New Restrictions on Bars & Restaurants in PA

[BobPSU92]

There are an incredible number of science deniers and political conspiracy nuts. Add to that those who are just plain dumb shits and you have the mess we are in. We have raised a couple of generations of "children" that weren't subjected to the kind of discipline and structure that some of us had when we were younger. Their parents defended them and dismissed their actions without correction and now they are adults raising their children with the same permissiveness.
They have little regard for anyone but themselves and dismiss their inability to sacrifice for the good of others as their "constitutional rights."
They rail at the smallest inconvenience and blame everyone and every thing rather than come to grips with reality.

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Cletus11]

So let me make sure I have this straight...the people want to open up and save the economy are doing it strictly for political reasons....the people who want to close everything up at the first sign of trouble are not doing it for political reasons? Is that correct? I just want to be sure.

exactly. what the shut every down crowd does not understand is they sound as stupid as the open everything up, this is nothing crowd.

 

[Langmuir]

If closing down bars and placing restrictions on restaurants wrecks our economy, how fragile is our economy? I never thought that bars were the backbone of our economy. Of course it will cause pain for some. If PA as a state cannot handle the closing of bars and nightclubs, then I think the state has much deeper problems.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

exactly. what the shut every down crowd does not understand is they sound as stupid as the open everything up, this is nothing crowd.

There is no “shut everything down” crowd. There is a crowd that understands that a confident, healthy public underpins a strong economy. That same group also understands that a short term halt on certain types of commercial interactions, combined with mask wearing, social distancing, and contact tracing, will limit the spread and allow us to recover more quickly than denying it or ignoring it. The rest of the civilized world already proved this.

There is no equivalency to the hoax crowd.

 

[bwifan]

If closing down bars and placing restrictions on restaurants wrecks our economy, how fragile is our economy? I never thought that bars were the backbone of our economy. Of course it will cause pain for some. If PA as a state cannot handle the closing of bars and nightclubs, then I think the state has much deeper problems.

Don't like using this term but in the interests of keeping it short think of trickle down economics... not just the restaurants and bars... it's all their suppliers and all the staff that spends their income on food/cars/clothes/homes/etc etc etc... it squeezes many

 

[psualt]

Hospitalization in PA by date:
5/31/2020 - 1307
6/15/2020 - 791
6/30/2020 - 622
7/14/2020 - 667

Not exactly alarming numbers.

 

[BobPSU92]

Florida has a difficult time counting things.

HANGING. CHADS.

 

[AWS1022]

There is no “shut everything down” crowd. There is a crowd that understands that a confident, healthy public underpins a strong economy. That same group also understands that a short term halt on certain types of commercial interactions, combined with mask wearing, social distancing, and contact tracing, will limit the spread and allow us to recover more quickly than denying it or ignoring it. The rest of the civilized world already proved this.

There is no equivalency to the hoax crowd.

The “hoax” crowd at this point is basically nonexistent. There is also no open everything up with no restrictions crowd either. And the short term halt you mention has already gone beyond short term....and you also mention certain businesses...part of the argument is which businesses? Some states have a lot more than others and if you don’t think that’s political I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

 

[PearlSUJam]

HANGING. CHADS.

 

[BobPSU92]

Hospitalization in PA by date:
5/31/2020 - 1307
6/15/2020 - 791
6/30/2020 - 622
7/14/2020 - 667

Not exactly alarming numbers.

We’re screwed.

 

[interrobang]

Hospitalization in PA by date:
5/31/2020 - 1307
6/15/2020 - 791
6/30/2020 - 622
7/14/2020 - 667

Not exactly alarming numbers.

One covid hospitalization is too much!

 

[dbsteel]

The PA leaders cited Florida (as many do here) as the reason for panic. Meanwhile on July 11th, these labs in FL reported 3,500 positive results and ZERO negatives. If you all think that's on the up and up, I'm frankly at a loss.

None of its on the up and up.

 

[dbsteel]

But the problem isn't what Allegheny County is being forced to do. The issue is that every county is being forced to shut down their economy because a few counties have had a spike in cases.

It's counter-productive to shut down the state's economy for months, rather than shutting down hot spots for a few weeks.

The virus isn't a hoax, but the fact is, Allegheny County isn't getting overwhelmed with anything.

 

[psu_et_vt]

I really don't know what you're trying to say. The number of positive tests isn't effected but the rate sure is. 98% positive rate versus 9.4% positive rate. That's a significant error, no?

And what is so hard about reporting the numbers that some bureaucrat being fired has such an impact on the validity of the report?

"Here's our report from ABC Lab for July 10: we tested 1,000 people. 100 positive. 900 negative. Positive rate of 10%. Thank you."

The errors in reporting didn’t affect anything.
All decisions to increase or ease restrictions are (if you follow the CDC guidance) based on number of positive tests, not the rate a lab reported positive. So this “fraud” is just a diversion. The number of positive cases and hospitalizations a both trending up drastically in Florida

 

[interrobang]

All the more reason to ignore CDC guidance if test rates aren't important.

 

[Madsol]

The errors in reporting didn’t affect anything.
All decisions to increase or ease restrictions are (if you follow the CDC guidance) based on number of positive tests, not the rate a lab reported positive. So this “fraud” is just a diversion. The number of positive cases and hospitalizations a both trending up drastically in Florida

This is just patently, intellectually dishonest.

Headline 1: Positive rate for Covid tests in Florida at 98%

Headline 2: Positive rate for Covid tests in Florida at 9.4%

And you say this misreporting has no impact? Just silly. Look, I've seen enough of your posts to know where you're coming from. It's not possible to have a rational discussion with you. I'm sorry I tried. See ya.

 

[WDLion]

The important number is the number of positive cases. Seems many want to ignore that and concentrate on a much less significant issue.

 

[Madsol]

The important number is the number of positive cases. Seems many want to ignore that and concentrating on a much less significant issue.

No it's not. It's the positive RATE that is important. If the number of positives goes from 100 to 1,000 but the rate goes from 10% to 5%, how is that a bad thing?

 

[WDLion]

No it's not. It's the positive RATE that is important. If the number of positives goes from 100 to 1,000 but the rate goes from 10% to 5%, how is that a bad thing?

Didn't say a lower percentages was a bad thing. But the number of positives going from 100 to 1,000 is more troublesome than the percentage.

 

[Madsol]

Didn't say a lower percentages was a bad thing. But the number of positives going from 100 to 1,000 is more troublesome than the percentage.

Ok. You're flat out wrong. But ok.

 

[MJG-90]

No. They were worried about masks being available to health care workers. But you can spin it any way you want (and you will).
Back then the question was what kind of mask is needed for personal protection.
As has been repeated many times, the masks were considered for personal protection at first. Only the N95 or similar are considered suitable for that.
However for limiting the spread, from you to others, any cloth mask is great. The best studies show that it greatly limits the spread, by 60% or more. This is where we are today.
Maybe if you actually paid attention for the last 6 months you would have seen this evolution.

The point of wearing masks is to reduce the spread. Masks aren’t perfect but can be the difference in reducing the R0 figure below 1.0 — below this and the virus will go away. Above and it continues to spread. Not that difficult to understand yet some murikans are too stubborn or too stupid to learn.

No it's not. It's the positive RATE that is important. If the number of positives goes from 100 to 1,000 but the rate goes from 10% to 5%, how is that a bad thing?

Ok. You're flat out wrong. But ok.

Both figures are important. If 1,000 tests results in 100 positives then 20,000 tests result in 1,000 positives, it can be a good thing. But it can also be very bad. It depends who is tested and for what reason. And what demographics make up the positives.

 

[psu_et_vt]

This is just patently, intellectually dishonest.

Headline 1: Positive rate for Covid tests in Florida at 98%

Headline 2: Positive rate for Covid tests in Florida at 9.4%

And you say this misreporting has no impact? Just silly. Look, I've seen enough of your posts to know where you're coming from. It's not possible to have a rational discussion with you. I'm sorry I tried. See ya.

Are you just intentionally obtuse!!!
The number of positive reports didn’t change!
The number of negative reports doesn’t matter because only the number related to the whole population matters!!!
And that as well as deaths just set records in Fla today!!!!!

 

[Madsol]

The point of wearing masks is to reduce the spread. Masks aren’t perfect but can be the difference in reducing the R0 figure below 1.0 — below this and the virus will go away. Above and it continues to spread. Not that difficult to understand yet some murikans are too stubborn or too stupid to learn.





Both figures are important. If 1,000 tests results in 100 positives then 20,000 tests result in 1,000 positives, it can be a good thing. But it can also be very bad. It depends who is tested and for what reason. And what demographics make up the positives.

I don't think a steady or declining positive rate could ever be considered a bad thing, irrespective of the number of positive cases.

 

[Lion84]

Because what would happen otherwise is the people in those counties would simply (not in all cases, but lots of young people I would imagine would do this) go to counties that aren't shut down, and thus spread the virus around even more which actually makes it even worse. Imposing the same restrictions in ever county will make people less likely to spread this.

People are going to drive to another county to have a beer - I do

 

[MJG-90]

I don't think a steady or declining positive rate could ever be considered a bad thing, irrespective of the number of positive cases.

True. But on its own, it’s not a sign of improvement.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Damn, I thought this read as:

• New restrictions on BRAS in Restaurants in PA.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

No it's not. It's the positive RATE that is important. If the number of positives goes from 100 to 1,000 but the rate goes from 10% to 5%, how is that a bad thing?

Agree...all the medical guys are saying that to have control of this thing we need to get it at 3%. I think Fla or Ariz was at 30% the other day. That is alarming.

 

[Nitt1300]

All of these changes are hard for small businesses to follow.

NY has clear guidelines

 

[WPTLION]

I don't think a steady or declining positive rate could ever be considered a bad thing, irrespective of the number of positive cases.

Here's the problem and why this current surge isn't real. All the tests the first 2 to 3 months were people with symptoms. The CDC has said those numbers are possibly 10x greater. Some studies say 4x , others 50x. So lets just go with the 10x. On April 19th we had our most patients in Hospitals 3051. There were 32254 positives( we won't even discuss if these are multiple or not.) Mulitply that number by 10, we had 322540 cases on April 19th . Now lets go to today. In the last 30 days we've had almost 20000 cases(using 30days since everyone else is either recovered or dead according to the department of health) You could argue today we are testing anyone who thinks they may have and only hitting 5%. If we are some how getting all asymptomatic now which I'm sure we aren't. Hospitalizations are at 3.2%, where when we only tested symptoms it was 9.4%, with CDC estimate .94%. The key in all this is June 16th we had 788 people in hospitals and 169 on ventilators. Today 652 and 90. Clearly no surge at all. But hey lets end people's businesses. In Central PA the virus barely exists, and after forcing people to close for 3 months you tell them they can only operate at 25% when no one is in the hospital here for it and Covid Symptoms equate to .5% of ER visits. And its been that way here for 4 months!

 

[PAgeologist]

These discrepancies are so bad that we're left with incompetence as a BEST case scenario. How comforting to know that states all over are making life-impacting decisions based on this data gathered by "experts." I guess maybe I am a conspiracy nut.

And some folks can't figure out why some don't trust the "science". How many places got caught double counting, inflating numbers, counting completely unrelated deaths chalked up as Covid, etc.

 

[psu_et_vt]

I don't think a steady or declining positive rate could ever be considered a bad thing, irrespective of the number of positive cases.

The positive rate per test is the one that was in error.That is irrelevant if you know the positive rate per population.
Also any school kid can figure out either rate if they know the number of positive tests and the number of tests given. The state population is already known.
There’s no “fraud “ only distractions and political attempts to seed doubt in the seriousness of the situation

 

[PennStateNate]

Hospitalization in PA by date:
5/31/2020 - 1307
6/15/2020 - 791
6/30/2020 - 622
7/14/2020 - 667

Not exactly alarming numbers.

Are you serious?

 

[blion72]

Well, first of all a complete lockdown is not possible, so there is always the chance of spreading it. So let’s say everyone does the social distancing, masks, and stay at home for the next couple of months. That doesn’t mean the virus is going to go away. So then they start to open up and the cases start to increase again....do we then shut down everything again? As things open up the cases will increase no matter what. I’m not sure what the doomsayers think should be done.

does PA dept of health run a website with the data by county, or are there just colors on counties? when i looked at some of the state sites that do them, and you look at daily data it gives you a better sense of the situation. the TV in our area just shows giant cumulative curves on cases, which is useless, but creates more of a panic in the population. my brother lives in Ohio north of CBus and he talked about how things were exploding out of control. I pointed him to the Ohio site on daily data, and he said this does not look like what he sees on local TV.

 

[PearlSUJam]

does PA dept of health run a website with the data by county, or are there just colors on counties?

The site actually has a map that breaks it down to numbers in counties and even zip codes.

 

[katchthis]

If closing down bars and placing restrictions on restaurants wrecks our economy, how fragile is our economy? I never thought that bars were the backbone of our economy. Of course it will cause pain for some. If PA as a state cannot handle the closing of bars and nightclubs, then I think the state has much deeper problems.

Imagine having all our inventory that is perishable spoil. Covering fixed costs for a few months. Buying new perishables in anticipation of opening with what money you have remaining, and essentially given no notice about the change. Over 30% of restaurants in PA were supposed to fail at one time during this pandemic per the PA restaurant industry. . With this 2nd bottle neck of income, that will certainly increase.

 

[katchthis]

HANGING. CHADS.

bro you used the h word.

 

[psualt]

Are you serious?

Sorry to traumatize you Nate.

 

[LMTLION]

No he didn't. This is simply false. The concern was that medical professional and front line workers would not have enough masks if everybody used the same ones they use. So he advised against doing that. Shorty after advising that they said cloth masks were what the public should be using instead of the N95 and other masks the medical community needs.

Advising the public to not use the masks needed by the medical community doesn't equate to them saying masks don't work. Fauci was worried the medical community and front line workers would not have enough.

The rest of the world does not have the issues we currently have. They did all of the things people in our country refuse to do. They didn't throw temper tantrums about "freedom" and other bullshit. They did their civic duty, respected their fellow citizens, work their masks, social distanced, stayed home, and didn't gather in large crowds. They still do today. And they are far better off. The only idiots still dealing with this at this level is us, because we are spoiled children as a country.

I direct a healthcare facility. The initial guidance was that only staff treating sick patients wear masks but it was not meant for anybody else in the healthcare facility when not around an ill patient. We abandoned that philosophy quickly as we witnessed asymptotic spread, as did major hospital systems around the state. The guidance from cdc and who was based on lack of ppe in supply chain, not science. The federal government could have prepared for this all in january by ramping up supplies and production in the nation, and instead the powers that be chose to sit on their hands and not be leaders. PPE is still a problem today due to complete and utter incompetence at a federal level. The result of inaction was a depleted federal stockpile of ppe, with expired supplies dating back 10 years over 2 presidents and 2 parties. Everybody failed. You know why the cdc and who guidance is not yet officially ‘airborne transmission’? Because the country and world lack the proper supply of N95s. All the guidance has been based on lack, not science.

 

[psualt]

I direct a healthcare facility. The initial guidance was that only staff treating sick patients wear masks but it was not meant for anybody else in the healthcare facility when not around an ill patient. We abandoned that philosophy quickly as we witnessed asymptotic spread, as did major hospital systems around the state. The guidance from cdc and who was based on lack of ppe in supply chain, not science. The federal government could have prepared for this all in january by ramping up supplies and production in the nation, and instead the powers that be chose to sit on their hands and not be leaders. PPE is still a problem today due to complete and utter incompetence at a federal level. The result of inaction was a depleted federal stockpile of ppe, with expired supplies dating back 10 years over 2 presidents and 2 parties. Everybody failed. You know why the cdc and who guidance is not yet officially ‘airborne transmission’? Because the country and world lack the proper supply of N95s. All the guidance has been based on lack, not science.

Thank you for your post. If the CDC and WHO guidance is based on the fact that there are not enough supplies then shame on them for expecting people to do a complete 180 when they change their guidance. In my opinion that is a major issue with all of these agencies. It creates distrust.

 

[interrobang]

The CDC said no masks early on because years of studies said masks didn't work.