Mind-Blowing Ohio State recruiting stat

[Pennstate1985]

IMO, in many cases the individual wrestler has the much greater part to play in how their career turns out. Most top tier programs have very good coaching. The difference makers for me with regard to coaching are more mental and philosophical in nature rather than techniques. For example, many past Iowa wrestlers say that there is too much emphasis on winning rather than just becoming a better wrestler. Adds too much pressure. The other difference maker is a thoughtful approach to the season so that the wrestlers are peaking in March and not February. Lastly, individual scouting of opponents during nationals has helped PSU tremendously in "last matches won".

As for recruiting rankings, I think the further back you go, the more the rankings skewed towards overvaluing a larger class rather than a small quality class.

 

[SJP80]

Ryan is a much better recruiter of top wrestling talent than Franklin is of top end football talent.

This is more a reflection of top wrestling talent being in the PA/OH area. Franklin has to lure the top talent out of FL, CA, TX, SC, ETC to come to state college. While PA is OK with FB talent, it cant compete with those states. Much different dynamic.

 

[Nitlion1986]

This is more a reflection of top wrestling talent being in the PA/OH area. Franklin has to lure the top talent out of FL, CA, TX, SC, ETC to come to state college. While PA is OK with FB talent, it cant compete with those states. Much different dynamic.

Top PA talent and top legacy talent don't choose PSU.

If PSU locked down the top tier talent from PA, NJ, NY & MD their recruiting would be as impressive as anybody else's.

 

[El-Jefe]

Top PA talent and top legacy talent don't choose PSU.

If PSU locked down the top tier talent from PA, NJ, NY & MD their recruiting would be as impressive as anybody else's.

5* PA recruits Micah Parsons and Nick Singleton and Abdul Carter disagree with top PA talent choosing elsewhere. It's true that others have gone elsewhere -- and likewise our 5* starting QB is from Ohio.

In any case, this is a world that no longer exists. None of the schools ahead of PSU lock down their state plus bordering states, or even focuses within their conference footprints. Everybody recruits nationally. So locking down those 4 states would not make PSU equivalently talented as Ohio State, let alone Alabama or Georgia.

It also presumes that Rutgers and Maryland never compete for the same talent in their own/neighboring states ... OK, that part isn't so terribly off.

 

[SJP80]

5* PA recruits Micah Parsons and Nick Singleton and Abdul Carter disagree with top PA talent choosing elsewhere. It's true that others have gone elsewhere -- and likewise our 5* starting QB is from Ohio.

In any case, this is a world that no longer exists. None of the schools ahead of PSU lock down their state plus bordering states, or even focuses within their conference footprints. Everybody recruits nationally. So locking down those 4 states would not make PSU equivalently talented as Ohio State, let alone Alabama or Georgia.

It also presumes that Rutgers and Maryland never compete for the same talent in their own/neighboring states ... OK, that part isn't so terribly off.

In wrestling there is so much more talent in PA and OH. In FB, there is just so much more talent in GA, FL, AL than we have in PA. So, they only need to get some portion of their state and some from neighboring states ... all the while poaching some of the best from PA. I would say it is easier for GA, AL, FSU, UF to be appealing and poach a top PA kid then it is for a top GA, AL, FSU kid to go to PSU.

 

[vhsalum]

Top PA talent and top legacy talent don't choose PSU.

If PSU locked down the top tier talent from PA, NJ, NY & MD their recruiting would be as impressive as anybody else's.

No it wouldn't. That's basically what you have now. There are 12 players on the roster from the "south" and the rest is pretty much PA, NJ, MD and VA

Just not nearly the level or amount of talent in those states.

 

[Random4598375]

This is simple:

Ryan is very good at attracting talent; not so good at developing it.

Arguably, NATO and Martin not only didn't progress, they regressed.

He's also probably not as good as recognizing guys who are overrated as recruits based on their junior/HS accomplishments that won't translate well to college wrestling. Paddy and Hoffman seem like poster boys for this.

 

[El-Jefe]

In wrestling there is so much more talent in PA and OH. In FB, there is just so much more talent in GA, FL, AL than we have in PA. So, they only need to get some portion of their state and some from neighboring states ... all the while. poaching some of the best from PA. I would say it is easier for GA, AL, FSU, UF to be appealing and poach a top PA kid then it is for a top GA, AL, FSU kid to go to PSU.

Mostly agreed ... though Alabama and Georgia hardly limit themselves to adjacent states. For example, Stafford and Hurts are both from Texas.

 

[vhsalum]

He's also probably not as good as recognizing guys who are overrated as recruits based on their junior/HS accomplishments that won't translate well to college wrestling. Paddy and Hoffman seem like poster boys for this.

Paddy yes. You could see his deficiencies pretty clearly.

Hoffman? Man, that one just baffles me. He was so good and so athletic. I think being the wrong weight class sapped him of any chance of developing. Could barely stay on the mat.

 

[vhsalum]

Paddy yes. You could see his deficiencies pretty clearly.

Hoffman? Man, that one just baffles me. He was so good and so athletic. I think being the wrong weight class sapped him of any chance of developing. Could barely stay on the mat.

Actually, i take that back. Just looked at his wrestlestat. he was at the right weight class from his RS SO on. Yeah. Just didn't develop.

 

[nerfstate]

More from @smalls103

 

[jtothemfp]

IIRC Red recruited Cael hard. Cael was interested and active, but simultaneously recruiting Nick Lee.

Once Lee committed to PSU, the writing was on the wall for Red, and he went corn about 2 weeks later.

Here for every single future internet use of "went corn."

Thank you for this contribution to the lexicon.

 

[Random4598375]

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The amazing thing is that PSU got 5 top 20 recruits. Obviously, 4-timer Brooks is one of the best ever, and RBY got two championships, but the other three did next to nothing for Penn State (Beard was really good for Lehigh, but Joe Lee and Teasdale were total busts for high level recruits).

 

[El-Jefe]

The amazing thing is that PSU got 5 top 20 recruits. Obviously, 4-timer Brooks is one of the best ever, and RBY got two championships, but the other three did next to nothing for Penn State (Beard was really good for Lehigh, but Joe Lee and Teasdale were total busts for high level recruits).

Beard did finish 7th for PSU before transferring.

 

[smalls103]

https://rokfin.com/article/17509/Ten-Years-Of-Recruiting-Rankings

^^^ full article. i think you'll find it interesting. how about that, of PSU's 36 Big Boarders this decade, 50% were Top 10's. crazy.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

IMO, in many cases the individual wrestler has the much greater part to play in how their career turns out. Most top tier programs have very good coaching. The difference makers for me with regard to coaching are more mental and philosophical in nature rather than techniques. For example, many past Iowa wrestlers say that there is too much emphasis on winning rather than just becoming a better wrestler. Adds too much pressure. The other difference maker is a thoughtful approach to the season so that the wrestlers are peaking in March and not February. Lastly, individual scouting of opponents during nationals has helped PSU tremendously in "last matches won".

As for recruiting rankings, I think the further back you go, the more the rankings skewed towards overvaluing a larger class rather than a small quality class.

One thing I learned in my decades in finance is that all managerial systems have as their most important element "tone at the top", because those attitudes cascade throughout the organization. If there's too much emphasis on winning, rather than improvement-that starts with the HC.

As a distanced observer, it's very obvious to see that Cael sees winning as the result of doing the right things, rather than being the right thing.

 

[tullfan68]

LOL until the bucks win titles they can have the number 1 class every yr and it won't make a damn diff!

 

[Pennstate1985]

One thing I learned in my decades in finance is that all managerial systems have as their most important element "tone at the top", because those attitudes cascade throughout the organization. If there's too much emphasis on winning, rather than improvement-that starts with the HC.

As a distanced observer, it's very obvious to see that Cael sees winning as the result of doing the right things, rather than being the right thing.

Exactly. In my company, kpi's were process related to improve each division with the theory being that if you improve the underlying dynamics, the money will follow. Funny how that always works.

 

[KCLion]

Exactly. In my company, kpi's were process related to improve each division with the theory being that if you improve the underlying dynamics, the money will follow. Funny how that always works.

Hmmm, a wise man once communicated the same to his Nittany Lion football teams. Take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Hmmm, a wise man once communicated the same to his Nittany Lion football teams. Take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves.

It's ALWAYS true.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Carl went after Red pretty hard.

I'd actually use Red as my next example over on the OSU board if Wittlake doesn't work for you. Ha

 

[Random4598375]

Beard did finish 7th for PSU before transferring.

One 7th place finish between three top 20 recruits is definitely "next to nothing" in the PSU wrestling world.

 

[donboy6499]

Mostly agreed ... though Alabama and Georgia hardly limit themselves to adjacent states. For example, Stafford and Hurts are both from Texas.

This is kind of been my retort to those who have excused the recruiting shortcomings at Penn State as being a regional, talent is too far argument. Several Alabama players drafted in round 1/2 under Saban have been Ohio/Texas/Cali kids. Same with Georgia. Now while it’s true that those states have better talent than Pa too, and that’s the better argument, Alabama and Georgia also get a lot more guys from places Penn State just rarely gets talent.

 

[Pennstate1985]

One 7th place finish between three top 20 recruits is definitely "next to nothing" in the PSU wrestling world.

Those three guys had completely different paths. I don't consider Beard's career poor at all. In fact it's very similar to other wrestlers from 6-20, and it wasn't his fault that he only got one AA while at PSU.

Teasdale never wrestled one match for PSU, and was 2-2 in his career for Iowa. As we know, Gavin had other issues not related to wrestling.

Joe Lee is an enigma to me.

 

[Nitlion1986]

5* PA recruits Micah Parsons and Nick Singleton and Abdul Carter disagree with top PA talent choosing elsewhere. It's true that others have gone elsewhere -- and likewise our 5* starting QB is from Ohio.

In any case, this is a world that no longer exists. None of the schools ahead of PSU lock down their state plus bordering states, or even focuses within their conference footprints. Everybody recruits nationally. So locking down those 4 states would not make PSU equivalently talented as Ohio State, let alone Alabama or Georgia.

It also presumes that Rutgers and Maryland never compete for the same talent in their own/neighboring states ... OK, that part isn't so terribly off.

PSU won the recruiting battles for Carter and Singleton, but Micah didn't pick PSU until after Ohio State withdrew from the Parsons' recruiting process.
While they won those few battles, they did not get Swift, Harrison, Verse, Smith or Trotter.
They also haven't got numerous legacy recruits, ie McDuffie or this year the Carrol kid.
As far as recruiting nationally and or locally it would be nice if PSU had 'Bama's, Georgia's or OSU's recruiting footprint, but as of right now they don't. So if they truly want to compete at that level they need to do a much better job in their local footprint as they try to make impacts in the south, Texas and west.

If they simply got the best athlete's from the region I listed, they would be much more talented than they are and able to compete with the top tier teams.

 

[Random4598375]

Those three guys had completely different paths. I don't consider Beard's career poor at all. In fact it's very similar to other wrestlers from 6-20, and it wasn't his fault that he only got one AA while at PSU.

Teasdale never wrestled one match for PSU, and was 2-2 in his career for Iowa. As we know, Gavin had other issues not related to wrestling.

Joe Lee is an enigma to me.

I didn't say Beard's career was poor. In fact, I said the exact opposite that he did very well for Lehigh.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I didn't say Beard's career was poor. In fact, I said the exact opposite that he did very well for Lehigh.

Your point about Teasdale and Lee are true, but Beard has wrestled so far as a three time qualifier, two time AA. Who knows what he could have done if Dean never showed up. Several of our greats were low AA first year. Unlikely that he would have gotten to the top or Cael probably says no to Dean. I can't ding Beard for being recruited over.

 

[Random4598375]

Your point about Teasdale and Lee are true, but Beard has wrestled so far as a three time qualifier, two time AA. Who knows what he could have done if Dean never showed up. Several of our greats were low AA first year. Unlikely that he would have gotten to the top or Cael probably says no to Dean. I can't ding Beard for being recruited over.

Look, I understand you're a little touched in the head, so I'll cut you a little slack on reading comprehension, but I didn't ding him, I specifically said he had a good career at Lehigh, which is pretty much the opposite of that. I said the three of them did next to nothing at PSU, which is an objectively true statement.

 

[IndyLion1]

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What I get from this is with every single advantage in the world, Iowa isn't very good at recruiting or developing talent (the primary job of a D1 NCAA wrestling coach), and nobody in D1 is worse than Tom Ryan at developing wrestlers, and finally (per Iowa fans) PSU coaches can't develop their wrestlers... BUT they are much, much better at it than any other coaching staff in D1 wrestling.

 

[El-Jefe]

I can't ding Beard for being recruited over.

Especially since he wasn't recruited over.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Look, I understand you're a little touched in the head, so I'll cut you a little slack on reading comprehension, but I didn't ding him, I specifically said he had a good career at Lehigh, which is pretty much the opposite of that. I said the three of them did next to nothing at PSU, which is an objectively true statement.

I’ll forego the personal insults because yours puts a perfect light on you. Speaking of comprehension, the point is that you can’t say that someone is doing “next to nothing” at PSU when they only had one official year starting at PSU and AA’d that year!! Seems an odd hill to die on since RBY, Q, and Zain had similar first years. So yes, you did ding him unnecessarily.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Especially since he wasn't recruited over.

Semantics. You don’t get on the team without Cael’s approval so it doesn’t really matter who initiated it. Dean showing up led to Beard leaving.

 

[Random4598375]

I’ll forego the personal insults because yours puts a perfect light on you. Speaking of comprehension, the point is that you can’t say that someone is doing “next to nothing” at PSU when they only had one official year starting at PSU and AA’d that year!! Seems an odd hill to die on since RBY, Q, and Zain had similar first years. So yes, you did ding him unnecessarily.

Finishing 7th one year is "next to nothing" relative to PSU wrestling for a top 20 recruit, regardless of the circumstances. It's not "dinging" him or casting any qualitative judgment on his entire wrestling career (most of which is outside PSU). I don't get why that's so hard for you to understand. Actually, I do get why, but whatever.

 

[Delcolion915]

You will have to forgive me but I have been over at GIA again, and I was under the assumption that Cael collects the money from the slush fund, then pays the top 7 or 8 pound for pound kids in the nation, signs every one of them, then everyone goes back and plays dodge ball for 4 years while they all win championships in which every wrestler they face throws their matches to them in exchange for even more money. 😂

 

[Pennstate1985]

Finishing 7th one year is "next to nothing" relative to PSU wrestling for a top 20 recruit, regardless of the circumstances. It's not "dinging" him or casting any qualitative judgment on his entire wrestling career (most of which is outside PSU). I don't get why that's so hard for you to understand. Actually, I do get why, but whatever.

lol. Thanks for proving my point. He should not have been mentioned since he was only a starter here for one year. Hardly a large enough sample size wouldn’t you agree?

 

[El-Jefe]

Finishing 7th one year is "next to nothing" relative to PSU wrestling for a top 20 recruit, regardless of the circumstances. It's not "dinging" him or casting any qualitative judgment on his entire wrestling career (most of which is outside PSU). I don't get why that's so hard for you to understand. Actually, I do get why, but whatever.

Who would like to volunteer to tell RBY that his 8th place freshman year was "next to nothing"?

 

[PSU Mike]

Who would like to volunteer to tell RBY that his 8th place freshman year was "next to nothing"?

Easier than telling Kerk, I suppose.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Easier than telling Kerk, I suppose.

POTY nomination.

 

[Delcolion915]

Easier than telling Kerk, I suppose.

This just in: According to GIA, Kueter is "closing the gap" 😂

 

[Pennstate1985]

This just in: According to GIA, Kueter is "closing the gap" 😂

Kueter lost more weight?