the odds of that happening are very long. Now that Miami has a competent coaching staff, they are primed to own that division for a long time. They are going to recruit circles around everybody else.
My take on the Pitt/PSU game...
- Thread starter HailToPitt725
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Wuz: Have you been to a game in Morgantown? I'm curious what that experience is like. I have heard that WVU has a very large contingent of students from New Jersey, but precious little else.
Dude: I wasn't trying to case on you. Having been married to a PSU alumna for thirty years now, I am very familiar with the antipathy most PSU alums seem to have towards Pitt. I wasn't raised on it, though, so I find it hard to emulate. I nevertheless understand that it is what it is. My guess is that you have no particular animus towards Stanford, but I can tell you that I and most other Cal fans do not share that view.
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Same question then - how does pitt plan to keep up with vt and the canes with 2-3 star talent? It just doesn't appear to be possible with the current state of your program. Narduzzi just flat out can't bring the talent to Oakland. In fairness to him, I'm not sure if anyone can since the administration does not appear to be serious about taking the necessary steps to play ball. In other words, even in the acc, pitt seems poised to be a perpetual also-ran. What's going to change?
The teams that win are the ones that get the higher rated recruting classes....no other way to sell that. Player development, coaching them up, yadda yadda....bring up all the excuses you want but if you're not getting the highly ranked recruits on a consistent basis, you aren't winning championships. Some lower ranked recruits will work out, some highly ranked recruits won't, but the bottom line is you have to get a lot of highly ranked recruits or you're not going to win. So Wanny has a 9 win season and a 10 win season then a 7 win season and he gets canned, but Narduzzi has two 8 win seasons and likely a 6 or 7 win season and things are looking up....hmm.
Hyperbole perhaps, but still in the same vein. You can't build a top level program counting on the Aaron Donalds of the world. Most 3-star players are just 3-star talent. He was a diamond in the rough...every program has an Aaron Donald from time to time, except that the really good ones have him plus a 2-deep full of other stud athletes.
As for things looking up, they've been looking up since as long as I can remember, and unless they make some significant changes to their formula, Pitt is destined to be a mediocre program.
So what are you telling him? To forswear hope for future success and embrace mediocrity? As a Cal alum, I can understand why he may not be inclined to do that.
I hope our first play from scrimmage is a desean Hamilton TD for his redemption.
Well you're a 7-win team at best this year and avoid the 3 best teams in your conference, so I don't see how winning 8 games (with a stud OL he didn't recruit) in previous seasons bodes well when you'll "close out strong" to maybe a mid 40s recruiting class. And PA is way down next year so good luck. Can only "Last Chance U" it for so long; eventually you have to recruit.
#54 ranked recruiting classes don't lead to conference championships. He can pretend all he wants.
Where would Pitt's 2017 class rank without Ford? Why has Narduzzi skirted the "academic redshirt" issues? Signing Ford was not such a win if other schools backed off (Miami) when they saw that train coming down the tracks.
It amazes me that Narduzzi just can't seem to tell the whole story about anything. He just refuses.
On my last trip there, that was the #1 place everyone recommended. But they all said it gets super busy. They weren't kidding. It was great, but expect a big wait.
Thanks HailtoPitt for visiting, thanks to PSU fans for generally respectful response.
I think there are two other big differences for PSU from last year to this year.
1) Last year's OL was young, not deep, and in a constant state of flux. This year's group is solid on its way to being great. They may push the Pitt front around a bit, and PItt will have to blitz (and probably blitz 2) to get pressure on passing downs. McSorley thrives against this -- the B10 title game vs. Wisconsin was an example.
2) Last year at this time PSU coaches were not letting McSorley run the ball because they didn't know about Stevens, so they didn't want to risk injury. As a result teams could just sit on Barkley and the zone read didn't work that well. This year McSorley is like another running back. Which makes defending PSU a lot harder.
Anyway I think you're right, Pitt and most defenses will focus on stopping Barkley and challenge McSorley and the receivers to beat them, just like last year. Which I don't think will work, but what choice do you have?
I think there are two other big differences for PSU from last year to this year.
1) Last year's OL was young, not deep, and in a constant state of flux. This year's group is solid on its way to being great. They may push the Pitt front around a bit, and PItt will have to blitz (and probably blitz 2) to get pressure on passing downs. McSorley thrives against this -- the B10 title game vs. Wisconsin was an example.
2) Last year at this time PSU coaches were not letting McSorley run the ball because they didn't know about Stevens, so they didn't want to risk injury. As a result teams could just sit on Barkley and the zone read didn't work that well. This year McSorley is like another running back. Which makes defending PSU a lot harder.
Anyway I think you're right, Pitt and most defenses will focus on stopping Barkley and challenge McSorley and the receivers to beat them, just like last year. Which I don't think will work, but what choice do you have?
I think Pitt has a massive infrastructure problem that will take a generation to sort out. Pitt has never been a big fan draw even in the best of days. While PSU is averaging around 100,000, Pitt will be lucky to average 40,000. Part of that is the off campus stadium and lack of student participation. The fix is to build your own stadium but where? Funding? contractual commitments to the city for Heinz? That will take ten years to sort out and build.
Compare Pitt game day atmosphere to VT, PSU, WVU...its not even close with those regional teams. And today, if you want five stars, you are competing with AL, tOSU, UM, FL, FSU, etc.
So the average recruit looks at the perennial national championship contenders. If not them, they look at regional/conference contenders. If not them, they look at local Power 5 schools. Pitt falls into the local Power 5. And, basically, WPIAL with a handful of kids from Ohio and out of region kids that for whatever reason, passed on the local teams.
I just don't see that changing anytime soon.
It won't matter if PSU wins 100-0 this year, they will still retort, "42-39."
I think the original post hits on the biggest difference this year as opposed to last.
Pitt's D front 7 is definitely lacking compared to last year while PSU's offense is more cohesive and dangerous than it was last September while they were still getting used to the new system and making due with an OL that was building.
My biggest source of trepidation going into last year's game was Pitt's advantage on the other side of the ball though. I didn't like our front 7 matchup vs. their OL and Conner...at all. I didn't like it before Cabinda, Haley, Cothran, Schwan and Givens got hurt but that really just sealed the deal for Pitt's 1st half surge.
This week will be a big test for PSU's improvement on D. I still think Pitt's offense can cause PSU problems but don't think they'll be able to keep pace with Moorhead unless PSU gets very sloppy turning the ball over and gives Pitt a short field.
Pitt's D front 7 is definitely lacking compared to last year while PSU's offense is more cohesive and dangerous than it was last September while they were still getting used to the new system and making due with an OL that was building.
My biggest source of trepidation going into last year's game was Pitt's advantage on the other side of the ball though. I didn't like our front 7 matchup vs. their OL and Conner...at all. I didn't like it before Cabinda, Haley, Cothran, Schwan and Givens got hurt but that really just sealed the deal for Pitt's 1st half surge.
This week will be a big test for PSU's improvement on D. I still think Pitt's offense can cause PSU problems but don't think they'll be able to keep pace with Moorhead unless PSU gets very sloppy turning the ball over and gives Pitt a short field.
I had a team mate in wrestling that was in my weight class and could challenge in practice every week. I beat him every single time thru junior high and high school with the exception of one time.....and the next day I was diagnosed with Mononucleosis and removed from competition. Guess what he remembers?
Morgantown is god aweful! Only place I've ever come close to getting into a fight. Been to Pitt games before and other than the typical verbiage (like at Nebraska, Texas, tO$U, etc) it wasn't bad. WVU on the other hand... that place is a just a cesspool of degradation like the world has never seen.
I do not see how any pitt fan can realistically say that pitt has much of a chance to get to an ACC championship game. Duzzy seems to not be making much if any progress recruiting difference makers for pitt. Whereas teams like NC seem to be making moves towards bringing in the talent to compete somewhat with the powers like Miami, Clemson, and FSU. The talent nucleus of the pitt teams that were successful the last few years was recruited by Christ and the current staff does not seem to be replacing the talent at the same level. Look at the pitt OL, and the recent OL recruiting.
Miami is back to recruiting elite talent. IF, a big if, Miami has an off year there are more likely candidates/teams with considerably more talent than pitt that will likely overtake Miami for a year or two and make the ACC championship game.
http://miami.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Commits
http://northcarolina.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Commits
http://virginiatech.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Commits
What makes you believe that pitt can make the ACC championship? All coaching staffs develop their talent/players, and it somewhat amusing when pitt fans tell me that Duzzy will "coach them up" better than the other ACC coaches, or any other of the power 5 teams.
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A
anon_is9z1n0h3zblb
Guest
Also, the coaching in the ACC Coastal got better since Narduzzi was hired. Mark Richt replaced Al Golden, Bronco Mendenhall replaced Mike London and Justin Fuente replaced Frank Beamer and Fuente managed to keep Bud Foster as DC. All head coaches that were successful at other schools. It's really hard to rate Narduzzi over anyone in the Coastal except for Paul Johnson.
I'm sorry Hail...I got through your post just fine until this paragraph. Then I couldn't help but laugh. People on this board are notorious homers with regard to PSU, but this is pretty rich. Pitt gave YSU everything they could handle on Saturday and now you think there is a chance of upsetting 2 top 10 teams the following 2 weeks? If all of PSU's LBs and Barkley get hurt in the first quarter, Pitt has a chance this Saturday. Otherwise, it's going to be ugly. I mean no disrespect and thanks for coming by. Good discourse is always welcome. take care.
It's really all about the conference schedule. Pitt avoids FSU, Clemson and Louisville altogether until 2020, but never has to play more than one of them in any given season. The Coastal (at least, until Miami proves it's the cream of the crop) is still a division that can be won with 2 losses for the foreseeable future.
Pitt has to look at 18-19 as its best chance for an ACC run and title game appearance before Miami and VT can firmly establish themselves atop that division. It's not going to take a great team to win the Coastal and Pitt is still young enough where a decent '17 year can set them up for contention in that division.
I have to second Hail's thoughts on Max Browne too. As a Pitt fan, his first game did not inspire a whole lot of confidence. He threw into double and triple coverage a lot and seemed slow in his decision making. If there is not significant improvement, we (Pitt) will get slaughtered.
For those of you wondering where Pitt fans' hopeful confidence about our defense comes from, its because we have a lot of inexperienced youth which seems to have the size and talent necessary to compete at a high level. Whether that comes to fruition remains to be seen.
I think a 50/50 run/pass ratio by PSU is what will really give Pitt a hard time. Pitt's defensive philosophy is to stop the run, and Pitt will stack the box necessary to do so. With PSU's talent at RB, Pitt will probably be forced to do just that (and even then may have a hard time). McSoley can then use that to his advantage.
Unlike Hail, I think we have a better chance of hanging with OK St. than PSU because Big 12 teams arent built to stop the run. But, thats why they play the games!
For those of you wondering where Pitt fans' hopeful confidence about our defense comes from, its because we have a lot of inexperienced youth which seems to have the size and talent necessary to compete at a high level. Whether that comes to fruition remains to be seen.
I think a 50/50 run/pass ratio by PSU is what will really give Pitt a hard time. Pitt's defensive philosophy is to stop the run, and Pitt will stack the box necessary to do so. With PSU's talent at RB, Pitt will probably be forced to do just that (and even then may have a hard time). McSoley can then use that to his advantage.
Unlike Hail, I think we have a better chance of hanging with OK St. than PSU because Big 12 teams arent built to stop the run. But, thats why they play the games!
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I have to say Hail and H2P have been rather level-headed for Pitt fans. Glad to see they are supporting their team without being jagoffs!
That said, the only way PSU doesn't hang 70 on Saturday is if the weather turns for the worse and we have heavy rain throughout the entire game, if PSU's defense gets riddled with injuries, PSU's OL gets riddled with injuries, and Gesicki, Blacknall, Charles, Johnson, Thompkins, and Hamilton all get injured. PSU is just too deep across all positions for this to stay close.
I expect 62 - 6 or possibly 77 - 0. This is a barn burner blow-out. I don't see it any other way.
That said, the only way PSU doesn't hang 70 on Saturday is if the weather turns for the worse and we have heavy rain throughout the entire game, if PSU's defense gets riddled with injuries, PSU's OL gets riddled with injuries, and Gesicki, Blacknall, Charles, Johnson, Thompkins, and Hamilton all get injured. PSU is just too deep across all positions for this to stay close.
I expect 62 - 6 or possibly 77 - 0. This is a barn burner blow-out. I don't see it any other way.
Sure, I can understand your hope with regards to the defense. But even in 2015 and 2016, PSU had some talent and experience on defense, but that was not enough to prevent significant downright bad performances when a few injuries hit. In 2016, really against Pitt and Michigan, PSU's lack of depth at LB (with the LB injuries) and youth in the middle of the DL very negatively impacted our performance on D. But Franklin had many young players, talented 3 and 4 star players, that were getting experience and more talent redshirting. I know that Pitt managed to get a few talented DT's, and has some DB talent, but I don't see much real LB talent developing. And right now pitt's DB talent is still very young with the exception of Whitehead.
So I could see Pitt's defense improving somewhat by the end of this season, and some significant improvement but not until 2018 at the earliest.
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Why is Pitt putting its students in the end zone? That is stupid. If they were selling out, and getting top dollar for midfield seats from alums and others, then yeah, put the students in the end zone. But when the stadium is virtually empty, put the students on one side between the 40 yard lines, and put the alums on the other side. The kids make more noise, and will be more likely to attend if they have better seats.
I realize that most PSU fans cannot conceive of having your student section anywhere but the end zone, but PSU also sells out regularly. A seating and ticketing strategy that has Pitt's home crowd reminding you of a Jackson Pollock painting is not a good thing.
