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- Thread starter Nittany Ned2
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Many of these families are probably already feeling inferior because their kids are going to public universities.
Another sterling example of how government involvement in anything is a formula for disaster. Kids might want to consider the Apex School of Plumbing before taking a $200,000 dollar degree in liberal arts.
We don't have to worry about Penn State being affected by this since the school doesn't give financial aid to anyone. 
The article was published by ProPublica Illinois, which I had never heard of. From the top of the article:
"ProPublica Illinois is an independent, nonprofit newsroom that produces investigative journalism with moral force."
Investigative journalism with MORAL. FORCE. ? Really? How high and mighty of them.
The article was published by ProPublica Illinois, which I had never heard of. From the top of the article:
"ProPublica Illinois is an independent, nonprofit newsroom that produces investigative journalism with moral force."
Investigative journalism with MORAL. FORCE.
? Really? How high and mighty of them. 
Yeah...as an older parent with a kid in high school, I may well sell and move to wherever she goes to college. Chicago is in play. Regardless, lots of ways to scam the system. I posted several months ago my neighbor's daughter didn't get into dental school with a 3.4 GPA and her Dad is a prominent dentist. He sees the dean at an event and the Dean said that 80% of the kids accepted were out of country kids where their parents or the country was paying full boat. So USA kids couldn't get in as it is simply a revenue play. IMHO, stay within the law and do what you need to do. Life ain't fair.
I agree with this. Not worth trying to trick the system, you will end up with a kick in the pants. Our in-laws have asked if our daughter wants to change to their address so she can go to a Delaware. They already pass her off as their own when we let them take her on day trips, so it is creepy at best.
I too think that many people are much better off going to a trade school they love and getting to work. If you cannot pay off the debt, what is the point of having a higher paying job (if you are lucky). I work in construction and practically every tradesman I know has a boat, a second property, or something along those lines that makes them happy with life.
LOL. It's the governments fault that people are scumbags?
Is it not the case that in order to qualify for in-state tuition you must have lived in that state for a period of time before being accepted? If so, this eliminates this "option" unless your child knows, when they are in 8th or 9th grade, where they want to go to school and you are very confident they will be accepted.
As someone else alluded to, the "in-state tuition" is only a factor if you are looking at public schools as privates charge everyone the same (minus any aid). I went through this two years ago when my daughter was applying to colleges and, as someone else said, it's not worth trying to get around some of the rules and restrictions. Also, Virginia is an interesting state in that they require a percentage (IIRC it is two-thirds) of all students to be Virginia residents. So if a kid is interested in applying to UVA or W&M, in addition to paying higher tuition if they are not VA residents, they have a significantly lower chance of being accepted as well. My kid was accepted to both but eventually de-committed for a better offer.....
As someone else alluded to, the "in-state tuition" is only a factor if you are looking at public schools as privates charge everyone the same (minus any aid). I went through this two years ago when my daughter was applying to colleges and, as someone else said, it's not worth trying to get around some of the rules and restrictions. Also, Virginia is an interesting state in that they require a percentage (IIRC it is two-thirds) of all students to be Virginia residents. So if a kid is interested in applying to UVA or W&M, in addition to paying higher tuition if they are not VA residents, they have a significantly lower chance of being accepted as well. My kid was accepted to both but eventually de-committed for a better offer.....
I have said this many times on the board. We are constantly turning over rocks to find welders, mechanics, millwrights, instrument men and electricians. You can't find them. Our workforce (including me) is getting older fast - opportunities for the Young Turks have never been better.
Now, you're working outside in all kinds of weather. You gotta pass a drug test. You have to study for and pass various national certifications. You are subject for mandatory callouts. You have mandatory overtime (although mandatory is very rare).
In return, top scale per the contract is around $46/hr. 401k with 5% match. Standard health and benefits plan. Pension plan unfortunately is no more. Have not had a layoff - ever.
Maybe it's just me but I think that is more appealing than slinging coffee with a six-figure gender studies degree.
It varies from state to state, school to school, and public vs private. Much of it is negotiable. In other words, if you get a big promotion or take a new job you can often appeal the "in state" vs "out of state" decision. These things are not carved in stone or linear in thought process.
I suppose you could argue that government interjection into college financing has been a good thing, but that is a tough haul.
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Fraud is when a law is broken. No laws are broken, in this case. it's like exploiting a tax loop. they make the rules, you just live by them.Some out there wouldn’t consider it fraud, but a smart business decision
We don't have to worry about Penn State being affected by this since the school doesn't give financial aid to anyone.
The article was published by ProPublica Illinois, which I had never heard of. From the top of the article:
"ProPublica Illinois is an independent, nonprofit newsroom that produces investigative journalism with moral force."
Investigative journalism with MORAL. FORCE.
ProPublica is one of the most thorough investigative journalism organizations out there. With the death of newspapers and other paid contents, outfits like ProPublica are becoming one of the only places for investigative journalism to flourish.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Sort of lost in the discussion is that these aren't families in desperate need of financial assistance - it's wealthy families who can likely afford to pay college tuition for their children looking for free money. The whole thing was broken open by a guidance counselor asking a college admissions person why a wealthy student from his school was attending an event for low income students. I mean nearly 50 families in/around Chicago have done this - disgusting.
Yes! Yes it is!
Government involvement in the student loan industry is the catalyst behind the rampant inflation in tuition costs.
You're talking physical labor. Real work. Do you think millennials are going to do physical labor?
As someone mentioned, the rules vary from school to school. My son will be graduating from Mizzou in December. It is very easy to establish residency in Missouri and get in-state tuition at Mizzou. In fact, they have a whole department to help students do it. Just follow a list of requirements the summer after your freshman year (live there over the summer, earn more than $2000, get a MO drivers license, don't leave the state for more than 2 weeks, etc.) and you get in-state tuition. Other states are much more difficult and really do require you to live there, as you suggest above.
Agreed. This isn't a light switch issue it has various shades of gray. Your point is well made: If you misrepresent your financial situation, that is fraud.
I was able to take advantage of a similar loop hole. I got divorced 4 years ago and my 2 kids in college are now getting a number of grants because we use their mom's income, which is significantly lower than mine, on the FAFSA. I'm still their Dad, but my income and assets have no bearing on their expected contribution as far as financial aid is concerned. I'd feel guilty about it, if it weren't for the fact that my divorce was quite a burden on me financially for the first few years.
The fasfa needs a complete overhaul. There are other loopholes. For example if parents are divorced only one parent has to report their income. I know a family where the parents are divorced mom is currently out of work so reports no income meanwhile dad who has 50/50 custody makes $250k+ but the kid qualifies for all kind of aid because that income is not reported.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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And here is Alaska's student-friendly government gutting their Alaska Performance Scholarships for no apparent reason (scholarship is to assist students with tuition with the idea they will stay in Alaska to work/prevent brain drain):
At the end of Alaska’s fiscal year in late June, the state “sweeps” a number of accounts that fund various state programs into its Constitutional Budget Reserve. Usually, when the new fiscal year begins in July, the state quickly reverses the sweep, and the funds return to the programs’ accounts. It’s a convoluted process that's required after Alaska voters approved a constitutional amendment in the 1990s mandating it.
The APS is funded through the Alaska Higher Education Investment Fund, which this year, Gov. Mike Dunleavy added into the sweep for the first time. But this year, a few Republican legislators blocked the three-fourths majority needed to refund the programs and the legislature failed to reverse the sweep, leaving the APS without funding. The Alaska Education Grant (AEG), which provides state-aid to low-income students was also caught up in the sweep.
A spokesperson for Dunleavy said the governor added the Alaska Higher Education Investment Fund to the sweep because it’s required by the state constitution, even though previous administrations did not include it. The blame for the APS’s defunding, the governor’s office says, lies with the legislature.
Lots of issues in student aid policy.
Busy parent who wants to take one class? No aid for you.
Want to take a class for professional development or advancement? No aid if you are a non-degree student.
Want to game the system, apply to a degree and take two classes and fail one? Sure, we'll give you money until you don't make "satisfactory academic process." Then you can drop out, be deep in debt, and have no degree.
Why bust your butt for $100k a year when a degree and a good job will get you 3 times that much? Not everyone, including liberal arts majors, winds up serving coffee. Econ majors nowadays are writing their own ticket.
I watched a bit of the govt hearing with financial institutions and one of the congresspersons asked the five largest banks about student loans. All of them got out of the biz several years ago. Each answered that they don't do student loans and made the congressperson look like an idiot.
the parents divorcing has been done forever also. I knew a kid whose parents 'got divorced', custody to the mom who had no income and he qualified for all kinds of grants. of course dad still lived in the same house and when college was over they got married again. so the divorce was literally on paper only and nothing changed.
used to be done a lot when we had aid to dependent children back in the 70s and early 80's. People would divorce and the govt would get photos of them still living together. But the single mom would get a govt check every first of the month depending on how many kids they had.
You want the government, at whichever level, to mandate adding to bloat and incompetence in universities?
As another poster suggested, simply add/change questions on financial aid forms. People will think twice about their answers when legal penalties are involved
Only because on all the anti regulation republicans. All that student loan money should have come with many strings attached.
One of the reasons. If we're limiting the discussion to colleges and universities, a larger reason is the administrations themselves.
JP Morgan Chase and BofA are out of the student lending business. Of the other five largest US banks, Goldman and Morgan Stanley never was in the business.
how about these? Citi , JPM, BAC most got out when the government took over the student loan program in 2010... somebody had her pants down...
If you want to reform higher education finance, there's a single tonic that would fix a lot of it. Repeal the change to bankruptcy laws that made all student loan debt non-dischargeable.
Limit non-dischargeability to federal direct loans. That would effectively limit most students to $7,600 worth of borrowing per year. If banks want to make private loans above that, they can still do it but all of a sudden they will care about the credit-worthiness of the student AND the degree. Future doctors and engineers will still be able to borrow a lot; future BAs in political science (my major) will not.
If you did that, overnight you would see a lot of college tuitions dropping to $15k a year instead of $30k. Community college enrollment would triple or quadruple and overpriced private and public colleges would have to get more efficient or shut their doors.
Maybe you wouldn't pay these insufferable college presidents $4 million a year and their dumbass vice presidents $1 million a year. Maybe tenured full professors making $180k would no longer get away with teaching 2 sections a year and expecting a full paycheck the rest of the year for thinking great thoughts. Maybe universities would think harder about their mission -- which should be teaching and service and research, not impressing US News and other universities.
It would be painful but well deserved. It's absolutely unconscionable what universities like Penn State have done loading their students up with ridiculous loans and sending them out in many cases into a lifetime of debt that they will never ever be able to pay off.
Those people at Shields who counsel Penn State undergrads to borrow $80k or $120k or $150k for a bachelor's degree -- that really should be a crime IMHO.
But you don't have to make it a crime. Just make it dischargeable in bankruptcy and watch the whole evil business magically disappear.
Limit non-dischargeability to federal direct loans. That would effectively limit most students to $7,600 worth of borrowing per year. If banks want to make private loans above that, they can still do it but all of a sudden they will care about the credit-worthiness of the student AND the degree. Future doctors and engineers will still be able to borrow a lot; future BAs in political science (my major) will not.
If you did that, overnight you would see a lot of college tuitions dropping to $15k a year instead of $30k. Community college enrollment would triple or quadruple and overpriced private and public colleges would have to get more efficient or shut their doors.
Maybe you wouldn't pay these insufferable college presidents $4 million a year and their dumbass vice presidents $1 million a year. Maybe tenured full professors making $180k would no longer get away with teaching 2 sections a year and expecting a full paycheck the rest of the year for thinking great thoughts. Maybe universities would think harder about their mission -- which should be teaching and service and research, not impressing US News and other universities.
It would be painful but well deserved. It's absolutely unconscionable what universities like Penn State have done loading their students up with ridiculous loans and sending them out in many cases into a lifetime of debt that they will never ever be able to pay off.
Those people at Shields who counsel Penn State undergrads to borrow $80k or $120k or $150k for a bachelor's degree -- that really should be a crime IMHO.
But you don't have to make it a crime. Just make it dischargeable in bankruptcy and watch the whole evil business magically disappear.
One thing for sure.....if the government provides a system to do something, almost anything, people will find a way to scam that system.
No. The most recent statistics I've seen are that the Federal government holds 92% of student debt, with private lenders somewhat under 8%.
Also, I think you are confusing Federal subsidized loans with Federal direct. The cap on undergraduate Federal student loans, subsidized and unsubsidized, is $57,500, or twice the amount you indicate.
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