Is there anything you're not an expert on? Money is literally the reason people work or they'd do it for free.
Basketball Notre Dame finalizing deal to with Penn State HC Micah Shrewsberry
- Thread starter Richie O
- Start date
But we are--and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's actually a huge step in the right direction. Also, any job in this era can be used as a stepping stone to something else. Sometimes that's the professional level (see O'Brien). I mean, Lincoln Riley left OU for USC and Brian Kelly left ND for LSU.
I would have liked Shrewsberry to stay but it's now the AD's job to find someone as good or better.
But money isn’t the main reason everyone changes jobs or moves to another company. I know people who have taken a job for less money so they could move to a nicer climate. I know people who have taken a job for less money to move back to their home. I know people who quit their job without having another job because they wanted to move away from where they were living. Unlike you, I don’t speak in absolutes as if I know what everyone is thinking or why they do what they do. I’ve posted many times only Shrews knows what he’s looking for or why he made the decision he made. I’m not arrogant enough to say he did it because PSU didn’t offer him enough money or because he thought ND was a better school. I’ll leave that up to you.
I agree. I think Curley's mentality was that he didn't want the job to be seen as a stepping stone, so he hired people like Dunn and DeChellis, basically, below the level of the B1G. How does that make any sense whatsoever? Look what it got us.
Now other coaches see that they can coach here and it can lead to some good things. That's not bad. He had to succeed here to put himself in that spot.
This one is still a little tough to take, though. ND would not have cared about this guy on March 1, and on March 22 they have him at the top of their list. It is an odd dynamic.
I didn't say it was because Penn State didn't offer him enough money. I said we didn't meet all his demands. ND is a better program--history proves that.
Nice climate? Come on. I know a ton of people that moved south or the the west coast and all waited until they found a job that was worth it. The exception would be if cost of living was less. People, at least intelligent ones, almost never put themselves in a worse position financially unless there's a family emergency type situation where a parent needs cared for. Anyone else quitting a job instead of staying and moving when the situation is right is just making a poor decision unless they're independently wealthy.
Maybe ND overpaid and they’re the ones making the mistake. I love Coach Shrew and would have loved for him to stay, but he did only have one good season and that was very much in jeopardy just a few weeks ago. One more loss along the way and we likely were in the NIT and wouldn’t be having this discussion. Two more losses and we likely weren’t even in the NIT.
Maybe they did but often times you have to overpay to get the guy (or keep the guy) you want.
I think time will tell. They might be. It wasn't even a full season of being really good. It was like a four-week period. And the game where we nearly knocked off Purdue was followed five days later, by Purdue having the worst loss in NCAA tournament history. Not taking anything away from Shrewsberry, but ND is really hiring him based on sweeping Illinois, NW and Indiana plus beating Texas A&M. Take those away and this season wasn't much
Maybe ND is also at a point where they are getting a little desperate to replace Brey. MS might have benefitted from that.
So you know people that waited to find another job and I know people that didn’t. Just goes to show you there are no absolutes. Everyone is motivated by different things and money is just one of those things (just like I’ve been saying). I have never made a professional decision based solely on money and I’ve had a pretty good career. I likely could have ended up making more money, but that was never my primary motivation. Some people can’t be lured away with money and some can…why is that so hard for you to agree with?
Agreed. He had a great season by Penn State standards, but would that be a great season by ND standards? I don’t know.
It was a very good season by Penn State standards. It was not as good as the season Chambers was having in 2020 (and I am no fan of PC), and Dunn had some seasons that were better than this. I was more excited for what was ahead than this season in particular.
There is no loyalty anymore. All sports is business and $.
I may be reading too much into the AD's statement, but the tone of it sounds like he is pissed off and wants to make a big hire here.
You also make up stuff constantly--like Switzer.
Did money matter with your decisions or did you work for free?
I can agree with you when you aren't trying to claim coaches aren't looking for money in their deals or pretending this was about him going home. This reminds me of when people acted shocked when O'Brien left despite every sane person knew he'd go to the NBA as soon as he wants
Just because people that you know ALLEDGEDLY made poor decisions doesn't mean it's something you should be assuming that others do.
Not really what happened. Bruce Parkhill had success with Jerry behind him and felt Jerry was up to the task. Bruce did a lot of great things but it turned out he overestimated Jerry’s ability to lead. Bruce left at a time before the season that forced Jerry on Tim. And…for one season it kinda worked. But it turned out that Jerry was coaching Bruce’s team…and when Jerry’s fingerprints got on the team, they faltered.
A few years later Tim was ready to can Dunn, and they suddenly went on the Crispin run to the NCAA’s. Tim was largely forced to keep Dunn due to optics.
The Dechellis hire was hailed by everyone that wasn’t in the “we have to pay a big time coach to come”. Dechellis put Directional Tennessee on the map with wins in the NCAA tourney. Dechellis would never leave PSU even if successful. But he did not succeed until one magical year.
In the end, Tim did not perform as bad as some believe and then at critical moments was skewered by one year of sudden success by each coach.
You do have to find someone willing to stay. It’s a problem.
I don't think Curley was the AD when they hired Parkhill.
He was responsible for the next three clowns, though.
The issue for me isn’t that OBrien left. It’s that he left after hammering the message to players that when the going gets tough the tough stay home and fight.
The message resonated to everyone but OBrien himself.
O'Brien seemed like a bit of an insufferable personality. In his defense, he was in a super-weird position (although he took the job knowing that).
Just because their decisions were different than what you would have done, doesn’t make them poor decisions. One of the people I was talking about moved to Florida for less money because he wanted a better climate. He’s now making far more money than he would have made if he stayed where he was at and he loves where he lives. Not a poor decision by any means. And I never make stuff up, not about Switzer or anything else. You can accuse me of being wrong, but don’t accuse me of being a liar. And your use of alledgedly in all caps is again accusing me of lying, so go to hell. So you can doubt me all you want, but I guess I can’t doubt you when you say you know Ryan Switzer (allegedly).
Lol. Don’t let facts get in the way of a good argument.
Reread my post. Parkhill left just before the season started. This forced Curley to hit Jerry Dunn
Second hire DeChellis was considered good for PSU because of his ties AND his success in reaching the NCAA with East Tennesse State.
Third hire was Chambers. He took BU to the NCAA AND ….lest anyone forget….the fan base was DESPERATE to recruit Philly and stop losing great in state players. Chambers was long assistant at Villanova and had inroads. And…he succeeded in getting players.
What happened AFTER each took the reins is a different and sucky story, but the hires were not considered bad by most poeple.
Fair enough but that was just a sales pitch. Doesn't every coach sell that even when they intend to leave? If not, how would they ever get any recruit?
Yes it makes them poor decisions. You can move to a ton of places with a better climate and find a job that is comparable. Things working out later doesn't alter the decision at the time.
I know the Switzer comment is false. Either his father lied to you or you're lying with the post. You can doubt me all you want. That's your right.
I agree with everything except DeChellis. Maybe my memory is poor but I don't recall people liking that decision at any point.
Agree Lando….but seemed the manner in which he used that specific topic. Openly stating for young men to learn life lessons, etc. Just wonky to use that message and then leaving.
I read it. Totally disagree on all points.
It would have been impossible for anyone to handle Dunn's tenure more incompetently than he did.
The hiring of DeChellis was not applauded by anyone except the biggest PSU sycophants. Almost everyone thought it was a disappointing hire, and almost everyone was proven right. Also, for being such a great PSU guy, he left the program after finally accomplishing something, and went to the Patriot League. Where was the AD when that went down?
The hiring of Chambers was not the worst move at the time, and Curley was gone less than a year later, so I can't fault him as much for that one (or for how long we held on to PC).
Yeah don't get me wrong. No one has to like O'Brien or respect how he did it. I know I was likely in the minority but I knew from day 1 it was only a matter of time. Even everything in his introductory speech screamed "I'll be in the NFL if this works" but he played to the Penn State fan base with talk of family.
You may not, but enthusiasm of a near upset of 2nd seeded Wake Forest (2-3 points) has an effect on people. And it was viewed positively.
Nobody cared except die-hard PSU people who knew DeChellis's past. It wasn't like they won the game.
The rumored candidates at the time were Phil Martelli, Fran Dunpy, Tim Floyd, Jeff Lebo, Ed DeChellis, Steve Lavin. It was almost universally thought that DeChellis would be the stupidest choice out of all of those. And that ended up being true. Only Lebo would have been on the same level of bad.
He also knows he was losing our top 5 scorers (Pickett, Lundy, Wynter, Funk, and Dread) and was going to have to start over.
On one of the ND boards most are very happy, but some are less than impressed. Getting PSU to the tourney with a single win isn't quite thrilling to some Domers...
I think Shrew is a much more qualified hire than Freeman was for football- and after he takes some of our better returning players and recruits they will have a base to build upon with their NIL "Diaper Dandies."
The comparison to James Franklin is a good one. It sucks to get big timed...and Micah will say all of the right things...but in the end there isn't anything that is positive for PSU from this development except that people see we can get them to the next level. The A&M game and March run were great. Maybe too great.
Money may have been close, but the intangibles were not our friend. I also picture him putting it to a family vote...and that being a major influence too. 7 years gets his son through ND and his other kids stability that many in his profession simply do not have- all driveable from his folks who were at Mackey when we played at Purdue. I would have left too.
The new ways are hard to accept- hopefully Mr. Kraft sees what can be...and doesn't screw the pooch. My quick take on the list from Erial (most of whom I had to research to better understand):
I'd watched Colgate a few times and like Langel w/ his Jersey/Philly roots. Just not sure he is as well rounded as Micah, nor has the top program pedigree/NBA experience. Penn career may impress kids who can be admitted to Colgate...can it recruit Big Ten players?
The Drake guy seems like a total Midwest dude...didn't strike me as a Wow. Creighton is solid. He could be ok and a lifer if successful here.
FAU coach May has an upbeat coaching philisophy and personal style...Midwest roots and looks the part. Reminds me of the current USC coach from FGCU (Pat's new school). I think he will have other options. If his players joined him it could be an interesting contrast to most Big 10 styles. In my opinion it would be more of a short term gimmick than path to success.
Woj is very intriguing. Fire. Duke pedigree. Kind of washed out at Marquette. Something to prove. East Coast roots with Midwest recruiting experience. If we hadn't hired our women's coach from Marquette I might be more happy...afraid of a jinx. Reminds me of Pikiel from Rutgers. Coached and played at highest levels. Has he learned from Marquette?
The Charleston coach is also intriguing. Has a lot of experience leading programs that gave been successful and to NCAA. Weird thing at UMass where he signed a contract w a buyout clause, and then resigned 25 minutes before his press conference. Odd. Cincinnati guy who played at Xavier.
McNamara jumped out at me initually, but if he wasn't even considered for the Cuse job then I'm not sure he is a top option (yet). Would like to see him run a program.
Ditto Washington. Interesting that Saddi has a daughter who is a gymnast at Pitt.
Rhoades from VCU could be our best long term choice. PA guy/roots, Played for Pat Flannery at LVC. Dlll player of the year + championships. Winner. Probably affordable.
Not amped for Jones or Becker. The guy Becker replaced at UVM left for GW...not a Power 5 job. The Sam Cassel idea isn't bad- kind of a Penny Hardaway without any ties to PSU. I'd pass on him at this time.
My ranked order is:
1-May
2-Rhoades
3-Woj
4-Langel
5- Kelsey
6- DeVries
7- Washington/McNamara
Ok w any of top 3 but it will be a rebuild.
Lando is correct that this feels Bill O'Brien-like. Both are seemingly good men and strong coaches. They "fit" our version of ourselves and overperformed versus expectations. Two short years is not what we are used to. So be it.
Not what I was hoping for but understand.
Next up....here we go again.
You can’t possibly know the Switzer comment is false because you weren’t there when the comment was made. And please explain why moving to an area you want to live in is a poor decision? And things working out later absolutely solidifies the decision. He got everything he wanted and more and he wouldn’t have that if he hadn’t made the decision. Pretty simple actually.
there's a bit of that. Still think this guy is gonna regret the move when Purdue opens up in 1 or 2 years and he is still trying to put together a tournament season in his new job.
Only one coach has ever screwed up as badly as Painter in the NCAA tournament, and he made up for it by winning the national championship the next season. Pretty sure Purdue will have a vacancy before too long.
Once again. Curley had to hire Dunn. Parkhill made sure if it.
Then, I know for a fact Dunn was going to be fired at the end of 2001 and he went on the NCAA run and Curley was forced into extending.
Curley was faced with the same NCAA run issue with DeChellis and this time would not commit to EDC the way he was forced with Dunn. EDC left. For a “lesser” job.
Look….there are all sorts of places to point for our lack of success, but it’s easy to point at the AD on this topic. Sure….he could have shot higher but only fans seemed to have the appetite for the giant splash. So he could have done better. Sure. But the hired were most certainly not universally panned. Near upset of awake Forest put Dechellis on the map.
Regardless…..I guess we get to see Kraft can do. Hope whoever he hires exceeds expectations….and stays. Staying IS part of the hiring conversation.
He has to start over more at ND than he would if he stayed at PSU, so apparently that doesn’t worry him too much.
Do you know what's also a fact? Dunn was going to be fired at the end of the 1999-00 season and Jay Wright was going to be the replacement. But instead the AD changed his mind and decided to keep him. Why? Who knows. They went to the NIT that year. There are so many examples of how badly things were handled by that AD. It is a bottomless pit.
That is just an excuse for continued longterm neglect of our bball program. Here was an opportunity to create some stability and consistency and we shit our pants… again. Our AD utterly failed here.
totally agree. I don't even know how he can make a hire that would make up for this. The hires that could make up for this let down are few and far between.
Who says had he not made the move he wouldn't have been more successful or he wouldn't be even more successful had he waited to make the money with a better scenario? You continue, despite your claims, to speak in absolutes.
And the statement is false that you said. Not saying you lied but if you didn't then Ryan's dad did when he spoke with you.
