It is funny how the existence of that video footage, which none of us has seen or maybe will ever see, will nevertheless inform all our opinions about Piazza's death from this day forward.
Lawyers say Beta members tried to help
- Thread starter jerseylion109
- Start date
One of the frat brothers' lawyers, McClenahen (?sp), is already allowing as how there might have been negligence, but no maliciousness. Not sure I want my lawyer giving that up before there is even a charge filed.
Penn State's "leadership" is hoping that Frankln continues to win, but not for the reason a university's leadership normally does.
Uh....start over.
You couldn't have missed he point more completely.
The POINT is that - EXACTLY LIKE the V5 Settlement (IIRC it was "V5", in any event - whomever the "Kline Victim" was in the Sandusky case) Lubert will ship his buddy (Kline) as big and fat a check as he possibly can.
Just as in the Sandusky case - - - - not to "compensate" the victims - - - - - but to put all that nice fresh cash into the pockets of his cohort (who, in both cases, is probably netting out more cash than the "victims")
Open season on the PSU Treasury - and Lubert is handing out the satchels of cash.
"Leadership"
I don't know how much he cares, but what happens to all of Abbey's $$$$$?
https://betapsu.2stayconnected.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=221&Itemid=610
And how did everything seemingly go to Hell SO quickly?
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_bb8e7f60-5bc0-5ad3-9e5a-942cbdc1c14e.html
https://betapsu.2stayconnected.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=221&Itemid=610
And how did everything seemingly go to Hell SO quickly?
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_bb8e7f60-5bc0-5ad3-9e5a-942cbdc1c14e.html
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It may inform one way (guilt) or the other (innocence) of some involved or it may not offer anything definitive either way. Not being a lawyer it's impossible for me to offer any statement on who is legally culpable, but I find the entire story tragic no matter what.
Uh....start over.
You couldn't have missed he point more completely.
The POINT is that - EXACTLY LIKE the V5 Settlement (IIRC it was "V5", in any event - whomever the "Kline Victim" was in the Sandusky case) Lubert will ship his buddy (Kline) as big and fat a check as he possibly can.
Just as in the Sandusky case - - - - not to "compensate" the victims - - - - - but to put all that nice fresh cash into the pockets of his cohort (who, in both cases, is probably netting out more cash than the "victims")
Open season on the PSU Treasury - and Lubert is handing out the satchels of cash.
"Leadership"
In the JS case there was a clear motive to ship the money to the victims. What's the motive here? Who would that protect?
The problem is that they provided alcohol to a minor and hazing are both crimes in PA. If they go after an involuntary manslaughter charge the fact they did not provide aid could contribute to the grossly negligent manner.
A person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when as a direct result of the doing of an unlawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, or the doing of a lawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, he causes the death of another person
The "motive"? Didn't I state that clearly enough? (Isn't it obvious even if I didn't?)
Yeah, I DID state that "clearly enough"
:".....Lubert will ship his buddy (Kline) as big and fat a check as he possibly can.
Just as in the Sandusky (V5) case - - - - not to "compensate" the victims - - - - - but to put all that nice fresh cash into the pockets of his cohort (who, in both cases, is probably netting out more cash than the "victims")....."
Is there any way to state it MORE clearly?
Uh....start over.
You couldn't have missed he point more completely.
The POINT is that - EXACTLY LIKE the V5 Settlement (IIRC it was "V5", in any event - whomever the "Kline Victim" was in the Sandusky case) Lubert will ship his buddy (Kline) as big and fat a check as he possibly can.
Just as in the Sandusky case - - - - not to "compensate" the victims - - - - - but to put all that nice fresh cash into the pockets of his cohort (who, in both cases, is probably netting out more cash than the "victims")
Open season on the PSU Treasury - and Lubert is handing out the satchels of cash.
"Leadership"
In the JS case there was a clear motive to ship the money to the victims. What's the motive here? Who would that protect?
What does "video" have anything to do with PSU's culpability for the event as the Plaintiff is claiming???
Depends what is on the video, and how the testimony plays against the video.
The "motive"? Didn't I state that clearly enough? (Isn't it obvious even if I didn't?)
Yeah, I DID state that "clearly enough"
".....Lubert will ship his buddy (Kline) as big and fat a check as he possibly can.
Just as in the Sandusky (V5) case - - - - not to "compensate" the victims - - - - - but to put all that nice fresh cash into the pockets of his cohort (who, in both cases, is probably netting out more cash than the "victims")....."
Is there any way to state it MORE clearly?
Do you not see any distinction between the two cases? Like the fact that the possibility exists that a crime was captured on video?
I am no lawyer but I can wager a few guesses:
1. A PSU employee may have committed a crime (Bream) by providing a minor alcohol.
2. The potential crime occurred on Penn State property.
3. The fraternitycommunity at PSU is officially supported by the University's office of student affairs.
Are people actually this dense? I mean, why do stores have surveillance cameras. Why don't they just TELL the cops that suspect x stole something. Case closed!
You asked "what the motives were" for the payouts to Kline - - - - - and I pointed that out to you (again
)Who the F was talking about whether or not a crime was committed? Not I.
I have no interest in becoming a participant in that "jerk fest".
(unless the "crimes" you want to discuss are about embezzlement, fiduciary negligence, and fraud ....then, I'm there
)You want to talk about some completely different topic.....feel free.
Jeebzus
PSU's corrupt OG BOT (i.e., supposedly the "University's Leadership") has taken to referring to Franklin's Department as their "Slush Fund" - as in, "How can we convert our massive Slush Fund balances to our own personal bank accounts?". Spending the vast majority of their time strategizing regarding this question is supposedly now qualifies as "Great Leadership" according to our modern corrupt culture (especially the scumbag lawyers among them).....
Yeah, this is likely what they're looking at. We have a death, and probably an unlawful act (furnishing alcohol), but not sure the death was caused as a direct result of the unlawful act. In the article, we can see that the lawyers are trying to make the case that the direct cause of the fall was two girls sitting on/blocking the stairs.
1. Bream was an employee of the chapter not PSU. This did not relate to his PSU job. He moonlighted as their live in advisor
2. Beta does not sit on university property according to the deed of the property and the reason SC police are handling the case
Stupid beyond belief for the school to have allowed this. I'd like to know who the admins were who signed off on this.
How do you know they "allowed" anything? Some of you take a whole acre of horsehit as "allowance". How do you know he didn't bring/supply his own booze?
You don't.
Considering the kid texted his girlfriend earlier that night "they're gonna get me f*cked up tonight", I don't think it's a stretch to believe that the fraternity supplied the alcohol.
Sounds like you brought your own booze. I'm talking about allowing Bream to live in the house.
Oh but he's not a clear troll don't you know??? He keeps claiming that PSU has final say as to where their employees are "permitted" to reside.... A completely nonsensical assertion, let alone to claim it as a legally-relevant factual assertion, LMFAO!
Putting aside my belief that it's far more likely that the young man was given alcohol by the fraternity, there's no legal difference either way. In Pennsylvania, you're guilty of furnishing alcohol to a minor if you allow a minor to possess or consume alcohol on your property. There's no BYOB exception.
You asked "what the motives were" for the payouts to Kline - - - - - and I pointed that out to you (again
Who the F was talking about whether or not a crime was committed? Not I.
I have no interest in becoming a participant in that "jerk fest".
(unless the "crimes" you want to discuss are about embezzlement, fiduciary negligence, and fraud ....then, I'm there
You want to talk about some completely different topic.....feel free.
Jeebzus
The entire thread is about a death and any potential crime surrounding it. Your single narrow focus of "CORRUPTION!!!" and "GOVERNANCE!!!!!" doesn't seem to allow you to see past your own blinders. You're becoming intolerable.
1. Bream was an employee of both.
2. I had been operating under the premise that BTP was on Uni property. If not then that may change the legal repercussions, but again I am not a lawyer.
If that is so, then the question becomes a little clearer at least wrt the frat leaders, in any civil case against the frat. the courts might not say it this way, but you furnish alcohol to a minor (set aside for the moment the idea that they made drinking it a condition of getting in the frat) and you kind of become his insurer for the time he is drunk.
Not sure how it plays criminally. For example, we have dui, dui causing injury, dui causing death all as separate crimes. What about furnishing causing injury or furnishing causing death? Do not know enough to say, but at SOME point in all this we will hear the argument that the reason we don't permit people under 21 to drink is because they cannot handle it very well, don't know when to quit, etc.
Without a doubt, PSU can provide as a condition of employment that its employees are not permitted to reside in fraternity houses. The reason it would do so is to avoid confusion about PSU's role in oversight of the fraternity, which is exactly what you are going to see here when Tom Kline gets done with this thing. Because this particular living arrangement is so dumb, I'm assuming that some dumbass dean signed off on it; if not, than Bream should be fired for stupidity.
O...M...G
Seriously John?
Look, I admire the effort you put into the "Child Protection" stuff.....I really do.
I have neither the time nor the strength nor the expertise to take on that battle. I am glad that some do (but - more importantly - it is important to Society that some righteous folks do)
But don't come over and start pissing all over a thread that has nothing to do with your mission.......and then accuse someone else of having "blinders on" because they don't wish to take part in an irrelevant (to the point at hand) debate.
That is what is known as Circle-Jerking, and it is just stupid.
Good Grief.
With that, I will wish you (sincerely) well......and adieu.
.
I'm not sure about civil liability - Pennsylvania's dram shop laws seem as complicated as the rest of the liquor code - but criminally, assuming the involuntary manslaughter statute quoted earlier is accurate, I'd think prosecutors could potentially make a case that "expecting" underage pledges (even if you aren't forcing them) to finish a 1.75 liter bottle of vodka in a night on your property rises to the level of "doing an unlawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner" and that the alcohol consumption caused the death.
Their lawyers are trying to plant the idea that it wasn't the alcohol that made him fall down the stairs - which would break the involuntary manslaughter chain - but I'd suspect that's the endgame for the grand jury in terms of criminal liability. The frat seems to be on the hook for furnishing, but I'd think they're working on whether to charge for involuntary manslaughter and, if so, who to charge.
Why would you think PSU has any right to approve outside employment? My father worked for PSU for 35 years and did consulting with several weapons manufacturers and never needed PSU approval.
If you're talking about a situation where he was using PSU labs and facilities to conduct this work, then some sort of approval/clearance process should have been in place, at the very least to assure ownership and responsibility for his work product. If you're talking about your dad going off to someone else's facility on off days, then that's way different from a senior university administrator living in an on-campus fraternity house full-time.
If twelve of their pledges can't finish off a handle bottle without losing their minds, then they should be charged with gross whimpery.
It's already been pointed out to you that the fraternity house was not part of PSU's Campus via THE DEED, but don't let facts get in the way of your continued bull$hit.... Oh yea, good thing you're not a troll and your only spewing all these bull$hit, made-up facts about "legal obligations" that PSU didn't in fact have out of your never-ending love for PSU.....LMFAO!
O...M...G
Seriously John?
Look, I admire the effort you put into the "Child Protection" stuff.....I really do.
I have neither the time nor the strength nor the expertise to take on that battle. I am glad that some do (but - more importantly - it is important to Society that some righteous folks do)
But don't come over and start pissing all over a thread that has nothing to do with your mission.......and then accuse someone else of having "blinders on" because they don't wish to take part in an irrelevant (to the point at hand) debate.
That is what is known as Circle-Jerking, and it is just stupid.
Good Grief.
With that, I will wish you (sincerely) well......and adieu.
.
Yes seriously Barry you are becoming intolerable. I pissed all over a thread by stating that video probably (later confirmed) exists of what happened and that that is in no way like the case of Jerry Sandusky's victims getting paid for claiming to be abused where video did not exist to verify anyone's legal culpability? Never mind that you flip from discussing a criminal case and civil settlement back and forth re V5 as if they are the same thing. Details schmetails. Unless Tom feels that I have violated any of his terms, I'll post anything I want anywhere I want in any thread I want. Including calling your bullshit when I see it. Have a nice day.
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