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Michigan DE Rashan Gary scores a 9 on the wonderlic

Judge Smails

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May 29, 2001
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2019 Wonderlic Scores
04-18-2019, 06:03 PM

Bob McGinn (formerly of the Wisconsin Journal-Sentinel) has done it again -- he's semi-retired now but is running a for-pay sports website with his son, and is still getting his hands on Wonderlic scores every year from some unnamed scout. He's releasing prospect analyses position-by-position over the next week, and I'll update the Wonderlic scores here as he posts them.

Here's what we've got so far:

Defensive Line
39 Chase Allen
36 Zach Allen
31 Khalen Saunders
31 Jerry Tillery
31 John Cominsky
23 Trysten Hill
23 Joey Bosa
20 Ed Oliver
20 Dre'Mont Jones
19 Christian Wilkins
18 Jaylon Ferguson
17 Dexter Lawrence
14 Jeffery Simmons
13 Olive Sagapolu
11 Quinnen Williams
11 Gerald Willis
9 Rashan Gary

iu
 
Just like T Pryor.


Those conference "All Academic" teams almost manage to make the Director's Cup "competitions" seem meaningful :)


Some months ago I stumbled onto one of those "behind the scenes" type shows on Michigan Football (must have been something on the BTN).
Anyway, it was a little clip of some UM Academic Advisor type trying to counsel Gary on the importance of preparing for a life after football.

What was memorable was the complete vacuum that was the mind of R Gary.
It was clear that nothing she said encountered even a slight delay in floating right into one ear and out the other. She might as well have been talking to a mop. A disinterested mop at that.

Hopefully, for the sake of the kid and his family, he has a bountiful stint in the NFL :)

And retained just enough knowledge to bank some of that money he makes in the NFL and lives off a realistic budget.
 
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From the MGoBlog thread on the topic...

mGrowOld

April 22nd, 2019 at 4:41 PM ^

Look I gave the Wonderlic to every prospective employee for almost 10 years. I can tell you with a great deal of confidence that hiring people with a score under 20 meant we would have challenges with them in retention and anything involved in learning new concepts. They simply could not do it. And we immediately eliminated anybody with a score under 20 because we learned (the hard way) that they would be difficult to train and would have a hard time processing directions.

FWIW my pool of applicants were mostly kids fresh out of school and the lowest score I ever saw was a 12. Most people were 20-30 with only a small number in the 15-20 range.

In 10 years of testing I never saw anybody get a 9

A nine means Gary is as dumb as a bag of hammers. Sorry but I've taken the test and proxy administered the test for years. The Wonderlic gets progressively harder as the questions progress but the first 10-15 or so are absolute gimmies. For example they'll show a picture of a large circle and a small square and ask which one has a larger area. Or they'll list presidents with one non-historical president and ask how many US presidents are listed. By the end of the test it's vastly different and much harder but to get a nine means you are seriously, seriously stupid.

FWIW I seriously doubt that any of the people discounting the accuracy of the test itself have any familiarity with it at all. I'll bet I gave over 1,000 of the tests over a 10 year period which is why I believe they are deadly accurate in estimating intelligence.
 
Another example of an athlete getting preferential treatment. Everyone in college took easy classes and were steered to easy professors. But to be an acedemic all-American does a disservice to the kid. The most important thing is for the student get an education which improves his quality of life. Joe always forced players to attend class to try and get an education. Not perfect but he tried.
 
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I was thinking about how important the test is for any given position. IMHO, it's least important for DT. QB, RB and WR all obviously need the ability to grasp the offensive concepts and execute accordingly. The same applies to the OL where everyone needs to understand blocking schemes so plays can develop. On defense, LB and CB need the ability to recognize an offensive formation and react appropriately. Even DE sometimes needs to take on some responsibilities to the outside depending on the offense. But DT? If a guy has great size and strength but doesn't know squat about reading an offense, all the coaches need to do is tell him, "OK, big fella. You line up right there and go tackle the guy who has the ball."
 
Apparently ESPiN thinks his declaring for the draft helps the booger picker's chances of making it into the CFP. So overhyped as usual.

 
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which hurts him worse in the draft, the 9 on the test, or his torn shoulder?

Former Michigan defensive lineman Rashan Gary’s ranking in this year’s draft class has varied quite a bit from pundit to pundit.

Gary’s physical tools made him a top recruit out of high school and continue to intrigue scouts, but his production in college wasn’t at a level equal to that potential. That leads to different ideas about how he’ll fare in the NFL and there’s reportedly an injury to factor into any evaluation.

Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that Gary has a labral tear in his shoulder that dates back to college. The feeling reportedly is that Gary can play with the injury as a rookie before potentially having surgery, but that he’d need to play with a harness and/or otherwise manage the shoulder to get through the year.

Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson came into the draft with a similar injury in 2016 and the word after he was taken in the first round was that he’d be able to play through it. He wound up having surgery in May after aggravating the injury, however, and missed the first half of the season as a result.

By the end of the week, we’ll know which team is rolling the dice that things will play out differently for Gary
 
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I was thinking about how important the test is for any given position. IMHO, it's least important for DT. QB, RB and WR all obviously need the ability to grasp the offensive concepts and execute accordingly. The same applies to the OL where everyone needs to understand blocking schemes so plays can develop. On defense, LB and CB need the ability to recognize an offensive formation and react appropriately. Even DE sometimes needs to take on some responsibilities to the outside depending on the offense. But DT? If a guy has great size and strength but doesn't know squat about reading an offense, all the coaches need to do is tell him, "OK, big fella. You line up right there and go tackle the guy who has the ball."

Ehhh..... I'd wager it's a bit more than that and he'd be taken to school fairly often in the NFL.
Taken from the local MLive rag:
https://www.mlive.com/lions/2019/04...fl-draft-profile-michigan-de-rashan-gary.html

When he’s asked to do the basic of simply winning the edge against a quick and ready tackle, it rarely works. Tackles seemed to learn this by Gary’s final year. They were able to extend outside and beat him to spots, and he appeared surprised and left without the counter move to compensate. The same seemed to happen when he looped in for a stunt and the pathway wasn’t as clear or obvious as he envisioned.

On a majority of snaps, Gary looks like a man without a plan. That can creep up in the running game as well, where he does a nice job of holding ground but can get taken upfield on any kind of delayed run.
 
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I just took the wonderlic sample test and chose my answers by the following:

1. If five answers, choose the middle answer.
2. If four answers, alternate between the second and third.
3. If yes/no or true/false choose yes or true.
4. If a specific answer was required, key in any number, or if a word was required key in a random sequence.
5. If multiple answers were required I'd just pick any two or three depending on how many were needed.

I got a 12/50 with this strategy!

How is a 9 even possible?

Here's a link to the sample test. Choose the one with 50 questions.
https://samplewonderlictest.com/
 
Devil's Advocate: He got the 9 by default as he made zero effort and just picked answers at random. Probably got a couple of the really hard ones correct by so doing.

Well... that's the answer i'm giving if I'm his agent... along with he's a B1G Academic AA and a great DT. Now... show me the money... and *I* will count it...
 
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Please post any more leaked Wonderlic scores in this thread. The real shame of Gary's score is he attends a school like Michigan, which is a great academic school (otherwise). I suspect Winovich's score was fine.
 
I fully expect Gary to get drafted high and then be a huge bust in the NFL. He won't make it four years in the league.

Typical Michigan Man.

Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.
 
Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.

Man, everything you write is true to a large degree, but a 9 on the wonderlic? From an Academic All Big Ten player? It's sort of embarrassing to the entire conference, way more embarrassing then anything Franklin has done. Almost as embarrassing as your team has been in the bowls and on the national stage.
 
Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.
Least Franklin knows how to use a tissue and not to go digging for gold.


 
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Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.

What year did you last win a Big 10 title again??? Casting stones from the front porch of your glass house again I see...
 
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Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.

Big Ten Titles:

FRANKLIN - 1
Hoke 2.0 - 0

All that matters in the end.
 
Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Are any of those guys still in the league besides Brady? I haven't heard of Graham or Jansen (was Jansen the speed skater that fell in the Olympics)?

At any rate, you should be happy that Gary is gone from that team. He was an overrated player that helped your team be overrated over the past couple of years. Which is a common pattern for Michigan's program, now that I think of it.

Nice to see you crawl out of your hole, JimJim. I fully expected you to comment on this thread.
 
Are any of those guys still in the league besides Brady? I haven't heard of Graham or Jansen (was Jansen the speed skater that fell in the Olympics)?

At any rate, you should be happy that Gary is gone from that team. He was an overrated player that helped your team be overrated over the past couple of years. Which is a common pattern for Michigan's program, now that I think of it.

Nice to see you crawl out of your hole, JimJim. I fully expected you to comment on this thread.
really?? someone hasnt been paying attention , especially to recent Superbowls
 
How is 9 possible? Easy.

Rush through the test as fast as you can knowing no team will care what a DL gets on the test
 
Another example of an athlete getting preferential treatment. Everyone in college took easy classes and were steered to easy professors. But to be an acedemic all-American does a disservice to the kid. The most important thing is for the student get an education which improves his quality of life. Joe always forced players to attend class to try and get an education. Not perfect but he tried.

I think the disservice was done to the player who was denied the honor of being an academic All-American because Michigan abandoned what little integrity it has left.
 
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Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.

Harbaugh is 5-7 btw against MSU, OSU and PSU.

You can worry about what your record is over other teams (which is still a losing one) while we worry about shining up conference championship trophies you guys haven't seen in 20 years.
 
I think the disservice was done to the player who was denied the honor of being an academic All-American because Michigan abandoned what little integrity it has left.

I had to look into what his major was - Bachelors in General Studies. From their website: https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/academics/lsa-degrees/bachelor-in-general-studies--b-g-s--.html

"The Bachelor in General Studies (B.G.S.) is a highly interdisciplinary degree that allows students to combine and explore multiple subjects. Students who choose to pursue a B.G.S. work closely with their Newnan Advising Center advisor to create a course plan that feeds their curiosity while meeting the College of LSA’s graduation requirements.

The B.G.S. is unique in that:

  • It does not require completion of distribution (Natural Sciences, Social Sciences, Humanities, etc.).
  • It does not require completion of second language proficiency.
  • It does not require a major.
  • It DOES require 60 credits of coursework elected at the 300-level or above."

Does Penn State have anything similar these days as far as a major that is basically make up whatever you want to study and here's your degree?


I also came across this post from an MSU site from a couple years back detailing how the Bachelors of General Studies is the landing spot for many of their football players - https://247sports.com/college/michi...mic-fraud-in-their-football-program-47646988/

"Michigan is a good school and I got a good education there," Harbaugh said. "But the athletic department has ways to get borderline guys in and, when they're in, they steer them to courses in sports communications. They're adulated when they're playing, but when they get out, the people who adulated them won't hire them.” Jim Harbaugh 2007

A decade later and Jim Harbaugh is the CEO of Michigan football and has done nothing to change the program’s academic scandal. It is an embarrassment to the University of Michigan, their athletic program, the state of Michigan, and college football in general.

Let's start with the freshmen. Breaking down the 2016 Michigan football roster of 85 scholarship football players, there are 20 true freshmen this fall. All twenty of them have majors undeclared. Michigan gets a pass on that given that the majority of these “student” athletes are three weeks into their rigorous academic future. Interestingly though, a spot check of MSU’s freshmen show only a handful of no preference majors.

The sophomore (high school 2015) class includes another 20 players. These twenty players feature 16 players in the College of Literature, Science, and the Arts (LSA) and all with undeclared majors. Two others are overall undeclared, while two are in the School of Kinesiology, major undeclared. Of the forty players Jim Harbaugh has recruited, not a single one has actually declared a major. Zero for forty.

The third year (high school 2014) class of 15 players is improved, by exactly one “student” athlete. Congratulations to Noah Furbush who is enrolled in Aerospace Engineering. Noah stands out among his Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior peers as the one player in 55 who has declared a major. Congratulations Mr. Furbush, you're at the top of the Delta pledge class.

Restating that in case a UM “Student” athlete is trying to read this: One (1) player out of 55 has declared a major. One!

So surely things must be better amongst the fourth year and fifth year players? Well, not so much. The junior/senior (high school 2013) class includes 18 scholarship players and only seven of them have managed to declare a major. Of the remaining 11 players, eight are undeclared in LSA and three are undeclared in Kinesiology. The seven that actually found a major are in LSA – African Studies (2), LSA -English (1), LSA – Sociology (1), Kinesiology – Sports Mgmt (1), and our old favorite LSA – General Studies (2).

So 61% of Michigan’s fourth year football players have not yet figured out a major? Worse, only eight players out of 73 players from class of 2013+ have declared a major? That is 90%!

That leaves us with the inspiring group of eleven players who are fifth year seniors. All eleven have actually declared a major! That is serious progress. Here is the breakdown:

5 – LSA General Studies
5 – LSA Sociology
1 – LSA Environmental
1 – LSA American Culture
1 – Kinesiology – Sports Management

So let’s review the “General Studies” degree as well as the “LSA – Sociology” degree. There are thirteen Michigan football players combined in these two majors. That represents 65% of the Michigan football team that has declared a major. That is an extremely high number when contrasted versus the just over one percent in those majors across the entire University of Michigan.

FACT: Over two thirds of the Michigan football team with majors are in degrees that account for 1% of the overall student population.

This is incredibly shocking behavior by Michigan and everyone seems to be ignoring it. The one exception of course is the 2007 Jim Harbaugh. Wonder what happened to that man?
 
Interestingly enough Michigan must be feeling embarrassed about all this as they do not list player majors on their roster any longer.

Edit: Barry corrected me that the major is on the site - but not front and center as PSU has the info listed.
 
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Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Steve Hutchinson, Brandon Graham, Jon Jansen , Ty Law , are also typical Michigan Men. Were they busts?

Perhaps you should just be worried about "We are a great team working on becoming elite". Even some in the national media laughed at that self absorbed statement by Franklin.

Franklin is also 1-3 versus Harbaugh, 3-11 versus MSU,OSU, Michigan since he took over. Sat next to a PSU student last year in AA and he just laughed/cried as Franklin kept switching out QB's.

Why don't you stay on topic; i.e. your dumb as a stump "2x Academic All American" defensive linemen.

Edit: even better, Michigan made a huge deal out of their record number of Academic All B1G players this season

Michigan football has 45 on Academic All-Big Ten team
Nick Baumgardner, Detroit Free PressPublished 5:48 p.m. ET Dec. 5, 2018
 
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