by not doing more... he made a mistake. Nothing will ever change that to me.
Joe, by his own admission, did not know the truth about Sandusky in 2001. Are you suggesting that he should have pushed the investigators to arrive at a predetermined conclusion anyway?
 
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Because honestly... it doesn't make a difference. I believe mistakes were made by all. I think Coach Joe Paterno is/was a great man who's devotion to what is good in this world and making this world a better place far outweighs some of the mistakes he made. And in my mind... by not doing more... he made a mistake. Nothing will ever change that to me.

Hell, I wish I had done more to stop JS, and I wasn't in school anymore or even aware of his crimes. Don't you? It's called being human.

Mistake - an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong.

Joe did not make a mistake. His actions and judgment based on the information available at that time were not misguided or wrong. Only with the benefit of hindsight, could you possibly you say he made a mistake.

If nothing will ever change your mind, you might as well stop commenting on the subject.
 
Because honestly... it doesn't make a difference. I believe mistakes were made by all. I think Coach Joe Paterno is/was a great man who's devotion to what is good in this world and making this world a better place far outweighs some of the mistakes he made. And in my mind... by not doing more... he made a mistake. Nothing will ever change that to me.

Can we just use this part of the quote?
"xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx, x xxxx I had done more"
 
Irrespective of what Mr. McQueary witnessed (or thought he may have witnessed) in 2001, he told Joe that he witnessed something. Joe Paterno then made sure that there was an investigation by two people whom he believed to be competent professionals, one of whom had responsibility for oversight of the police department.

The notion that Joe should have pushed Mr. Curly & Mr. Shultz to come to a specific conclusion is absolutely absurd in 2001. But it does not seem so in 2016 (nor did it in 2011). That is the benefit of hindsight.
 
I'm a Temple fan and alum, and no fan of the Lions. Some of you may not like it, but let me say this about the self-serving OP: That is the most clear, concise and absolutely convincing explanation of why Paterno is not culpable, legally or morally, that I have ever seen.

Don't let them misplace that statue.
A sincere thank you for this feedback. And good luck the rest of the way this season.
 
I met a woman last night that went to ND, and her husband went to MSU. She mentioned that they lived in State College for a few years, and our conversation turned eventually to football. I mentioned going to the game in Pittsburgh, and she immediately brought up the classless behavior of their fans towards JVP. She proceeded to say that she doesn't know much about the situation, but just always had such a respect for Joe, that she can't believe anything bad people say about him. I told her some facts of the case, and explained who really failed those kids, and how the problem has yet to be addressed. She thanked me for the info and was even more sure about JVP being a great man.
 
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Fact
Joe Paterno never covered up for Jerry Sandusky.
From the State Prosecutors Office. Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, the man who led the Sandusky investigation, told 60 Minutes Sports Armen Keteyian he found no evidence that Joe Paterno participated in a cover up of any sort.

Joe Paterno put Mike McQueary in DIRECT touch with AD Tim Curley , Joe Paterno’s direct supervisor and Gary Schultz who had oversight of University Police Department. PSU Police Force is the real Police. The Penn State police force comprises 46 armed officers. According to state law, these have both the power and the duty "to prevent crime, investigate criminal acts … and carry the offender before the proper alderman, justice of the peace, magistrate or bail commissioner."

Fact
Joe Paterno never interfered with the justice system
. Carmine W. Prestia Jr. I've lived and worked in State College for the past 41 years: 25 with the State College Police Department, one year of retirement, and 15 years as a magisterial district judge. Never once in my time as a police officer or judge has anyone in the football program asked me to cover up anything, withdraw a charge, or do something else unethical. I certainly saw a number of players get in trouble. Offenses ranged from simple summary offenses to felonies of the first degree.
http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...gn-paterno-tampered-in-justice-system,988524/

Fact
The Grand Jury report incorrectly stated that Mike McQueary had witnessed a rape.
Joe Paterno was never told a report of a child was being raped. Mike McQueary has testified that he never witnessed Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the shower, and didn’t tell anyone that he did. Because of the lack of evidence, Jerry was not convicted of a rape with regard to this 2001 incident. Also no victim testified in this incident. There were THREE not guilty verdicts in the Sandusky case and one of them was Count 7 --the incendiary allegation of a rape (IDSI) -- made by Mike McQueary regarding the 2001 incident.

Fact
Joe Paterno was praised by the Attorney General office for his correct handling of the Jerry Sandusky incident in 2001.
Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno did the right thing and reported an eye-witness report of child sex abuse by Jerry Sandusky in the football locker room in 2001, according to the indictment released this morning by the state Attorney General.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not ask Mike McQueary to stay quiet on the 2001 incident.
Mike said no one ever gave him instructions to not talk about it. Mike said Coach Paterno was great about the whole thing.

Fact
The Office for the Attorney General did not feel Joe Paterno’s reporting of Jerry Sandusky were cause to be fired.
Paterno is accused of no wrongdoing, and in fact authorities have said he fulfilled his legal obligations by reporting to his superiors. Based on the Feb. 2, 2012 subpoena directed at PSU by the US DOJ, Paterno was not a target or even mentioned. Nor did any of the information requested pertain to Paterno.

Fact
Child Welfare agencies approved Jerry Sandusky to adopt 5 children.
These were agencies that were educated and trained to spot people who were harmful to children. Jerry Sandusky also fostered several more children approved by these agencies. The agencies continued to place the children in Jerry Sandusky’s care over the years, and continued to allow Jerry Sandusky access to children at the 2nd Mile charity for at-risk youths.

Fact
The 2nd Mile Charity and youth agencies provided Jerry Sandusky access to trouble youths.
The 2nd Mile gave one on one access to mentors and youth through The Friend and Friend Fitness programs, which pair up adults with children in the hope of fostering positive role model-mentor relationships. The Friend Fitness Program is a mentorship program involving college and elementary students who join together and participate in healthy, educational activities. The Friend Fitness program was available only in Centre County for adolescents.

Fact
Joe Paterno didn’t agree with giving 2nd Mile charity access to PSU facilities for 2nd Mile use in Jerry Sandusky retirement package due to insurance liability issues.
Joe was overruled. In the Jerry Sandusky Penn State Retirement Package in 1998- Sandusky asked for access to training and workout facilities. Paterno put a check mark next to that request to deny that request. In a sidebar, Paterno asked if this was for Sandusky's personal use, or for Second Mile kids, and indicated that due to liability problems, facility access should not be extended to Second Mile kids. Paterno was overruled and Jerry Sandusky was granted access to bring Second Mile kids to workout facilities for the 2nd Mile Friends Fitness program.

Fact
Jerry Sandusky was retired from Penn State in 1999. He did not coach at Penn State after 1999 and wasn't coaching during the 2001 incident.
For his retirement package he received Emeritus Status

Fact
Due to Jerry Sandusky Emeritus Status, Joe Paterno and Penn State could not remove Jerry Sandusky’s access to Penn State Facilities because he had not been convicted of a crime
. Emeritus Status (entitles bearer to a lifetime office and lifetime access to campus) The Freeh report (page 81) states that University counsel (Cynthia Baldwin) said that the University could not legally revoke Sandusky's access to the athletic facilities because of his Emeritus status, and because he had not been convicted of a crime. Page 106 reiterates this. Page 107 adds that Baldwin said "his access could not be eliminated without the University being sued."

Fact
In the Jerry Sandusky trial, no victims testified against Jerry Sandusky that they were abused on Penn State’s campus in 2001.
Also zero victims testified in the trial that they were abused on PSU campus after 2001.

Fact
Joe Paterno had no knowledge of 1998 Jerry Sandusky incident being a crime
. What was eventually known is that Jerry Sandusky was exonerated. The 1998 incident was reported to police and thoroughly investigated by all agencies. The police went as far to set up a sting operation by recording conversations Sandusky had with the boy’s mother. The incident was investigated to the fullest extent and the District Attorney concluded no crimes were committed. DPW didn't even think there was enough cause to "indicate" Jerry Sandusky (a much lower standard is needed for this vs. bringing criminal charges btw) nor did they remove his 1 on 1 access to kids after the 1998 claims.In accordance with 055 Pa. Code § 3490.91. regarding the confidentiality of child abuse reports, the information regarding the nature of the 1998 child abuse investigation of Jerry Sandusky was not provided to Timothy Curley, Dr. Graham Spanier, or Joe Paterno.

Fact
There are no facts that point to Paterno knowing anything in 1970’s
. Joe Paterno had been questioned in his Grand jury testimony if he had any prior to 2001 knowledge of Jerry Sandusky inappropriate sexual conduct.
Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?
Mr. Paterno: I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it.

Even the 1976 accuser’s own lawyer Michael Boni said “The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ’76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case. Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.”

There are 2 claims of abuse in the 1970’s but neither falls into the way Jerry Sandusky was to have victimized the boys
Sandusky victimizing acts according to testimony from his reported victims:
1. Never victimized a female.
2. Never victimized a minor male in the presence of a minor female.
3. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the presence of other minor males.
4. Never overtly victimized a minor male in the (known) presence of other adults.
5. Never victimized a stranger.
6. Never used violence to force himself on a minor male.
7. Never provided victims with drugs or alcohol in the commission of his crimes.
Yet the 70’s claims and previously publicized claims include one or more of these as allegations by claimants who received settlements from Penn State. According to Sandusky's criminal profile, he was an acquaintance offender who slowly groomed his victims to comply with various levels of sexual abuse. Not all victims would comply to the same levels, therefore there is varying testimony about the actual crimes. However, what was consistent among Sandusky's victims was the manner in which he operated or his modus operandi. He met his victims through The Second Mile, took about one year to assess them and choose his targets, then began the grooming and victimizing of them.

Fact
PSU Board of Trustees did not check the veracity of any civil claim of abuse
. They paid claims in the amount of $90 million. Each settlement that PSU paid contained a clause that prevented the claimant to pursue additional monetary compensation from The Second Mile and/or former board members of The Second Mile.

Fact
Joe and Sue Paterno allowed their own kids to play with Jerry Sandusky.
"Do you think we'd let our kids play with someone who might be a pedophile?" she asked. "Obviously we were all totally unaware."

Fact
Joe Paterno handled the McQueary info how PA detective says it should be handled
. http://chirb.it/t5dK4p 18 year PA sexual abuse detective on what was required and expected of Joe Paterno and the protocol he used. He says Joe Paterno should not have done more.

Fact
Joe Paterno did not say he should have done more.
What he did say was qualified: “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more” Hindsight: wisdom or knowledge gained only after something (usually bad) has happened as was the case in 2011 after Joe Paterno found out the seriousness of the charges against Jerry Sandusky.

Fact
Joe Paterno never committed a major recruiting violation
. For someone who people claim he covered up for Jerry Sandusky in order to win football games one would think that sort of person would then treat rules like recruiting rules with little care. Yet as of 2016, there are only four athletic programs from major conferences on the list of non-cheating schools. They are Penn State, Boston College, Northwestern, and Stanford.

Fact
Joe Paterno's FBI file included zero mentions of Jerry Sandusky or any mention of Joe Paterno being aware of Jerry Sandusky being a child sexual predator.
The file’s accessible 868 pages don’t mention Jerry Sandusky or the former Penn State assistant coach’s child sexual abuse scandal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/29/joe-paterno-fbi-file-makes-no-mention-jerry-sandus/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Atlanta Olympic bomber case when Louis Freeh pinned the crime falsely on Richard Jewell.
In its rush to show the world how quickly it could get is man, the FBI trampled on my rights as a citizen. In its rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber, the media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being. In their mad rush to fulfill their own personal agendas, the FBI and the media almost destroyed me and my mother. You, the media, were looking too. Your cameras trained on my mother and me, your cameras and the FBI followed my every move. I felt like a hunted animal, followed constantly, waiting to be killed. The media said I fit the profile of a lone bomber. That was a lie. The media said I was a former law enforcement officer, a frustrated police wannabe. That was a lie. I was then and am now a law enforcement officer. The fact that I was between jobs and took a position as a security guard at the Olympics did not change that fact. The media said I was an overzealous officer. That was a lie. Three days into the process, the press went into a kind of media frenzy, and at that particular point, the press was not doing Mr. Jewell, the facts, the case, anybody any great service.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/jewell.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports-july-dec96-jewell_10-28/

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Duke Lacrosse case that the Duke Lacrosse was covering up for rape.
“The media quickly latched onto a narrative too seductive to check: rich, wild, white jocks had brutalized a working class, black mother of two,” reads the American Journalism Review’s analysis.

Fact
Media fell for false narrative in Virginia Fraternity rape case.
Media Bias: Nearly 40 years ago, Bob Dylan, singing about what he felt was a miscarriage of justice, said, "The newspapers, they all went along for the ride." Today the ride goes on, with broadcasters having jumped aboard. This time, the ride was on the back of a University of Virginia fraternity, smeared by a Rolling Stone article accusing members of the group of the gang rape of a female freshman named "Jackie." "The major broadcast networks," reports the Media Research Center, a media watchdog group, "rushed to the story and devoted multiple segments to both the article and reaction on the school's campus." On Nov. 23 and 24, the Big Three networks devoted "11 minutes and 14 seconds" of coverage to the gang rape story. They, of course, were happy to, because it supported the narrative that a brutal "rape culture" exists on American campuses. The narrative has been discredited, but the media played a prominent role in its development and will not easily let it go.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/rolling-stone-rape-story-example-of-media-bias/

“Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- "No, YOU move.”
Great post, bp. Whose quote is that at the end? Thanks.
 
And to those who insist on arguing that if Paterno had personally reported, Sandusky would have been stopped, I offer the following evidence: Here's a good example of what happens to a child once in the system. (I apologize for the PennLive click)

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/infant_lakia_hardy_death_child.html
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/infant_lakia_hardy_death_child.html
We have a state caseworker who enters the house, walks right past an infant who is starving to death because
a. She wasn't there to see that child
b. She wouldn't have been able to recognize the signs of neglect.

Let that sink in. A person being paid with PA taxpayer money for the express purpose of protecting children from abuse does not recognize that there's something wrong with a 5 month old that actually weighs less than most newborns AND was under no obligation to do anything anyway because her allotted time was not for that child.

IOW, CYS and DHS don't have to do more. But football coaches have no limits to what they're supposed to do.
 
That's just another copout by McQueary. If someone asks you;

Do you need to talk to anyone?

Are you okay?

Is there anything I can do for you?


Even if you think he is only talking about your well being, this is a perfect time to mention that you're upset that nothing appears to have happened to Sandusky, you know because I told you he was having sex with a child. Why wasn't he arrested?

Regardless of whether or not it might have been the perfect time, McQueary didn't respond. So it is irresponsible to claim that he did. Those that try to say that McQueary said he was ok with it are putting words in his mouth that he never said.
 
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