Marshall...agreed....from a supposed "tough" Airborne Ranger..how hard would it have been to say these things about JVP 4 yrs ago? Some friend..
More from Bruce Heim
- Thread starter eloracv
- Start date
This is the perplexing thing. Also, no credibility was ever established regarding those awarded money. It was a negotiation. Penn State made offers and the lawyers decided whether to accept or not. They were not "vetted". Especially Matt. He deserved nothing.
Here's the problem: these kids weren't in Penn State's care. As harsh as it sounds, Penn State had no duty to these kids. The Penn State athletic department didn't have any obligation to understand how pedophiles operate and how to identify them.
On the other hand, The Second Mile had a legal duty to ensure that the kids in their care weren't harmed. They had a duty to keep an eye out for suspicious behavior and take measures to ensure kids were protected. FFS the head of the organization was a psychologist. Ignorance is not an excuse for Bruce Heim, Jack Raykovtiz or anyone else in a supervisory role at The Second Mile.
41 Aoshiro, 4 minutes ago
no argument here....but the media certainly made it PSU's wrongdoing didn't they....of course Corbett and all his fraud friends at the 2M were all for it.....lets blame the dead guy
On the other hand, The Second Mile had a legal duty to ensure that the kids in their care weren't harmed. They had a duty to keep an eye out for suspicious behavior and take measures to ensure kids were protected. FFS the head of the organization was a psychologist. Ignorance is not an excuse for Bruce Heim, Jack Raykovtiz or anyone else in a supervisory role at The Second Mile.
41 Aoshiro, 4 minutes ago
no argument here....but the media certainly made it PSU's wrongdoing didn't they....of course Corbett and all his fraud friends at the 2M were all for it.....lets blame the dead guy
Hey, Bruce. Did you know Katherine Genovese? Here's what she had to say about The Second Mile's handling of Jerry Sandusky:
RE: TSM not knowing about 1998, either Heim is lying OR CYS/DPW didn't follow state law/policy which REQUIRED them to inform TSM. Either way someone messed up big time and needs to be held accountable.
Also, I agree that it isn't rare for kids to be showering with adults in public facilities however that is NOT the same thing as what was reported to TSM in 2001....JS showering with a kid alone, late at night in a restricted access building such as lasch. It's extremely inappropriate and Raykovitz should have followed the LAW and fully reported it to CC CYS so they could determine if JS's access to kids should be revoked.
Since when does a real estate guy get to advise a Phd in Psychology (Raykovitz) and mandated reporter on whether or not an employee inappropriately showering late at night with a TSM kid should be shared with the full TSM board and CC CYS?? Heim can have all the opinions he wants but it's not his call. Mandated reporters have to report the incident every time no matter what personal opinions they may or may not have...hence the term Mandatroy reporter....smh
Didn't Heim/JR/TSM think it was a red flag that PSU was on their doorstep complaining about JS's late night showering behavior/horsing around and revoked JS's guest privileges?? Come on man....
I too would like to hear his answers about the shredder truck....but I doubt any media folks EVER ask him about it or even know about it for that matter.
Also, I agree that it isn't rare for kids to be showering with adults in public facilities however that is NOT the same thing as what was reported to TSM in 2001....JS showering with a kid alone, late at night in a restricted access building such as lasch. It's extremely inappropriate and Raykovitz should have followed the LAW and fully reported it to CC CYS so they could determine if JS's access to kids should be revoked.
Since when does a real estate guy get to advise a Phd in Psychology (Raykovitz) and mandated reporter on whether or not an employee inappropriately showering late at night with a TSM kid should be shared with the full TSM board and CC CYS?? Heim can have all the opinions he wants but it's not his call. Mandated reporters have to report the incident every time no matter what personal opinions they may or may not have...hence the term Mandatroy reporter....smh
Didn't Heim/JR/TSM think it was a red flag that PSU was on their doorstep complaining about JS's late night showering behavior/horsing around and revoked JS's guest privileges?? Come on man....
I too would like to hear his answers about the shredder truck....but I doubt any media folks EVER ask him about it or even know about it for that matter.
Holy Cow. He and Jack Raykovitz are untouchable. That is what Heim believes and he has demonstrated it again by writing this Op-Ed. Hell, he may even be right.
No one is untouchable. Except young children left in the care of adults.
While I agree that TSM had a duty to those kids, I think it's incorrect to argue that Penn State had no duty to them. When the children were on Penn State property with permission (Penn State was clearly aware that Jerry was bringing them onto PSU property and did not object until 2001, even if it's arguable what they knew Jerry was doing with them), the University likely did have a duty of care under basic premises liability. If instead of sexual abuse Jerry brought children onto PSU property and a child was injured in the weight room, PSU would almost certainly have a duty and be liable for those injuries. To my knowledge, the type of injury suffered matters much less than the fact that there was an injury, as long as the standards for duty are met. I suspect that that scenario is what Paterno was referring to when he expressed his disfavor towards Jerry continuing to bring children to football facilities after retirement.
I look forward to the media twisting this quote from Mr. Heim, similar to that of JoePa. Apparently TSM could have done more and Heim just confirmed it.
This guy lives in State College, interacts with a wide group of people and is just trying to save face so when he has a cocktail in his hand at the next function he sounds credible.
I agree with Wendy, it would be very useful to get this out in the broader news zone.
The first one runs for cover, who is next?
I agree with Wendy, it would be very useful to get this out in the broader news zone.
The first one runs for cover, who is next?
So if Jerry had brought the kids into a Walmart bathroom to abuse them, did Walmart have a "duty" to be able to recognize a pedophile?
These kids weren't in Penn State's care. They were in the care of The Second Mile.
Heim is just - shamelessly - trying to wrap himself in the "JVP Flag" in order to curry favor with Penn Staters.
It will likely - to a significant extent - work (ala Jake "409" Corman)
It is what it is.
The more people that see through his display of unmitigated gall, the better.
It will likely - to a significant extent - work (ala Jake "409" Corman)
It is what it is.
The more people that see through his display of unmitigated gall, the better.
My comment on the article:
While I applaud Mr. Heim for setting the record straight, he is a few years late. Perhaps his explanation will be very helpful in extinguishing what is still smoldering away like a Centralia mine fire. The simple fact that Second Mile leadership was aware of the University's complaint and CHOSE TO DO NOTHING is evidence that there WAS NO "Conspiracy of Silence" from PSU.
Unfortunately, had Mr. Heim stood up against this injustice and assault against the local and larger community back in November 2011, it would have been EXTREMELY helpful in turning that false narrative when Linda Kelly, John Surma and friends sparked that tsunami sh*tstorm in the media. The reasons why he did not at the time and HAS NOT since, are lacking.
Various grassroots organizations, filled with thousands of rational, vocal individuals, formed and stood up to this false narrative and injustice. These are not conspiracy theorists - they are everyday people, everyday Penn Staters. People that were smeared, harassed and had personal and property damage as a result of the lack of true leadership from our Board of Trustees and the leadership at Second Mile. The sewage that flowed (and still continues to do so) across our social media streams and in social settings calling us Child Rape Enabling - Football Crazed - Kool-Aid Kultists - Paternopologists, is mentally, emotionally and physically destructive.
We believed Lynne Abraham when she said she'd conduct a full investigation.
We wanted to believe Louis Freeh when he said he'd conduct a full, fair investigation.
We had hoped that our Office of Attorney General was really "Protecting Pennsylvania Families" as emblazoned at the time across their website.
Instead - we got empty promises, backchanneling, backroom decisions, concealment, private agendas, public relations spin, a mantra of "moving on" in complete darkness - transparency and sunshine be damned.
Will Mr. Heim stand up to Louis Freeh and demand that he return to campus to defend that piece of garbage we all paid for; support Dr. Spanier and the Alumni Trustees in their efforts in finally placing Freeh on the ash heap of history; excoriate the corrupt conduct of our former Office of Attorney General in this; demand that the bogus charges on Messrs. Curley, Schultz & Spanier be dropped; demand open hearings into Second Mile, CYS and the failures of our child welfare system in this and insist that the University HONOR JOE NOW - and do so without an asterisk?
This OpEd from Mr. Heim published in major outlets, like NYT, WSJ, WaPo, etc would be EXTREMELY beneficial to hundreds of thousands of Penn Staters out there, who also happen to be parents, grandparents & caregivers across the commonwealth, in peeling off that Scarlet Letter our OAG, Louis Freeh, Old Main & Second Mile were all too happy to slap upon us.
While I applaud Mr. Heim for setting the record straight, he is a few years late. Perhaps his explanation will be very helpful in extinguishing what is still smoldering away like a Centralia mine fire. The simple fact that Second Mile leadership was aware of the University's complaint and CHOSE TO DO NOTHING is evidence that there WAS NO "Conspiracy of Silence" from PSU.
Unfortunately, had Mr. Heim stood up against this injustice and assault against the local and larger community back in November 2011, it would have been EXTREMELY helpful in turning that false narrative when Linda Kelly, John Surma and friends sparked that tsunami sh*tstorm in the media. The reasons why he did not at the time and HAS NOT since, are lacking.
Various grassroots organizations, filled with thousands of rational, vocal individuals, formed and stood up to this false narrative and injustice. These are not conspiracy theorists - they are everyday people, everyday Penn Staters. People that were smeared, harassed and had personal and property damage as a result of the lack of true leadership from our Board of Trustees and the leadership at Second Mile. The sewage that flowed (and still continues to do so) across our social media streams and in social settings calling us Child Rape Enabling - Football Crazed - Kool-Aid Kultists - Paternopologists, is mentally, emotionally and physically destructive.
We believed Lynne Abraham when she said she'd conduct a full investigation.
We wanted to believe Louis Freeh when he said he'd conduct a full, fair investigation.
We had hoped that our Office of Attorney General was really "Protecting Pennsylvania Families" as emblazoned at the time across their website.
Instead - we got empty promises, backchanneling, backroom decisions, concealment, private agendas, public relations spin, a mantra of "moving on" in complete darkness - transparency and sunshine be damned.
Will Mr. Heim stand up to Louis Freeh and demand that he return to campus to defend that piece of garbage we all paid for; support Dr. Spanier and the Alumni Trustees in their efforts in finally placing Freeh on the ash heap of history; excoriate the corrupt conduct of our former Office of Attorney General in this; demand that the bogus charges on Messrs. Curley, Schultz & Spanier be dropped; demand open hearings into Second Mile, CYS and the failures of our child welfare system in this and insist that the University HONOR JOE NOW - and do so without an asterisk?
This OpEd from Mr. Heim published in major outlets, like NYT, WSJ, WaPo, etc would be EXTREMELY beneficial to hundreds of thousands of Penn Staters out there, who also happen to be parents, grandparents & caregivers across the commonwealth, in peeling off that Scarlet Letter our OAG, Louis Freeh, Old Main & Second Mile were all too happy to slap upon us.
In short, I do not believe so, although it would likely come down to a jury's determination. The key distinction, I think, is that although Jerry (and the child) would likely be business invitees at Walmart, the question becomes whether Walmart knew or should have known that opening up their public restrooms could have reasonably resulted in injury. In that case, I don't believe that a jury would accept the contention that Walmart should reasonably have realized that the mere nature of having public restrooms would result in injury to those they invite into their stores, provided that there aren't extraneous factors of the restrooms making them especially dangerous.
The key distinction for Penn State would be whether Jerry and the children were licensees, meaning they were given permission to enter the property based on the owner's consent, or invitees, meaning that they were invited onto the premises for purposes of business with the university (which would, admittedly, be a tough sell even given the mutual benefit of PSU's connection and promotion of the Second Mile). If Jerry was considered to be a licensee - which is likely, considering he absolutely wasn't a trespasser - Penn State would need to have reason to know that the condition, in this case, Jerry bringing children alone to the weight room and showers, could involve an unreasonable risk of harm, that Penn State failed to warn the injured party of that risk or failed to correct the risk, and that the injured party would have no reasonable knowledge of the risk. The question then becomes whether Penn State had reason to believe that Jerry bringing children to PSU facilities alone after hours - including weight facilities and showers - carried an unreasonable risk of harm. It'd need to go before a jury, but statements like an expressed concern for liability and allowing Jerry to continue the practice wouldn't help.
I will, after thinking it over further, revise my original statement to state that I'm not sure whether Penn State would be liable for those injuries. But, the law is quite clear-cut that the University absolutely has a duty to the children that Jerry brought onto PSU property - the question instead is not whether the University had a duty, but whether the duty was actually breached. That's a question that I can't definitively provide an answr.
This thread is about Bruce Heim and The Second Mile. I regret that I allowed you to distract us from that.
The Second Mile had a duty to ensure that the children in its care were not harmed. Clearly they did not fulfill their duty.
Period.
If walmart had its own police department and the chief of police were called and if several of it's upper management were emailing each other and discussing exact steps to be taken (and didnt') including notifying "the other agency" then I think walmart would have some liability issues just like Penn State did.
You are completely off your rocker today................ FFS !!!!!
Deflect, deflect, deflect.
These kids were in the care of The Second Mile. They met Jerry through The Second Mile. Jerry was employed by The Second Mile.
It is ludicrous for Heim to assert that The Second Mile is blameless because they didn't know. The point is that they had a DUTY to supervise Sandusky's interactions with children and they should have known.
At the very least, Heim should feel awful that he told Raykovitz not to purse Curley's report and he should be apologizing to the Penn State community for his mistake, not making excuses for it.
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I choose to take information and learn. Hind sight is 20-20 and everyone wants to point fingers now that JS is convicted and in prison. If everyone here who knew Jerry personally or even knew people (who were friendly with him), were honest, I believe they would admit to being very surprised.
I think that JR and KG should have been more professional and failed to take the measures necessary to protect the children in their care. The same must be applied to The Commonwealth Agencies that did not properly document and follow up with issues concerning JS.
If professional child care experts failed to act, it becomes difficult to crucify football coaches, administrators and others.
As the investigation of JS gained momentum, certain people were probably forewarned and it was every man for himself. Every day life it seems, regarding justice in The Commonwealth.
I think that JR and KG should have been more professional and failed to take the measures necessary to protect the children in their care. The same must be applied to The Commonwealth Agencies that did not properly document and follow up with issues concerning JS.
If professional child care experts failed to act, it becomes difficult to crucify football coaches, administrators and others.
As the investigation of JS gained momentum, certain people were probably forewarned and it was every man for himself. Every day life it seems, regarding justice in The Commonwealth.
Agreed. I responded to Mr. Heim's statement of support to JVP. I guess, in summary, better late than never. It goes without saying that the biggest injustice in this mess is the continuing exposure of at risk children to abuse.
Why did Heim instruct that Jerry be given keys to the downtown Hilton?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Clark_and_the_Hot_Nuts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Clark_and_the_Hot_Nuts
Step one would be to determine if anyone at walmart was made aware of a CRIME or suspected CRIME vs. inappropriate behavior that weirded someone out. Also you need to stipulate that the one and only witness never made a written statement/police report to the walmart police when trying to evaluate how the walmart folks responded.
It still has yet to be proven that PSU admins did NOT inform CC CYS about the '01 incident or whether MM's told them about suspected child abuse vs. inappropriate shower that made him uncomfortable (right now it's their word against his).
Either way it doesn't matter because the state themselves have admitted CSS weren't mandatory reports in 2001 and even with that in mind they still informed an OUTSIDE entity (JR at TSM) that just so happened to be mandatory reporters and had direct control over JS's access to kids. As soon as they passed the info onto TSM it was game over as far as the PSU admin's involvement is concerned IMO.
Towny sooner or later you're going to have to admit the State doesn't have crap against CSS and that MM himself told TC, when he called a few weeks later to follow up, that he wasn't dissatisfied and that nothing more needed to be done besides revoking JS's guest privileges and informing TSM. So if more needed to be done in 2001 how exactly is it the admin's fault instead of MM's??
If MM felt MORE needed to be done he should have said so in 2001.You can't keep passing MM's failure to do more or express dissatisfaction onto the admins....that falls squarely on his shoulders.
It's a red herring. A smokescreen. Jerry Sandusky was The Second Mile's responsibility.
It could be debated.....but in my opinion it isn't ("better late than never", that is).
Not based on why I (firmly) believe he made those statements.
If Heim is untouchable, then he must be tight with Frank Sheeran...'cause nobody f*cks with Frank.
Heim represented two groups...1) "Vietnam era West Pointers", and 2) "Sandusky era Second Milers". The fact that he conflates that PSU's rescinding of the offer based on his inclusion in the second group as a dishonor the first group is an arrogant spin, especially given that he announced that he wouldn't withdraw from the ceremonies as it would implicate that the Second Mile had done something improper. At that point, he squarely made his appearance 100% as a "Sandusky era Second Miler" and 0% as a "Vietnam era West Pointer'. Simply put, Heim choose to make an ultimatum and he paid for his miscalculation. In military terms, he choose to make this a hill to die on.
Heck, he could have offered it last week and he didn't.
Good sniffin out, there, toadie. In other words....
Heim wrote his missive for all the wrong reasons.
But they took away his ceremonial coin flip!
So for you folks in the area I have 1 BIG question with 4-5 others.
The Big question. - How can you keep this guy talking? By doing so he will shine a light on the 2M that no one else has. He could be the gift that keeps giving.
Specifically, as stated in this thread followup questions I would love the media toask him
. 98 was never reported to 2M - Mr. Heim are you saying that CYS and or DPW didn't do their duty by notifying the 2M as they were required?
. No one at 2M had any idea until 2011 - Mr Heim why was JS relieved of his duties in 2009 if no one at 2M had any idea until 2011?
. Mr Heim,do you have any idea why and who ordered all 2M documents to be shredded soon after JS arrest?
. Mr Heim, can you tell us which organizations investigated the 2M so we can review their findings?
. Finally, when Penn State revoked the shower privledges to JS why did you feel it was important to make the facilities at the Hilton Garden available to JS and the 2M children?
Seems to me the more he talks the more questions might arise someone in the media might finally ask.
The Big question. - How can you keep this guy talking? By doing so he will shine a light on the 2M that no one else has. He could be the gift that keeps giving.
Specifically, as stated in this thread followup questions I would love the media toask him
. 98 was never reported to 2M - Mr. Heim are you saying that CYS and or DPW didn't do their duty by notifying the 2M as they were required?
. No one at 2M had any idea until 2011 - Mr Heim why was JS relieved of his duties in 2009 if no one at 2M had any idea until 2011?
. Mr Heim,do you have any idea why and who ordered all 2M documents to be shredded soon after JS arrest?
. Mr Heim, can you tell us which organizations investigated the 2M so we can review their findings?
. Finally, when Penn State revoked the shower privledges to JS why did you feel it was important to make the facilities at the Hilton Garden available to JS and the 2M children?
Seems to me the more he talks the more questions might arise someone in the media might finally ask.
Gotta believe that he's likely checking this site and will soon turn off the faucet. JMHO.
You can retract the last paragraph. PSU, at most, could be sued in civil court, but proving they were liable for the 2001 incident would be very difficult to prove in light of what they were told by police and child protective services in 1998.
As for the law, it ABSOLUTELY EXCLUDES the University officials who have been criminally charged.
§ 6344. Employees having contact with children; adoptive and foster parents.
(a) Applicability.--Beginning December 31, 2014, this section applies to the following individuals:
(a.1) School employees.--This section shall apply to school employees as follows:
(1) School employees governed by the provisions of the act of March 10, 1949 (P.L.30, No.14), known as the Public School Code of 1949, shall be subject to the provisions of section 111 of the Public School Code of 1949, except that this section shall apply with regard to the certification required under subsection (b)(2).
(2) (i) School employees not governed by the provisions of the Public School Code of 1949 shall be governed by this section.
(ii) This paragraph shall not apply to an employee of an institution of higher education whose direct contact with children, in the course of employment, is limited to either:
(A) prospective students visiting a campus operated by the institution of higher education; or
(B) matriculated students who are enrolled with the institution.
