New Restrictions on Bars & Restaurants in PA

[BringBackStoneys]

Well, first of all a complete lockdown is not possible, so there is always the chance of spreading it. So let’s say everyone does the social distancing, masks, and stay at home for the next couple of months. That doesn’t mean the virus is going to go away. So then they start to open up and the cases start to increase again....do we then shut down everything again? As things open up the cases will increase no matter what. I’m not sure what the doomsayers think should be done.

if people wore masks and took this seriously the first time around, we would look like the rest of the civilized world today - under control with a testing and contact tracing strategy that prevents spiking. Instead we rushed to re-open (most states ignored the CDCs phased reopen guidelines at the president’s urging) allowed mask-wearing to become political issue and gave up on contact tracing.

you reap what you sow.

 

[MtNittany]

if people wore masks and took this seriously the first time around, we would look like the rest of the civilized world today - under control with a testing and contact tracing strategy that prevents spiking. Instead we rushed to re-open (most states ignored the CDCs phased reopen guidelines at the president’s urging) allowed mask-wearing to become political issue and gave up on contact tracing.

you reap what you sow.

Dr. Fauci (and cnn) told us all early on that masks were useless. Remember that?

 

[MtNittany]

From my local nbc affiliate (WPB):

Florida Department of Health confirms missing negative coronavirus test results in state's infection rate
Some labs not reporting negative test result data

The Florida Department of Health confirms it is missing negative test results from labs across the state needed to give more accurate positive COVID-19 infection rates.

By: Meghan McRoberts
Posted at 7:01 PM, Jul 15, 2020
and last updated 7:01 PM, Jul 15, 2020
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — The Florida Department of Health confirms it is missing negative test results from small, private labs across the state.

That data is needed to give the most accurate depiction of the positive COVID-19 infection rates in Florida.

In a statement to WPTV, the Florida Department of Health said the following:

All COVID-19 cases are confirmed through diagnostic and antigen testing and then reported to the state by the labs performing the testing. Private and public laboratories are required to report positive and negative test results to the state immediately.

In recent days, the Florida Department of Health noticed that some smaller, private labs weren't reporting negative test result data to the state. The Department immediately began working with those labs to ensure that all results were being reported in order to provide comprehensive and transparent data.

As the state continues to receive results from various labs, the Department will continue educating these labs on proper protocol for reporting COVID-19 test results.
In recent state reports, showing the COVID-19 testing results by laboratory in Florida, more than 1,100 labs have reported test results to the state through July 13.

Of those labs, more than 460 reported 100 percent positivity rates.

Dozens of labs reported just one positive case and zero negatives, potentially indicating minimal involvement in testing.

But larger labs are also reporting hundreds of positive cases with no negatives, which is surprising to local doctors and a local lawmaker.

• Orlando Health reported 512 positive cases and 10 negative cases for a 98 percent infection rate
• LAB24 Inc, with a location in Boca Raton, reported 464 positive test results and zero negative cases for a 100 percent positive infection rate.
• The VA Medical Center in West Palm Beach Lab reported 115 positive test results and zero negative results for a 100 percent positive infection rate.
• Florida Community Health Centers Inc. reported 67 positive cases and zero negative cases for a 100 percent positive rate.

Florida Community Health Centers responded Wednesday to WPTV, saying they are not sure why the numbers do not appear accurately depicted in the data, but FCHC said their positivity rate is around 26 percent. They also send other tests to be processed by other labs.

State Rep. Toby Overdorf said he is following the concerns, knowing a lot of big decisions are made based on the infection rate data.

"We need to make sure our local officials are getting the accurate data, rather than data that is inflated because we don’t have enough manpower," Overdorf said. "It takes away from that feeling that this is a situation we can trust and that we can really look at what’s happening here."

A Treasure Coast doctor, Dr. Mike Adelberg, with Treasure Coast Medical Associates, Inc., also feels the infection rates being portrayed are not completely accurate.

“It’s been made clear to us by the department of health that they are incapable of handling anywhere near the amount of data they’ve been receiving,” Adelberg said.

He said it impacts his patients.

"They’re just terrified and confused. They’re getting so many mixed messages," Adelberg said.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

There are an incredible number of science deniers and political conspiracy nuts. Add to that those who are just plain dumb shits and you have the mess we are in. We have raised a couple of generations of "children" that weren't subjected to the kind of discipline and structure that some of us had when we were younger. Their parents defended them and dismissed their actions without correction and now they are adults raising their children with the same permissiveness.
They have little regard for anyone but themselves and dismiss their inability to sacrifice for the good of others as their "constitutional rights."
They rail at the smallest inconvenience and blame everyone and every thing rather than come to grips with reality.

While I totally agree with you....I find it interesting that you are calling out others for being conspiracy nuts.

 

[MtNittany]

More from Orlando:

As it turned out, some of these discrepancies were pretty extreme: Orlando Health, one of the organizations contacted by Fox, confirmed that it's positivity rate was actually 9.8%, not the 98% that had been reported to the state.

The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

The Orlando VA confirmed a similar discrepancy.

The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76%. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

 

[AWS1022]

if people wore masks and took this seriously the first time around, we would look like the rest of the civilized world today - under control with a testing and contact tracing strategy that prevents spiking. Instead we rushed to re-open (most states ignored the CDCs phased reopen guidelines at the president’s urging) allowed mask-wearing to become political issue and gave up on contact tracing.

you reap what you sow.

You don’t know that, but nice assumption. Even the states that didn’t push to open have cases on the rise.

 

[AWS1022]

More from Orlando:

As it turned out, some of these discrepancies were pretty extreme: Orlando Health, one of the organizations contacted by Fox, confirmed that it's positivity rate was actually 9.8%, not the 98% that had been reported to the state.

The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

The Orlando VA confirmed a similar discrepancy.

The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76%. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

Florida has a difficult time counting things.

 

[wilbury]

So when are the state stores closing?

They aren't closing because we aren't really serious about making changes. The Governor is only concerned about optics and this makes it appear like he's taking action. Have I missed the evidence that bars and restaurants are the reason for increases?

His statements regarding the need for statewide changes not just geographically targeted ones are laughable again aimed at not upsetting his base in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.

 

[MtNittany]

Florida has a difficult time counting things.

It's a great indication of how mail in voting would work.

 

[AWS1022]

It's a great indication of how mail in voting would work.

Do mail in votes have hanging chads?

 

[Madsol]

More from Orlando:

As it turned out, some of these discrepancies were pretty extreme: Orlando Health, one of the organizations contacted by Fox, confirmed that it's positivity rate was actually 9.8%, not the 98% that had been reported to the state.

The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

The Orlando VA confirmed a similar discrepancy.

The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76%. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

These discrepancies are so bad that we're left with incompetence as a BEST case scenario. How comforting to know that states all over are making life-impacting decisions based on this data gathered by "experts." I guess maybe I am a conspiracy nut.

 

[Nitt1300]

Dr. Fauci (and cnn) told us all early on that masks were useless. Remember that?

welcome to February

 

[psu_et_vt]

Dr. Fauci (and cnn) told us all early on that masks were useless. Remember that?

No. They were worried about masks being available to health care workers. But you can spin it any way you want (and you will).
Back then the question was what kind of mask is needed for personal protection.
As has been repeated many times, the masks were considered for personal protection at first. Only the N95 or similar are considered suitable for that.
However for limiting the spread, from you to others, any cloth mask is great. The best studies show that it greatly limits the spread, by 60% or more. This is where we are today.
Maybe if you actually paid attention for the last 6 months you would have seen this evolution.

 

[marshall23]

While I totally agree with you....I find it interesting that you are calling out others for being conspiracy nuts.

Sorry, I don't follow your thinking? I'm not a believer in a conspiracy surrounding COVID-19. I think its a legitimate threat that was dismissed or underestimated by leaders and most experts world wide. Once reality set in, it was too late to minimize the damage. I think that medical experts have admitted that they know very little about the virus. I think we need to buy time as medicine learns better methods and approaches to treating those with active infections. In the meantime, I will wear a mask, sometimes gloves, sanitize my hands frequently and not frequent any establishment of any kind where these protocols are not being followed. Those who post here that there is no threat to certain age groups etc. are entitled to their opinions.
I find it difficult to understand how so many in the sports world, where big money is at stake, could be so wrong. I mean, we are waiting for MLB....its 7/16! The Ivy's have cancelled, PSAC, and the Big Ten is wavering.....If there are no threats to healthy people, some big $$$$ are being duped.

 

[MtNittany]

You all keep on being you. FL is just fine. I'm done on this thread. I have provided the proof of fraud. You just don't want to believe it.

 

[Nitt1300]

I wear my mask when required but to think that if we all did this would go away is stupid.

The head of the CDC says otherwise- he says we can still get this under control, at least. I'm going with him knowing more than you.

 

[TheBigUglies]

Walmart, target, Lowe’s, and grocery stores more dangerous than restaurants given behavior I have seen in them with people not only not wearing masks but also crawling up your ass while you shop.

I understand not allowing people to gather at the bar, the restaurant drop from 50% to 25% BS IMO.

People crawling up my ass in Lowes and Home Depot that don't have masks on make me almost lose my shit all over them. Do you know how many instruments of destruction can be easily picked up and used on this maskholes!!!!!???? A great man once said to me, you know the difference between me and a homicidal maniac?.....self-control. Needless to say, when I encounter these jack wads in stores I just leave and don't come back to that store. If it is something I can't find anywhere else, I go early in the morning or just before closing time when they are less people in the store. I never liked people before all this anyway so I am happier not being around people.

 

[jrd23psu]

Dr. Fauci (and cnn) told us all early on that masks were useless. Remember that?

No he didn't. This is simply false. The concern was that medical professional and front line workers would not have enough masks if everybody used the same ones they use. So he advised against doing that. Shorty after advising that they said cloth masks were what the public should be using instead of the N95 and other masks the medical community needs.

Advising the public to not use the masks needed by the medical community doesn't equate to them saying masks don't work. Fauci was worried the medical community and front line workers would not have enough.

The rest of the world does not have the issues we currently have. They did all of the things people in our country refuse to do. They didn't throw temper tantrums about "freedom" and other bullshit. They did their civic duty, respected their fellow citizens, work their masks, social distanced, stayed home, and didn't gather in large crowds. They still do today. And they are far better off. The only idiots still dealing with this at this level is us, because we are spoiled children as a country.

 

[psu_et_vt]

You all keep on being you. FL is just fine. I'm done on this thread. I have provided the proof of fraud. You just don't want to believe it.

What you provided was data from 2 unvetted, unreliable sources and followed your tin foil hat.

 

[mrmk5110]

It is really painful to read some of the people in this thread that will ignore what all the experts are saying, come hell or high water, all because of all the conspiracy garbage that they believe in/their politicians have conned them into believing.

Amazing how pretty much every other civilized country (exceptions include Brazil) actually have been following what the experts are saying and these countries pretty much all have it under control, but in America its all a conspiracy in an election year and lets completely ignore all the evidence to own the libs and experts who want to tank the economy.

Let's not take into consideration that if/when the economy tanks, then that means less funding for science and less money that people have for healthcare...which probably wont have a positive impact on the very experts that have been making these recommendations in the first place.

Sigh

 

[joeparules]

More from Orlando:

As it turned out, some of these discrepancies were pretty extreme: Orlando Health, one of the organizations contacted by Fox, confirmed that it's positivity rate was actually 9.8%, not the 98% that had been reported to the state.

The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

The Orlando VA confirmed a similar discrepancy.

The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76%. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

The difference in reporting 98% versus 9.4% is not due to “errors” unless the facility is lead by eight year olds. And even then I wouldn’t expect them to be off by almost 90%. Like everything in life I’m sure it is about the almighty dollar. My guess is they are given more for positive cases!?

 

[TheBigUglies]

It is really painful to read some of the people in this thread that will ignore what all the experts are saying, come hell or high water, all because of all the conspiracy garbage that they believe in/their politicians have conned them into believing.

Amazing how pretty much every other civilized country (exceptions include Brazil) actually have been following what the experts are saying and these countries pretty much all have it under control, but in America its all a conspiracy in an election year and lets completely ignore all the evidence to own the libs and experts who want to tank the economy.

Let's not take into consideration that if/when the economy tanks, then that means less funding for science and less money that people have for healthcare...which probably wont have a positive impact on the very experts that have been making these recommendations in the first place.

Sigh

Not to get political or anything. However, from what we went thru during the Sandusky scandal(just one example) and all the false/sensationilzed news, how can one believe anything in the news anymore? I have a hard time figuring out what is real and what is sensationalized by news and social media. Social media is going to doom society in general because people don't think before they post shit and we have seen how damaging it can be whether true or not.

 

[mrmk5110]

If you need to shut down Alleghany County because they had a spike in cases, go ahead and do it. There isn't any point in destroying the state's economy if a few counties have a spike in cases

If people would just follow the recommendations that experts put out, wear masks and social distance, then maybe counties like Allegheny County won't have to do some of the things that they are doing.

People don't want to take the easy precautions needed to protect themselves and others, and then complain when officials have to make decisions like this. I don't get it. The economy doesn't have to get wrecked, but if people want to be irresponsible then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[Madsol]

What you provided was data from 2 unvetted, unreliable sources and followed your tin foil hat.

Do you have any data from what you consider vetted and reliable sources that counters the information provided by MtNittany?

 

[Sullivan]

If people would just follow the recommendations that experts put out, wear masks and social distance, then maybe counties like Allegheny County won't have to do some of the things that they are doing.

People don't want to take the easy precautions needed to protect themselves and others, and then complain when county officials have to make decisions like this. I don't get it. The economy doesn't have to get wrecked, but if people want to be irresponsible then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

But the problem isn't what Allegheny County is being forced to do. The issue is that every county is being forced to shut down their economy because a few counties have had a spike in cases.

It's counter-productive to shut down the state's economy for months, rather than shutting down hot spots for a few weeks.

 

[Madsol]

If people would just follow the recommendations that experts put out, wear masks and social distance, then maybe counties like Allegheny County won't have to do some of the things that they are doing.

People don't want to take the easy precautions needed to protect themselves and others, and then complain when county officials have to make decisions like this. I don't get it. The economy doesn't have to get wrecked, but if people want to be irresponsible then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

But wait. It's not county officials. It's a statewide mandate. That's his point. If the people of Blair County or Bucks County or Erie County have been consistently wearing masks and practicing social distancing and have low numbers, why should they be penalized because people in Allegheny County and Dauphin County and Greene County didn't and their numbers have spiked? I think I probably agree with you on the underlying issue. But I don't understand the statewide approach to this.

 

[mrmk5110]

But the problem isn't what Allegheny County is being forced to do. The issue is that every county is being forced to shut down their economy because a few counties have had a spike in cases

Because what would happen otherwise is the people in those counties would simply (not in all cases, but lots of young people I would imagine would do this) go to counties that aren't shut down, and thus spread the virus around even more which actually makes it even worse. Imposing the same restrictions in ever county will make people less likely to spread this.

 

[Lionguy32]

Well, first of all a complete lockdown is not possible, so there is always the chance of spreading it. So let’s say everyone does the social distancing, masks, and stay at home for the next couple of months. That doesn’t mean the virus is going to go away. So then they start to open up and the cases start to increase again....do we then shut down everything again? As things open up the cases will increase no matter what. I’m not sure what the doomsayers think should be done.

The idea is to manage hospitalizations. As long at those numbers are in check, more businesses will be allowed to open up. Once those numbers start ramping up again, more restrictions will be put in place. This is going to be cyclical until a vaccine is developed.

 

[mrmk5110]

But wait. It's not county officials. It's a statewide mandate. That's his point. If the people of Blair County or Bucks County or Erie County have been consistently wearing masks and practicing social distancing and have low numbers, why should they be penalized because people in Allegheny County and Dauphin County and Greene County didn't and their numbers have spiked? I think I probably agree with you on the underlying issue. But I don't understand the statewide approach to this.

Agreed on the statewide mandate and I didn't word what I said above well, but as I responded in the above post, this is more a preventative measure. It's to discourage people in the counties that are getting hit hard to go to the counties that aren't getting it as bad and potentially spread it around more. Doing it county-by-county simply isn't effective for this reason, and actually promotes spreading the virus around more.

 

[psu_et_vt]

Do you have any data from what you consider vetted and reliable sources that counters the information provided by MtNittany?

I do know that hospitalizations are up and hospitals in the more populous areas are having a very hard time coping.
Only an idiot would believe the 100% positive rates reported in the table posted here. And of course I can't speculate on their motives for posting that rate. We also know that the Florida department of health (the governor actually) fired their chief statistician back in March (or was it April?) when she refused to suppress the data the way DeSantis wanted her to. So there's that.

 

[Madsol]

Agreed on the statewide mandate and I didn't word what I said above well, but as I responded in the above post, this is more a preventative measure. It's to discourage people in the counties that are getting hit hard to go to the counties that aren't getting it as bad and potentially spread it around more. Doing it county-by-county simply isn't effective for this reason, and actually promotes spreading the virus around more.

Maybe. Or maybe the business owners in the counties that haven't been hit hard will be vigilant in enforcing the mask and social distance requirements in their establishments if the other option is being shut down. I think they should at least have been given a chance to try.

 

[psu_et_vt]

I do know that hospitalizations are up and hospitals in the more populous areas are having a very hard time coping.
Only an idiot would believe the 100% positive rates reported in the table posted here. And of course I can't speculate on their motives for posting that rate. We also know that the Florida department of health (the governor actually) fired their chief statistician back in March (or was it April?) when she refused to suppress the data the way DeSantis wanted her to. So there's that.

Here's her link:
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/7572b118dc3c48d885d1c643c195314e/

 

[Madsol]

I do know that hospitalizations are up and hospitals in the more populous areas are having a very hard time coping.
Only an idiot would believe the 100% positive rates reported in the table posted here. And of course I can't speculate on their motives for posting that rate. We also know that the Florida department of health (the governor actually) fired their chief statistician back in March (or was it April?) when she refused to suppress the data the way DeSantis wanted her to. So there's that.

No, I'm saying that MtNittany posted several news reports showing that some labs had misreported their positive rate by nearly 90%. You said those reports relied on unvetted and unreliable sources. So I was looking to see if you had specific data to challenge what was referenced in the news reports.

 

[psu_et_vt]

No, I'm saying that MtNittany posted several news reports showing that some labs had misreported their positive rate by nearly 90%. You said those reports relied on unvetted and unreliable sources. So I was looking to see if you had specific data to challenge what was referenced in the news reports.

1) What his sources claimed was that the positivity rate was misreported. It did NOT say that the actual positive numbers statewide had been misreported.

2) What his 2nd source did was claim to have the correct positive test rate. However, it did not give a corrected number of positive cases.

3) What should be less controversial is that if the number of hospitalizations are going up, the rate if infection must be going up.

 

[psu_et_vt]

No, I'm saying that MtNittany posted several news reports showing that some labs had misreported their positive rate by nearly 90%. You said those reports relied on unvetted and unreliable sources. So I was looking to see if you had specific data to challenge what was referenced in the news reports.

And this article tries to explain what happened. So, the number of positive tests is actually not affected by this reporting error. And again, this is what happens when you fire your chief statistician for political purposes (or change the way you report data nationwide for political purposes) in the middle of a pandemic.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...flaws-in-florida-department-of-health-report/

 

[nits74]

They're the ones with 10x40s with junk cars in the yard filled with beer cans.

Those are the ones that still think this is a hoax.

 

[psu_et_vt]

And this article tries to explain what happened. So, the number of positive tests is actually not affected by this reporting error. And again, this is what happens when you fire your chief statistician for political purposes (or change the way you report data nationwide for political purposes) in the middle of a pandemic.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...flaws-in-florida-department-of-health-report/

And in case you haven't been paying attention:
The important number is the total number of positives per capita, not the rate any labs are reporting. Nobody is basing restrictions on the lab testing rates.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Maybe. Or maybe the business owners in the counties that haven't been hit hard will be vigilant in enforcing the mask and social distance requirements in their establishments if the other option is being shut down. I think they should at least have been given a chance to try.

This is how it spreads to an area that previously was relatively untouched. Tourists and stupidity.

https://www.wwnytv.com/2020/07/15/c...ily-close-after-uptick-covid-cases-community/

 

[Madsol]

And this article tries to explain what happened. So, the number of positive tests is actually not affected by this reporting error. And again, this is what happens when you fire your chief statistician for political purposes (or change the way you report data nationwide for political purposes) in the middle of a pandemic.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...flaws-in-florida-department-of-health-report/

I really don't know what you're trying to say. The number of positive tests isn't effected but the rate sure is. 98% positive rate versus 9.4% positive rate. That's a significant error, no?

And what is so hard about reporting the numbers that some bureaucrat being fired has such an impact on the validity of the report?

"Here's our report from ABC Lab for July 10: we tested 1,000 people. 100 positive. 900 negative. Positive rate of 10%. Thank you."

 

[AWS1022]

So let me make sure I have this straight...the people want to open up and save the economy are doing it strictly for political reasons....the people who want to close everything up at the first sign of trouble are not doing it for political reasons? Is that correct? I just want to be sure.