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More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?

Predictably Stalions took full responsibility for everything and said no coaches knew
I don't believe that. They're going to have to convince people that Stalions was just a low level staffer that decided to try to make himself look like genius by filming and memorizing the play calls. Even then Harbaugh can still be held accountable but if people buy that it could save Michigan.
Going to be interesting.
 
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Predictably Stalions took full responsibility for everything and said no coaches knew
I don't believe that. They're going to have to convince people that Stalions was just a low level staffer that decided to try to make himself look like genius by filming and memorizing the play calls. Even then Harbaugh can still be held accountable but if people buy that it could save Michigan.
Going to be interesting.

Link? Not seen this yet.
 
That's the same quotes from last night it seems to me.

I don't think it saves them, but it's the only move they had here.
Oh yeah, agreed it's nothing Earth shattering. It's their best move
That's the play the attorneys are making. If someone went rouge the penalties will be almost nothing. So, now, it comes down to proving who knew or should have known.
 
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Oh yeah, agreed it's nothing Earth shattering. It's their best move
That's the play the attorneys are making. If someone went rouge the penalties will be almost nothing. So, now, it comes down to proving who knew or should have known.

The rules aren't ambiguous on this. Harbaugh should have known. Nothing needs to be proven regarding his knowledge or lack thereof in order to penalize him. He's also working on his second set of violations thanks to their covid recruiting so he's a repeat offender. Michigan can drag this out but there's really not any ambiguity about what Stalions did, and the NCAA rules offer Harbaugh no way to shield himself through ignorance.
 
The rules aren't ambiguous on this. Harbaugh should have known. Nothing needs to be proven regarding his knowledge or lack thereof in order to penalize him. He's also working on his second set of violations thanks to their covid recruiting so he's a repeat offender. Michigan can drag this out but there's really not any ambiguity about what Stalions did, and the NCAA rules offer Harbaugh no way to shield himself through ignorance.
The NCAA--yes although they have discretion on what the penalty/penalties are to Michigan
The Big Ten is the one that has to figure it out. As the letter you shared indicates, Michigan is going to fight and fight hard. The Big Ten won't do much.
 
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Oh yeah, agreed it's nothing Earth shattering. It's their best move That's the play the attorneys are making. If someone went rouge the penalties will be almost nothing. So, now, it comes down to proving who knew or should have known.
Oh yeah, agreed it's nothing Earth shattering. It's their best move That's the play the attorneys are making. If someone went rouge the penalties will be almost nothing. So, now, it comes down to proving who knew or should have known.
Oh yeah, agreed it's nothing Earth shattering. It's their best move That's the play the attorneys are making. If someone went rouge the penalties will be almost nothing. So, now, it comes down to proving who knew or should have known.
The NCAA--yes although they have discretion on what the penalty/penalties are to Michigan
The Big Ten is the one that has to figure it out. As the letter you shared indicates, Michigan is going to fight and fight hard. The Big Ten won't do much.

Big Ten may or may not. NCAA probably hammers them. The defiance isn’t going to earn them leniency on top of the multiple violations.

No idea what my phone did w the quotes on that one.
 
Big Ten may or may not. NCAA probably hammers them. The defiance isn’t going to earn them leniency on top of the multiple violations.

No idea what my phone did w the quotes on that one.
no worries about the quotes
I'm curious to see what the NCAA does. My gut tells me they come down hard on Harbaugh but not Michigan. I think they're afraid of Michigan.
 
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Have a theory on all the leaks coming from NCAA and Big10. I believe they have solid evidence on sign stealing violation. I believe its potentially the biggest cheating scandal in sports. The NCAA and Big10 know they cannot act on what’s been found until formal process is concluded. That will take 1-2 years to complete. I believe they’re trying to pressure Michigan to put and end to this now. Unfortunately, Michigan isn’t playing along. In the end this will give the NCAA and Big 10 one hell of a black eye. If Michigan continues to stay hands off, NCAA will be forced to levy some of the harshest punishment we’ve seen since SMU or PSU.
 
Have a theory on all the leaks coming from NCAA and Big10. I believe they have solid evidence on sign stealing violation. I believe its potentially the biggest cheating scandal in sports. The NCAA and Big10 know they cannot act on what’s been found until formal process is concluded. That will take 1-2 years to complete. I believe they’re trying to pressure Michigan to put and end to this now. Unfortunately, Michigan isn’t playing along. In the end this will give the NCAA and Big 10 one hell of a black eye. If Michigan continues to stay hands off, NCAA will be forced to levy some of the harshest punishment we’ve seen since SMU or PSU.
Maybe--but I still don't think the NCAA will ever do anything big again
If Stalions doesn't cooperate they're going to need evidence that he didn't just go rouge and do this on his own.
I do agree the Big Ten/NCAA were bluffing and Michigan called that bluff.
 
No, the league doesn't care about the coaches. Input is great. Everyone has input. You and others keep using the coaches as some kind of proof immediate action is required. They're not.

Okay, if half the team dies we'll see what happens.

And you can "want" that. I fully understand that. The problem is the "immediate action" part. It's just not realistic. Doesn't mean it can't happen but it's not likely. Has it ever happened prior?
Maybe I'm wrong here, but doesn't the commissioner work for the teams. Like Goddel works for all the NFL teams.
 
if a party to the contract willfully, knowingly and without merit does something to diminish the value of the tv contract, there is clear grounds not only to get an injunction for immediate relief, b
I am a lawyer and you are just mouthing garbage that you know nothing about. You could say that Michigan by its cheating "willfully, knowingly and without merit [did] does something to diminish the value of the tv contract" because the public doesn't like watching cheaters. If a school cheats and gets punished the broadcaster knows that there are rules that govern the teams in the conference and wouldn't have a claim against the Big Ten.
 
I am a lawyer and you are just mouthing garbage that you know nothing about. You could say that Michigan by its cheating "willfully, knowingly and without merit [did] does something to diminish the value of the tv contract" because the public doesn't like watching cheaters. If a school cheats and gets punished the broadcaster knows that there are rules that govern the teams in the conference and wouldn't have a claim against the Big Ten.

He's a devious fool regurgitating what is being said by his brethren.
 
Have a theory on all the leaks coming from NCAA and Big10. I believe they have solid evidence on sign stealing violation. I believe its potentially the biggest cheating scandal in sports. The NCAA and Big10 know they cannot act on what’s been found until formal process is concluded. That will take 1-2 years to complete. I believe they’re trying to pressure Michigan to put and end to this now. Unfortunately, Michigan isn’t playing along. In the end this will give the NCAA and Big 10 one hell of a black eye. If Michigan continues to stay hands off, NCAA will be forced to levy some of the harshest punishment we’ve seen since SMU or PSU.
yeah right

the punishment will be that the coach is suspended for the first five plays against Fresno State
 
I am a lawyer and you are just mouthing garbage that you know nothing about. You could say that Michigan by its cheating "willfully, knowingly and without merit [did] does something to diminish the value of the tv contract" because the public doesn't like watching cheaters. If a school cheats and gets punished the broadcaster knows that there are rules that govern the teams in the conference and wouldn't have a claim against the Big Ten.
The networks could sue the league for breach of the contract for not enforcing its oss was n rules and diminishing the value of the contract.
 
The rules aren't ambiguous on this. Harbaugh should have known. Nothing needs to be proven regarding his knowledge or lack thereof in order to penalize him. He's also working on his second set of violations thanks to their covid recruiting so he's a repeat offender. Michigan can drag this out but there's really not any ambiguity about what Stalions did, and the NCAA rules offer Harbaugh no way to shield himself through ignorance.

Such nonsense that Hairball was completely in the dark.... are we supposed to believe that Stalions wasn't being reimbursed for all these tickets, airfare.... high-tech surveillance equipment, etc.... Stalions was picking it all up on his $50K salary.
 
Such nonsense that Hairball was completely in the dark.... are we supposed to believe that Stalions wasn't being reimbursed for all these tickets, airfare.... high-tech surveillance equipment, etc.... Stalions was picking it all up on his $50K salary.
You are being too logical. He went rogue and Jim never asked where he got such great information. CMU has also gone silent after 5 days now. Are they thinking we will forget that little incident? The UM prez "leaks" a "woe is us, don't punish UM now" crybaby statement. They know it is a big..then just want to get that BT tile and CFP championship before it all collapses. Desperate cheaters
 
This is pretty much the sentiment on the OSU side right now:
Just firing one dude doesn’t delete all the info they’ve already gained on opponents. There’s no way to make any game with them this year truly “fair”, they’ve already ruined that. We just have to hope PSU and us have the talent, heart, and coaching to do what needs to be done.
 
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We just have to hope PSU and us have the talent, heart, and coaching to do what needs to be done.
Did you watch the Michigan game today? Hahahahahahah.

PS might be behind in talent. Certainly behind in coaching. I don't know about heart. I imagine it's as good as ever. All adds up to a 10-2 season, which we know is the best case.
 
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He says Michigan is “fully cooperating” with the ncaa investigation. However, there are reports that Stalions is refusing to cooperate.
That doesn’t mean Michigan isn’t cooperating. Stallions had been reported as not cooperating with any internal or external investigators.
 
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This is pretty much the sentiment on the OSU side right now:
Just firing one dude doesn’t delete all the info they’ve already gained on opponents. There’s no way to make any game with them this year truly “fair”, they’ve already ruined that. We just have to hope PSU and us have the talent, heart, and coaching to do what needs to be done.
Are you saying that Ryan Day who said he already changed his signs up can’t changed his signs by the end of November?
 
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Are you saying that Ryan Day who said he already changed his signs up can’t changed his signs by the end of November?
How long are you going to preach this mantra of future opponents not being disadvantaged, because they now have the ability (actually a complete necessity based on UM’s actions) to change all their signs? The issue is the unfair advantage they gained from past opponents who had no idea their signals were being deceptively stolen. Your comment is a disingenuous smokescreen.
 
L O L

Mel Tucker was suspended within 24 hours of allegations leaking. No full investigation done in that time period. No lawsuit from Fox for weakening a team by suspending a head coach pending an investigation. He went from suspended to fired in less than 3 weeks. I'm not sure how long you think a "full investigation" needs to take but one has already happened in the conference this season and it took 17 or so days from when it became public.

The conference revenues and ratings grew exponentially while Michigan was not winning championships from 2005-2020, they'll be fine without Michigan winning championships moving forward. You should just go back to MGoBlog and enjoy what is likely to be Michigan's last couple weeks of relevancy for a little while.

You think Fox's contract with the Big Ten precludes the conference from being able to enforce their own rules pending a financial impact review. Delusional.
L
Did you watch the Michigan game today? Hahahahahahah.

PS might be behind in talent. Certainly behind in coaching. I don't know about heart. I imagine it's as good as ever. All adds up to a 10-2 season, which we know is the best case.
You mean the game where the team that has lost 1 game past 2 years was up 20-6 at home vs a 2-6 Purdue?
 
How long are you going to preach this mantra of future opponents not being disadvantaged, because they now have the ability (actually a complete necessity based on UM’s actions) to change all their signs? The issue is the unfair advantage they gained from past opponents who had no idea their signals were being deceptively stolen. Your comment is a disingenuous smokescreen.
But he was talking about future opponents not past opponents was he not?
 
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Ignoring the short term for a second and your fever dream of a Michigan alum on the bench issuing an 11th hour temporary injunction…

What do you think happens to Jim and Michigan once it’s all said and done? Nothing?
after an investigation, most likely a slap on the wrist sometime next year
 
Seeking due process is admirable if it is pursued for reasons of fundamental fairness. You unfortunately desire it solely because it provides a cheating program an opportunity to win a National Championship. And that is sad and perverted. A true Walmart Michigan Man.
the presumption of innocence and a full fair investigation has always been a cornerstone of american jurisprudence...and if any organization blatently violates the sprit or letter of that, they can expect to get sued..not really that hard to understand
 
I am a lawyer and you are just mouthing garbage that you know nothing about. You could say that Michigan by its cheating "willfully, knowingly and without merit [did] does something to diminish the value of the tv contract" because the public doesn't like watching cheaters. If a school cheats and gets punished the broadcaster knows that there are rules that govern the teams in the conference and wouldn't have a claim against the Big Ten.
but you're from ohio, not sure about buckeye lawyers, lol
 
How long are you going to preach this mantra of future opponents not being disadvantaged, because they now have the ability (actually a complete necessity based on UM’s actions) to change all their signs? The issue is the unfair advantage they gained from past opponents who had no idea their signals were being deceptively stolen. Your comment is a disingenuous smokescreen.

Not only that, scUM was far more involved than just simple "sign stealing" - they were documenting formations and plays that corresponded to the signs. Given the massively illegal and hardened approach scUM was taking (including an extensive video-tape library of each team they targeted), it is likely they have documented the formations and plays that corresponded to specific signs. IOW, they were using clearly illegal advanced scouting and electronic means to literally steal double-digit opponents Playbooks. I would assume they've put even more effort into teams like PSU and duhO$U.

This creates a situation where scUM now has a catalog of Offensive and Defensive formations - as well as the various plays and "pressure packages" they run from these Offensive and Defensive formations. That makes it fairly straightforward for them to reverse-steal new signs in real-time (IOW, they will recognize the Offensive/Defensive formation already and the various plays/pressures run from the formation - this alone is a huge advantage - but once they run a specific play from the formation, they can attempt to match it to the new sign being given). The notion that a team simply changing their signals will negate the massive advantage that scUM has acquired by literally illegally stealing, documenting and cataloging a team's Playbook is laughable.
 
Not only that, scUM was far more involved than just simple "sign stealing" - they were documenting formations and plays that corresponded to the signs. Given the massively illegal and hardened approach scUM was taking (including an extensive video-tape library of each team they targeted), it is likely they have documented the formations and plays that corresponded to specific signs. IOW, they were using clearly illegal advanced scouting and electronic means to literally steal double-digit opponents Playbooks. I would assume they've put even more effort into teams like PSU and duhO$U.

This creates a situation where scUM now has a catalog of Offensive and Defensive formations - as well as the various plays and "pressure packages" they run from these Offensive and Defensive formations. That makes it fairly straightforward for them to reverse-steal new signs in real-time (IOW, they will recognize the Offensive/Defensive formation already and the various plays/pressures run from the formation - this alone is a huge advantage - but once they run a specific play from the formation, they can attempt to match it to the new sign being given). The notion that a team simply changing their signals will negate the massive advantage that scUM has acquired by literally illegally stealing, documenting and cataloging a team's Playbook is laughable.
lol, if you say so...guess you think their "catalog" rivals the lost archives of the library at alexandria...cope harder, cry more
 
Are you saying that Ryan Day who said he already changed his signs up can’t changed his signs by the end of November?
Every player and coach ever interviewed about this so far has said it is impossible to change all the signs in a season on short notice. Especially on offense as each sign on offense is intricate and indicates multiple things that are going on. These are college kids whose sole job is not to go home and study signs; they don't have unlimited time. Besides, this is an additional burden that every single one of UM's opponents has that UM does not have.
 
You are a decent guy but you are way off base here. No way he went to 30 games, was a whiz at sign stealing and none of the coordinators or Harbaugh would think to ask him why he was so good or why he was so good and that they should trust him a crucial play. There is also the video of C J Stroud changing a play at the line of scrimmage and 3 Michigan players who knew a pass was coming raising their hand in the air. If the players knew the signs and relied on them, the coaches had to know what was up. Impossible to have an "elite" staffer and not ask him how he did it because everyone would like to absorb the knowledge of the "elite" (in this instance, really cheater staffer) staffer.
This is where I have to disagree. Let us assume 150 dollars average per ticket. That is 4500 dollars. That is not even the cost of a single payoff for a 5 star recruit to Columbus per your AD. If this were a conspiracy, why is this not being done bagman style? Why would a bagman demand such trivial compensation? The bigger cost would be the time, not the money.

As I said before, Stalions was the sign stealer. He would be next to the staff, just like every other sign stealer. Sign stealers exist because they can steal signs even if everything is "above board". I gave the example in 2018 where at least two teams NW and OSU knew Michigan's signs. Or are we going to assume that every successful "steal" implies cheating? If someone appears to do their job better, one would conclude they are just good.

You mention the account of Bobby Carpenter. I would ask why would the staff spend coach hours on signs? Is that not homework? Nothing prevents players practicing their trade on their own time. If that means learning new signs, you do it as homework. It also means just flipping a few things for those who are challenged and not supposed to be in a Div1 school.

If you watched the Michigan/Purdue game, the camera panned on to the Purdue sideline. There were three individuals giving signals. Let's say Michigan knew every signal. There are three people giving signs with four outcomes. It could be person 1, person 2, person 3, or the call was already given in the huddle. As a sign stealer, I have a one in four chance of getting the call right.

My last comment is we have a lot of yap from fans on boards. I have not heard anything from coaches and athletic directors. If Big10 coaches and AD's believe this is a notorious situation beyond the pale, they need to publicly say so. I want Ryan Day to say that Jim Harbaugh needs to go.
 
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