NaTo out until January
- Thread starter Lion8286
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Better question is how will it impact his deadlift?
Odds are he probably won’t be missing many matches he wouldn’t have been missing already because of the cut.
Not alleging anything by this, but the injury is convenient so far as timing goes given that the plan was to wrestle a limited schedule to decrease the number of times Nato would need to make weight. Curious whether announcing the injury delays/tolls the date to certify at 125, anyone know?
Agree. That would invite all kinds of shenanigans.
People are sugar-coating this around the interwebs, but it's not good. Behind Snyder, he's the one guy they can't have hobbled.
For all rostered wrestlers...
No sooner than the first day of classes, no later than November 1st.
Okay, so what about non-rostered wrestlers? Pat Downey isn't on Iowa's roster because he's not enrolled, yet the plan is to wrestle him at 184 in March, and so presumably he has to certify on a date later than November 1. By that language I imagine before the first day of second semester classes.
And again, not because I'm suggesting Tom Ryan is attempting to circumvent anything, I'm just trying to understand how things work by imagining breaking them, but what would prevent a coach from removing a wrestler from the roster for a semester for the purposes of gaming the system? I imagine that wrestler's scholarship would be impacted, so the ploy seems unlikely, but I'm curious then.
When I saw this thread I thought wow they must be talking about how a poster said he thought the timing of this tournament sucked for a team or athlete that was hoping to make a title run this year. For a moment I felt vindicated then I was like "oh sh$t noooo". NATO has to crush Suriano this year preferably in the quarters but I'll take the semi's. #knowitall #vindictive
Seems realistic to me that an injured wrestler would not need to certify until he is no longer injured - maybe there is gray area, or maybe not
Prior to their first competition.
The rulebook uses the word "shall", so my interpretation is "no gray area". If a wrestler's name appears on an institutional roster, the rules apply.
Besides, he just made 57kg for the U23's. I'm guessing he's already certed, and if he gains a little in the next couple months, must follow a descent plan. No biggie.
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Certifying injured for a fairly intense weight cut sounds like a party I want to go too.
You do understand certifying, right? The goal is not to be at your wrestling weight, it's for the math to show a wrestler can safely (hydrated state, 5%+ body fat) make weight.
I really do not know how certifying goes. I knew how my son had to do it for PIAA back in 2007, it was a progression of so much per week. How exactly does it work in college? Nato has to weigh what weight by Nov 1st to be certified at 125 and does he need to have at least 5% body fat? And how do they measure hydration? I assume they have a better method for body fat than the calipers they used at my son's high school.
Thanks Roar, in advance, or someone else.....
Thanks Roar, in advance, or someone else.....
Wrestler could weigh 150 and could certify at 133 if hydration and body fat are such that he can lose that. My son weighed 144 his senior year and could not certify for 140 because his body fat was too low. He was allowed to drop to 141.5, that was it.
First is the go/no-go portion, which is hydration. The specific gravity of one's urine determines if the certification can take place. If hydration fails, the wrestler must return the next day, fully hydrated.
The rest is all math.
Say I weigh 170 pounds at the time of certification, with a body fat of 13% (several methods allowed for body fat %, mostly used is calipers).
Since I must be above 5% body fat, I'm allowed to lose 8% of my body weight (13% - 5%).
8% of 170 pounds is 13.6 pounds (that's what I'd be ALLOWED TO LOSE SAFELY).
170 pounds - 13.6 pounds is 156.4 pounds, so I could wrestle 157 this coming year...even though I weight 170 now.
Another piece of this is the descent plan. There is a weekly limit of 1.5% of body weight, so the most I could lose in any one week is 2.55 pounds. It would take over 5 weeks to get from 170 to 157.
Note that there is other math applied, though the above is a good example.
Hydration test is done by urinalysis. Pee in a cup, test density or specific gravity to determine hydration level. Flunk that and certification is postponed.
Wrestlers generally don't like the hydration test because it turns them into water balloons. They could put out fires without plugging into a hydrant.
I'm wondering if the certification timing could drive Downey to 197. He can't cert until rostered, which won't be until at least after Dec finals. Guys always weigh more at cert, often a full class or more, at least partly due to hydration. And there's a 1.5% max weight loss per week.
Other factors: must be at postseason weight by 2/15. And matches wrestled at other weights do not count toward seeding.
Conceivably, Downey could be unseeded at B10s and/or nationals due to insufficient matches at 184. This risk does not exist if he goes 197.
Wrestlers generally don't like the hydration test because it turns them into water balloons. They could put out fires without plugging into a hydrant.
I'm wondering if the certification timing could drive Downey to 197. He can't cert until rostered, which won't be until at least after Dec finals. Guys always weigh more at cert, often a full class or more, at least partly due to hydration. And there's a 1.5% max weight loss per week.
Other factors: must be at postseason weight by 2/15. And matches wrestled at other weights do not count toward seeding.
Conceivably, Downey could be unseeded at B10s and/or nationals due to insufficient matches at 184. This risk does not exist if he goes 197.
That was abandoned this year. There is no longer a date, prior to your conference tournament, that one needs to be at their NCAA weight. In theory, a wrestler could finish his descent plan to his lowest weight class on March 2nd, and wrestle in a conference tournament on March 3rd.
Also, the NCAA Committee may use results outside one's weight class for seeding, normally don't as it's a trap...and tough for comparison's sake. More importantly, Coaches Ranking, RPI, and Win % aren't calculated, so it prevents the conference from earning 1 automatic qualifier slot.
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Thanks for the update.
I doubt it would have any impact on Downey qualifying for nationals. He'd likely steal someone else's auto spot. Also seriously doubt he or Brands care about the conference losing an auto spot.
Being unseeded might be different. Downey won't care, but Brands might care about making a likely AA unseeded due to weight choice.
But that was for weigh ins, after working out, I assume. A lower body injury could hamper movement, which could limit aerobic workouts, which I assume helps making weight. I never had to make weight, but my son's ran a lot to do it. I assume a lower body injury makes running hard.
I weigh 182 and could probably certify for 149
Three options, though calipers is still used most often...
1) skinfold measurement with calipers approved by medical personnel
2) underwater weighing with a direct measure of residual volume
3) bod pod analysis
Agreed. My point was that if he recently weighed in basically at NCAA competition weight he is probably at a weight where he could certify and then get back down to weight in order to compete without worrying about certifying again. He can just operate within the OPC (Optimal Performance Calculator). When you certify the weight and body fat are entered into the OPC. It then draws a minimum permissible body weight day by day for the remainder of the season. The minimum competition weight is drawn until you reach 5% body fat according the the OPC. Each time you weigh in for competition that weight is entered into the OPC and the weight loss plan is re-drawn. So if NaTo certifies now but at a weight/body fat that allows competition at 125 then that weight loss plan will be frozen in the system until the next time he weighs in for competition even if it's in 3 months.
I weigh 182 and could probably certify for 149
i just did the math on my 196 lb self (assuming my scale measures body fat percentage well) and i'd be a hair too heavy to wrestle jason nolf. guess i need to get back into diet mode.
I weigh 182 and could probably certify for 149
#notevencalculatingmine
Thanks to both of you for taking the time to fill me in. Things have changed a lot for the better. I have gotten the impression that some schools like Okst still "cut a lot of weight". This must be within the window You both described which makes it less onerous than the cuts we were doing in the eighties. Still PSU's results speak for themselves as far as this issue is concerned they really do demonstrate that you can win at the weight you feel best at.
Signed, everyone who doesn't have to wrestle Zain.I weigh 182 and could probably certify for 149
There is ALWAYS some sneaky crap with Ryan....I would never want my son wrestling for him....Just the opposite type of man and value system of Cael ! Thank God we have him....
Considering you once said your son wasn't very good, this seems like a very low risk.
Our fan base takes great exception with the HR making things up about cael. to do so about ryan just invites more of this.
take the ladies offer, get your debt paid off and leave.
I've taken some shots at Ryan for some things, but I'd send my kid to wrestle for him in a second (if Cael didn't want first dibs).
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