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I've never thought paying players was a good idea at all. They already get so much more than a full scholarship student gets. Im not familiar with Penn St. But at Auburn, the top academic scholarship is a Presidential Scholarship, which is full tuition covered. No room and board, meals- none of that. Athletes have always been compensated with free room and board, free GOURMET food, free tutoring, no utility bills, free class material, free world class healthcare, state of the art facilities to help prepare them for the next level on top of free tuition.Can employees be forced to be students also?
ETA: Or maybe you'll say, they have to be students in order to play athletics, but once they play athletics they are employees. So you can be a student or you can be a student-athlete-employee, but you can't be just a student-athlete.
I agree. Compensate them but in whatever form they want, be that as full time students are part time students or not students at all.I've never thought paying players was a good idea at all. They already get so much more than a full scholarship student gets. Im not familiar with Penn St. But at Auburn, the top academic scholarship is a Presidential Scholarship, which is full tuition covered. No room and board, meals- none of that. Athletes have always been compensated with free room and board, free GOURMET food, free tutoring, no utility bills, free class material, free world class healthcare, state of the art facilities to help prepare them for the next level on top of free tuition.
It's kind of been my position for years, that they should be given an option of getting paid, not even being a student at all, and paying all their own living expenses. If they want a degree, let them pay for it. OR, being a student athlete where the benefits of normal full scholarship apply.
These court rulings stating they are employees may leave room for this kind of option. The other thing is, will Title 9. Will universities have to offer women's programs that lose the university millions of dollars OR other men's sports that lose $$??
They should drop all ncaa sports.
Explain the part where they are not students but they play for a university.I've never thought paying players was a good idea at all. They already get so much more than a full scholarship student gets. Im not familiar with Penn St. But at Auburn, the top academic scholarship is a Presidential Scholarship, which is full tuition covered. No room and board, meals- none of that. Athletes have always been compensated with free room and board, free GOURMET food, free tutoring, no utility bills, free class material, free world class healthcare, state of the art facilities to help prepare them for the next level on top of free tuition.
It's kind of been my position for years, that they should be given an option of getting paid, not even being a student at all, and paying all their own living expenses. If they want a degree, let them pay for it. OR, being a student athlete where the benefits of normal full scholarship apply.
These court rulings stating they are employees may leave room for this kind of option. The other thing is, will Title 9. Will universities have to offer women's programs that lose the university millions of dollars OR other men's sports that lose $$??
Well, they will be classified as employees. Being a student may not be a requirement once all this is said and done with. Basically, this stuff can go in one of many directions. IMO, that could end up with universities basically having minor league football teams. Some may be compensated with $$, some may be compensated with an education.Explain the part where they are not students but they play for a university.
They can be both, right? I worked for my college while I went to schoolWell, they will be classified as employees. Being a student may not be a requirement once all this is said and done with. Basically, this stuff can go in one of many directions. IMO, that could end up with universities basically having minor league football teams. Some may be compensated with $$, some may be compensated with an education.
I haven't seen any additional details of this ruling, but I don't understand this at all from a legal standpoint. At the extreme end of FBS football and P4 basketball, I can see this sentiment and tertiary reasoning, but it seems to fall apart as you look at the breadth of college sports.
But, were you required to have that job to be a student there.They can be both, right? I worked for my college while I went to school
Yep. But my point is the players, students, can also be employeesBut, were you required to have that job to be a student there.
There are so many scenarios and directions this thing could go. But, if this spreads, and they unionize, and the universities are on the hook for paying them salaries, its gonna be a huge burden on AD budgets paying for an 85 man football roster, baseball, basketball, etc- on top of coach and staff salaries, AD employees and the AD, along with all the other normal expenditures. All I can say is if you are a season ticket holder, better grease up your bottom and prepare to get dilated. Those prices that we've paid will make inflation look like a pay raise....Yep. But my point is the players, students, can also be employees
Most obtuse post of the year. Madhatteresque.Can employees be forced to be students also?
ETA: Or maybe you'll say, they have to be students in order to play athletics, but once they play athletics they are employees. So you can be a student or you can be a student-athlete-employee, but you can't be just a student-athlete.
There are so many scenarios and directions this thing could go. But, if this spreads, and they unionize, and the universities are on the hook for paying them salaries, its gonna be a huge burden on AD budgets paying for an 85 man football roster, baseball, basketball, etc- on top of coach and staff salaries, AD employees and the AD, along with all the other normal expenditures. All I can say is if you are a season ticket holder, better grease up your bottom and prepare to get dilated. Those prices that we've paid will make inflation look like a pay raise....
Seems like they are paid very well.
And, i just cant get over the fact that without being athletically gifted and getting an athletic scholarship, a large majority of athletes would have never gained admittance to these universities because their GPA's and ACT/SAT scores were too low to get accepted. It's only because of their ability to play a sport that they were even given an opportunity to get a degree. Then they are handed out financial benefits that no other student on campus gets. Then, they want even more?Seems like they are paid very well.
Average cost before aid
$83,802
$62,658
Tuition
$21,144
Other costs (books and on-campus room & board)
Source: US Dept of Education (IPEDS) · Learn more
I wonder if the average grad makes $83,000
Cancel the sport. Let their lawyers pay them.
Still not sure what this means in the big picture. Do they fall under wage and hour laws? Salary vs. Hourly? Benefit? Holidays? It opens a whole pandora's box.
all of that. Sea change. They will no longer be considered "students" by the law. As such, they'll be covered by all kinds of employee protections and guidelines. It is also much easier for them to unionize which I think is good news because the industry has to get to an agreed upon Collective Bargaining Agreement. I don't think the current environment is healthy for players or universities right now.Still not sure what this means in the big picture. Do they fall under wage and hour laws? Salary vs. Hourly? Benefit? Holidays? It opens a whole pandora's box.
I made this comment over on my home board. If a kid has an attitude or isnt performing, he may end up having to ride the pine, and because of his contract, wont be able to transfer. Good luck getting to the league with no stats....Be interesting to see how this affects transfer rules. IIRC, the recent case of the WVU hooper being eligible to play was based on him not being an employee thus a non-compete clause could not be attached. However, if now considered an employee could non-compete clauses be included in the scholarship which would restrict transferring or put limitations on where a player could transfer and how soon they’d be eligible to compete.
Noncompete contracts are easily defeated but you need an attorney and $5 to $10k. This is especially true if you work in a "right to work" state or anything close. In addition, if you gained your industry knowledge before hiring on. I've broken three of them. the last one, I simply wrote them a letter basically telling them to F off and if they sued me I would counter sue them for damages. I never heard back.Be interesting to see how this affects transfer rules. IIRC, the recent case of the WVU hooper being eligible to play was based on him not being an employee thus a non-compete clause could not be attached. However, if now considered an employee could non-compete clauses be included in the scholarship which would restrict transferring or put limitations on where a player could transfer and how soon they’d be eligible to compete.
depends on their employment contracts. with this ruling, they'll have to have employment contracts but as of now, I am guessing, they don't exist.Can these employees be fired for not performing their job as anticipated?
depends on their employment contracts. with this ruling, they'll have to have employment contracts but as of now, I am guessing, they don't exist.
True....unless the employee has a contract beyond the standard. For example, executives can negotiate terms like golden parachutes, minimum terms, ongoing benefits, severance packages, etc. For example, if the head coach has a three year deal, you can fire him/her after one year but you'll pay the full three or jointly negotiate a severance.New Hampshire is an employment-at-will state. Either party may terminate the employment relationship at any time, with or without cause, and with or without notice.
Also, does this mean that their "job" now is to play basketball and thus do not have to go through the charade of pretending to be students?Can these employees be fired for not performing their job as anticipated?
this might simplify both NIL and portal with a standard set employment rules, contracts and possibly a CBA regulating employment.
TBD.Also, does this mean that their "job" now is to play basketball and thus do not have to go through the charade of pretending that they're students?
yep. so many things to consider. for example, if you don' t give 'ships away and just pay the kids enough to pay their college costs, is title IX toast? I am thinking of the current requirement to give equal ships out to men and women.Make them all club sports. But in the end I only see revenue sports staying, Men’s football and basketball. Women’s basketball and maybe softball to make it even. All other sports will be dropped due to the financial burden. Sad ruling that was made.
yep. how do you pay an obscure OL versus a QB? how do you pay a kid playing for Temple or Georgia? How do you sustain non-rev sports? What makes a player an employee and not just a kid playing a glorified pickup game? How many kids will lose 'ships in non-rev sports?That’s why most of these nonprofit sports are history. The universities won’t be able to pay all of these athletes (employees) and stay afloat. This ruling makes no sense. If these are club sports will they be considered employees and would the athletes be untitled to pay?? Will they be able to afford road games as club members? The only sports that can survive is the ones making money (football and basketball).
$5000 to $10,000.00. That might get you through the first stage of discovery. The reason a lot of noncompete agreements wither and die is because of the prospect of the lawyers being the real winners. But you take a large business with resources, and they will surely pound any employee with your attitude into submission to enforce the noncompete. I have seen it and it's not pretty.Noncompete contracts are easily defeated but you need an attorney and $5 to $10k. This is especially true if you work in a "right to work" state or anything close. In addition, if you gained your industry knowledge before hiring on. I've broken three of them. the last one, I simply wrote them a letter basically telling them to F off and if they sued me I would counter sue them for damages. I never heard back.
Women’s sports have been on life support since they allowed dudes to compete.Make them all club sports. But in the end I only see revenue sports staying, Men’s football and basketball. Women’s basketball and maybe softball to make it even. All other sports will be dropped due to the financial burden. Sad ruling that was made.
And then you counter sue, which scares them to death. The longer they fight, the more they lose. A well placed note from a friend on Glassdoor and LinkedIn works great too$5000 to $10,000.00. That might get you through the first stage of discovery. The reason a lot of noncompete agreements wither and die is because of the prospect of the lawyers being the real winners. But you take a large business with resources, and they will surely pound any employee with your attitude into submission to enforce the noncompete. I have seen it and it's not pretty.
Agreed this won't turn out well for the athletes. Dartmouth doesn't give out scholarships and their athletic department loses money so they can easily just shut the doors and tell them to go somewhere else.That’s why most of these nonprofit sports are history. The universities won’t be able to pay all of these athletes (employees) and stay afloat. This ruling makes no sense. If these are club sports will they be considered employees and would the athletes be untitled to pay?? Will they be able to afford road games as club members? The only sports that can survive is the ones making money (football and basketball).
Don't forget about the Fair Labor and Standards Act. It regulates when overtime pay is required and what is considered hours worked. For example, mandatory training hours must be compensated, so does this include practice time and workout hours? There are rules for when travel time must be compensated (I forget the details there).Agreed this won't turn out well for the athletes. Dartmouth doesn't give out scholarships and their athletic department loses money so they can easily just shut the doors and tell them to go somewhere else.