Tomlin played this whole thing just about as perfectly as possible. He made Bradshaw look like the idiot he is, and the entire matter is now closed after he got in the last word.
Mike Tomlin verbally flogs Terry Bradshaw
- Thread starter francofan
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Tomlin played this whole thing just about as perfectly as possible. He made Bradshaw look like the idiot he is, and the entire matter is now closed after he got in the last word.
With all the hits Ben takes and has taken they should have been looking for one or at least a capable backup a couple years ago.
Good backups and young phenoms cost money. Ben makes a lot of money. There is only so much they can tie up into the QB position.
He's already won you Steelers fans one ring, and came pretty darn close to getting you a second. Good heavens, the man's not even 45.
What do you call Landry Jones? Pittsburgh spent a 4th round pick on an insanely talented college qb with a monster arm that needs coaching to make better decisions. Obviously not a guarantee to be a good NFL qb, but definitely has the tools. Putting a player like him behind an star like Ben is about as close to drafting a capable backup as you could get without blowing a 1st-2nd round pick.
Don't forget that Landry was at one time considered a first round lock.
I don't consider Landry Jones to be a very good backup. Bruce Gradkowski or Charlie Batch have worked out in a pinch in the past. The Steelers backup quarterback is not their highest priority IMO. It wouldn't hurt to try to find someone new in the next couple of years. I just don't think it would be a good move to draft one in the first few rounds.
You know there was a time when I would have said its better for Tomlin to not even respond but that ended about July of 2012. Blast away Tomlin. LOL.
Not a capable back up. LOL.
INMO after his first year and definitely his second it was clear he wasn't a capable backup maybe 3rd string.
Oh yea I agree I don't mean wasting a high pick on what would be a backup.
I just think they might have tried a trade or FA market.
I'm not a Landry fan at all.
I would say there are more than 2 fan bases wouldn't want to take Tomlin. Green Bay and Seattle would be 2 and there would probably be some others as well but don't feel like going through them all
IMO, Tomlin is at least as good of a coach as Mike McCarthy or Pete Carroll. I would take Tomlin over either of them.
That's your opinion as a steeler fan. The post quoted said that there were 30 other fanbases that would want Tomlin as their coach. I gave 2 examples where they wouldn't agree with that as they are happy with their coach who has also win super bowls
Fair enough. If for whatever reason there was a head coaching vacancy at Green Bay or Seattle, and Mike Tomlin was available, I suspect that the respective fan bases would be happy to get Tomlin.
That was the 2013 draft. How many quarterbacks look good in their first 3-4 years when they only get 50 passing attempts over that period? Every quarterback from that class looks like garbage, at least if we got garbage it was in the 4th round instead of the 1st or 2nd. All of these QBs were taken before Jones. Jones at least appeared serviceable in the preseason, except Philly who also stomped us in the regular season.
You honestly want the Steelers to keep blowing top 4-5 round draft picks every year or two on quarterbacks hoping to strike gold when there are clear deficiencies at other positions?
Bringing in a solid backup qb through free agency would mean $4-5million, easy. We don't have the cap space to keep our starters, let along spend that on a backup.
I'm certainly not a Steeler fan (although I live in Pittsburgh and follow the team) - and while I agree that McCarthy and Carroll are also very good coaches, I'm not sure if you could say they're better than Tomlin. That said, my personal opinion is that Tomlin is better than both of them.
But, my earlier post could have been phrased differently as saying that the list of fanbases who wouldn't trade their coach for Tomlin is a very, very short one - and the only definite fanbases on that list are the Patriots...and the Steelers. Steelers fans, from my experience and as evidenced in this thread, don't appreciate how good they have it with Tomlin. I'm glad that for their fans' sake the Steelers' ownership feels differently.
This ^^^^ is what strikes me the most. Where is the upside in Bradshaw coming out and saying petty stuff like that, whether it is true or not? "Cheerleader?"
Unless Tomlin has done something that richly merits Bradshaw's ire, the whole thing reflects very poorly on Bradshaw. He was a great QB, and a winner, but that apparently has not carried over into his whole post-football life. The "aw shucks, good ol' boy" image he has striven to cultivate? He just blew that to pieces, as far as I am concerned.
Jason Whitlock has chimed in on his support for Tomlin not being a great coach. He tweeted:
Great: Belichick, Carroll, Payton. Very good: Marvin Lewis, McCarthy, Arians. Good: Tomlin, Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, Garrett, Kubiak
While his tweet is not disrespectful like Bradshaw's comments, I still think he is wrong. There is no way Marvin Lewis is a better coach than Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh. Lewis has yet to win a playoff game and a number of his players are out of control like Vontaze Burfict and Pacman Jones. While I think that Bruce Arians is a good coach, there is no way I think he is better than Tomlin. If Whitlock is going to characterize Carroll and Payton as great coaches, then Tomlin belongs in that group. At a minimum, Tomlin is a very good coach imo.
Great: Belichick, Carroll, Payton. Very good: Marvin Lewis, McCarthy, Arians. Good: Tomlin, Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, Garrett, Kubiak
While his tweet is not disrespectful like Bradshaw's comments, I still think he is wrong. There is no way Marvin Lewis is a better coach than Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh. Lewis has yet to win a playoff game and a number of his players are out of control like Vontaze Burfict and Pacman Jones. While I think that Bruce Arians is a good coach, there is no way I think he is better than Tomlin. If Whitlock is going to characterize Carroll and Payton as great coaches, then Tomlin belongs in that group. At a minimum, Tomlin is a very good coach imo.
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Marvin Lewis very good? Lol
Peyton Great? Lol
Whitlock is a moron
Those 2 could both be fired this offseason.
Nobody has said he is a bad coach, just not a great coach. I think he's a good coach, but I think he would've deservedly received some heat had he lost to Baltimore and failed to make the playoffs this year. I think Bradshaw could've been more diplomatic about his point. But the point remains that the Steelers will be good with or without Tomlin. Everyone now wants to see him beat a team he is the underdog to in the playoffs, especially with a team with Ben, brown , and bell. It's not often you have that kind of talent.
Tomlin has said that he doesn't believe his resume at this time is that of a great coach. I don't think it is that far off. Can you at least acknowledge that he is a very good coach?
Yes, Tomlin would have received some heat if he lost to the Ravens and didn't make the playoffs. But he didn't lose to the Ravens and he deserves praise for keeping his team together when they were 4-5 and going on to win the AFC North Championship. The Steelers are on a roll at a good time and it doesn't seem to be a stretch that they could win a couple of games or more in the playoffs. In case you haven't noticed, the Steelers have won 6 games in a row.
LOL, Pretty much agree with you.
Whitlock is a joke. He's (Whitlock) probably just pissed he cant turn this into a race issue.
To start with I wouldn't put Sean Payton in the Great catagory (he has some past issues) and his teams the last several seasons have been mediocre at best and thats with a good QB. Caroll maybe but is there a bigger "cheerleader" than Caroll? oh yea maybe Garrett. and speaking of Garrett I like the guy but is he allowed to make any decisions without asking Jer? Marvin Lewis? The same Marvin Lewis that Tomlin owns? the same Marvin Lewis that cant keep his players from costing his team games? Yea again I like Lewis but no way is he better than Tomlin. Kubiak has had 1 good year. sorry he doesn't have enough of a resume yet. The only coach INMO that might be better than Tomlin is Harbaugh and even that is debatable.
I think he's on the cusp of being a great coach.
but I think you are dead wrong in one point. no one knows if the Steelers will be good with or without Tomlin. Yea if they get Belichik I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will be better but thats it. There isn' t one other coach out there that I think is a "given" that would make them any better.
This is part of my point of view. Ben, Brown, and Bell should get us more than a last second almost stopped short of the goal line to barely make the playoffs. Also, that was just a dumb call to go short of the goal line on 2nd down with 14 seconds remaining. You had time for at least 2 or likely 3 shots if you did it smartly. But no, they go underneath short of the goal into 3 Ravens defenders and Brown somehow still stretches it across in a 2nd effort. If not, the ball is placed at the 1 and time may run out. This is the epitome of superior talent bailing out bad coaching.
My view on good or bad coaching is based on what you get relative to the talent available. Steelers have Superbowl talent right now. We won't get there possibly until Tomlin retires. Other teams that consistently underperform with bad coaching but superior talent - Notre Dame, Texas, half of the mid-tier SEC teams that pull in top 10 classes every year along with ND. There are some teams that very consistently over-achieve with superior coaching and as much as I hate them, New England is one. Take away their best players, no problem, they still just go out and win. I would put the Gophers in this category right now along with Wisconsin and a few others like Washington, Colorado appears to be a case this year, Temple before Matt left, and you'd have to say Penn State.
There is no way based on the recruiting of the last 5 years that Penn State should be at #5 right now. Our kids are getting outstanding coaching and mentoring. I think Franklin knows how to direct a program and our assistants are absolutely fantastic. The Moorhead and Limegrover additions were A+++ and hands down better than Franklin's original team.
Back to the Steelers, we should be winning a Superbowl with this talent. Someone make a convincing case that this team should be counting on lucky plays with time expiring to just make the playoffs or that we don't even have playoff team talent and I'll buy into the Tomlin support here. Yes, he won Cowher's last Superbowl. He did so only with Cowher's disciplined and sharp team. We have even more talent now but the team is not disciplined or sharp. They are often unfocused which is how they end up with frequent losses to subpar teams. That is coaching or lack thereof.
Heres's my issue with your first paragraph.
Do you know what the play call was?
Maybe it was supposed to go to the EZ and Brown broke it off for a reason.
Maybe the Coaching staff had such faith in Brown that they knew he'd get in.
Maybe Brown went to the staff and said get me the ball and I'll get it in.
Mabye it was a change at the line by Ben.
I don't know and unless the coaches, staff and players have come out and said what the play was supposed to be
its all speculation.
I beg to differ. If anyone's comments were immature they were Bradshaw's. Tomlin is generally mild mannered and reserved. When attacked such as in Bradshaw's comments, you need to characterize them for what they are, which I believe was what Tomlin did in his response.
"If not, the ball is placed at the 1 and time may run out. This is the epitome of superior talent bailing out bad coaching."
It was Ben's decision to throw the ball where he did not the coaches.
I could not agree more that Bradshaw's comments were immature. But why respond in a like manner? Tomlin was dead on with his retort, but the Hollywood Henderson reference I am questioning.
I don't believe that Tomlin responded in a like manner. Bradshaw insulted him. He did not respond in a tit for tat manner IMO. He stated that he grew up in Virginia as a Cowboys fan and was a Hollywood Henderson (and not Terry Bradshaw) fan. It was a subtle, back handed way of stating that Bradshaw's comments were out of line and Bradshaw is not that smart in a way that was not disrespectful. It also showed he had a sense of humor as the reporters in the room broke out in chuckles after he made this comment.
Was he mild mannered when he purposely tried to trip a Ravens player down the sideline and then was on camera grinning about it? Sorry but he doesn't represent the expectations that I have for my team.
Come on, man! He was grinning about it because he knows he can't do it, and is lucky to have gotten away with anything short of a big suspension.
Tomlin's OK. Not perfect, but honestly, what coach hasn't been tempted to stop a player on the other team. It's just human instinct - which should obviously be governed, but I'm not going to condemn him for this.
I don't believe it was on purpose. I believe it was an innocent mistake. I think a one game suspension was excessive. There is no way he could have done it on purpose given that there is no way to get away with interfering with a play with all of the cameras at a game.
I just looked at the replay. It was much less flagrant than I had recalled. OK, so he could actually be completely innocent in this one.
Either way, I don't think that makes him terrible, or a cheater, or a bad coach. He got flagged, he should have gotten flagged, and on we go.
The resume of Tomlin and Cowher are nearly identical, with a slight edge to Tomlin in most statistics. One is considered a great coach and is revered by Steelers fans. The other is constantly called disappointing, underwhelming, underachieving, unfit to coach the Steelers, a token hire, below average, unprofessional, etc.
There must be some glaring difference between the two coaches. Something that is plainly visible that would cause people to judge the two coaches differently based on a criteria other than results and statistics. For the life of me, I can't figure out what it could be. It's almost as if people were bias against Tomlin for some reason. *cough*
There must be some glaring difference between the two coaches. Something that is plainly visible that would cause people to judge the two coaches differently based on a criteria other than results and statistics. For the life of me, I can't figure out what it could be. It's almost as if people were bias against Tomlin for some reason. *cough*
I think this is pure race baiting.
Tomlin isn't perfect, but he's pretty good. I've never heard him blame his race for anything that's gone wrong, or for any criticism, including Bradshaw's remarks.
Obviously you do not have the same degree of self-discipline as Mike Tomlin.
Well, let's see if the stats can explain the disparity between attitudes.
| | Tomlin | Cowher |
| Wins/Year | 10.3 | 9.9 |
| Win % | 64.2% | 62.3% |
| Playoff Appearance % | 70% | 67% |
| % years top 10 defense | 60% | 67% |
| % winning seasons | 80% | 73% |
| Super Bowl Wins | 1 | 1 |
| Super Bowl Appearances | 2 | 2 |
| Division Super Bowl Wins | 2/10 | 2/15 |
| Playoff Winning % | 54.5% | 57.1% |
| Losing Seasons | 0 | 3 |
| Division teams in playoffs per year | 1.9 | 1.67 |
| % of seasons in top 10 scoring margin | 70% | 60% |
Nope.
So, ignoring a comparison which seems like it could be affected by racism is "disciplined." I guess suggesting reasons other than race to explain why the coach is held in lower regard even though the stats show a small advantage would be easy, you being so nonracist and all. So explain it.
OR it may be that Cowher inherited a team that had won an average of 7.6 games over the preceding decade and was short on talent including 7-9 the year before he took the reigns while Tomlin was handed the keys to a team that had averaged 10 wins a year for well over a decade with Cowher and had just went 15-1 and then 11-5 with a Superbowl win.
Why is it that 90% of losing arguments these days seem to find their way to calling the other guy racist?
Possible. Show your stats. Did Cower consistently, clearly outperform Tomlin after his first two years? How many years did Cowhwr take before he regularly outperformed Tomlin?
Lots of losing arguments raise "race baiting" in the same way for the same reasons.
So show us the analysis.
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