Last Chance OTT Qualifier - April 7
- Thread starter backdrft76
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For 2020, crediting the top 8 NCAA seeds at each weight as AAs is legit (as declared by NWCA) and pretty widely accepted. Crediting the #1 seeds as 2020 national champs is not.Kolodzik earned it. I just went to the Princeton website to review his career, and they are giving him credit for AA status in 2020 when no tournament took place. Their first 4 time AA even though he competed in only three.
Matthew Kolodzik - Wrestling - Princeton University Athletics
Matthew Kolodzik - At Princeton — 2019-20 (9-0): All-American, earning first-team NWCA honors and becoming Princeton's first four-time All-America ... first-...goprincetontigers.com
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The plaques/posters honoring Pletcher and Moore and 2020 nationals champs on are a wall in the Covelli Center wrestling facility at anOSU. I imagine Tom Tan can adorn the walls (or at least some of them) of the Covelli Center however he sees fit.
It's not a violation or malicious, it's just really lame and douchy.
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You don't ask a magician how he does his tricks, do you? 🤣
Yeah, if the #1 seed = national champ, Marinelli would have been a 3-timer.
Maybe when he realizes the ratio of PS guys compared to other teams at OTT, he will wise up.
If that happens this year then Carter with the #9 seed doesn't make AA.
So what? He's also not a national champ because the tourney doesn't get held.
I am really struggling to understand this whole "they weren't All-Americans in 2020" mindset. First, many other sports declare AAs without H2H competition -- anyone dispute Olu Fashanu or Saquon or Micah? Second, are we really trying to overturn something from 4 years ago?
It comes across as petty.
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It's not legit, and just because it's widely accepted doesn't make it legit. It wasn't earned because quite a few who "earned" it from the NWCA would not have earned it on the mat that year, and an equal number who didn't get AA status would have earned it on the mat. Where can those guys go to get their AA?
A disappointing post by you El Jefe. Your post has three strawmen in it.
You're missing the point, and I doubt you're struggling to understand the concept that guys who didn't wrestle didn't earn the AA designation. In our sport, it's earned on the mat. Always has been and always will be. Except for one year, where AA status was given without any wrestling. Why support that junk? I'm not trying to overturn what they did in 2020, just giving my view as to why it was so wrong to do so. Many may think it's okay what was done, but I've yet to see a good explanation as to its fairness to ALL involved compared to other years. It wasn't fair. Nothing about 2020 was fair, and yet in their attempt to insert some fairness into the process, the NWCA inserted more unfairness. What is petty is holding onto a belief that doesn't pass muster just because.
The only thing you're right about in there is that nothing about 2020 was fair, so why not honor those kids who were the top kids all year who got their tournament cancelled? It's not "fair" because it doesn't give the other kids who made the tournament an opportunity to earn it as well, but who cares? At the time with the whole world shut down, people were just looking for some consolation for a lost season, and this was like NWCA's token. It doesn't bother me at all that they did it, given the circumstances.
I’d bet my house #1 seed Pletcher wasn’t beating Lee if it came down to a rubber match in the finals that year.
Okay, bro. This really seems to be a hot button for you.
As others have stated, the whole situation with the 2020 NCAA tourney was unprecedented and likewise effed up. Most (including me) don't seem to have any issue (i.e., widely accepted) with how the NWCA chose to handle the AA designations.
Was it different than every other year? Yes, without question.
Was it a perfect solution? No, but there was no perfect solution once the tournament was cancelled.
Was it patently messed up or unfair? I think not, and at least offered some honor to those good enough to get a top 8 seed.
It's also kinda weird to have this discussion 4 years after the fact. Not that there is a statute of limitations on the topic, just strange timing.
I believe Aesop would have seen it on par with the dog in the manger. The "why" is similar to the dog not letting the cattle eat the hay.
I believe that giving or allowing something for some does not de facto takeaway from those who don't directly benefit. We see this dynamic in life everyday. It is only by not giving, not allowing, and not loving that one denies all.
Having an all or nothing mentality seems folly to me.
At NCAAs this year, Bryant/Hazzard were differenting All Americans and Placewinners. The would announce someone as a 3x AA, 2x place winner. Going by this, Kolodzik would be a 4x AA, 3x placewinner.
Maybe looking at it this way would help PennState1985 sleep at night.
Maybe looking at it this way would help PennState1985 sleep at night.
If there is anything to be up in arms about, at least with me, is how the NCAA shafted the covid seniors, then trying to make it right by giving EVERYONE a free year... well how the hell did that help Marky, Cenzo, Shak etc etc etc.
I completely understand why you think they didn't earn it.
I disagree -- I think they earned it based upon their body of work in the time available to them. Which is very comparable to the football examples, so not a strawman.
That's not my preference but nobody got their preference in 2020. Life goes on.
But whatever.
What I don't understand is why you or anyone else cares so much. What purpose does this serve?
This right here^^.
Maybe there is some practical matter that escapes me, but it sure seems a lot more "fair" to the free COVID year to apply to the athletes who competed (i.e., not redshirts) in the 2019-20 season. Rather than give a free year to everyone in the 2020-21 season, regardless of whether they were impacted in 2019-20.
This seems much more equitable to the Luke Pletchers and Kollin Moores of the world.
It is not legit because any of the 8 could have easily lost just like the #1 seed is not guaranteed to be champ.
The NWCA lists SCHOLAR all Americans. In 2020 they decided to list all americans since there was no tournament. Looks to me like a one time thing and it is bogus. Starocci would not have been on their all American team this year.
I'm not losing any sleep over this, but not sure I understand the difference between a place winner and AA designation. Aren't the top eight finishers (i.e., 1st place thru 8th place) all placeholders, and by definition also AAs?
Or am I missing something fundamental here? Wouldn't be the first time.
Is it widely accepted? Wasn't iT a one time thing? Other years the nwca listed scholar all americans. This year they listed 340+ d1 AAs.
In all but one year there is no distinction. NWCA awards All-American Status to the top 8 place winners at Nationals.
However, without the tournament giving the ability to do that, NWCA awarded All-American Status to the top 8 *going in* to the tournament rather than the top 8 *coming out* of the tournament. See all the horse beating up above for various opinions on that.
So in the arena, the announcers are making the distinction between the two statuses based on the all American Status given in 2020.
So, for example, Mark Hall is a 4 time all-american, but only a 3 time placewinner, because All-American Status was disconnected from an earned placement in 2020 because they lost the chance to compete.
Hmmmm...
She could really be he or maybe he could be she. Then again, I might be she or could actually be he. But when I figure out if I'm he, she or I... I, he or she will let you know...
That is, if you are really you.
It's possible that for some this is just coming to light 4 years later. While others have had time to digest it and move forward, perhaps it's new to others and is rather unsettling upon learning about it.
Everyone is different and can have their opinions. We need not be salty with one another. This ain't GIA.
Everyone is different and can have their opinions. We need not be salty with one another. This ain't GIA.
TBF, DT probably could have tech'd a bunch of senior-level guys at 57kg when he was 17. This was the last chance qualifier and most of the guys there aren't exactly contending for world team spots. Let's not pretend Tomasello is tearing it on the senior level. I can't remember the last tournament I saw him in.
Now,
20-20 hindsight?
The 2020-21 pre-season free covid year guarantee couldn't happen in 19-20. 20-21 was all about encouraging competition without risk of losing a year of eligibility. 19-20 established loss of a year of eligibility as precedent.
The NCAA and its member schools lost a lot of revenue in 19-20. The revised 20-21 policy was all about having a product to minimize their financial drain. It was never about being fair to individual athletes.
True, though you'd think an NCAA champion training at Michigan under Beloglazov, with world champ Micic as a daily training partner, would put up more resistance against a HS soph.
Just because you say it isn't legit doesn't make it so. Time to give this one a rest don't you think? This is one of the least consequential historical topics I have seen in a while.
No. It still does not work. The only way to keep it fair would have been to simply compete that year. Giving those seniors another year which for some would be a sixth year then screws the freshman the following year. If Starocci or Brooks lost to a sixth year senior would anyone be happy?
