Drexel dual - Sun, Nov 17

[billrag]

Re: Davis - they would check for structural integrity. Doesn’t mean he’d be fully functioning. He did what he had to do in the first week of the season given the circumstance

Yeah, I'm not trying to be critical and I'm glad that he won, you just hate to see a guy hanging on and maybe a bit scared to wrestle to win (versus wrestling not to lose). Although he had a remarkable freshman season and absolutely showed some "toughs" at different times of the year, he had a few matches like that last season as well. Not complaining, just pointing it out.

 

[Random4598375]

125: TrFr are allowed 5 dates attached, right? LL would be down to 4 but could theoretically still RS.

133: It’d be pretty surprising to me if McHenry would be effective at 133 since to date the thinking was he was too small for 125. But that’s all conjecture.

Yes, he would still have 4 attached dates, but if there were any plan at all to RS him, there's no way they would burn a date for a forfeit. Either send someone else out for the forfeit or just double forfeit the weight. It's not like there was a chance in hell it would cost them the dual.

 

[Random4598375]

I know that Facundo is getting savaged here, but one thing that I took from the match which is very much a positive, is that it didn't appear that Alex gassed at all and I was a bit worried about that. Could he wrestle with a bit more swagger? Sure, OK, but if they've talked Kasak into a redshirt for whatever reason, it looks like Facundo will probably be fine out there and I didn't really get the sense that he's sucked down to nothing either, I thought he looked a bit better than I would have expected regarding his weigh cut.

Yeah, again, I trust Cael, and one match in November is just one match in November. I'm just saying the early returns for Kasak are way better than for Facundo so far. There's still plenty of time to sort it out, though.

 

[jack66]

I favored Kasek taking a RS with Alex wrestling this season, but that was based on the two being close. After this weekend I'm not sure that's the case.

 

[NittanyLion84]

For those who don’t have BIG+
Carter Starocci vs Giuseppe Hoose

 

[SlipperyPete12]

Here's the entire dual, even though it says highlights.

Davis - Starts it off
Nasdeo - 13:50
Pierce - 26:00
Facundo - 37:30
Mesenbrink - 47:00
Haines - 55:00
Starocci - 1:02:00
Cochran - 1:11:00
Kerk - 1:15:45

 

[Nitlion1986]

I just watched that replay of the match and had a couple of thoughts. Davis didn't really appear to be favoring the leg by the end of his match and I'm sure that he's OK, but it was clear that his mindset changed after tweaking the knee and you hate to see that. Obviously, you have to have some sense of self-preservation and you don't want a kid getting hurt by wrestling on a bum knee, but you also have to wrestle and dominate and not think too much about it after you've been checked by a trainer and given the go ahead.

I know that Facundo is getting savaged here, but one thing that I took from the match which is very much a positive, is that it didn't appear that Alex gassed at all and I was a bit worried about that. Could he wrestle with a bit more swagger? Sure, OK, but if they've talked Kasak into a redshirt for whatever reason, it looks like Facundo will probably be fine out there and I didn't really get the sense that he's sucked down to nothing either, I thought he looked a bit better than I would have expected regarding his weigh cut.

Davis was walking with a slight limp leaving the mat after his match.
If there was any doubt about whether it was an ouch moment or an injury they would have stopped the match.
However, whatever was tweaked and to what degree it scared the snot out of Davis.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Considering how tough Facundo wrestled in the trials I was anticipating a different animal yesterday.
It may be only two data points, but they are significantly weighted data points. Kasak wrestled a highly ranked opponent and never looked in danger of not winning. Facundo wrestled a not highly ranked opponent, that Kasak most certainly would have bonused, and won a closely contested match.
That plus Kasak as a true freshman finished 3rd and Facundo a year prior and as a RS freshman was completely not ready to AA.

This weekend's data points are not in a vacuum, they are simply the most recent. If Facundo is going to be the 157 pounder this year he needs to perform much better than yesterday. Otherwise by January it will be Kasak's weight.

 

[baccafarmer]

Was the picture on stream kinda strange looking for anyone else? I had lines through some of the picture. It reminded me of old Nintendo games.

Yes - I got a bunch of pixel shimmy at the beginning. It went away as soon as I put Ironhead on the Bluetooth.

 

[FatWoodchuck]

Considering how tough Facundo wrestled in the trials I was anticipating a different animal yesterday.
It may be only two data points, but they are significantly weighted data points. Kasak wrestled a highly ranked opponent and never looked in danger of not winning. Facundo wrestled a not highly ranked opponent, that Kasak most certainly would have bonused, and won a closely contested match.
That plus Kasak as a true freshman finished 3rd and Facundo a year prior and as a RS freshman was completely not ready to AA.

This weekend's data points are not in a vacuum, they are simply the most recent. If Facundo is going to be the 157 pounder this year he needs to perform much better than yesterday. Otherwise by January it will be Kasak's weight.

Fucando and Bozakis are on the exact same level, both great talents that can't figure it out in D1 and it's a shame for both such promising recruits/talents, but it happens

 

[Kale_yeah]

Hell all kasak does is beat all Americans.

 

[McScoreley]

Kasak had a bad dual meet debut last year and only beat Drew Munch by 2 points. I wouldn't make any major judgements on Alex yet, but I think Kasak will be the guy come March because his style is more conducive to NCAA success

Tyler was a true freshman making a Rec Hall debut who was still a 141 (weighed in at 145) and found out he was wrestling because a teammate just likely suffered a season ending injury. Not apples to apples.

 

[McScoreley]

Cael said obviously an MRI will be the final answer but Dan Monthley basically never misses on his "injury on mat tests" and he deemed Braeden was okay to continue if he wanted. Basically said Braeden will be good.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Greg Kerkvliet vs Tanner Updegraff(Drexel) - 2024 Heavyweight Dual Meet, Jeff Byers Call - Full Match

 

[creamery freak]

I was at the PSWC pre-match social on Sunday and a women asked if her 91 year old mother could sit with my sister and me at our table. We said no problem and she introduced herself as Betsy Frey and said her late husband was Doug Frey, who along with his twin brother Don, were members of PSU's 1953 National Championship Team. She went on to tell us that Doug was formerly the headcoach at Drexel and Don was formerly the headcoach at Penn. Her two daughters were with her as well as a son-in-law. Very unexpected but cool interaction.

I found a link with the Frey brothers pictures that hopefully I can add here.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FK8MMILS9MD-8RglP-H_v

 

[js8793]

I also think Davis is always going to be a "win ugly" guy. The things that make him really good don't translate to high scoring.

 

[jtothemfp]

Yeah, I'm not trying to be critical and I'm glad that he won, you just hate to see a guy hanging on and maybe a bit scared to wrestle to win (versus wrestling not to lose). Although he had a remarkable freshman season and absolutely showed some "toughs" at different times of the year, he had a few matches like that last season as well. Not complaining, just pointing it out.

Cael tried to convey his & Dan Monthley's decision-making processes during such 'injuries' in the post-dual presser. A fair bit of hemming & hawing as he tried to find the right words, but in the end I think he did a decent job. Here's how he explained it:

I don’t have the answer to that. I think he’ll be fine. I think he’s, you know, if you’re able to finish the match and, he just had to kind of wrestle through that. We’ll take care of it and make sure he has the time he needs to get back to, to full speed.
If he’s not full speed soon!

But, you know, it’s early November, so I don’t think they’ve given him a full look yet, so we’ll we’ll figure it out. But, you know, Dan Monthly is a really, really good trainer, and pretty much what he says is gospel. I mean, he’s not really been off, ever, that I remember, calling a knee or a shoulder or something on the mat.

So, if he says, you know, you’re good to go. If he gives me the look, then we know at this time of the year, you’re throwing the brick in and just kind of moving on. But yeah, we’ll see. You know, I can’t really speak to it because I don’t really have the answer.
And if I had the answer, I probably won’t tell you anyways.
But yeah, I think he’ll be good.

 

[jtothemfp]

I was at the PSWC pre-match social on Sunday and a women asked if her 91 year old mother could sit with my sister and me at our table. We said no problem and she introduced herself as Betsy Fry and said her late husband was Don Fry, who along with his twin brother Doug, were members of PSU's 1953 National Championship Team. She went on to tell us that Don was formerly the headcoach at Drexel and Doug was formerly the headcoach at Penn. Her two daughters were with her as well as a son-in-law. Very unexpected but cool interaction.

I found a link with the Fry brothers pictures that hopefully I can add here.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FK8MMILS9MD-8RglP-H_v

What? Wow, this is super cool, thanks for sharing!

Also, for all yinz, yous other folk who attend any social gathering, please bring any stories like this back to share? I'll read every single story. Thanks in advance!

 

[PSU Mike]

I was at the PSWC pre-match social on Sunday and a women asked if her 91 year old mother could sit with my sister and me at our table. We said no problem and she introduced herself as Betsy Fry and said her late husband was Don Fry, who along with his twin brother Doug, were members of PSU's 1953 National Championship Team. She went on to tell us that Don was formerly the headcoach at Drexel and Doug was formerly the headcoach at Penn. Her two daughters were with her as well as a son-in-law. Very unexpected but cool interaction.

I found a link with the Fry brothers pictures that hopefully I can add here.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FK8MMILS9MD-8RglP-H_v

I’m going brain dead here, but who was our resident board member who knew everybody from that exact era?

 

[billrag]

Yeah, I heard Cael's comments and they really do nothing to change my mind. I still think that Davis was more scared than he was hurt and I find that to be a dangerous way to wrestle. And again, I don't have the answers and I'm not trying to be critical. It's got to be tough to be on the mat and to think, "oh no, not this again" when you should be focused on nothing but scoring points.

 

[nittinsc]

I’m going brain dead here, but who was our resident board member who knew everybody from that exact era?

Androcles

 

[NoVa Lion]

Not trying to be wise, but I do not think I remember Alex teching anyone.

He did have one TF A

Androcles

Yes, he was the team manager for the 1953 team. He has LOTS of great stories.

 

[goldenanimal]

I was at the PSWC pre-match social on Sunday and a women asked if her 91 year old mother could sit with my sister and me at our table. We said no problem and she introduced herself as Betsy Fry and said her late husband was Don Fry, who along with his twin brother Doug, were members of PSU's 1953 National Championship Team. She went on to tell us that Don was formerly the headcoach at Drexel and Doug was formerly the headcoach at Penn. Her two daughters were with her as well as a son-in-law. Very unexpected but cool interaction.

I found a link with the Fry brothers pictures that hopefully I can add here.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FK8MMILS9MD-8RglP-H_v

That is an awesome interaction. Thank you for sharing. The brothers led both remarkable and remarkably inseparable lives. They each graduated from the School of Physical Therapy at the University of Pennsylvania and were both highly respected Department Heads of Physical Therapy at hospitals in Philadelphia. Don was the Penn Wrestling Head Coach in the 1960s (.670 dual winning %), in addition to being the Head of Physical Therapy at Pennsylvania Hospital and the Head Athletic Trainer at Penn. Doug (Betsy’s husband) was the Drexel Wrestling Head Coach (.778 %) during the same period and served as the Head Athletic Trainer at Drexel and the Chief of Physical Medicine at Presby, positions he simultaneously held for over 30 years.

Don is a legend at Penn Wrestling. Penn’s athletic training center (hydro/cryotherapy and the like) in the bowels of Franklin Field is named after Don Frey (donated in his name by several of his wrestlers, Dave Pottruck chief among them). My family and I had the privilege of meeting both brothers on several occasions many years ago. I can remember Don fondly recalling Charlie Speidel, who served in the Navy with their father during WWII, and the 1953 PSU National Championship, the first collegiate wrestling team from the East to win a national title, a feat they miraculously accomplished at Rec Hall. Looking back, the brothers are truly responsible for setting in motion the long-standing cooperation between the Penn and Drexel Wrestling programs, a cooperation that exists to this day via the PRTC, Beat the Streets, etc. So close in life, Don and Doug each passed in late 2018, only one month apart.

 

[McScoreley]

I also think Davis is always going to be a "win ugly" guy. The things that make him really good don't translate to high scoring.

Against upper competition, sure. But he's pretty good at bonusing non NQ level guys (like the Drexel kid) and he looked on pace to do that early on before getting nicked up.

 

[jack66]

Against upper competition, sure. But he's pretty good at bonusing non NQ level guys (like the Drexel kid) and he looked on pace to do that early on before getting nicked up.

The point is well taken, but I agree more with js. His only bonus wins have come over guys ranked 60+.

I compare Davis to Max Murin ... a tough out for anyone but most wins are a slugfest.

 

[a_mshaffer]

The point is well taken, but I agree more with js. His only bonus wins have come over guys ranked 60+.

I compare Davis to Max Murin ... a tough out for anyone but most wins are a slugfest.

perhaps, but a true freshman without high expectations - last year... Let's let this season roll out.

 

[js8793]

perhaps, but a true freshman without high expectations - last year... Let's let this season roll out.

It's not a talent critique, at least not for me. It's just a style thing. I could be wrong and he may develop a bunch of great attacks, but Murin is a good style comparison imo, though Davis is a better version of that than Murin was at this stage in his career.

Tough as nails, hard to open up, finds his way to a couple takedowns a match. His tournament last year was very Max Murin-ish. Wrestled great, dropped a super tight quarter to a high finisher, then a heartbreaker in the r12.

 

[creamery freak]

That is an awesome interaction. Thank you for sharing. The brothers led both remarkable and remarkably inseparable lives. They each graduated from the School of Physical Therapy at the University of Pennsylvania and were both highly respected Department Heads of Physical Therapy at hospitals in Philadelphia. Don was the Penn Wrestling Head Coach in the 1960s (.670 dual winning %), in addition to being the Head of Physical Therapy at Pennsylvania Hospital and the Head Athletic Trainer at Penn. Doug (Betsy’s husband) was the Drexel Wrestling Head Coach (.778 %) during the same period and served as the Head Athletic Trainer at Drexel and the Chief of Physical Medicine at Presby, positions he simultaneously held for over 30 years.

Don is a legend at Penn Wrestling. Penn’s athletic training center (hydro/cryotherapy and the like) in the bowls of Franklin Field is named after Don Frey (donated in his name by some of his wrestlers, Dave Pottruck chief among them). My family and I had the privilege to meet both brothers on several occasions many years ago. I can remember Don fondly recalling Charlie Speidel, who served in the Navy with their father during WWII, and the 1953 PSU National Championship, the first collegiate wrestling team from the East to win a national title, a feat they miraculously accomplished at Rec Hall. Looking back, the brothers are truly responsible for setting in motion the long-standing cooperation between the Penn and Drexel Wrestling programs, a cooperation that exists to this day via the PRTC, Beat the Streets, etc. So close in life, Don and Doug each passed in late 2018, only one month apart.

Thanks for adding things I didn't know or that I missed during our conversation with Betsy Frey. Unbelievable that the twins passed a month apart. They certainly gave back to the sport of wrestling and blessed others! Thanks again.

 

[a_mshaffer]

It's not a talent critique, at least not for me. It's just a style thing. I could be wrong and he may develop a bunch of great attacks, but Murin is a good style comparison imo, though Davis is a better version of that than Murin was at this stage in his career.

Tough as nails, hard to open up, finds his way to a couple takedowns a match. His tournament last year was very Max Murin-ish. Wrestled great, dropped a super tight quarter to a high finisher, then a heartbreaker in the r12.

agree with your assessment and thanks for clarifying (for me). I am simply thinking going forward he will be more offensive than Max. We'll see - good comparison with the data to date

 

[NittanyLion84]

Luke Lilledahl Interview after the Drexel Dual

 

[NittanyLion84]

Shane Van Ness Interview after the Drexel Dual

 

[PSU Mike]

Luke Lilledahl Interview after the Drexel Dual

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Speaks a bit like Q.

 

[Sleepylion]

Luke Lilledahl Interview after the Drexel Dual

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I watched that 6mins thinking... why has a dodgeball not hit the window behind a freshman doing an interview?

 

[johnstownsteel]

Facundo is almost like a "Mason Manville" type situation for me and regardless if he is eventually replaced in the lineup I think he really needs to stay in State College Personally, I think he's one of the best freestylers on the team and his future should be the NLWC. It's weird that we are talking about him being replaced but I possibly see future Senior Level medals in his future.

Edit...Yes, I know Manville was a Greco-Roman guy. Lol

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Facundo is now a bit of an enigma for me. His freestyle chops did not display vs Drexel. On paper that is just the kind of match where he should have put on a takedown clinic for a tech.

Down two weight classes is no friggin joke. This weekend is the big reveal, but our confidence was shaken. If he proves to be hot/could week to week from tough cuts I won't feel any better.

I went in to the Drexel match jazzed for him, more than hopeful, and thinking a Kasak shirt is a near no brainer. I hate to be a flip flopper, but ... Lets talk Monday.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Mitchell Mesenbrink Highlights vs Cody Walsh(Drexel) - 2024 165 LBS, Jeff Byers Call, Dual Meet

 

[NittanyLion84]

Carter Starocci Highlights vs Giuseppe Hoose(Drexel) - 2024 184 LBS, Jeff Byers Call, Dual Meet

 

[NittanyLion84]

Lucas Cochran Highlights vs Ethan Wilson(Drexel) - 2024 197 LBS, Jeff Byers Call, Dual Meet

 

[PAgeologist]

Yeah, I heard Cael's comments and they really do nothing to change my mind. I still think that Davis was more scared than he was hurt and I find that to be a dangerous way to wrestle. And again, I don't have the answers and I'm not trying to be critical. It's got to be tough to be on the mat and to think, "oh no, not this again" when you should be focused on nothing but scoring points.

There is certainly a mental aspect to getting dinged like Davis did. It's always in your head to protect whatever is hurt to avoid further injury.

Is my knee going to give out if I shoot? If he shoots on me can I defend it?

 

[7brwnpsu]

This is a great interview. Now I Have to go to the Year End Banquet to see who walks out with the most hardware. (But is it by # or weight? If Shayne walks out with the Hodge, that sucker is Heavy)!

Shane Van Ness Interview after the Drexel Dual

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