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Most dominant PA high school wrestler ever?

Who is the most dominant PA high school wrestler ever?

  • Cary Kolat

    Votes: 98 49.5%

  • Chance Marstellar

    Votes: 12 6.1%

  • Spencer Lee

    Votes: 72 36.4%

  • Joey Wildasin

    Votes: 6 3.0%

  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 10 5.1%
  • Total voters
    198
lionlover said:
Any discussion of "Most dominant Pa HS wrestler" that doesn't include Wade Schalles is flawed. Especially if your metric is dominance in the state tournament. Schalles reputedly "pinned everyone" on his way to a state championship.
http://hubpages.com/sports/wade-schalles-the-best-wrestler-you-probably-dont-know
Click to expand...
No doubt Schalles was a great wrestler, and his PIAA finals match vs John Chatman of Trinity is an all-time classic.

However, he had only one PIAA championship while Marstellar and Kolat had 4 apiece, and Lee has 3 after his junior year. So for this particular list, I don't think Schalles qualifies. FWIW.
 
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psugrad85 said:
In 2015, Suriano beat Agaisse 5-2 in the NJ 120-lb State Finals, and this year Suriano beat him 9-2 in the 126-lb State Finals.
Click to expand...
Suriano won this year's final 3 -1. Tactical match.

He beat Agaisse 9-2 in the Feb. dual meet between Bergen Catholic and Delbarton.
 
royboy said:
No doubt Schalles was a great wrestler, and his PIAA finals match vs John Chatman of Trinity is an all-time classic.

However, he had only one PIAA championship while Marstellar and Kolat had 4 apiece, and Lee has 3 after his junior year. So for this particular list, I don't think Schalles qualifies. FWIW.
Click to expand...

I understand. If you are talking career, the wrestlers you listed are all in the hunt. I was just trying to say that if the metric is who had the most dominant run at states, you can't exclude Schalles.
 
Agreed about Wade Schalles if you're going off measuring state tournament metric. If going off overall career, I have to go with Kolat until Spencer graduates.
 
matter7172 said:
Which leads into another thread maybe. The best high school match you've ever seen.

For me, 1973 at the State Farm Show arena, after wrestling for the Olympic team in Munich in 1972 and the aforementioned Midlands victory, Jimmy Carr was pushed to the brink (and maybe beyond) by Larry Kepp of Central Dauphin East in the state finals. Final score was 8-6, but only (in many people's opinion) because the referees refused to make another stalling call on Carr late in the third period, which would have tied the match. The excitement level of this match was the highest I've experienced for any match, high school, college or international. An Olympic team member and reigning Midlands champ being chased around the mat by an pretty unheralded senior was something I can't forget. So dramatic, you wonder why they have never made a movie about it.

But to the original question, I don't know how you go against Spencer Lee and his run in the state tournaments for his first three years. Mind-boggling. Kolat very close behind.
Click to expand...

There are tons of vagaries in the way Folkstyle matches are called - especially in high school - that can skew the closeness of the match (Spencer Lee referred to this in an interview that somebody posted as to why he likes freestyle way more than folkstyle). Take a look at the Kolat match posted earlier in this thread - that high school match was 2-1 after the 1st period only because his opponent backed off the mat every time Kolat was about to take him down. Kolat's opponent would have been Tech Falled in the 1st period if that was a Freestyle match) and his opponent would have been dinged for multiple passivity calls.

Clearly the match you referenced was being dominated by Carr in the early going - most likely Kepp was doing everything he could in the 1st period to keep it as close as possible (just like Kolat's opponent in the match posted earlier in this thread). Kepp came into the match undefeated if I remember correctly from what I had read about the event. Jimmy had been regularly screwed in other years by disgraceful "folkstyle" officiating and didn't even make it past regionals his first 2 years (his ONLY LOSSES of his entire high school career - one of those the spring before he made the U.S. Olympic Team). Additionally, when Jimmy Carr won the Midlands Tournament while still in high school, he beat a returning NCAA Champion in the finals and was named the Midlands Tournament OW Award Winner that year as a high schooler!!! Something tells me that Jimmy Carr being the only high school wrestler in history to make the U.S. Olympic Team and not just win the Midlands Tournament, but be named the Outstanding Wrestler of the Tournament beating a returning NCAA Champion in the Finals unquestionably makes him the most dominating high school wrestler in Pennsylvania, or any other state for that matter, the vagaries of how PIAA folkstyle officials call matches not withstanding.

One last tidbit on this - Jimmy Carr was only a Junior in this match. He ended up moving to Kentucky where his brother Fletcher lived (believe his brother was coaching at UK) for his last year of high school. He ended up his PIAA career with 2 losses - both in the aforementioned Regional Tournament his freshman and sophomore season - so he could not advance to the State Tournament. Both losses were purportedly ridiculous "folkstyle" screw-jobs including ridiculousness like wiping out pinning combination throws by calling slams, etc... - allowing the opponent to wrestle the edge in the 1st period so he couldn't be taken down, etc.... Odd how he could beat an NCAA returning National Champion to not only win Midlands, but win the OW Award at Midlands, but he was given so much trouble by PIAA high school wrestlers, go figure?!?!
 
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Kepp was in the same Christmas tournament as I was his junior year, I didn't win my weight class, but I don't think he did, either. I'm 99% sure he didn't go to states until his senior year. He really came out of nowhere his senior year. But make no mistake, the Kepp/Carr match was hotly contested throughout and by the third period, Carr was wrestling for his life. The stalling calls, from my recollection, were entirely warranted. The never-given fourth would have been proper. As hard to believe as it is reading about it, it was more hard to believe being there.
 
clucas said:
I am not aware of any of Lee's matches that have not been a fall or technical fall (outside of Suriano or other matches at Super 32, or his one major decision at states his freshman year in the finals).
Click to expand...

I'm as big a fan of Spencer Lee as there is. He's off the charts.That said, he's had some matches that were not falls or TFs.

From last season (2014-15 wrestling season):

- Walsh Ironman Quarters:
13-3 Major over Jake Newhouse (Perry Massillon)
- Walsh Ironman Finals:
13-2 Major over Eli Stickley (St. Paris Graham)
- Powerade Finals:
15-4 Major over Ty Agaisse (Delbarton School)
- Dual with Belle Vernon Area
19-8 Major over Brock Godzin
- Forget the competition at CR South
22-9 Major over Jake Reigel (Becahi)

If you go back to his freshman season:

12-2 Major over Hayden Lee (Marysville) on 12/13/13
14-4 Major over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 12/27/13
9-5 Decision over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 1/10/14
15-6 Major over over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 2/1/14
 
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Tom McAndrew said:
I'm as big a fan of Spencer Lee as there is. He's off the charts.That said, he's had some matches that were not falls or TFs.

From last season (2014-15 wrestling season):

- Walsh Ironman Quarters:
13-3 Major over Jake Newhouse (Perry Massillon)
- Walsh Ironman Finals:
13-2 Major over Eli Stickley (St. Paris Graham)
- Powerade Finals:
15-4 Major over Ty Agaisse (Delbarton School)
- Dual with Belle Vernon Area
19-8 Major over Brock Godzin
- Forget the competition at CR South
22-9 Major over Jake Reigel (Becahi)

If you go back to his freshman season:

12-2 Major over Hayden Lee (Marysville) on 12/13/13
14-4 Major over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 12/27/13
9-5 Decision over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 1/10/14
15-6 Major over over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 2/1/14
Click to expand...
What a slacker.
 
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matter7172 said:
Which leads into another thread maybe. The best high school match you've ever seen.

For me, 1973 at the State Farm Show arena, after wrestling for the Olympic team in Munich in 1972 and the aforementioned Midlands victory, Jimmy Carr was pushed to the brink (and maybe beyond) by Larry Kepp of Central Dauphin East in the state finals. Final score was 8-6, but only (in many people's opinion) because the referees refused to make another stalling call on Carr late in the third period, which would have tied the match. The excitement level of this match was the highest I've experienced for any match, high school, college or international. An Olympic team member and reigning Midlands champ being chased around the mat by an pretty unheralded senior was something I can't forget. So dramatic, you wonder why they have never made a movie about it.

But to the original question, I don't know how you go against Spencer Lee and his run in the state tournaments for his first three years. Mind-boggling. Kolat very close behind.
Click to expand...
I too saw the Carr Kepp match and it was the 2nd best match I saw that involved Jimmie Carr. In the 1972 regional finals at the Jaffa Mosque in Altoona he lost 8-7 to the eventual state champ, Henry Green from Huntingdon. PA was one and done back then , so Jimmie's season was over. That was the best match I ever saw.
 
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Hartzie said:
I too saw the Carr Kepp match and it was the 2nd best match I saw that involved Jimmie Carr. In the 1972 regional finals at the Jaffa Mosque in Altoona he lost 8-7 to the eventual state champ, Henry Green from Huntingdon. PA was one and done back then , so Jimmie's season was over. That was the best match I ever saw.
Click to expand...

The last year of single class PA championships was quite a year for D3. 16 of the 48 placers were from D3, including 9 of the finalists (Eric Carr from Cumberland Valley and Don McCorkel from Hershey won). Lower Dauphin rolled out three straight finalists at 138, 145 and 155 - and all lost! Al Fisher from Bald Eagle Area hit what seemed like 20 duck-unders on Mark Stauffer of LD at 145. It was a great tournament from start to finish.
 
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matter7172 said:
The last year of single class PA championships was quite a year for D3. 16 of the 48 placers were from D3, including 9 of the finalists (Eric Carr from Cumberland Valley and Don McCorkel from Hershey won). Lower Dauphin rolled out three straight finalists at 138, 145 and 155 - and all lost! Al Fisher from Bald Eagle Area hit what seemed like 20 duck-unders on Mark Stauffer of LD at 145. It was a great tournament from start to finish.
Click to expand...
LOL! One of my best high school friends, Duane Fossler beat Al Fisher in the regional finals the year before (1972) after Fisher was named OW the week before at District VI. Fossler had wanted to wrestle Fisher again ever since he beat Duane in the PA state Jr. Olympic finals.There were four wrestlers at each weight class in states. Fossler was very happy when he saw that two time state champ Don Rohn was in the other semifinal. Rohn ended up getting pinned by Dave Rodgers of North Allegheny in the semis and Duane won his semi final. Unfortunately, Rogers beat him (5-3 I think) for the state title.
 
matter7172 said:
The last year of single class PA championships was quite a year for D3. 16 of the 48 placers were from D3, including 9 of the finalists (Eric Carr from Cumberland Valley and Don McCorkel from Hershey won). Lower Dauphin rolled out three straight finalists at 138, 145 and 155 - and all lost! Al Fisher from Bald Eagle Area hit what seemed like 20 duck-unders on Mark Stauffer of LD at 145. It was a great tournament from start to finish.
Click to expand...
More on Jimmy Carr:
Carr was 53-2 in HS. His freshman and sophomore seasons he lost in the regional tournament. I believe, as a result, he did not qualify for the state tournament. He was an undefeated PA state champ as a junior. He moved to Kentucky his senior year and did not wrestle HS (followed his brother Fletcher who just started the Univ of Kentucky wrestling program and was coaching it). He did, however, win Midlands (OW award) as a senior. He was already married with two infant daughters by the time he moved to Kentucky and would add a son during his sophomore year. As a true freshman at Univ of Kentucky, he was the #2 seed at the 1975 NCAA tournment but DNP. Not sure what happened in 1976, but he did not wrestle in the NCAA tournament. He placed 5th at the 1977 NCAA tournament. I believe he dropped out of school after that and did not wrestle collegiately again. There was mention of him joining the Univ. of Alabama wrestling team for the 1979 season, but I am not sure that ever happened.
 
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matter7172 said:
The last year of single class PA championships was quite a year for D3. 16 of the 48 placers were from D3, including 9 of the finalists (Eric Carr from Cumberland Valley and Don McCorkel from Hershey won). Lower Dauphin rolled out three straight finalists at 138, 145 and 155 - and all lost! Al Fisher from Bald Eagle Area hit what seemed like 20 duck-unders on Mark Stauffer of LD at 145. It was a great tournament from start to finish.
Click to expand...
http://live.pa-wrestling.com/pdfs/1972_PIAA_State_results.pdf

Here's a pdf of the 1972 results; among items of interest, 145 was loaded with all 4 semi-finalists coming in undefeated.
Larry Suhey of State College won at 180.

**edt to add 1973
http://live.pa-wrestling.com/pdfs/1973_PIAA_State_results.pdf
 
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Johnb212 said:
Desanto from Exeter Township is a junior with 50-0 record when he faced Lee. He is very good and may win next year.
Click to expand...
DeSanto is nowhere near one of the best all-time in the state and will need to move away from Lee if he has hopes of winning anything
 
Tom McAndrew said:
I'm as big a fan of Spencer Lee as there is. He's off the charts.That said, he's had some matches that were not falls or TFs.

From last season (2014-15 wrestling season):

- Walsh Ironman Quarters:
13-3 Major over Jake Newhouse (Perry Massillon)
- Walsh Ironman Finals:
13-2 Major over Eli Stickley (St. Paris Graham)
- Powerade Finals:
15-4 Major over Ty Agaisse (Delbarton School)
- Dual with Belle Vernon Area
19-8 Major over Brock Godzin
- Forget the competition at CR South
22-9 Major over Jake Reigel (Becahi)

If you go back to his freshman season:

12-2 Major over Hayden Lee (Marysville) on 12/13/13
14-4 Major over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 12/27/13
9-5 Decision over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 1/10/14
15-6 Major over over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 2/1/14
Click to expand...


This is just sic for so many reasons. kid has >100 wins now and he has 9 matches in 2.25 years (calling states this year the .25) that were less than a TF/Fall and only one less than MDec. Damn this kid is great! Its not like FR is wrestling charter schools either, this is the best of the best HS competition.

Kudos to Tom for digging into it.
 
You missed the other two times that Spencer Lee technical falled Ethan McCoy that same season. It was on TV and in the Team Dual finals when Lee beat McCoy 17-2 in 2:05. Are you kidding me... That was incredible. It's hard to wrestle the same good wrestler six times in a season.

Tom McAndrew said:
I'm as big a fan of Spencer Lee as there is. He's off the charts.That said, he's had some matches that were not falls or TFs.

From last season (2014-15 wrestling season):

- Walsh Ironman Quarters:
13-3 Major over Jake Newhouse (Perry Massillon)
- Walsh Ironman Finals:
13-2 Major over Eli Stickley (St. Paris Graham)
- Powerade Finals:
15-4 Major over Ty Agaisse (Delbarton School)
- Dual with Belle Vernon Area
19-8 Major over Brock Godzin
- Forget the competition at CR South
22-9 Major over Jake Reigel (Becahi)

If you go back to his freshman season:

12-2 Major over Hayden Lee (Marysville) on 12/13/13
14-4 Major over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 12/27/13
9-5 Decision over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 1/10/14
15-6 Major over over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 2/1/14
Click to expand...
 
What makes his career even more amazing is the fact that Lee only has one win in his 112 or so wins that was not won by a bonus point margin of victory and he did technical fall that same opponent 2X that same year, so Lee has beaten every opponent he has faced in his career by bonus point margin. Also, don't forget, that Lee wrestled up a weight his first two seasons for the team. So he accomplished all of this while wrestling up a weight class during this freshman and sophomore season.


Tom McAndrew said:
I'm as big a fan of Spencer Lee as there is. He's off the charts.That said, he's had some matches that were not falls or TFs.

From last season (2014-15 wrestling season):

- Walsh Ironman Quarters:
13-3 Major over Jake Newhouse (Perry Massillon)
- Walsh Ironman Finals:
13-2 Major over Eli Stickley (St. Paris Graham)
- Powerade Finals:
15-4 Major over Ty Agaisse (Delbarton School)
- Dual with Belle Vernon Area
19-8 Major over Brock Godzin
- Forget the competition at CR South
22-9 Major over Jake Reigel (Becahi)

If you go back to his freshman season:

12-2 Major over Hayden Lee (Marysville) on 12/13/13
14-4 Major over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 12/27/13
9-5 Decision over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 1/10/14
15-6 Major over over Ethan McCoy (Greater Latrobe) on 2/1/14
Click to expand...
 
royboy said:
http://live.pa-wrestling.com/pdfs/1972_PIAA_State_results.pdf

Here's a pdf of the 1972 results; among items of interest, 145 was loaded with all 4 semi-finalists coming in undefeated.
Larry Suhey of State College won at 180.

**edt to add 1973
http://live.pa-wrestling.com/pdfs/1973_PIAA_State_results.pdf
Click to expand...

One incredible thing about 1973 was the fact that John Malles from Hempfield HS (Lancaster area) and Greg Duke from Manheim Township were headed towards a sixth meeting (dual meet, tournament final, sectional finals, district finals and regional finals previously) of the season on opposite bracket semis at 98 pounds. Malles had won three of the prior meetings and Duke two. Duke was losing big but got a third period pin to get his place in the finals. Malles was winning his semi but got injured. He wound up getting tied in regulation and then defeated 9-0 in overtime after being injured and did not wrestle in the 3/4 match. But that was some rivalry that season of which we didn't get to see the final chapter due to the injury to Malles.
 
matter7172 said:
One incredible thing about 1973 was the fact that John Malles from Hempfield HS (Lancaster area) and Greg Duke from Manheim Township were headed towards a sixth meeting (dual meet, tournament final, sectional finals, district finals and regional finals previously) of the season on opposite bracket semis at 98 pounds. Malles had won three of the prior meetings and Duke two. Duke was losing big but got a third period pin to get his place in the finals. Malles was winning his semi but got injured. He wound up getting tied in regulation and then defeated 9-0 in overtime after being injured and did not wrestle in the 3/4 match. But that was some rivalry that season of which we didn't get to see the final chapter due to the injury to Malles.
Click to expand...

I noticed that a couple of Upper Darby Royals were in the semis in 1972.
 
Hartzie said:
Notice the runner up at 105 in 1973? Geno's dad.
Click to expand...

Didn't make that connection but should have. He beat Andy Zook from Newport in a thriller in the semis. Notice how OT scores were much higher generally under the old rules? I liked the old rules because guys were less reluctant to be aggressive, knowing if they made a mistake, they'd have time to come back.
 
It's before anyone's time, including mine, but Gib Fink was pretty close to unbeatable in the early 70's for Tyrone.
 
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lionlover said:
Any discussion of "Most dominant Pa HS wrestler" that doesn't include Wade Schalles is flawed. Especially if your metric is dominance in the state tournament. Schalles reputedly "pinned everyone" on his way to a state championship.
http://hubpages.com/sports/wade-schalles-the-best-wrestler-you-probably-dont-know
Click to expand...

The finals match against Chatman from Trinity, at REC HALL by the way(not the Farm Show Arena), is still in my opinion the greatest high school match ever. Chatman was ahead actually 5-3 with time running down in the third when Wade somehow hit an elevator with NO leverage at all for the pin. There is a replay on Youtube but my old Mac won't transfer it....just incredible. Schalles, to me, is one of my heroes.
 
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21Guns said:
The finals match against Chatman from Trinity, at REC HALL by the way(not the Farm Show Arena), is still in my opinion the greatest high school match ever. Chatman was ahead actually 5-3 with time running down in the third when Wade somehow hit an elevator with NO leverage at all for the pin. There is a replay on Youtube but my old Mac won't transfer it....just incredible. Schalles, to me, is one of my heroes.
Click to expand...
LINK: Schalles pins Chatman

What golden footage. That's great that it exists. Thanks for pointing that out guns.
 
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"What would you say he's trying to do there...."

"Well he is trying to elevator him but it----AND HE'S DONE IT!"...

WHAT A MATCH.
 
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Hartzie said:
Not before mine. Gib was good but don't think he ever won states.
Click to expand...
He was a 2-time state champ at 103 - 71 & 72.

LINK: 73 years of Tyrone wrestling

In 1970, 1971 and 1972 Gib Fink became Tyrone's First 3 time District Champ. Gib was also Tyrone's first two Time State Champ. In 1971 Gib beat Brad Weaver from Easton 3-2, and 1972 he beat Greg Filipos from Bethlehem Liberty 2-0. Also in the 1971 and 1972 seasons Tyrone wrestling team went undefeated, going 11-0-0 both years. In the 1972 season, Tyrone won their first Central Wrestling Conference Championship.
 
mn78psu83 said:
He was a 2-time state champ at 103 - 71 & 72.

LINK: 73 years of Tyrone wrestling

In 1970, 1971 and 1972 Gib Fink became Tyrone's First 3 time District Champ. Gib was also Tyrone's first two Time State Champ. In 1971 Gib beat Brad Weaver from Easton 3-2, and 1972 he beat Greg Filipos from Bethlehem Liberty 2-0. Also in the 1971 and 1972 seasons Tyrone wrestling team went undefeated, going 11-0-0 both years. In the 1972 season, Tyrone won their first Central Wrestling Conference Championship.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected. I was at both '71 and '72 state finals. My memory ain't what it used to be as they say...
 
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