A clarification of two facts:
1. The Pennsylvania State Police has jurisdiction as well.
2. It is not necessary to witness suspected criminal activity in order to contact the police.
Just The Facts About Joe Paterno
- Thread starter bplionfan
- Start date
A clarification of two facts:
1. The Pennsylvania State Police has jurisdiction as well.
2. It is not necessary to witness suspected criminal activity in order to contact the police.
1. When Paterno contacted his supervisor about a troubling report from a grad assistant he satisfied Penn State's policy for reporting. When he contacted the administrative head of police, he went beyond it.
2. Why are you singularly obsessed with Joe Paterno?
p.s. Your "State police" hypothesis clearly demonstrates that attempts to overcome the hindsight bias have alluded you.
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This:
It never mattered who was coaching. It could have been O'Brien, it could have been (insert any name here) - it was never about Mike and it was never about Joe.
What matters is that Spanier was looped in.
Corbett had a hard on for Spanier over the budget battle, over Onorato and because he stood up for the research done at PSU by Drs. Mann and Alley and this became personal for Corbett. Penn State's goose was being cooked all along down in Harrisburg and there wasn't a damned thing they could do about it. Those guys had no idea they were being led into that grand jury, prodded along by the likes of Cynthia Baldwin, like cattle to slaughter.
I will submit that if Spanier was never informed of the "McQueary" incident - this would all have taken a different tack.
"It was a calculated risk" - Tom Corbett
It never mattered who was coaching. It could have been O'Brien, it could have been (insert any name here) - it was never about Mike and it was never about Joe.
What matters is that Spanier was looped in.
Corbett had a hard on for Spanier over the budget battle, over Onorato and because he stood up for the research done at PSU by Drs. Mann and Alley and this became personal for Corbett. Penn State's goose was being cooked all along down in Harrisburg and there wasn't a damned thing they could do about it. Those guys had no idea they were being led into that grand jury, prodded along by the likes of Cynthia Baldwin, like cattle to slaughter.
I will submit that if Spanier was never informed of the "McQueary" incident - this would all have taken a different tack.
"It was a calculated risk" - Tom Corbett
Yeah - watch this video - Fina is weaseling around the fact that his actions torched a community. The same community that paid his salary and supported his porn habit.
While not illegal, morally, Frank "Fap" Fina shouldn't have enjoyed images of women being violated with champagne bottles while at work in state offices using taxpayer resources.
My response was directed toward two misstatements of facts.
The jurisdiction of the Pennsylvania State Police has nothing to do with Joe Paterno and neither does the fact that one need not be an eyewitness to suspected criminal activity in order to contact the police.
Why were you compelled to clarify the jurisdiction of the PA State Police on this message board?
One does need to be aware of criminal activity to contact the police, so your point is moot.
I see. So, knowing that he had reported the matter to the AD and University Administrator in charge of the University Police, and knowing that the AD had an in-person meeting with the head of TSM, not to mention the fact that that same administrator had contacted the University's lawyer for legal advice, the head football coach was nonetheless supposed to contact the State Police. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Wendy...
While I agree with your basic premise of "weaseling", I take issue with your comment about Fina's actions being morally wrong and not illegal.
The subject matter communicated was not a "one time" joke forwarded to a personal friend. This was an example of an ON-GOING systemic breach of legal responsibility consistently practiced by a COLLUSIVE GROUP of PA officials. The scope of activities of this group was such that the information was forwarded BETWEEN isolated SEGMENTS OF PA GOVERNMENT who, by design and law are NOT ALLOWED to engage in communications which could "even possibly" influence the overall mindset AND PERSPECTIVE of anyone in that government segment. This illegal type of communication is in addition to the misuse of PA government resources - the IT system itself..
It used to be that even the "appearance of impropriety" while in office was enough to get you removed from office. Now, in PA, cross-boundry porn trafficking seems to be more of a fraternity handshake than an indication of potential illegal governmental influencing.
I submit that in view of the SCOPE of these activities...these actions are both illegal AND immoral!
Indeed.
The ex parte communications is of a HUGE concern. What was allowed to go on in the culture of Tom Corbett's Office of Attorney General opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. In my speaking with a former US Attorney & Federal Prosecutor - what's lost in the media frenzy over the porn - is that from a lawyer's standpoint, a group of prosecutors has sent a series of ex parte communications to members of the judiciary by email. These emails were sent pursuant to a well thought out plan. It demonstrates the close relationships cultivated by law enforcement with judges who preside over grand jury investigations and criminal cases throughout our commonwealth.
Just like the judge and prosecutor who presided over the grand jury that targeted Penn State.
In my dreams - I see an email with Corbett and/or his gunslingers discussing how they're gonna torch the PSU admins over this.
Just one email.
To quote another poster here on smoking gun emails: "It's right there in black and white".
It truly is baffling how not one single media person, child advocate, etc. has voiced concern over the MASSIVE conflict of interest corbett had in any investigation that went near JS/TSM considering his numerous campaign finance ties to TSM bigwigs (one of which held a freaking fundraiser for corbett at his house- I think it was Bob Poole). He should have very publicly recused himself but instead took a very hands on approach to the case when he was AG and it came across his desk in March 2009.
Corbett was literally taking in money from TSM bigwigs and their family members for his run for governor while at the same time supposedly investigating JS (and surprise surprise, never even started a formal investigation into TSM)....smh
1. Actually no. If you call the State Police, and you live in a municipality that has full time local police coverage, or one that doesn't have an agreement with the State Police to provide coverage, they won't respond to your call. If you live in some little burgh with one part-time officer who's on duty 6 hours a day for 5 days, yeah, the PSP will cover for when he's not there.
If you dial 911, and that was just becoming more widespread in the early 2000's, and you tell the dispatcher where you're calling from, they will direct you to whichever police force has jurisdiction. You don't get to choose who you want to deal with.
Oh... but Joe Paterno, a man who was often overruled by his superiors, was the most powerful man in the state. If one was an idiot, they might even say Joe was the CEO of the football program, despite being several layers of management below the actual CEO of the university. He could have requested whichever law enforcement he wanted, then instructed them to get in a time machine and go back and stop JS from showering with V2.
You are correct except that is not relevant to what I posted which was on the issue of jurisdiction.
A poster said that the incident was reported to the only police that had jurisdiction; ie Schultz and the University Police. That is not correct since the PSP has jurisdiction as well. You may not remember but the 1969 murder investigation of a coed in the library was conducted by the State Police and in fact I think that investigation is still open.
You should check this out on jurisdiction.
http://www.psp.pa.gov/About Us/Pages/default.aspx
So, based on this statement, the University policy that was in place at the time, and the policy now in place by the NCAA is in violation of the laws and regulations set forth by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? Because the PSP enforces Commonwealth regulations.
Further, based on what McQ told Joe, he had no reason of a criminal activity being committed....as neither did McQ's dad, or Dranov, who were informed before Joe was. Was Joe to report something to the PSP based on no suspicion of a criminal activity?
If you see a man walking into a bank, do you call the PSP and report a suspected criminal activity - i.e. a bank robbery?
Your use of the word "fact" is severely misplaced here. It's not a "fact".
People use the word fact here way too loosely. Fact is nobody knows what words exactly were used in those conversations. People have varying opinions on what may or may not have been said based on testimony off of decade old memories.
I would also add that we still don't even know what actions occurred around the 2001 incident.
I'm sorry but you are wrong. The UPPD was and is the authority with jurisdiction on campus. They could ask the PSP to assume jurisdiction, but that didn't happen.
I'm not sure if UPPD was even an active police force in 1969 and i don't think you know that either.
There is still plenty not known and tons of gray. You read some of the crap shoveled around here and you would swear some think they were in the room with MM and Joe.
The emails in '01 exonerate all of them. To fully understand that, one merely has to read the notes and emails from '01 from the point of view that Tim and Gary had testified truthfully about what Mike reported to them.
You totally butcher what Spanier wrote! He said, "....The only downside for us is if our message is not "heard" and acted upon and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it..."
What that means is that they were sending Jerry a message. If he got it, great. Problem solved. If he didn't, another incident (like '98) would make them look bad. If....then.
How could Spanier's "only" concern have been a subsequent incident if he believed they were dealing with a case of abuse? Wouldn't the elephant in the room have been the risk that the boy in the shower would go to the authorities?
These guys were trying to prevent a he said/he said scenario in the future, where even the accusation of abuse could have dragged PSU into a civil suit as a defendant with deep pockets. They were trying to protect Sandusky from himself. They thought he was naive and had boundary issues, not that he was abusing children.
It turns out they were wrong as his victims testified to much more than that. I don't think they could fathom how sick Jerry was as he groomed those around him to think he was just that super nice guy caring for kids. That doesn't make them bad people IMO and they were taken down in a Salem style witch hunt due to the nature of Jerry's crimes. I think those 3 along with Joe were collateral damage and sadly that is what was put out there. Hopefully they can actually clarify everything in time.
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I'm much less convinced of this than you are. None the less, being wrong is not a scandal.
So you do understand that the PSP have jurisdiction; great. My post was in response to an assertion that the University police was the only police force with jurisdiction. Thank you for the confirmation.
Refusing to admit you are wrong does not change the fact that you are.
"So, based on this statement, the University policy that was in place at the time, and the policy now in place by the NCAA is in violation of the laws and regulations set forth by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? Because the PSP enforces Commonwealth regulations"
I really have no clue how you jump from the fact that the Pennsylvania State Police have jurisdiction in all political subdivisions in Pennsylvania to whatever you just said.
How was I wrong when I said the PSP have jurisdiction when you agreed in your post that they did?
"I'm sorry but you are wrong. The UPPD was and is the authority with jurisdiction on campus. They could ask the PSP to assume jurisdiction, but that didn't happen."
You post that the PSP have jurisdiction but state I was wrong when I posted the same thing.
Really?
Not only are you wrong, but you're stupid? Really?
It's quite common for a local dept to request help from the PSP for a variety of reasons .
In terms of the jurisdiction of the Pennsylvania State Police, they have statewide jurisdiction to investigate crimes and arrest suspects for criminal violations. Within the structure of the State Police, however, a criminal investigation will be transferred to the State Police Barracks for the community where the crime was committed. On the other hand, there have been occasions where a State Trooper in Susquehanna County has charged defendant’s for criminal acts in other counties when those acts arose out of a continuing criminal enterprise. When that occurs, the State Trooper would call me and I would have a conversation with the District Attorney in the other county to seek permission to file the criminal charges here in Susquehanna County – rather than having criminal complaints filed in a multitude of jurisdictions.
GTSCA is right, here's the whole article :
http://susqco.com/2012/01/20/jurisdiction/
GTSCA is right, here's the whole article :
http://susqco.com/2012/01/20/jurisdiction/
Don't get me wrong, IF Paterno was indeed informed of a crime then I strongly feel he should have immediately informed the PSP.
On a related note, don't for a second believe that the PSP was not aware of Sandusky's transgressions.
So to recap: Discussion of the football coach's relative awareness of a vague & potentially criminal activity is encouraged ad nauseam. But it's out of bounds for law enforcement.
